Veterans Thread

(Applications Advice, Letters of Recommendation . . . )
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Ex Cearulo
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Re: Veterans Thread

Postby Ex Cearulo » Tue Jul 23, 2013 2:24 pm

Metanoia wrote:Anybody know where to find information on entry-level govt. jobs for JDs? Do we get Vet's preference points or is there a different kind of hiring process for lawyers? Also, anybody know anything about careers in aviation law? Is working for the FAA, airlines, or manufacturers possible out of law school, or do all of those types of positions require pretty extensive experience?

https://www.usajobs.gov/ is a good starting point. Most gov't jobs for attorneys that pay north of $75k/yr require at least a year or two of post-Bar exam experience. You can also go to each agency's website (i.e. http://www.justice.gov) and look there. The individual jobs listed within the USAJobs site will discuss veterans preferences. Most say something along the lines of "while there is no formal ratings system for applying veterans preference, we consider it a positive factor." You can also check out http://www.fedshirevets.gov/. Sorry, don't have any info on aviation law careers, although I'm also interested in learning about it if anyone can contribute.

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Metanoia
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Re: Veterans Thread

Postby Metanoia » Tue Jul 23, 2013 7:06 pm

Thanks Hawg

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Bfalcon
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Re: Veterans Thread

Postby Bfalcon » Wed Jul 24, 2013 1:33 am

JazzyMac wrote:It would be great if we had a "Veterans Forum" versus just a thread. There are a lot of different topics here and people can miss things going through each and every page.

I'm aware that there may not be a huge following in the new forum, but these topics are pretty interesting and deserve their own threads.


+1 very much agree on this!

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Rotor
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Re: Veterans Thread

Postby Rotor » Wed Jul 24, 2013 12:06 pm

Metanoia wrote:Anybody know where to find information on entry-level govt. jobs for JDs? Do we get Vet's preference points or is there a different kind of hiring process for lawyers? Also, anybody know anything about careers in aviation law? Is working for the FAA, airlines, or manufacturers possible out of law school, or do all of those types of positions require pretty extensive experience?

Veterans preference is a tangled web of laws and regulations, but there is a good summary here: http://www.opm.gov/policy-data-oversigh ... vet-guide/

Basically, the preference only applies to the executive branch (FAA), but there is no preference for O-4 and above (unless you qualify as a disabled veteran).

As for entry level government jobs, USA Jobs is the central listing of all federal openings. Ran a quick search for "FAA" and "Attorney" and came up with 0. More creative search strings may help you out there.

Airlines and manufacturers may be a tougher sell without serious network connections. In house tend to not take on entry-level because they tend not to have the training capacity of their outside counsel(from which they pull a lot of their talent). [This is an overly broad generalization, but useful as a rule of thumb]

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SemperLegal
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Re: Veterans Thread

Postby SemperLegal » Thu Jul 25, 2013 1:00 am

Rotor wrote:
Metanoia wrote:Anybody know where to find information on entry-level govt. jobs for JDs? Do we get Vet's preference points or is there a different kind of hiring process for lawyers? Also, anybody know anything about careers in aviation law? Is working for the FAA, airlines, or manufacturers possible out of law school, or do all of those types of positions require pretty extensive experience?

Veterans preference is a tangled web of laws and regulations, but there is a good summary here: http://www.opm.gov/policy-data-oversigh ... vet-guide/

Basically, the preference only applies to the executive branch (FAA), but there is no preference for O-4 and above (unless you qualify as a disabled veteran).

As for entry level government jobs, USA Jobs is the central listing of all federal openings. Ran a quick search for "FAA" and "Attorney" and came up with 0. More creative search strings may help you out there.

Airlines and manufacturers may be a tougher sell without serious network connections. In house tend to not take on entry-level because they tend not to have the training capacity of their outside counsel(from which they pull a lot of their talent). [This is an overly broad generalization, but useful as a rule of thumb]


I've seen quite a few attorney jobs on USAJobs (none entry level) and all of them are exempted from veterans preference.

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Metanoia
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Re: Veterans Thread

Postby Metanoia » Fri Jul 26, 2013 10:58 am

Great, thanks for the info guys. I thought this page was pretty informative as well: http://www.psjd.org/Careers_in_Federal_Government#Types_of_Practice_for_Lawyers_in_the_Federal_Government

cerberus7
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Re: Veterans Thread

Postby cerberus7 » Tue Aug 06, 2013 11:03 am

Hello all,

I would like to say thanks to everyone here for your service. I have been reading through this thread, and this is my first post.

160/3.7 (taken the LSAT three times, looks like the score is not improving anymore)
E-5, Army, MI, currently stationed in RoK
ETSing November '14 but planning to take terminal leave to get out by mid-August so that I can barely meet the fall semester time frame

My background might be a bit unorthodox; born and raised in Asia, moved to the States with my family when I was in high school while applying for permanent residency, aged out of my original status while in college, switched to "international student" status, did some manual labor after college (it was near impossible to find a job during the height of the sub-prime fiasco as an intl student), and joined the Army under a wartime recruiting program targeting valid visa holders. Normally people like myself won't be able to join but I was extremely fortunate; it took me almost a year to ship out due to the competition among other "applicants" and the two medical waivers I had to get, and that wait was nerve-wrecking as an individual with an unstable legal status.

I am planning to stay within NY after LS, and I am hoping for either Fordham or Cardozo with YRP and BAH kicking in. Columbia has always been my dream school but well my numbers are just embarrassing. I wonder if I will ever have chance for lower T-14s like Cornell or GULC but then again I am non-URM.

The general impression I get from TLS is that military experience is a very good soft but not significant enough to offset lacking LSAT score, along with the personal statement. At least I do have things to write about; I have been writing drafts focusing on my struggle to adjust to the real world after graduation, and how the course of my life as an immigrant has been shaped by the trend of U.S. foreign policy. However, I feel like I should elaborate more on the military experience to take full advantage of the "soft". Would a diversity statement about my immigrant/military background help? It looks like my PS/DS may be overlapping in terms of contents, and I don't know if that's good.

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Cobretti
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Re: Veterans Thread

Postby Cobretti » Tue Aug 06, 2013 2:01 pm

Military experience is a strong soft but it won't make you drastically out perform your numbers. Is 3.70 your exact LSAC calculated GPA? You will have an outside shot as a reverse splitter at some T20s where your GPA is above median (including Cornell and GULC). However, schools like NU and Duke may see their median GPAs dip quite a bit this year with the downturn in apps, so next cycle you may actually be above median at some other lower T14s. I would just apply everywhere where you are above median GPA (or close enough to median that it could realistically be their new target median, like if they have a 3.72 or so). Your strong softs can play a factor in helping them decide to overlook your LSAT in light of an above median GPA, but I wouldn't expect to get in anywhere where you are below both medians.

GL

cerberus7
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Re: Veterans Thread

Postby cerberus7 » Wed Aug 07, 2013 9:54 am

Cobretti wrote:Military experience is a strong soft but it won't make you drastically out perform your numbers. Is 3.70 your exact LSAC calculated GPA? You will have an outside shot as a reverse splitter at some T20s where your GPA is above median (including Cornell and GULC). However, schools like NU and Duke may see their median GPAs dip quite a bit this year with the downturn in apps, so next cycle you may actually be above median at some other lower T14s. I would just apply everywhere where you are above median GPA (or close enough to median that it could realistically be their new target median, like if they have a 3.72 or so). Your strong softs can play a factor in helping them decide to overlook your LSAT in light of an above median GPA, but I wouldn't expect to get in anywhere where you are below both medians.

GL


Thanks a lot for your input. I understand being a reverse splitter is at a bit of disadvantage compared to the other way around, wasn't really counting on having a decent chance anyway but I am still going to give it a shot. Hopefully the current trend of declining law school applicants would benefit me and other vets applying this cycle.
It would be really sweet if my chain of command can grant me a 90 day school drop once I get accepted somewhere since I will barely be able to make it to the fall semester if I save up every single day of my leave till I get out. I have been away from home for so long and I will probably need some time to adjust and take care of stuff prior to school. I am hoping it would go through since my mos is overstrengthed, not to mention downsizing.

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TheSpanishMain
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Re: Veterans Thread

Postby TheSpanishMain » Wed Aug 07, 2013 12:48 pm

This may be an inherently stupid question, but just throwing it out there:

Has anyone made any attempts to quantify the "military boost"? As in, you can add 1 to your LSAT and .1 to your GPA or something? I know any attempt would be rough since the impressiveness of military service can vary wildly, but figured it would be worth a shot. Conventional wisdom on TLS regarding softs is always something like, "Softs don't really matter....except a few things, like veterans status." Everyone seems to agree the military boost is real, but I've never seen anyone try to give a rough estimate on how significant it is.

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SemperLegal
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Re: Veterans Thread

Postby SemperLegal » Wed Aug 07, 2013 1:20 pm

TheSpanishMain wrote:This may be an inherently stupid question, but just throwing it out there:

Has anyone made any attempts to quantify the "military boost"? As in, you can add 1 to your LSAT and .1 to your GPA or something? I know any attempt would be rough since the impressiveness of military service can vary wildly, but figured it would be worth a shot. Conventional wisdom on TLS regarding softs is always something like, "Softs don't really matter....except a few things, like veterans status." Everyone seems to agree the military boost is real, but I've never seen anyone try to give a rough estimate on how significant it is.



Well first, unless you have the MOH, military experience is all the same. Civilians already assume that we all do the same thing.

I think the boost is more irregular based on the school, some school care, others do not. IMO, military experince mostly helps overcome a low GPA, since you can argue that you've changed since then. LSAT, not so much.

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willwash
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Re: Veterans Thread

Postby willwash » Wed Aug 07, 2013 1:23 pm

TheSpanishMain wrote:This may be an inherently stupid question, but just throwing it out there:

Has anyone made any attempts to quantify the "military boost"? As in, you can add 1 to your LSAT and .1 to your GPA or something? I know any attempt would be rough since the impressiveness of military service can vary wildly, but figured it would be worth a shot. Conventional wisdom on TLS regarding softs is always something like, "Softs don't really matter....except a few things, like veterans status." Everyone seems to agree the military boost is real, but I've never seen anyone try to give a rough estimate on how significant it is.


From everything I've heard, veteran's status can be a real wildcard. A buddy in my sqadron (Non VA resident) got waitlisted at Wm and Mary with a ~3.5 and 156. I think W&M would auto ding anyone else with those numbers. I think a lot of it depends on the depth of the veterans in the applicant pool...not to say it's a quota, but if very few veterans have applied to a given school in a given cycle, any veteran applying to that school in that cycle is likely to see a much bigger boost than if tons of vets are applying. This is almost impossible to assess on a statistically significant scale, so I think it's very hard to assess the magnitude of the veteran boost, except to say that it does exist.

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Ex Cearulo
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Re: Veterans Thread

Postby Ex Cearulo » Wed Aug 07, 2013 1:36 pm

cerberus7 wrote:Hello all,

I would like to say thanks to everyone here for your service. I have been reading through this thread, and this is my first post.

160/3.7 (taken the LSAT three times, looks like the score is not improving anymore)
E-5, Army, MI, currently stationed in RoK
ETSing November '14 but planning to take terminal leave to get out by mid-August so that I can barely meet the fall semester time frame

My background might be a bit unorthodox; born and raised in Asia, moved to the States with my family when I was in high school while applying for permanent residency, aged out of my original status while in college, switched to "international student" status, did some manual labor after college (it was near impossible to find a job during the height of the sub-prime fiasco as an intl student), and joined the Army under a wartime recruiting program targeting valid visa holders. Normally people like myself won't be able to join but I was extremely fortunate; it took me almost a year to ship out due to the competition among other "applicants" and the two medical waivers I had to get, and that wait was nerve-wrecking as an individual with an unstable legal status.

I am planning to stay within NY after LS, and I am hoping for either Fordham or Cardozo with YRP and BAH kicking in. Columbia has always been my dream school but well my numbers are just embarrassing. I wonder if I will ever have chance for lower T-14s like Cornell or GULC but then again I am non-URM.

The general impression I get from TLS is that military experience is a very good soft but not significant enough to offset lacking LSAT score, along with the personal statement. At least I do have things to write about; I have been writing drafts focusing on my struggle to adjust to the real world after graduation, and how the course of my life as an immigrant has been shaped by the trend of U.S. foreign policy. However, I feel like I should elaborate more on the military experience to take full advantage of the "soft". Would a diversity statement about my immigrant/military background help? It looks like my PS/DS may be overlapping in terms of contents, and I don't know if that's good.


Welcome! I spent a year in the "land of the not quite right" back in '09 when I was at Osan AB. A couple questions: Did you take any/all of your LSATs in Korea? If so, what was that experience like? Did you take it on base with a native English speaking proctor team? Or was it something else? Just a little curious as to whether you think the environment of a foriegn country had any impact on your performance.

Cobretti's advice makes sense, as does Fordham/Cardozo with your desire to stay in NYC. Thanks to YRP/BAH you have a lot more options when it comes to schools vs. debt. Best of luck to you.

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Ex Cearulo
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Re: Veterans Thread

Postby Ex Cearulo » Wed Aug 07, 2013 1:47 pm

SemperLegal wrote:
TheSpanishMain wrote:This may be an inherently stupid question, but just throwing it out there:

Has anyone made any attempts to quantify the "military boost"? As in, you can add 1 to your LSAT and .1 to your GPA or something? I know any attempt would be rough since the impressiveness of military service can vary wildly, but figured it would be worth a shot. Conventional wisdom on TLS regarding softs is always something like, "Softs don't really matter....except a few things, like veterans status." Everyone seems to agree the military boost is real, but I've never seen anyone try to give a rough estimate on how significant it is.



Well first, unless you have the MOH, military experience is all the same. Civilians already assume that we all do the same thing.

I think the boost is more irregular based on the school, some school care, others do not. IMO, military experince mostly helps overcome a low GPA, since you can argue that you've changed since then. LSAT, not so much.


I don't know, I think I'd have to disagree with you that all military experience is the same, at least in the eyes of an admissions committee. Do a lot of civilians have little to no knowledge about what people in the military do? Sure. They know what they know from movies and tv, after all. But thanks to resumes, personal statements, and years of experience looking at veterans' applications, I'd like to think that an admissions committee would get different impressions from different veterans. All else (numbers) being equal, surely they look at a 15-yr Army combat veteran with 6 tours of duty in Iraq and Afghanistan differently than a one-tour-and-done 4 yr. Coast Guard veteran whose resume says they mostly handled administrative tasks (i.e. Finance or Personnel). Different veterans' applications demonstrate different levels of responsibility, experience, and leadership experience in their past.

I do agree with the overcoming GPA versus overcoming LSAT, though. And in my case I sure hope it's true. :D

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TheSpanishMain
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Re: Veterans Thread

Postby TheSpanishMain » Wed Aug 07, 2013 2:08 pm

HawgDriver wrote:I do agree with the overcoming GPA versus overcoming LSAT, though. And in my case I sure hope it's true. :D


You and me both. 3.37 with a downward trend in my senior year thanks to too much slacking off, boozing, and sleeping in. :(

cerberus7
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Re: Veterans Thread

Postby cerberus7 » Thu Aug 08, 2013 5:06 am

HawgDriver wrote:
cerberus7 wrote:Hello all,

I would like to say thanks to everyone here for your service. I have been reading through this thread, and this is my first post.

160/3.7 (taken the LSAT three times, looks like the score is not improving anymore)
E-5, Army, MI, currently stationed in RoK
ETSing November '14 but planning to take terminal leave to get out by mid-August so that I can barely meet the fall semester time frame

My background might be a bit unorthodox; born and raised in Asia, moved to the States with my family when I was in high school while applying for permanent residency, aged out of my original status while in college, switched to "international student" status, did some manual labor after college (it was near impossible to find a job during the height of the sub-prime fiasco as an intl student), and joined the Army under a wartime recruiting program targeting valid visa holders. Normally people like myself won't be able to join but I was extremely fortunate; it took me almost a year to ship out due to the competition among other "applicants" and the two medical waivers I had to get, and that wait was nerve-wrecking as an individual with an unstable legal status.

I am planning to stay within NY after LS, and I am hoping for either Fordham or Cardozo with YRP and BAH kicking in. Columbia has always been my dream school but well my numbers are just embarrassing. I wonder if I will ever have chance for lower T-14s like Cornell or GULC but then again I am non-URM.

The general impression I get from TLS is that military experience is a very good soft but not significant enough to offset lacking LSAT score, along with the personal statement. At least I do have things to write about; I have been writing drafts focusing on my struggle to adjust to the real world after graduation, and how the course of my life as an immigrant has been shaped by the trend of U.S. foreign policy. However, I feel like I should elaborate more on the military experience to take full advantage of the "soft". Would a diversity statement about my immigrant/military background help? It looks like my PS/DS may be overlapping in terms of contents, and I don't know if that's good.


Welcome! I spent a year in the "land of the not quite right" back in '09 when I was at Osan AB. A couple questions: Did you take any/all of your LSATs in Korea? If so, what was that experience like? Did you take it on base with a native English speaking proctor team? Or was it something else? Just a little curious as to whether you think the environment of a foriegn country had any impact on your performance.

Cobretti's advice makes sense, as does Fordham/Cardozo with your desire to stay in NYC. Thanks to YRP/BAH you have a lot more options when it comes to schools vs. debt. Best of luck to you.


I took the last 2 in Korea. Currently there is only one test center in Korea, Yonsei University. I have inquired at the education center on base and they did not offer it. It was a safe bet that I took my 4 day pass to take the test for winning the 8th Army Linguist of the Qtr board. I would say about 70% of the test takers were Korean Americans or Korean nationals wanting to go international. All the proctors were locals who spoke some English. I saw them talking to some test takers in Korean during break. IMO there was not much difference compared to taking the test in the stateside except for one thing; we had a blackout during the 4th portion of the LSAT in February this year, and the lights never came back in. The proctors tried to open up the blinds but unfortunately they were those remote controlled ones and shut tight so we had to finish the test in relative darkness. Maybe I should have appealed even though I don't think that affected me much; couple of the Korean girls left after the test crying to their parents waiting for them outside the building. Typical Asian zeal much?

From what I've read so far, the general consensus on TLS is that attending Fordham/Cardozo is a risky move due to dismal job prospects. Well at least I won't have to worry about paying sticker (currently debt free, paid off college with scholarship/RAing), and I am betting on employers considering vets favorably. Maybe I am just being overly optimistic but still better than the other way round.

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MT Cicero
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Re: Veterans Thread

Postby MT Cicero » Thu Aug 08, 2013 8:53 am

TheSpanishMain wrote:
HawgDriver wrote:I do agree with the overcoming GPA versus overcoming LSAT, though. And in my case I sure hope it's true. :D


You and me both. 3.37 with a downward trend in my senior year thanks to too much slacking off, boozing, and sleeping in. :(


Hey, overachiever, settle down! If GPAs were schools, you'd at least be a state flagship while I would be Joe's Online TTTTTT Law College!

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heythatslife
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Re: Veterans Thread

Postby heythatslife » Thu Aug 08, 2013 9:43 am

HawgDriver wrote:
cerberus7 wrote:Hello all,

I would like to say thanks to everyone here for your service. I have been reading through this thread, and this is my first post.

160/3.7 (taken the LSAT three times, looks like the score is not improving anymore)
E-5, Army, MI, currently stationed in RoK
ETSing November '14 but planning to take terminal leave to get out by mid-August so that I can barely meet the fall semester time frame

My background might be a bit unorthodox; born and raised in Asia, moved to the States with my family when I was in high school while applying for permanent residency, aged out of my original status while in college, switched to "international student" status, did some manual labor after college (it was near impossible to find a job during the height of the sub-prime fiasco as an intl student), and joined the Army under a wartime recruiting program targeting valid visa holders. Normally people like myself won't be able to join but I was extremely fortunate; it took me almost a year to ship out due to the competition among other "applicants" and the two medical waivers I had to get, and that wait was nerve-wrecking as an individual with an unstable legal status.

I am planning to stay within NY after LS, and I am hoping for either Fordham or Cardozo with YRP and BAH kicking in. Columbia has always been my dream school but well my numbers are just embarrassing. I wonder if I will ever have chance for lower T-14s like Cornell or GULC but then again I am non-URM.

The general impression I get from TLS is that military experience is a very good soft but not significant enough to offset lacking LSAT score, along with the personal statement. At least I do have things to write about; I have been writing drafts focusing on my struggle to adjust to the real world after graduation, and how the course of my life as an immigrant has been shaped by the trend of U.S. foreign policy. However, I feel like I should elaborate more on the military experience to take full advantage of the "soft". Would a diversity statement about my immigrant/military background help? It looks like my PS/DS may be overlapping in terms of contents, and I don't know if that's good.


Welcome! I spent a year in the "land of the not quite right" back in '09 when I was at Osan AB. A couple questions: Did you take any/all of your LSATs in Korea? If so, what was that experience like? Did you take it on base with a native English speaking proctor team? Or was it something else? Just a little curious as to whether you think the environment of a foriegn country had any impact on your performance.

Cobretti's advice makes sense, as does Fordham/Cardozo with your desire to stay in NYC. Thanks to YRP/BAH you have a lot more options when it comes to schools vs. debt. Best of luck to you.


@cerberus7:
Welcome. If you can tie your military experience into your PS, then it's definitely a good idea. If you want to write a separate DS, then I think one way of "deconflicting" the two essays to prevent overlap is to emphasize on the military experience in one and the immigrant experience on the other.
Kinda amusing to think we might have run into each other in Yongsan (although, of course, USAG-Y is a pretty large base). I'm ROKN, and I make a few trips to Yongsan each year.
ETA: I don't know why I assumed you'd be in Yongsan.

@Hawgdriver:
I also took the LSAT twice in Korea, both times at the Yonsei University test center. I thought it was a rather efficiently run administration. There is a central proctor keeping the time and her timing is on the dot right down to the second, so there's very little danger of a careless proctor messing the time up. I had no issues on both occasions, and if I had to take the test a third time I would have no qualms about signing up at the same location. (Not that I need to do this ;))

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ScottRiqui
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Re: Veterans Thread

Postby ScottRiqui » Thu Aug 08, 2013 10:05 pm

How are you planning on documenting your military service in your resumé, especially if you've had quite a few assignments?

I don't think adcomms/employers are really going to care that I was with 'X' squadron from 1999-2002, so I don't want to do a straight chronological resumé and list each assignment as a separate 'job'. This would also make it difficult to keep everything to a single page.

I'm thinking about just giving my service start/end dates, and breaking it up into categories covering my enlisted time (reactor operator), aviation (fleet tour and instructor tour), academic (military postgrad school and joint instructor, and a 'catchall' covering my disassociated sea tour and non-flying squadron tour. Under each heading, I'd list a short description, along with some bullet points documenting important qualifications/skills.

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Rotor
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Re: Veterans Thread

Postby Rotor » Fri Aug 09, 2013 12:30 am

ScottRiqui wrote:How are you planning on documenting your military service in your resumé, especially if you've had quite a few assignments?

I don't think adcomms/employers are really going to care that I was with 'X' squadron from 1999-2002, so I don't want to do a straight chronological resumé and list each assignment as a separate 'job'. This would also make it difficult to keep everything to a single page.

I'm thinking about just giving my service start/end dates, and breaking it up into categories covering my enlisted time (reactor operator), aviation (fleet tour and instructor tour), academic (military postgrad school and joint instructor, and a 'catchall' covering my disassociated sea tour and non-flying squadron tour. Under each heading, I'd list a short description, along with some bullet points documenting important qualifications/skills.

I did a topical rather than chronological and it worked well. It will become even more important once you go into OCI and need to include your law-school cred in addition to all the stuff that has come before (and still stick to two pages max (one sheet, front & back)).

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TheSpanishMain
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Re: Veterans Thread

Postby TheSpanishMain » Fri Aug 09, 2013 12:48 pm

Anyone had any experience with what happens when the GI Bill + a school scholarship = more than your total bill? If that results in a credit to your student account, does the excess just go back to the VA, or does the student see any of that?

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ScottRiqui
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Re: Veterans Thread

Postby ScottRiqui » Fri Aug 09, 2013 1:16 pm

TheSpanishMain wrote:Anyone had any experience with what happens when the GI Bill + a school scholarship = more than your total bill? If that results in a credit to your student account, does the excess just go back to the VA, or does the student see any of that?


Assuming you're talking about the Post-9/11 GI Bill, it's changed, and now it's the "last payer". So, all scholarships and other reductions to tuition/fees are applied to your bill *before* the GI Bill pays out anything. As such, there's no way to have any "left over" to either "go back" to the VA or to the student.

Quick example: $40k/year tuition/fees at a private school, $19k/year GI bill contribution, and a $25k/year scholarship:

$40k bill minus $25k scholarship equals $15k, which is below the GI Bill contribution limit. The GI Bill pays out that $15k, and that's all.

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esypsylmnsqsy
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Re: Veterans Thread

Postby esypsylmnsqsy » Fri Aug 09, 2013 10:55 pm

Hi all. New to TLS in the last few weeks and wanted to introduce myself on this thread.

6 year Navy E-5
Intel
173 LSAT/3.15 GPA

I heard from several of you when I posted to the "chance me" thread. I will be applying this fall, wrapping with the Navy in the spring. I'm wondering if there is anyone willing to swap and/or look at my PS, resume, possibly academic addendum. I know there are other places to do that on here but I would appreciate hearing from this community. Here's looking forward to a fruitful cycle!

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Rotor
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Re: Veterans Thread

Postby Rotor » Sat Aug 10, 2013 12:22 am

ScottRiqui wrote:
TheSpanishMain wrote:Anyone had any experience with what happens when the GI Bill + a school scholarship = more than your total bill? If that results in a credit to your student account, does the excess just go back to the VA, or does the student see any of that?


Assuming you're talking about the Post-9/11 GI Bill, it's changed, and now it's the "last payer". So, all scholarships and other reductions to tuition/fees are applied to your bill *before* the GI Bill pays out anything. As such, there's no way to have any "left over" to either "go back" to the VA or to the student.

Quick example: $40k/year tuition/fees at a private school, $19k/year GI bill contribution, and a $25k/year scholarship:

$40k bill minus $25k scholarship equals $15k, which is below the GI Bill contribution limit. The GI Bill pays out that $15k, and that's all.

Yes, GI Bill is the "last payer" but that only applies when the scholarship is "for the sole purpose of defraying tuition and fees."
38 USC 3313 (c)(1)(A) wrote:The VA will pay the actual net cost for in-State tuition and fees assessed by the institution for the program of education after the application of—

– any waiver of, or reduction in, tuition and fees; and

– any scholarship, or other Federal, State, institutional, or employer-based aid or assistance (other than loans and any funds provided under section 401(b) of the Higher Education Act of 1965 (20 U.S.C. 1070a) [Federal Title IV]) that is provided directly to the institution and specifically designated for the sole purpose of defraying tuition and fees;

Therefore, if you can convince your school (or whatever the source of your scholarship/grant may be) to make the grant available for tuition, fees and living expenses, it should be refundable. I was not in this situation so I do not have first-hand experience how it works, but I've heard of it working for others.

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ScottRiqui
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Re: Veterans Thread

Postby ScottRiqui » Sat Aug 10, 2013 12:52 am

Rotor wrote:
ScottRiqui wrote:
TheSpanishMain wrote:Anyone had any experience with what happens when the GI Bill + a school scholarship = more than your total bill? If that results in a credit to your student account, does the excess just go back to the VA, or does the student see any of that?


Assuming you're talking about the Post-9/11 GI Bill, it's changed, and now it's the "last payer". So, all scholarships and other reductions to tuition/fees are applied to your bill *before* the GI Bill pays out anything. As such, there's no way to have any "left over" to either "go back" to the VA or to the student.

Quick example: $40k/year tuition/fees at a private school, $19k/year GI bill contribution, and a $25k/year scholarship:

$40k bill minus $25k scholarship equals $15k, which is below the GI Bill contribution limit. The GI Bill pays out that $15k, and that's all.

Yes, GI Bill is the "last payer" but that only applies when the scholarship is "for the sole purpose of defraying tuition and fees."
38 USC 3313 (c)(1)(A) wrote:The VA will pay the actual net cost for in-State tuition and fees assessed by the institution for the program of education after the application of—

– any waiver of, or reduction in, tuition and fees; and

– any scholarship, or other Federal, State, institutional, or employer-based aid or assistance (other than loans and any funds provided under section 401(b) of the Higher Education Act of 1965 (20 U.S.C. 1070a) [Federal Title IV]) that is provided directly to the institution and specifically designated for the sole purpose of defraying tuition and fees;

Therefore, if you can convince your school (or whatever the source of your scholarship/grant may be) to make the grant available for tuition, fees and living expenses, it should be refundable. I was not in this situation so I do not have first-hand experience how it works, but I've heard of it working for others.


That's true - if you can get the school (or whoever) to give you money that's not earmarked specifically for tuition/fees, then it shouldn't reduce the GI Bill contribution. Unfortunately, I'm like you in that I don't know the mechanics of how to set up such a "drug deal".

I hope that there's such a mechanism in place, though, because at least for public schools, it would make scholarships largely useless for the student; any money that the school gives you specifically toward tuition/fees is just going to reduce the GI Bill contribution, and not give a net benefit to the student.




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