Veterans Thread

(Applications Advice, Letters of Recommendation . . . )
Burne182
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Re: Veterans Thread

Postby Burne182 » Fri Jun 07, 2013 8:53 am

I was afraid of that; the scholarship quite clearly states "tuition-only". I just wasn't sure if the VA lumped tuition+fees together or if they, like the school, handled them separately.

But thank you for that, Semper!

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SemperLegal
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Re: Veterans Thread

Postby SemperLegal » Fri Jun 07, 2013 9:43 pm

Burne182 wrote:I was afraid of that; the scholarship quite clearly states "tuition-only". I just wasn't sure if the VA lumped tuition+fees together or if they, like the school, handled them separately.

But thank you for that, Semper!



I'd call or visit financial aid and see if they can apply it to cost/fees first, or if they can make it a CoL scholarship, limited to the amount of tuition.. A lot of registrars and financial aid people are fairly good at helping you extract every cent of value.

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Metanoia
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Re: Veterans Thread

Postby Metanoia » Sun Jun 09, 2013 3:56 pm

Anybody know which "Community College of the Air Force" I should choose for LSACs CAS? I received a few credits for Basic Training at Lackland and a few during tech-school at Sheppard, but my undergrad transcript shows Maxwell AFB, which I assumed is where the CCAF headquarters is. LSAC has three options, Lackland, Randolph, and "AL". I'm leaning toward "AL" since my transripts say Maxwell and it's in Alabama, but since I earned some of the credits at Lackland, and never set foot in Alabama while in the AF, Lackland may make more sense. I'm guessing they'll figure it out either way, but want to get it right so I don't have to jump through hoops to get it changed later. Also, anybody else use Cleps and Dantes tests toward their undergrad? Do I need to indicate that somewhere or just have the transcripts sent to LSAC?

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TheSpanishMain
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Re: Veterans Thread

Postby TheSpanishMain » Tue Jun 11, 2013 1:04 pm

Hey all. Glad to have found this thread.

Anyone have any sense of how the whole "military boost" factor is playing out these days? I just took the LSAT yesterday and I think it was pretty mediocre. I don't think I bombed it or anything, but my guess is somewhere in the 165 region. My undergraduate GPA is similarly mediocre at 3.37.

A little about my background: Army Reserve officer (intel) with a fair amount of active duty time for a reservist (just shy of the 36 month mark, including an Iraq deployment as a company commander.) Also worked in intelligence for the federal government as a civilian for about 5 years, with a deployment to Afghanistan. I have a masters (I know, I know...who cares) and a fair amount of international experience. I should also be eligible for 100% of the post 9/11 through my wife, who is active duty. Post law school I'm hoping for the JAG corps, but failing that some kind of government/PI work and then do JAG as a reservist.

I'm not shooting for HYS here, but a respectable state school along the lines of W&M or UNC would be nice.

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unc0mm0n1
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Re: Veterans Thread

Postby unc0mm0n1 » Tue Jun 11, 2013 2:59 pm

craigsan18 wrote:
Cobretti wrote:
craigsan18 wrote:Just saw the WSJ article about YRP increases at Stanford, Columbia, NYU, Duke and NW. While it stated that the first 3 have gone to 100% coverage of any remaining tuition through YRP; it mentioned Duke and NW had increased either number of allowed participants, match amount or both.

Anybody have SA on what their contributions are going to?

I'm applying next cycle, so the trends interest me more than the 2013-14 amounts. And it seems to me that some very elite schools are trending very pro-veteran. This I like!

Also, I'll post a spreadsheet (just like the first post of page 18 of this thread) for the 2013-14 school year after all the YRP numbers drop (supposed to be May-ish). I'll throw the 2013 BAH in there for the top 30-40 or so as well.

NU's finaid office doesn't seem to be aware of any changes. Just got my YRP spot secured, and its still 15k school contribution and 10 spots.


Just out of curiosity, did they use up all 10 spots? It would certainly suck to be the 11th person in the line handing out $30K checks.


I thought the same thing as well. At least during my cycle both Berkeley and Harvard told me don't worry about the number of Yellow Ribbon applicants they'd find enough slots for everyone. That was a few years ago so it might be different now but that really put my mind at ease. Yellow Ribbon weighed heavily in my decision so it was good to know that certain school valued veterans. I'm looking at you as well Yale.

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Zoomie
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Re: Veterans Thread

Postby Zoomie » Thu Jun 13, 2013 12:41 am

Metanoia wrote:Anybody know which "Community College of the Air Force" I should choose for LSACs CAS? I received a few credits for Basic Training at Lackland and a few during tech-school at Sheppard, but my undergrad transcript shows Maxwell AFB, which I assumed is where the CCAF headquarters is. LSAC has three options, Lackland, Randolph, and "AL". I'm leaning toward "AL" since my transripts say Maxwell and it's in Alabama, but since I earned some of the credits at Lackland, and never set foot in Alabama while in the AF, Lackland may make more sense. I'm guessing they'll figure it out either way, but want to get it right so I don't have to jump through hoops to get it changed later. Also, anybody else use Cleps and Dantes tests toward their undergrad? Do I need to indicate that somewhere or just have the transcripts sent to LSAC?



Choose the Alabama one. The CCAF is technically at Maxwell. Just have the transcripts sent LSAC. I haven't clepped anything, is it a pass/fail grade or do you actually receive a letter grade?

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Metanoia
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Re: Veterans Thread

Postby Metanoia » Thu Jun 13, 2013 4:24 pm

Zoomie wrote:
Choose the Alabama one. The CCAF is technically at Maxwell. Just have the transcripts sent LSAC. I haven't clepped anything, is it a pass/fail you actually receive a letter grade?


Thanks, that makes sense. Cleps are just pass/fail. I don't see any options that look relevant to Clep/Dantes, so I'm thinking you're right and I just need to send the transcripts.

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Ex Cearulo
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Re: Veterans Thread

Postby Ex Cearulo » Sat Jun 15, 2013 1:09 pm

tjsmms061906 wrote:
MapsMapsMaps wrote:
MapsMapsMaps wrote:Any idea when the new GI Bill and Yellow Ribbon amounts are published?

Bump. Got buried on previous page.


New Yellow Ribbon amounts get posted on June 15, 2013.

Maps, is this what you were looking for? Looks like Academic Year 2013-2014 (effective August 1st, 2013) Post 9/11 GI Bill & Yellow Ribbon tuition cap for private schools is $19,198.31. Not too shabby if the school matches 100% of that.

http://www.gibill.va.gov/resources/benefits_resources/rates/CH33/Ch33rates080113.html

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MT Cicero
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Re: Veterans Thread

Postby MT Cicero » Sat Jun 15, 2013 3:10 pm

*EDIT: Now for the 2014-15 school year!

Fellow vets, I have some decent data to share with you guys. It's an Excel spreadsheet I created and it lives here:

2014-15 GI Bill + Yellow Ribbon

This is basically something I've put together on the top-50 law schools as ranked by USNWR. This is for the 2013-2014 school year and has been updated as of today's release of the Yellow Ribbon participants and amounts. Here's how to read the spreadsheet from left to right by column number:

1)School / 2)USN Rank / 3)State / 4)Public or Private = self-explanatory
5)Tuition and Fees = OUT OF STATE tuition for the school (for private schools this is just their T&F)
6)GI Bill Pays = Amount GI Bill will pay for 100% recipients (always $19198.31 for private and equal to in-state tuition for public)
7)Left Over = The difference in (5) and (6) above
8)Y.R.? = Is the school a Yellow Ribbon contributor, yes or no?
9)# of Yellow Ribbon Students = The number of YR students the school admits
10)Yellow Ribbon $$$ = How much will the school contribute per eligible student (VA matches that amount)
11)Net Tuition = The total amount from (7) MINUS the YR contribution from both the school and the VA. These are grouped by category starting with the schools that would be tuition-free.
12)BAH = The amount of the housing allowance you'd receive for attending that school

I'll throw a post together tomorrow with some of the movers from last year to this (and which direction they moved). Also, be advised that 13 of these schools haven't posted tuition and fees for this coming year on their website yet. I have them noted with an asterisk, but it shouldn't change their amounts very much at all. For their tuition, I used last year's and added 5% to both in-state and out-of-state tuition.

A few other items:

-Some Texas public school students may have their own version of free law school, but I didn't know for sure if that applied to all military or just those who were planning on staying in Texas. Read the Hazelwood Exemption for more details.
-I can only go by what the VA posts on their site, so if a specific school thinks I have their information wrong, let me know! I'll get it updated and get accurate info out to those who are looking for it!

Feel free to PM with any questions!
Last edited by MT Cicero on Sun Jul 20, 2014 10:00 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Metanoia
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Re: Veterans Thread

Postby Metanoia » Sat Jun 15, 2013 3:44 pm

Thanks for that Craig. Emory's website (LinkRemoved) says they contribute $5,500 for YR, but only for 2 students. Both spots are already taken this year, so maybe that's why the VA says they don't participate.

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MT Cicero
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Re: Veterans Thread

Postby MT Cicero » Sat Jun 15, 2013 4:50 pm

Metanoia wrote:Thanks for that Craig. Emory's website (LinkRemoved) says they contribute $5,500 for YR, but only for 2 students. Both spots are already taken this year, so maybe that's why the VA says they don't participate.


I saw that as well and came to the same assumption, but I don't know why they wouldn't still list their amounts. If anything, it ensures they show up when others search for the info and it looks better.

Though others have stated they've never seen someone turned down for YRP, there are enough schools with less than a half-dozen or so slots to make you wonder. It'd be tough to get accepted banking on thousands only to find out you were #3 in a 2-person program (or 6 in a 5).

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Ex Cearulo
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Re: Veterans Thread

Postby Ex Cearulo » Sat Jun 15, 2013 7:57 pm

craigsan18 wrote:Fellow vets, I have some decent data to share with you guys. It's an Excel spreadsheet I created and it lives here:

http://www.scribd.com/doc/148027072/GI- ... ibbon-Info
...

Craig,

This is king kong, dude. Quick question...for the public schools (UVA, Michigan, etc, for example), isn't it true that you have to be a resident of that state to get the GI Bill to cover the full remaining in-state tuition? If I'm reading the VA website correctly (reference my link in my previous post), I don't think any out-of-stater can walk in and get that much. Might be worth annotating. If I'm wrong though (which would be awesome), let me know.

Cheers,
HD

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Cobretti
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Re: Veterans Thread

Postby Cobretti » Sat Jun 15, 2013 8:06 pm

HawgDriver wrote:
craigsan18 wrote:Fellow vets, I have some decent data to share with you guys. It's an Excel spreadsheet I created and it lives here:

http://www.scribd.com/doc/148027072/GI- ... ibbon-Info
...

Craig,

This is king kong, dude. Quick question...for the public schools (UVA, Michigan, etc, for example), isn't it true that you have to be a resident of that state to get the GI Bill to cover the full remaining in-state tuition? If I'm reading the VA website correctly (reference my link in my previous post), I don't think any out-of-stater can walk in and get that much. Might be worth annotating. If I'm wrong though (which would be awesome), let me know.

Cheers,
HD

You don't have to be a resident to get the max in-state tuition for that state. You would simply get the same amount, but your tuition would be for a larger amount and you would be responsible for the difference.

http://www.gibill.va.gov/resources/benefits_resources/rates/CH33/Ch33rates080113.html#TUITION
Doesn't specify that, but it doesn't qualify the amount with any restrictions such as being a resident of that state. Also there doesn't seem to be any guidance at all for what the max tuition would be for non-residents at public schools if it wasn't the same, so I'm pretty positive everyone gets the same max rate per state.

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Ex Cearulo
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Re: Veterans Thread

Postby Ex Cearulo » Sat Jun 15, 2013 8:12 pm

Cobretti wrote:
HawgDriver wrote:
craigsan18 wrote:Fellow vets, I have some decent data to share with you guys. It's an Excel spreadsheet I created and it lives here:

http://www.scribd.com/doc/148027072/GI- ... ibbon-Info
...

Craig,

This is king kong, dude. Quick question...for the public schools (UVA, Michigan, etc, for example), isn't it true that you have to be a resident of that state to get the GI Bill to cover the full remaining in-state tuition? If I'm reading the VA website correctly (reference my link in my previous post), I don't think any out-of-stater can walk in and get that much. Might be worth annotating. If I'm wrong though (which would be awesome), let me know.

Cheers,
HD

You don't have to be a resident to get the max in-state tuition for that state. You would simply get the same amount, but your tuition would be for a larger amount and you would be responsible for the difference.

http://www.gibill.va.gov/resources/benefits_resources/rates/CH33/Ch33rates080113.html#TUITION
Doesn't specify that, but it doesn't qualify the amount with any restrictions such as being a resident of that state. Also there doesn't seem to be any guidance at all for what the max tuition would be for non-residents at public schools if it wasn't the same, so I'm pretty positive everyone gets the same max rate per state.


I see what you're saying. And I should have known better than to question a guy as sharp as Craig. I think I just interpreted it differently the first time. I read "All Tuition & Fee Payments for an in-State Student" as meaning "if" you're an in-state student. But yeah that wouldn't make sense...there's no information listed for out-of state students at public institutions, so your explanation makes more sense. I'm very happy to be wrong in this case. More opportunities to go to a great school for free!

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SemperLegal
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Re: Veterans Thread

Postby SemperLegal » Sat Jun 15, 2013 9:51 pm

HawgDriver wrote:
Cobretti wrote:
HawgDriver wrote:
craigsan18 wrote:Fellow vets, I have some decent data to share with you guys. It's an Excel spreadsheet I created and it lives here:

http://www.scribd.com/doc/148027072/GI- ... ibbon-Info
...

Craig,

This is king kong, dude. Quick question...for the public schools (UVA, Michigan, etc, for example), isn't it true that you have to be a resident of that state to get the GI Bill to cover the full remaining in-state tuition? If I'm reading the VA website correctly (reference my link in my previous post), I don't think any out-of-stater can walk in and get that much. Might be worth annotating. If I'm wrong though (which would be awesome), let me know.

Cheers,
HD

You don't have to be a resident to get the max in-state tuition for that state. You would simply get the same amount, but your tuition would be for a larger amount and you would be responsible for the difference.

http://www.gibill.va.gov/resources/benefits_resources/rates/CH33/Ch33rates080113.html#TUITION
Doesn't specify that, but it doesn't qualify the amount with any restrictions such as being a resident of that state. Also there doesn't seem to be any guidance at all for what the max tuition would be for non-residents at public schools if it wasn't the same, so I'm pretty positive everyone gets the same max rate per state.


I see what you're saying. And I should have known better than to question a guy as sharp as Craig. I think I just interpreted it differently the first time. I read "All Tuition & Fee Payments for an in-State Student" as meaning "if" you're an in-state student. But yeah that wouldn't make sense...there's no information listed for out-of state students at public institutions, so your explanation makes more sense. I'm very happy to be wrong in this case. More opportunities to go to a great school for free!


As an OOS student at a public school, I can confirm, OOS get paid the ISS rate, they are responsible for the gap (unless they have YRP). That being said, some states have special residency rules for the military. If you are still in and change your Home of Record to the law school state, and you cajole the admin bubbas, you might get final orders releasing as a resident of the state.

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MT Cicero
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Re: Veterans Thread

Postby MT Cicero » Sat Jun 15, 2013 10:58 pm

SemperLegal wrote: As an OOS student at a public school, I can confirm, OOS get paid the ISS rate, they are responsible for the gap (unless they have YRP). That being said, some states have special residency rules for the military. If you are still in and change your Home of Record to the law school state, and you cajole the admin bubbas, you might get final orders releasing as a resident of the state.


The bolded above is the crux of my document. My assumption is you never meet in-state residency while you're in law school at all, BUT you have YRP.

Hawg, your link references GI Bill only. GI Bill doesn't combine normal payments and YR payments and look at that total amount in comparison to the tuition rates. First comes GI Bill. It gives you $19K+ for private and in-state tuition for public. Done-zo. THEN, YRP comes in and says, "Hey brah, you have any money you're still going to pay?" In all cases for an OSS that doesn't meet residency, the answer is yes (this is reflected in the "left over" column in my spreadsheet). YRP meets the remaining obligation (in Michigan's & UVA's case) or as much as it can (in Duke's case, for example).

So, take UVA. They've worked out the math to get it precise. Their difference between in-state and out-of-state is exactly $5K. So, they threw in a $2500 YRP amount. VA matches that amount...and you owe no tuition.

Now, about me getting into that school...not as cut and dry!

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UVAIce
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Re: Veterans Thread

Postby UVAIce » Sat Jun 15, 2013 11:11 pm

At UVA, and all Virginia public universities, veterans only pay in-state tuition. Your GI-Bill will cover 100% of what UVA charges without having to deal with any YRP nonsense.

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MT Cicero
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Re: Veterans Thread

Postby MT Cicero » Sat Jun 15, 2013 11:28 pm

UVAIce wrote:At UVA, and all Virginia public universities, veterans only pay in-state tuition. Your GI-Bill will cover 100% of what UVA charges without having to deal with any YRP nonsense.


After all of 20 seconds searching, here is the news release that validates the above:

--LinkRemoved--

The spreadsheet has been updated and folks looking for W&M or George Mason will find them in the top section of the spreadsheet now!

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MT Cicero
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Re: Veterans Thread

Postby MT Cicero » Sat Jun 15, 2013 11:47 pm

For those link-averse among us, here is the list of schools and the financial category they fall under:

Tuition-free
Harvard
Stanford
Columbia
NYU
UVA
UC-Berkeley
Michigan
Cornell
UCLA
WUSTL
GWU
Alabama
Indiana
Washington & Lee
ASU
William & Mary
Wisconsin
Fordham
Arizona
George Mason
Utah
CU-Boulder
FSU
SMU

Tuition < $5K
Duke
UNC
BYU

Tuition $5K - $10K
Northwestern
Minnesota
Boston U
Wake Forest
UC-Davis
Maryland
Illinois
UC-Hastings

Tuition > $10K
Yale
Chicago
Penn
Georgetown
UT-Austin
Vandy
USC
ND
Emory
Iowa
Washington
Boston College
Georgia
Ohio State
Florida
Tulane
Houston

If you're a resident of a state and attend a public school (and are 100% GI Bill), yours will be free. Additionally, if a state has a special program for veterans, you may be free or cheaper there as well. Realize some special programs require intended residency after law school, so I didn't snoop around half the country looking for all the exceptions.

If YOU know of such a program, send me the link. I'll update the spreadsheet accordingly (as well as this post).

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ScottRiqui
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How did I miss this??

Postby ScottRiqui » Mon Jun 17, 2013 10:31 pm

Just found this on the VA's GI Bill site:


"The Post-9/11 GI Bill will pay you:

* all resident tuition & fees for a public school

* the higher of the actual tuition & fees or the national maximum per academic year for a private school. An exception to this exists for students enrolled in private schools in AZ, MI, NH, NY, PA, SC or TX. In these cases we will pay the higher of the actual tuition & fees or the highest public in-state undergraduate tuition & fees"


The bolded part is what I'm excited about, specifically as it concerns Texas. Now that I've searched for the exception, I've found references to it going back to October of 2011, but I swear I'd never seen it before today.

Prospective private college students in Texas really took it in the shorts when the Post-9/11 GI Bill moved away from "up to the highest public in-state undergraduate tuition & fees" to the "$18,500 cap for private schools" system, because under the old system, the Post-9/11 GI Bill would pay something like $1550 per credit hour, which is a damn sight better than $18,500/year.

So now, YRP at Texas schools is basically a non-issue, unless you're attending someplace that's more than ~$47k per year.

ETA - I think there may be a typo on the GI Bill site I linked to. It would make more sense if the VA paid the LOWER of the actual tuition & fees or the highest public in-state undergraduate tuition & fees, not the higher of the two.

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MT Cicero
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Re: How did I miss this??

Postby MT Cicero » Tue Jun 18, 2013 3:23 am

ScottRiqui wrote:Just found this on the VA's GI Bill site:


"The Post-9/11 GI Bill will pay you:

* all resident tuition & fees for a public school

* the higher of the actual tuition & fees or the national maximum per academic year for a private school. An exception to this exists for students enrolled in private schools in AZ, MI, NH, NY, PA, SC or TX. In these cases we will pay the higher of the actual tuition & fees or the highest public in-state undergraduate tuition & fees"


The bolded part is what I'm excited about, specifically as it concerns Texas. Now that I've searched for the exception, I've found references to it going back to October of 2011, but I swear I'd never seen it before today.

Prospective private college students in Texas really took it in the shorts when the Post-9/11 GI Bill moved away from "up to the highest public in-state undergraduate tuition & fees" to the "$18,500 cap for private schools" system, because under the old system, the Post-9/11 GI Bill would pay something like $1550 per credit hour, which is a damn sight better than $18,500/year.

So now, YRP at Texas schools is basically a non-issue, unless you're attending someplace that's more than ~$47k per year.

ETA - I think there may be a typo on the GI Bill site I linked to. It would make more sense if the VA paid the LOWER of the actual tuition & fees or the highest public in-state undergraduate tuition & fees, not the higher of the two.


Yeah, it looks like it is a typo on the page in your link. That link is to the YRP and there is a quick preamble about the GI Bill. That's where they get their info backwards.

Here is a link to GI Bill 2013-14: http://gibill.va.gov/resources/benefits ... 80113.html

Of note, the bolded in your statement above is only for the following: "Maximum Tuition & Fee Reimbursement per Academic Year for Students who are Attending a Private IHL in Selected States and Have Been Enrolled in the Same Program Since January 4, 2011"

That's where your 2011 comes in. It's basically a grandfather clause to those who got the higher rates and have maintained enrollment prior to that date.

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MT Cicero
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Re: Veterans Thread

Postby MT Cicero » Tue Jun 18, 2013 4:01 am

I just edited the spreadsheet again, bringing UT-Austin and Houston into the fold of the tuition-free schools. Realize the Texas educational code requires you to sign a letter of intent to become a TX resident in order to take advantage of the in-state tuition for vets. This info is noted at the bottom of the spreadsheet.

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ScottRiqui
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Re: How did I miss this??

Postby ScottRiqui » Tue Jun 18, 2013 6:26 am

craigsan18 wrote:Of note, the bolded in your statement above is only for the following: "Maximum Tuition & Fee Reimbursement per Academic Year for Students who are Attending a Private IHL in Selected States and Have Been Enrolled in the Same Program Since January 4, 2011"

That's where your 2011 comes in. It's basically a grandfather clause to those who got the higher rates and have maintained enrollment prior to that date.


Ah, gotcha. So for those of us who haven't started school yet, both the annual private school cap and the YRP are still relevant. Thanks.

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capt_slow
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Re: Veterans Thread

Postby capt_slow » Tue Jun 18, 2013 1:25 pm

Thanks for taking the time to put this together... Some useful information!

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Re: Veterans Thread

Postby JazzyMac » Wed Jun 19, 2013 9:23 pm

My name is JazzyMac and I want to go to Law School. Hi everyone!! I've been perusing g the forums and researching, but I'm excited about what I've read so far. I've been in the military for 17 years; plan on attending LS full time (of course) once I retire at 20 years. No LSAT yet, and my undergrad GPA was 3.4....yikes right? I'm eligible for the Hazelwood Act and still have GI Bill benefits.

Can I be able to attend school outside of TX essentially cost free?
Can I even attend LS?
Will a 20-year career assist my application?
So much more I am anxious to know!!




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