Veterans Thread

(Applications Advice, Letters of Recommendation . . . )
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MT Cicero
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Re: Veterans Thread

Postby MT Cicero » Mon Sep 12, 2016 9:41 am

Here is the link to my updated Excel spreadsheet listing approximately the top 100 law schools, and how much is covered by the GI Bill + Yellow Ribbon Program:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... sp=sharing

I've done this every year for the past four or so. Now that all public law schools are required to grant in-state tuition to qualifying veterans, it's only the private schools that fluctuate from year to year. Realize this spreadsheet shows how much someone with 100% GI Bill would expect to pay. Also, I've removed the BAH from each of the schools. It was too much work, and it's pretty easy to go find what BAH is for E-5 with dependents (which is what everyone gets).

Georgetown finally joined the majority of the T14 and now offers full Yellow Ribbon! Baylor decided to do away with the Yellow Ribbon program.

My guess is the amounts that are very close to covering full freight probably do once you chat with the school.

lawschoolvet
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Re: Veterans Thread

Postby lawschoolvet » Mon Sep 12, 2016 10:50 am

the excel spreadsheet is great. i'm trying to figure out, in terms of student support, how many vets are at each school in the T-14. has anyone collected this information?

Wipfelder
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Re: Veterans Thread

Postby Wipfelder » Mon Sep 12, 2016 9:42 pm

lawschoolvet wrote:the excel spreadsheet is great. i'm trying to figure out, in terms of student support, how many vets are at each school in the T-14. has anyone collected this information?


I'm not sure how that'd be collected, but I'd offer that its probably "lots and lots", like maybe ten or so per class in the T-14.....just based on anecdotal/personal experience

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usn26
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Re: Veterans Thread

Postby usn26 » Mon Sep 12, 2016 11:09 pm

Wipfelder wrote:
lawschoolvet wrote:the excel spreadsheet is great. i'm trying to figure out, in terms of student support, how many vets are at each school in the T-14. has anyone collected this information?


I'm not sure how that'd be collected, but I'd offer that its probably "lots and lots", like maybe ten or so per class in the T-14.....just based on anecdotal/personal experience


Some have pathetically small headcounts relative to class size, some are great, most are in between. AFAIK few actually keep track, and it's impossible to get an exact headcount anyway b/c it's up to the vets to self-identify (assuming the school actually asks).

lawschoolvet
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Re: Veterans Thread

Postby lawschoolvet » Tue Sep 13, 2016 9:49 am

usn26 wrote:
Wipfelder wrote:
lawschoolvet wrote:the excel spreadsheet is great. i'm trying to figure out, in terms of student support, how many vets are at each school in the T-14. has anyone collected this information?


I'm not sure how that'd be collected, but I'd offer that its probably "lots and lots", like maybe ten or so per class in the T-14.....just based on anecdotal/personal experience


Some have pathetically small headcounts relative to class size, some are great, most are in between. AFAIK few actually keep track, and it's impossible to get an exact headcount anyway b/c it's up to the vets to self-identify (assuming the school actually asks).



Which schools, outside of Yellow Ribbon support, are the most vet friendly/vet supportive? trying to get a sense of community and support, which numbers can tell but i suppose other measures as well...

Longsx3
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Re: Veterans Thread

Postby Longsx3 » Tue Sep 13, 2016 11:31 am

It would be great to know/track which schools are willing to convert academic scholarships to living stipend or include terminology that say the scholarships may be used for purposes other than tuition, making the Gi Bill first payer and the student to keep their scholarship. First hand I know that UF, Notre Dame, Miami, FSU and Vanderbilt will NOT. Alabama will.

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m052310
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Re: Veterans Thread

Postby m052310 » Tue Sep 13, 2016 12:13 pm

I would definitely lean heavily towards a school that did that (assuming they offered my money, of course).

CMac86
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Re: Veterans Thread

Postby CMac86 » Tue Sep 13, 2016 2:43 pm

MT Cicero wrote:Here is the link to my updated Excel spreadsheet listing approximately the top 100 law schools, and how much is covered by the GI Bill + Yellow Ribbon Program:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... sp=sharing

I've done this every year for the past four or so. Now that all public law schools are required to grant in-state tuition to qualifying veterans, it's only the private schools that fluctuate from year to year. Realize this spreadsheet shows how much someone with 100% GI Bill would expect to pay. Also, I've removed the BAH from each of the schools. It was too much work, and it's pretty easy to go find what BAH is for E-5 with dependents (which is what everyone gets).

Georgetown finally joined the majority of the T14 and now offers full Yellow Ribbon! Baylor decided to do away with the Yellow Ribbon program.

My guess is the amounts that are very close to covering full freight probably do once you chat with the school.


Thank you for doing that! That chart gives me a lot of hope. If I can get into any of my top 5 (including my two reach schools), it would be free/low cost.

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Dcc617
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Re: Veterans Thread

Postby Dcc617 » Tue Sep 13, 2016 3:31 pm

Longsx3 wrote:It would be great to know/track which schools are willing to convert academic scholarships to living stipend or include terminology that say the scholarships may be used for purposes other than tuition, making the Gi Bill first payer and the student to keep their scholarship. First hand I know that UF, Notre Dame, Miami, FSU and Vanderbilt will NOT. Alabama will.


Chicago will NOT.

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usn26
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Re: Veterans Thread

Postby usn26 » Tue Sep 13, 2016 10:13 pm

lawschoolvet wrote:Which schools, outside of Yellow Ribbon support, are the most vet friendly/vet supportive? trying to get a sense of community and support, which numbers can tell but i suppose other measures as well...


In the T14 I think that Georgetown and Michigan are excellent, and I got the impression that HYS are great as well, H particularly. Numbers are solid at UVA, NYU, and Columbia IIRC, although you'd have to ask someone there how well developed the community/support is.

Mcsale02
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Re: Veterans Thread

Postby Mcsale02 » Wed Sep 14, 2016 12:59 am

From earlier in the thread. It's a start.

FairchildFLT wrote:
doobleykah wrote:
FairchildFLT wrote:Hey everyone long time since I last posted here and I have another question.

I was recently granted a scholarship at UT Austin. I'm already GI Bill elligible so I need to have the scholarship set up so that it can be used for housing etc... so it wont toll against my GI Bill. I inquired with UT (and a lot of other schools) before applying and they confirmed they can do this. Is there any special verbiage I need to use to now request this?


BTW can you send a PM of the schools who had already said theyd play ball?


Michigan would, Texas would, Cornell gave me the run around on answering, CU Boulder would as well. GTown would not. Those are what I remember. I applied last cycle and deferred.

Mcsale02
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Re: Veterans Thread

Postby Mcsale02 » Wed Sep 14, 2016 1:02 am

Some schools release the info with incoming graduating class stats. Vanderbilt had 8 Army vets start this Fall. A few other schools released that info as well.

Wipfelder wrote:
lawschoolvet wrote:the excel spreadsheet is great. i'm trying to figure out, in terms of student support, how many vets are at each school in the T-14. has anyone collected this information?


I'm not sure how that'd be collected, but I'd offer that its probably "lots and lots", like maybe ten or so per class in the T-14.....just based on anecdotal/personal experience

Mcsale02
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Re: Veterans Thread

Postby Mcsale02 » Wed Sep 14, 2016 1:04 am

Info like this is reassuring. Thanks for sharing.

dodint wrote:
M052322 wrote: I've noticed those of us with a little more "mileage" tend to be a little more grounded, better prepared for class, asking better questions, and less flustered when cold-called by profs.


Our Profs have told us this as well, they say the actual life experience goes a long way.

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Specter1389
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Re: Veterans Thread

Postby Specter1389 » Wed Sep 14, 2016 7:03 am

Longsx3 wrote:It would be great to know/track which schools are willing to convert academic scholarships to living stipend or include terminology that say the scholarships may be used for purposes other than tuition, making the Gi Bill first payer and the student to keep their scholarship. First hand I know that UF, Notre Dame, Miami, FSU and Vanderbilt will NOT. Alabama will.

You and I received different information regarding UF. When I spoke with them last year, they stated they would apply the GI Bill first and any additional scholarship funds I had left over would be deposited into my checking account.

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regulartime
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Re: Veterans Thread

Postby regulartime » Wed Sep 14, 2016 9:53 am

MT Cicero wrote: Now that all public law schools are required to grant in-state tuition to qualifying veterans, it's only the private schools that fluctuate from year to year. Realize this spreadsheet shows how much someone with 100% GI Bill would expect to pay. Also, I've removed the BAH from each of the schools. It was too much work, and it's pretty easy to go find what BAH is for E-5 with dependents (which is what everyone gets).

Georgetown finally joined the majority of the T14 and now offers full Yellow Ribbon! Baylor decided to do away with the Yellow Ribbon program.



Is this a definite requirement for all schools? I only have 13 months of Post 9/11 GI Bill left, so I didn't use my benefits this year in case I lost my scholarship or didn't get approved for instate for next year. Knowing that they have to give me instate tuition the next two years if I use my benefits would be a relief and save me from a lot of trouble.

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Dcc617
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Re: Veterans Thread

Postby Dcc617 » Wed Sep 14, 2016 9:59 am

regulartime wrote:
MT Cicero wrote: Now that all public law schools are required to grant in-state tuition to qualifying veterans, it's only the private schools that fluctuate from year to year. Realize this spreadsheet shows how much someone with 100% GI Bill would expect to pay. Also, I've removed the BAH from each of the schools. It was too much work, and it's pretty easy to go find what BAH is for E-5 with dependents (which is what everyone gets).

Georgetown finally joined the majority of the T14 and now offers full Yellow Ribbon! Baylor decided to do away with the Yellow Ribbon program.



Is this a definite requirement for all schools? I only have 13 months of Post 9/11 GI Bill left, so I didn't use my benefits this year in case I lost my scholarship or didn't get approved for instate for next year. Knowing that they have to give me instate tuition the next two years if I use my benefits would be a relief and save me from a lot of trouble.


All public schools. Private schools use yellow ribbon.

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MT Cicero
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Re: Veterans Thread

Postby MT Cicero » Wed Sep 14, 2016 10:27 am

regulartime wrote:
MT Cicero wrote: Now that all public law schools are required to grant in-state tuition to qualifying veterans, it's only the private schools that fluctuate from year to year. Realize this spreadsheet shows how much someone with 100% GI Bill would expect to pay. Also, I've removed the BAH from each of the schools. It was too much work, and it's pretty easy to go find what BAH is for E-5 with dependents (which is what everyone gets).

Georgetown finally joined the majority of the T14 and now offers full Yellow Ribbon! Baylor decided to do away with the Yellow Ribbon program.



Is this a definite requirement for all schools? I only have 13 months of Post 9/11 GI Bill left, so I didn't use my benefits this year in case I lost my scholarship or didn't get approved for instate for next year. Knowing that they have to give me instate tuition the next two years if I use my benefits would be a relief and save me from a lot of trouble.


Here's some info: http://www.military.com/education/2015/ ... ition.html

So, there are exceptions (not for family members, need to start school within 3 years of discharge, etc.). But it appears that all the states have signed on.

Cjackson
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Re: Veterans Thread

Postby Cjackson » Tue Oct 04, 2016 4:18 pm

Hey guys, been lurking through these forums for a while now and especially this veterans thread but this is literally my first post ever. I'm an E-6 in the Army, currently active duty but looking to make the transition out and into law school. I was curious if any of you that don't have the best GPA and might have average LSAT scores are seeing any benefits from a unique PS or just for simply having unique work experience? Hopefully not beating a dead horse here.

Thanks in advance.

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dodint
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Re: Veterans Thread

Postby dodint » Tue Oct 04, 2016 4:22 pm

I used my PS to highlight that I earned my undergrad and part of my Masters while I was deployed to Iraq and Afghan. I do believe it had a significant positive impact on my ability to get accepted. I'm going to a Tier 3 school that fits my needs, though. If you're looking for T14 I can't really help you.

Given they assume you have a GI Bill probably doesn't hurt either.

Wipfelder
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Re: Veterans Thread

Postby Wipfelder » Tue Oct 04, 2016 4:26 pm

Cjackson wrote:Hey guys, been lurking through these forums for a while now and especially this veterans thread but this is literally my first post ever. I'm an E-6 in the Army, currently active duty but looking to make the transition out and into law school. I was curious if any of you that don't have the best GPA and might have average LSAT scores are seeing any benefits from a unique PS or just for simply having unique work experience? Hopefully not beating a dead horse here.

Thanks in advance.


Kill the LSAT and apply broadly. That seems to be the standard thing. If you are above a schools 25th in either GPA or LSAT, your "uniqueness" will probably help alot. If your not above the 25th in at least one of those two, then your probably "ehh" (unless your above or maybe just below the median for both LSAT and GPA).

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calpolisci2016
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Re: Veterans Thread

Postby calpolisci2016 » Tue Oct 04, 2016 6:54 pm

Do law schools care whether you are enlisted or an officer?

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TripTrip
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Re: Veterans Thread

Postby TripTrip » Tue Oct 04, 2016 7:01 pm

calpolisci2016 wrote:Do law schools care whether you are enlisted or an officer?

In my experience they don't seem to even know what the difference is. Though if you had more leadership roles on either side, you will probably have a stronger application.

AJordan
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Re: Veterans Thread

Postby AJordan » Wed Oct 05, 2016 4:09 am

Hello, folks. Thanks a ton for this thread. It's enlightening and, though massive, I've read the entirety of this year's entries and it has been incredibly helpful. I was hoping to ask for a bit of advice. Here's my situation:
33 year old, 10+ year Army SSG with current ETS of May 2019.
In an MOS that has experienced almost 50% cuts since I joined active duty with, subsequently, a very low chance of ever making E7.
Very supportive foreign national wife with green card (29). No children.
Recently recertified Secret (lol) Clearance.
No derogatory records otherwise.

On track to graduate with BS in October 2018 with a 3.2... 4.0 (hopefully) major GPA. Like many folks I was a loser before I joined the service and failed 6 classes. It was my wakeup call to join active duty.
First cold LSAT 153. After 2 weeks of solid study, 165. I realize this is only one data point but I feel I'm progressing significantly. Speed is my biggest enemy. Half the questions I miss are because I am moving too quickly through the material. I think 170 is a reasonable goal with a shout at 173. Anything under 165 would be an outlier and a cause for retest.

I have full post 9-11 available, I paid/am paying for my BS with TA and my own money.

I see no path forward in my MOS and am terrified of QSP. If I'm going to change my job I am wanting to consider all options. Assuming health, If I graduated law school is it even an option to rejoin as a lawyer once I finish as of current legislation or will prior service/age (38 at graduation) dq me? I realize this may be a question for a recruiter. GS jobs I have read ITT are an option, especially if located in DC and can be reactive? I might have trouble getting a TS because of my FN wife though that's admittedly conjecture. I could always get a civ job as an addiction counselor as that's what my degree is in. Maybe even ASAP. So there's that.

I have calculated out retirement to about 20k a year of salary/benefits if I stay until 20 where I am. If I live to an average life expectancy that's about 800k. Is it a super huge mistake to get out and go to law school with my prospects? I'm feeling like it's certainly a gamble, but if I have a solid fallback I'm leaning toward doing it.

tl/dr. Cheers.

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usn26
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Re: Veterans Thread

Postby usn26 » Wed Oct 05, 2016 7:44 am

AJordan wrote: Assuming health, If I graduated law school is it even an option to rejoin as a lawyer once I finish as of current legislation or will prior service/age (38 at graduation) dq me? I realize this may be a question for a recruiter.


I can't imagine you'd be dq'd for your enlisted service, although I don't know if such rules exist. Navy definitely and National Guard IIRC are an age limit of 42 (regular Army possibly as well). I think the other services cap the age in the mid-thirties, but it may be waiverable for prior service.

The Navy has an In-Service Procurement Program for JAGs (essentially sending enlisted sailors to law school and bringing them back as JAGs). I haven't heard of anything similar from the Army, but you might want to ask around or research about that.

nubcs
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Re: Veterans Thread

Postby nubcs » Wed Oct 05, 2016 8:28 am

I just wanted to comment on the whole JAG route with prior service; you might not be eligible based on how much time you already have. For the Navy side, one of the requirements to be part of JAGC IPP is less than 10 years of AD service, and less than six years if you do LEP (for officers lat transferring). Maybe it's waiverable, but some food for thought as you make your decision.




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