Veterans Thread

(Applications Advice, Letters of Recommendation . . . )
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TheJanitor6203
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Re: Veterans Thread

Postby TheJanitor6203 » Sat Jul 26, 2014 8:58 pm

zVo wrote:For those of you who do intend to apply for JAG,
why do you want to become a JAG officer?

I'm starting LS next month so I'm still a ways from applying. At the moment, I do plan to apply as a backup option. I honestly may be a good option for me because I left with 9 years TIS and I figured I could retire at 21 years as a LTC if I went back and did JAG. Not too shabby.

zVo wrote:For those who do not want to rejoin the military,
why do you not want to become a JAG officer?

The only thing that holds me back is that I truly hated my experience the last few years I was in the Army and got out with a horrible taste in my mouth that I don't want to relive again. I know JAG is COMPLETELY different than what I was doing but I can't help but think that I will still be overwhelmed by the idiocracy that is the military.

zVo wrote:I'm weighing the pros and cons myself. I'm attracted to JAG Corps because with 10 more years of active duty service and I'll have a pension and a variety of legal experience that would hopefully give me an edge in a job hunt. I don't know enough about the JAG Corps to know if it's going to increase exit options or diminish them.

I think the bolded part is true, especially if you wanted to get into general practice. I spoke with a JAG attorney before getting out. The way it was described to me, it actually sounds like a pretty cool deal. As I'm sure you know, there are many areas the JAG serve ranging from family law, criminal law, transactional, international law, and everything else in-between. The guy told me that you move from office to office every year to two years (not neccissarily a PCS because installations have different offices for different things) so you'll get experience in everything. I think this is good because if you're leaving LS and your not sure what area of law you want to practice, I'd think after doing JAG for a while, it'd be easy to narrow it down to a specialty that you really enjoy. Or you may find that you like the general practice idea.

zVo
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Re: Veterans Thread

Postby zVo » Sat Jul 26, 2014 9:15 pm

TheJanitor,

Sounds like we're in a similar situation with a similar thought process in regards to going the JAG route. I'm also right there with you with why I wouldn't go back into the military. The disorganization and bureaucratic mess that I've been exposed to makes me think that pulling my own teeth out would be a better experience than spending time as a JAG officer. However, like you said, JAG is a lot different than combat arms and I think the experience + retirement would be worth the chance of getting swept up in the idiocracy again. As you said, the varied experience you'd receive as a JAG officer would make one very diversified and possibly open up doors to other government or federal jobs.

Thanks for the response.

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FairchildFLT
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Re: Veterans Thread

Postby FairchildFLT » Sat Jul 26, 2014 11:29 pm

zVo wrote:Hey everyone,

I'm an Army CW2 helicopter pilot and I've got a few years left before I apply to law school. I've read through most of this thread and have read very little about any veterans with the intent of going back to the military as a JAG officer.

For those of you who do intend to apply for JAG,
why do you want to become a JAG officer?

For those who do not want to rejoin the military,
why do you not want to become a JAG officer?

I'm very interested in the opinions in this thread since a lot of other topics discussing JAG have little to zero experience with any branch of the military.

I'm weighing the pros and cons myself. I'm attracted to JAG Corps because with 10 more years of active duty service and I'll have a pension and a variety of legal experience that would hopefully give me an edge in a job hunt. I don't know enough about the JAG Corps to know if it's going to increase exit options or diminish them.


I sat down with my local JAG office to discuss opportunities. I was told that their best attorneys go on to serve on the Area Defense Council (ADC.) I come from a law enforcement family. My father was Security Forces and is now a member of a 3 letter agency. I don't think with my upbringing I would enjoy defending criminals day in and day out.

Also I spoke to a prior-service Air Force guy who is now Senior Council at a law firm I would not mind working at. He told me that JAG will only benefit you in the private sector if you happen to be placed in the corresponding practice while on AD. I take that to mean if I end up in the ADC, I would probably need to be a defense attorney as a civilian as well. Again, something I would not enjoy.

Also I've hated every moment of the last year and can't wait to stop dealing with all the high-ranking idiots. (Like the full bird who told one of our sergeants that the Army has more aircraft than the Air Force, and told me the GI Bill won't pay for law school.)

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ScottRiqui
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Re: Veterans Thread

Postby ScottRiqui » Sun Jul 27, 2014 10:03 am

FairchildFLT wrote:Also I've hated every moment of the last year and can't wait to stop dealing with all the high-ranking idiots. (Like the full bird who told one of our sergeants that the Army has more aircraft than the Air Force...


Interestingly, he's not that far off - the Army has a metric shit-ton of rotary-wing aircraft. Not sure where the final totals would fall if you included UAVs as well; I know the Army has 400+ RQ-7s. The Air Force has all the Predators and Reapers, though.

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TheSpanishMain
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Re: Veterans Thread

Postby TheSpanishMain » Sun Jul 27, 2014 3:22 pm

Can any vets who have been through OCI/the job hunt yet talk about how their military experience was viewed in the interviews? I have a friend who is an Army vet with a couple of deployments who felt like his service gave him a definite boost at OCI, but he also had solid grades from Columbia, so he likely would've done really well anyway.

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Coprolalia
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Re: Veterans Thread

Postby Coprolalia » Sun Jul 27, 2014 7:51 pm

.
Last edited by Coprolalia on Fri Sep 11, 2015 9:45 am, edited 1 time in total.

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ScottRiqui
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Re: Veterans Thread

Postby ScottRiqui » Sun Jul 27, 2014 8:28 pm

Coprolalia wrote:I don't think my issue has been addressed in these forums:

I am starting school while on terminal leave (ends late September). I had been hoping to use the Yellow Ribbon Program, but am apparently not eligible because I am still active duty. Am I just going to have to bite the bullet and pay for school over the max in-state cost this term? Any advice?


I think you're right - I'm finding a lot of college websites that specifically address the issue and say that you're not eligible for YRP until you're actually separated.

On another note, I don't think you'll get the monthly BAH or the books/supplies stipend associated with the Post-9/11 G.I. Bill until you're officially separated, either.

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MT Cicero
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Re: Veterans Thread

Postby MT Cicero » Sun Jul 27, 2014 10:31 pm

Coprolalia wrote:I don't think my issue has been addressed in these forums:

I am starting school while on terminal leave (ends late September). I had been hoping to use the Yellow Ribbon Program, but am apparently not eligible because I am still active duty. Am I just going to have to bite the bullet and pay for school over the max in-state cost this term? Any advice?


I addressed this with my school when I thought it was going to be an issue. They were happy to let the YRP benefit still kick in. If the G.I. Bill didn't cover the entire semester (since most schools bill by the semester and have you pay as you go), I would've been out of pocket some $$$. But they were going to apply the entire amount and reimburse me when I got them the DD214 (and subsequent YR CoE).

You will not get BAH until the day of your separation, pro-rated for that month. As far as I know, the book stipend is not tied to whether or not you are active duty. The data I've found says it doesn't matter. Just BAH.

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ScottRiqui
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Re: Veterans Thread

Postby ScottRiqui » Sun Jul 27, 2014 10:46 pm

Soco Law wrote: As far as I know, the book stipend is not tied to whether or not you are active duty. The data I've found says it doesn't matter.


This is correct - the book/supply stipend changed from only being for veterans and guard/reserve personnel to include active-duty members and eligible spouses in October of 2011, but I missed it.

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Magical Trevor
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Re: Veterans Thread

Postby Magical Trevor » Wed Jul 30, 2014 4:47 pm

Nevermind, answered elsewhere.
Last edited by Magical Trevor on Wed Jul 30, 2014 5:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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UnicornHunter
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Re: Veterans Thread

Postby UnicornHunter » Wed Jul 30, 2014 5:08 pm

Just found out that even though I have to be at school on the 15th for orientation, they won't certify till the 30th because that's technically when class begins :evil: . That's half a month of BAH lost to the ether.

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Rotor
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Re: Veterans Thread

Postby Rotor » Wed Jul 30, 2014 10:36 pm

Soco Law wrote:You will not get BAH until the day of your separation, pro-rated for that month. As far as I know, the book stipend is not tied to whether or not you are active duty. The data I've found says it doesn't matter. Just BAH.

This is correct. And although you will not be getting GI Bill BAH, you will be getting your active duty pay and actual BAH (assuming you don't have base housing or otherwise not receiving it on the day you separate).

tennactitans
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Re: Veterans Thread

Postby tennactitans » Thu Jul 31, 2014 1:27 pm

zVo wrote:Hey everyone,

I'm an Army CW2 helicopter pilot and I've got a few years left before I apply to law school. I've read through most of this thread and have read very little about any veterans with the intent of going back to the military as a JAG officer.

For those of you who do intend to apply for JAG,
why do you want to become a JAG officer?

For those who do not want to rejoin the military,
why do you not want to become a JAG officer?

I'm very interested in the opinions in this thread since a lot of other topics discussing JAG have little to zero experience with any branch of the military.

I'm weighing the pros and cons myself. I'm attracted to JAG Corps because with 10 more years of active duty service and I'll have a pension and a variety of legal experience that would hopefully give me an edge in a job hunt. I don't know enough about the JAG Corps to know if it's going to increase exit options or diminish them.


If you want to spend your remaining years processing 18-25 year olds for drug use and sexual assault, JAG is for you.

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FairchildFLT
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Re: Veterans Thread

Postby FairchildFLT » Tue Aug 05, 2014 11:04 pm

So because of a TDY I had to reschedule the LSAT to September 27th. Applications open September 1st. Should I apply the day they open, then later update with my score. Or should I just wait for my score to come in then apply. I've got a fee waiver, so even if I bomb the LSAT I would not be out of pocket. Also same situation with school, I finish two classes at the end of the month. Should I wait for LSAC to upload those and compute my GPA, or send in my application then update later. Will a month make a big difference?

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Cobretti
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Re: Veterans Thread

Postby Cobretti » Wed Aug 06, 2014 3:59 pm

FairchildFLT wrote:So because of a TDY I had to reschedule the LSAT to September 27th. Applications open September 1st. Should I apply the day they open, then later update with my score. Or should I just wait for my score to come in then apply. I've got a fee waiver, so even if I bomb the LSAT I would not be out of pocket. Also same situation with school, I finish two classes at the end of the month. Should I wait for LSAC to upload those and compute my GPA, or send in my application then update later. Will a month make a big difference?

won't make a difference, anything before thanksgiving is an early app. you might as well just wait to have a complete app because they wont actually review it til they have your LSAT anyway. GL

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FairchildFLT
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Re: Veterans Thread

Postby FairchildFLT » Wed Aug 06, 2014 5:07 pm

Cobretti wrote:
FairchildFLT wrote:So because of a TDY I had to reschedule the LSAT to September 27th. Applications open September 1st. Should I apply the day they open, then later update with my score. Or should I just wait for my score to come in then apply. I've got a fee waiver, so even if I bomb the LSAT I would not be out of pocket. Also same situation with school, I finish two classes at the end of the month. Should I wait for LSAC to upload those and compute my GPA, or send in my application then update later. Will a month make a big difference?

won't make a difference, anything before thanksgiving is an early app. you might as well just wait to have a complete app because they wont actually review it til they have your LSAT anyway. GL


Dope thanks for the info.

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SemperLegal
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Re: Veterans Thread

Postby SemperLegal » Thu Aug 14, 2014 4:42 pm

CPL Rob Richards was found dead. He was famous for being the 1/2 piss sniper but he was also a good dude. His explanation of the event struck a cord with me regarding the differences between Mr Legal and Sgt. Legal.

http://bcove.me/635pucpd

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Decimus
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Re: Veterans Thread

Postby Decimus » Thu Aug 14, 2014 5:55 pm

FairchildFLT wrote:
zVo wrote:Hey everyone,

I'm an Army CW2 helicopter pilot and I've got a few years left before I apply to law school. I've read through most of this thread and have read very little about any veterans with the intent of going back to the military as a JAG officer.

For those of you who do intend to apply for JAG,
why do you want to become a JAG officer?

For those who do not want to rejoin the military,
why do you not want to become a JAG officer?

I'm very interested in the opinions in this thread since a lot of other topics discussing JAG have little to zero experience with any branch of the military.

I'm weighing the pros and cons myself. I'm attracted to JAG Corps because with 10 more years of active duty service and I'll have a pension and a variety of legal experience that would hopefully give me an edge in a job hunt. I don't know enough about the JAG Corps to know if it's going to increase exit options or diminish them.


I sat down with my local JAG office to discuss opportunities. I was told that their best attorneys go on to serve on the Area Defense Council (ADC.) I come from a law enforcement family. My father was Security Forces and is now a member of a 3 letter agency. I don't think with my upbringing I would enjoy defending criminals day in and day out.

Also I spoke to a prior-service Air Force guy who is now Senior Council at a law firm I would not mind working at. He told me that JAG will only benefit you in the private sector if you happen to be placed in the corresponding practice while on AD. I take that to mean if I end up in the ADC, I would probably need to be a defense attorney as a civilian as well. Again, something I would not enjoy.

Also I've hated every moment of the last year and can't wait to stop dealing with all the high-ranking idiots. (Like the full bird who told one of our sergeants that the Army has more aircraft than the Air Force, and told me the GI Bill won't pay for law school.)


I have known several JAGs now who did a couple tours and pulled the cord (JAG corps politics is unbelievable and spending 3 years straight processing SA cases just plain blows). They're uniformly struggling getting jobs they are well qualified for, even in gov jobs. If you're pretty certain you want to be a lifer, give it some long thought. But I would absolutely not count on an easy lateral after a tour or two.

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TheSpanishMain
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Re: Veterans Thread

Postby TheSpanishMain » Fri Aug 15, 2014 10:22 pm

Decimus wrote:I have known several JAGs now who did a couple tours and pulled the cord (JAG corps politics is unbelievable and spending 3 years straight processing SA cases just plain blows). They're uniformly struggling getting jobs they are well qualified for, even in gov jobs. If you're pretty certain you want to be a lifer, give it some long thought. But I would absolutely not count on an easy lateral after a tour or two.


Interesting. I wonder if it's because JAGs have a hard time developing ties to a geographic region given the PCS cycle. I had heard from several government attorneys that JAG experience is viewed favorably, though.

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haus
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Re: Veterans Thread

Postby haus » Sat Aug 16, 2014 9:20 am

TheSpanishMain wrote:
Decimus wrote:I have known several JAGs now who did a couple tours and pulled the cord (JAG corps politics is unbelievable and spending 3 years straight processing SA cases just plain blows). They're uniformly struggling getting jobs they are well qualified for, even in gov jobs. If you're pretty certain you want to be a lifer, give it some long thought. But I would absolutely not count on an easy lateral after a tour or two.


Interesting. I wonder if it's because JAGs have a hard time developing ties to a geographic region given the PCS cycle. I had heard from several government attorneys that JAG experience is viewed favorably, though.

I suspect that many gov agencies do view JAG experience favorably, but in large part hiring at gov agencies has been anemic at best due to funding being restricted.

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TheSpanishMain
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Re: Veterans Thread

Postby TheSpanishMain » Mon Aug 18, 2014 10:13 pm

haus wrote:
TheSpanishMain wrote:
Decimus wrote:I have known several JAGs now who did a couple tours and pulled the cord (JAG corps politics is unbelievable and spending 3 years straight processing SA cases just plain blows). They're uniformly struggling getting jobs they are well qualified for, even in gov jobs. If you're pretty certain you want to be a lifer, give it some long thought. But I would absolutely not count on an easy lateral after a tour or two.


Interesting. I wonder if it's because JAGs have a hard time developing ties to a geographic region given the PCS cycle. I had heard from several government attorneys that JAG experience is viewed favorably, though.

I suspect that many gov agencies do view JAG experience favorably, but in large part hiring at gov agencies has been anemic at best due to funding being restricted.


Sure, but that affects everyone applying for government jobs. It's not specific to ex-JAGs.

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Decimus
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Re: Veterans Thread

Postby Decimus » Tue Aug 19, 2014 5:34 pm

TheSpanishMain wrote:
haus wrote:
TheSpanishMain wrote:
Decimus wrote:I have known several JAGs now who did a couple tours and pulled the cord (JAG corps politics is unbelievable and spending 3 years straight processing SA cases just plain blows). They're uniformly struggling getting jobs they are well qualified for, even in gov jobs. If you're pretty certain you want to be a lifer, give it some long thought. But I would absolutely not count on an easy lateral after a tour or two.


Interesting. I wonder if it's because JAGs have a hard time developing ties to a geographic region given the PCS cycle. I had heard from several government attorneys that JAG experience is viewed favorably, though.

I suspect that many gov agencies do view JAG experience favorably, but in large part hiring at gov agencies has been anemic at best due to funding being restricted.


Sure, but that affects everyone applying for government jobs. It's not specific to ex-JAGs.


The gouge given to me was that the longer you stay as a JAG, the less marketable you are to anyone (including gov).

ArcticDeckie
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Re: Veterans Thread

Postby ArcticDeckie » Fri Aug 22, 2014 10:22 am

Looks like I'll be lurking in this thread for another year: I'm living the TLS mantra of 'retake, reapply'. Got a four point bump on the June LSAT to 166 and signed up for September (my last shot), so I'll see where that gets me in the DC area with a 3.4x. It feels weird to be applying all over again, but I need to see what those four points can do for me. Hopefully September will yield even more.

Anyone else doing the same?

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SemperLegal
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Re: Veterans Thread

Postby SemperLegal » Fri Aug 22, 2014 10:39 am

ArcticDeckie wrote:Looks like I'll be lurking in this thread for another year: I'm living the TLS mantra of 'retake, reapply'. Got a four point bump on the June LSAT to 166 and signed up for September (my last shot), so I'll see where that gets me in the DC area with a 3.4x. It feels weird to be applying all over again, but I need to see what those four points can do for me. Hopefully September will yield even more.

Anyone else doing the same?



Not doing the same, but a similar bump got me from Fordham only to Berkeley/NU/GU. You are doing the right thing.

Dondarrion
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Re: Veterans Thread

Postby Dondarrion » Sat Aug 23, 2014 3:18 am

So studying on deployment is damn near impossible.

Luckily I'm not taking the LSAT until June '15 but I wish I had more time.




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