Veterans Thread

(Applications Advice, Letters of Recommendation . . . )
uvandy
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Re: Veterans Thread

Postby uvandy » Tue Feb 25, 2014 5:40 pm

Naja wrote:I know my chances of getting into law school are slim to none with my past being what it is, but if anyone here has any suggestions, words of advice or guidance on what my path should be over the next 2 years before applying to law school, please let me know. Am I a lost cause? Am I wasting my time on a dream that is unobtainable because of a dark life that happened a decade ago? I have sugar plum dreams of attending a T14 school, but based on my GPA alone, I think I would be hard pressed to even get into a Non-ABA law school once I finish my undergrad.

Lost and scared, but hopeful

Tom

Welcome to the board. Hopefully you will find the advice you need. What do you want to do with a JD? Places like Cooley accept anyone with a pulse, but you will be unemployed with mounds of debt when you graduate. A good law school is not a lost cause but it's an uphill battle. Finish your undergrad on a strong note. You'll get to write an addendum explaining your situation, but it will not dismiss your GPA. Also get LOR's from professors who can write about your academic strengths. Obviously you need to study your ass off for the LSAT. Make it count. Someone this cycle got accepted at UT with a 2.XX but 170+ LSAT, so it can be done. Good luck.

nontrad2014
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Re: Veterans Thread

Postby nontrad2014 » Tue Feb 25, 2014 9:47 pm

uvandy wrote:
Naja wrote:I know my chances of getting into law school are slim to none with my past being what it is, but if anyone here has any suggestions, words of advice or guidance on what my path should be over the next 2 years before applying to law school, please let me know. Am I a lost cause? Am I wasting my time on a dream that is unobtainable because of a dark life that happened a decade ago? I have sugar plum dreams of attending a T14 school, but based on my GPA alone, I think I would be hard pressed to even get into a Non-ABA law school once I finish my undergrad.

Lost and scared, but hopeful

Tom

Tom,
All is not lost. I am not shooting for T-14, never was, so I'll give you my two cents. I am at a non-ABA, 2L, but leaving for a traditional school in the fall (I'll be starting over as a 1L). I have many friends in other schools, many T-14, and we often bounce class questions off one another. Even my non-ABA curriculum is par, like all schools, but par is not sufficient for what I want in the future.

With that said many non-ABA school's would take you tomorrow.

My opinion is outside the T-14 you have to think regionally. You attend a school in a location (state) you plan to practice. However, if like me you may have no idea where you plan to practice and might never wish to practice in the US (I plan to leave the US again after graduation). Ultimately I may attend school in the south, but practice in the NW. I would likely be better served attending school in the NW, but again, finances and other factors come into play; plus, I have a 2.4 GPA and 152 LSAT so I am fighting an uphill battle. Regardless of the school, how well you network and sell yourself will ultimately lead to success or failure.

One of my classmates from high school graduated from Cooley Law and was elected District Attorney as her first job out of school.

Keep in mind this is my opinion and we all have different strategies and approaches. I prefer attending part-time so I can spend time with my family and also flip houses. I anticipate making less money as an attorney, should I choose to practice, than I do now, but I am ok with that. I also don't want big firm (not a rat race guy anymore), but rather public service. If I wanted biglaw I would have to spend 6+ months studying and retake the LSAT, postpone school, and reapply next cycle. Because of the drastic (about 50%) reduction in law school applicants since 2010 many schools have started correcting for that. With my low scores I am still able to attend a T-2 (hail mary) T3 or T4 in the fall. That may not be the case in a year or two as I suspect schools will cut class sizes. However, simply know you can attend law school and won't have to attend a for profit school (to each their own).

I also don't give much weight to rankings. I look at law school's with a two pronged approach: 1.) 50% the school (taking into account advanced courses offered, externships, fellowships, etc.) and 2.) 50% a place I would be happy living and raising my family. If I had to choose between a T-2 in a shitty location and a T3/4 in a great location where I could surf daily I'd take T3/4. I have a brutal cycle so won't have many opportunities, but I am ok with that. If you ever want to chat feel free to contact me, simply know all is not lost.

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Magical Trevor
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Re: Veterans Thread

Postby Magical Trevor » Wed Feb 26, 2014 2:18 am

nontrad2014 wrote:One of my classmates from high school graduated from Cooley Law and was elected District Attorney as her first job out of school.


I'm going to call bullshit on this. Please, for the love of all that is holy, provide proof that I am incorrect.

As for you, Tom, you aren't aced out of all decent schools with that low a GPA, but you are going to need an excellent LSAT to even have a shot. Carefully consider the amount of money you are going to spend on law school, get on http://www.lawschooltransparency.com/, and balance the school cost with the risk of not becoming a lawyer. I'm betting you want biglaw considering your desire to attend a t14.

To use Cooley as an example, http://www.lstscorereports.com/?school=cooley, do you want to pay $183k for a 1.2% chance at biglaw?

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FairchildFLT
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Re: Veterans Thread

Postby FairchildFLT » Wed Feb 26, 2014 2:37 am

Magical Trevor wrote:
nontrad2014 wrote:One of my classmates from high school graduated from Cooley Law and was elected District Attorney as her first job out of school.


I'm going to call bullshit on this. Please, for the love of all that is holy, provide proof that I am incorrect.

As for you, Tom, you aren't aced out of all decent schools with that low a GPA, but you are going to need an excellent LSAT to even have a shot. Carefully consider the amount of money you are going to spend on law school, get on http://www.lawschooltransparency.com/, and balance the school cost with the risk of not becoming a lawyer. I'm betting you want biglaw considering your desire to attend a t14.

To use Cooley as an example, http://www.lstscorereports.com/?school=cooley, do you want to pay $183k for a 1.2% chance at biglaw?


Ok here is a question, what exactly is biglaw? Is that determined by number of lawyers, salary, or prestige? Is your salary going to be commensurate with what kind of law you practice, i.e. biglaw vs. smalllaw? What is there other than biglaw? Is it small, medium, then biglaw? What would say is an average salary break down between the tiers? So many questions!

nontrad2014
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Re: Veterans Thread

Postby nontrad2014 » Wed Feb 26, 2014 2:47 am

Magical Trevor wrote:
nontrad2014 wrote:One of my classmates from high school graduated from Cooley Law and was elected District Attorney as her first job out of school.


I'm going to call bullshit on this. Please, for the love of all that is holy, provide proof that I am incorrect.


http://thepillar.cooley.edu/student-lif ... weigh-in-2
http://www.luzernecounty.org/county/row ... t_attorney

It's ok, I have no skin in the game. Just want you to have your proof that even schools often frowned upon put out great minds.

uvandy
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Re: Veterans Thread

Postby uvandy » Wed Feb 26, 2014 3:38 am

Every school has success stories. Cooley is no exception but they are rare. According to lawschooltransparency.com, less than 25% of Cooley grads are employed as full-time lawyers. That's not just biglaw. That's any kind of attorney. Do you want to spend 3 years of your life plus serious debt (Cooley contributes only $700 to YRP) for a 25% chance of practicing law?

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Magical Trevor
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Re: Veterans Thread

Postby Magical Trevor » Wed Feb 26, 2014 4:54 am

nontrad2014 wrote:
Magical Trevor wrote:
nontrad2014 wrote:One of my classmates from high school graduated from Cooley Law and was elected District Attorney as her first job out of school.


I'm going to call bullshit on this. Please, for the love of all that is holy, provide proof that I am incorrect.


--LinkRemoved--
http://www.luzernecounty.org/county/row ... t_attorney

It's ok, I have no skin in the game. Just want you to have your proof that even schools often frowned upon put out great minds.


I'm going to stick with calling bullshit. The first article you posted indicates it wasn't her first job and she didn't get it until 3 years after she graduated. And, if you read about the election, she won because the incumbent had a huge scandal.

For every story like hers, there are hundreds of graduates who left Cooley with hundreds of thousands of dollars of debt and no realistic chance of ever working as a lawyer.

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TheSpanishMain
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Re: Veterans Thread

Postby TheSpanishMain » Wed Feb 26, 2014 9:27 am

Magical Trevor wrote:For every story like hers, there are hundreds of graduates who left Cooley with hundreds of thousands of dollars of debt and no realistic chance of ever working as a lawyer.


This x 1000. Of course you can find Cooley success stories. No one is saying it's impossible. It's just really, really unlikely and a really, really retarded gamble to make with your future.

nontrad2014 wrote:Keep in mind this is my opinion and we all have different strategies and approaches. I prefer attending part-time so I can spend time with my family and also flip houses. I anticipate making less money as an attorney, should I choose to practice, than I do now, but I am ok with that. I also don't want big firm (not a rat race guy anymore), but rather public service. If I wanted biglaw I would have to spend 6+ months studying and retake the LSAT, postpone school, and reapply next cycle. Because of the drastic (about 50%) reduction in law school applicants since 2010 many schools have started correcting for that. With my low scores I am still able to attend a T-2 (hail mary) T3 or T4 in the fall. That may not be the case in a year or two as I suspect schools will cut class sizes. However, simply know you can attend law school and won't have to attend a for profit school (to each their own).


You want public service but you're also going to leave the US? Why are you getting a degree that allows you, in theory, to practice US law? I'm not trying to shit on you or anything, but I just don't get how you concluded that a T2 law degree, especially in an area where you don't have ties, was a good investment, especially when you acknowledge you won't have many opportunities. I just don't get it. Why not spend the three four years training for something where you will have decent opportunities? You sound like you're not even sure you'll attempt to practice. Law school is a big investment of time and money for "well, I guess I might try to do this later if I feel like it, or not. Whatever."

nontrad2014
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Re: Veterans Thread

Postby nontrad2014 » Thu Feb 27, 2014 12:41 am

Magical Trevor wrote:
nontrad2014 wrote:
Magical Trevor wrote:
nontrad2014 wrote:One of my classmates from high school graduated from Cooley Law and was elected District Attorney as her first job out of school.


I'm going to call bullshit on this. Please, for the love of all that is holy, provide proof that I am incorrect.


--LinkRemoved--
http://www.luzernecounty.org/county/row ... t_attorney

It's ok, I have no skin in the game. Just want you to have your proof that even schools often frowned upon put out great minds.


I'm going to stick with calling bullshit. The first article you posted indicates it wasn't her first job and she didn't get it until 3 years after she graduated. And, if you read about the election, she won because the incumbent had a huge scandal.

For every story like hers, there are hundreds of graduates who left Cooley with hundreds of thousands of dollars of debt and no realistic chance of ever working as a lawyer.


Trevor,
Not really sure what your goal is here, but we are all on the same team. We all want one another to succeed and make sound decisions. I simply used my friend as an example of a Cooley grad because you used Cooley in regards to biglaw (DA and biglaw not the same in my opinion, but $ wise it is). I know her story and how she won because I grew up there, and her family was like my 2nd family so I know the details. She walked into a perfect situation where most of the counties elective officials were put out/incarcerated, etc. because of fraud. Many of the news stories were wrong, which happens daily, but she is not the issue to be addressed. We each have opinions about schools; rightfully, all entitled to have them, but regarding the poster from above this banter doesn't help him. For that I am sorry and move on.

I agree anyone should do a detailed analysis and use many sources before making a difficult and expensive commitment. Luckily, many of us have VA benefits that can defray the costs associated with school.

nontrad2014
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Re: Veterans Thread

Postby nontrad2014 » Thu Feb 27, 2014 1:19 am

nontrad2014 wrote:Keep in mind this is my opinion and we all have different strategies and approaches. I prefer attending part-time so I can spend time with my family and also flip houses. I anticipate making less money as an attorney, should I choose to practice, than I do now, but I am ok with that. I also don't want big firm (not a rat race guy anymore), but rather public service. If I wanted biglaw I would have to spend 6+ months studying and retake the LSAT, postpone school, and reapply next cycle. Because of the drastic (about 50%) reduction in law school applicants since 2010 many schools have started correcting for that. With my low scores I am still able to attend a T-2 (hail mary) T3 or T4 in the fall. That may not be the case in a year or two as I suspect schools will cut class sizes. However, simply know you can attend law school and won't have to attend a for profit school (to each their own).


You want public service but you're also going to leave the US? Why are you getting a degree that allows you, in theory, to practice US law? I'm not trying to shit on you or anything, but I just don't get how you concluded that a T2 law degree, especially in an area where you don't have ties, was a good investment, especially when you acknowledge you won't have many opportunities. I just don't get it. Why not spend the three four years training for something where you will have decent opportunities? You sound like you're not even sure you'll attempt to practice. Law school is a big investment of time and money for "well, I guess I might try to do this later if I feel like it, or not. Whatever."[/quote]
Rafi,
Fair points. For me public service doesn't stop at the border. After getting out of the military I moved to Canada and then spent 12 months working in remote medical clinics in the Dominican Republic. The time I spent working with the Dominican and Haitian people opened my eyes and heart to not only third world problems, but US problems. Seeing the broken and flawed adoption process fueled the fire I had for the law (in order to find a solution). That experience led me to volunteer as a Guardian ad Litem (GAL) in dependency court here in Florida. I am fortunate because I have seen the good and the ugly in regards to dependency court and some adoption cases. My JD will be used, but likely from outside the US. My dream is to streamline the adoption process, not treat children like animals at the shelter that can be shopped for, and allow people to adopt desolate children without being discriminated against based on their ideological or religious beliefs. That is public service to me, but also so is working policy for the FDA (who has foreign offices).

No worries about not wanting to shit on me or anything (no offense taken and none will be). The study of law provides many positive qualities for daily life aside from employment: contracts and clauses in medical records at doctors offices, real estate contracting, rental agreements, vaccine exemptions for my family, understanding how and why our country functions, etc. It's a no brainer when 1.) I enjoy it, 2.) don't have to pay for it, and 3.) it will help other people.

As far as opportunities: I try to remain cognizant of them. I don't plan to rely on a school or name (sure, I will take the help if available), but rather network and piggy back off of whoever I can. As I mentioned I am a 2L at a non-ABA, but starting over because it is handicapping me. They simply lack the advanced courses I need, plus other issues. I needed the exposure to ensure my brain/body had healed well enough to return to school. Thankfully it has, not 100% and may never be, but well enough to succeed in law school.

This is simply my opinion and some of my experiences.

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Magical Trevor
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Re: Veterans Thread

Postby Magical Trevor » Thu Feb 27, 2014 1:21 am

TheSpanishMain wrote:
Magical Trevor wrote:For every story like hers, there are hundreds of graduates who left Cooley with hundreds of thousands of dollars of debt and no realistic chance of ever working as a lawyer.


This x 1000. Of course you can find Cooley success stories. No one is saying it's impossible. It's just really, really unlikely and a really, really retarded gamble to make with your future.


This is my goal here. There is no way to make a shit-tastic school like Cooley seem like a reasonable option without being deceptive, which means we certainly aren't on the same team.

If you know all the details of your friend's story, then you know she didn't graduate Cooley and get elected as a DA immediately as her first job. You know that she fell into the only circumstances that would allow even the slightest chance at winning an election, and you know that in spite of the incredible scandal your friend only won by a small margin. The issue isn't your friend, it's the fact that you are posting information that isn't entirely accurate while suggesting that isolated cases of success demonstrate that it's not a terrible idea to attend a given school.

Going to a law school with a 20% chance of ever becoming a practicing lawyer is not a sound decision.

Frankly, as TheSpanishMain posted above, I just don't understand how you are reaching some of the conclusions you hold with respect to legal education.

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Re: Veterans Thread

Postby nontrad2014 » Thu Feb 27, 2014 1:43 am

Magical Trevor wrote:
TheSpanishMain wrote:
Magical Trevor wrote:For every story like hers, there are hundreds of graduates who left Cooley with hundreds of thousands of dollars of debt and no realistic chance of ever working as a lawyer.


This x 1000. Of course you can find Cooley success stories. No one is saying it's impossible. It's just really, really unlikely and a really, really retarded gamble to make with your future.


This is my goal here. There is no way to make a shit-tastic school like Cooley seem like a reasonable option without being deceptive, which means we certainly aren't on the same team.

If you know all the details of your friend's story, then you know she didn't graduate Cooley and get elected as a DA immediately as her first job. You know that she fell into the only circumstances that would allow even the slightest chance at winning an election, and you know that in spite of the incredible scandal your friend only won by a small margin. The issue isn't your friend, it's the fact that you are posting information that isn't entirely accurate while suggesting that isolated cases of success demonstrate that it's not a terrible idea to attend a given school.

Going to a law school with a 20% chance of ever becoming a practicing lawyer is not a sound decision.

Frankly, as TheSpanishMain posted above, I just don't understand how you are reaching some of the conclusions you hold with respect to legal education.


Actually, it was her first job after law school. She left school, returned to PA and studied until she passed the bar (took her a couple attempts), and was interviewing in other states and Australia. She was debating what to do until, as luck and crime would have it, the perfect opportunity for DA happened. That process took a while (another extended period where she wasn't working because she was in election mode). We could argue this all day, but it accomplishes nothing.

I am not promoting Cooley, I wouldn't want to go there, but that doesn't mean it's wrong for everyone. Again, referring to the poster above, he wanted to know if law could be an option. The answer is yes. As far as giving an example of an isolated case of success as demonstrative that it's not a terrible idea to attend a given school...not at all what I was doing. Rather, I was defending a generalization made about a given school by providing an example of someone who attended said school, achieved great employment, and was not helped or hindered by the name of the school.

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heythatslife
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Re: Veterans Thread

Postby heythatslife » Thu Feb 27, 2014 1:53 am

Oh so for 3 years she was unemployed? That's even worse.

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Magical Trevor
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Re: Veterans Thread

Postby Magical Trevor » Thu Feb 27, 2014 2:10 am

nontrad2014 wrote:Actually, it was her first job after law school. She left school, returned to PA and studied until she passed the bar (took her a couple attempts), and was interviewing in other states and Australia. She was debating what to do until, as luck and crime would have it, the perfect opportunity for DA happened.


From http://thepillar.cooley.edu/student-lif ... weigh-in-2, which you posted:

"After graduating from Thomas M. Cooley Law School, I made the decision to return home to Luzerne County where my closest family and friends resided. I began my profession by opening my own practice and working part-time as an insurance defense attorney for one of the nation’s leading insurance carriers." Her words, not mine, as quoted from the link above.

So actually, it wasn't her first job.

So let's nail down some details of the success story you are using to "defend a generalization." First, your friend graduated in May of 2009 after making the Dean's List and Honor roll. Then she failed the bar. Then she opened her own practice, where she spent almost two years before running in May of 2011. She won by a narrow margin only because the incumbent was involved in a scandal where a couple of thousand juveniles, denied any legal representation, were traded into privately run juvenile corrections facilities for cash.

That's not a success story. That's the story of someone limping along before being granted an incredibly unlikely opportunity. In fact, you've likely found the only story of a Cooley graduate to ever experience these particular circumstances. You cannot use an incredible outlier to subvert the commonly held belief that attending Cooley is not a sound decision.

http://citizensvoice.com/arts-living/2. ... s-1.117707
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/robert-ko ... 70313.html
Last edited by Magical Trevor on Thu Feb 27, 2014 2:13 am, edited 1 time in total.

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patogordo
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Re: Veterans Thread

Postby patogordo » Thu Feb 27, 2014 2:12 am

oh my god, who cares

people just use "cooley" as a catch-all to refer to "law schools that are almost certainly not worth the cost"

ok so one person graduated from cooley and became president of antigua sure whatever. missing the point entirely.

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TheSpanishMain
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Re: Veterans Thread

Postby TheSpanishMain » Thu Feb 27, 2014 8:03 am

nontrad2014 wrote:
This is simply my opinion and some of my experiences.


I don't doubt that you're motivated by a sincere desire to help people abroad overcome immigration/adoption hurdles (I think that's what you were getting at) but I don't understand how a US law degree helps you do that in Canada/the Dominican Republic/Balouchistan/wherever. Sure, you can go there and volunteer in a clinic or whatever, and that's wonderful, but why get a law degree first? If you want to do international aid work, a law degree makes no sense. If you move to Canada, you aren't going to find employment as a lawyer because, well, it's Canada and your degree allows you to practice US law in US courts.

I suppose if you aren't paying for your degree and you aren't depending on it as a source of income, then sure, yeah, get a free law degree as a hobby just because you find it interesting/rewarding. Just understand that the vast majority of people on TLS hope to find legal work and make that their primary source of income, so they're pretty concerned with employment outcomes. You may just have a completely different calculus here.

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Re: Veterans Thread

Postby nontrad2014 » Thu Feb 27, 2014 12:06 pm

TheSpanishMain wrote:
nontrad2014 wrote:
This is simply my opinion and some of my experiences.


I don't doubt that you're motivated by a sincere desire to help people abroad overcome immigration/adoption hurdles (I think that's what you were getting at) but I don't understand how a US law degree helps you do that in Canada/the Dominican Republic/Balouchistan/wherever. Sure, you can go there and volunteer in a clinic or whatever, and that's wonderful, but why get a law degree first? If you want to do international aid work, a law degree makes no sense. If you move to Canada, you aren't going to find employment as a lawyer because, well, it's Canada and your degree allows you to practice US law in US courts.

I suppose if you aren't paying for your degree and you aren't depending on it as a source of income, then sure, yeah, get a free law degree as a hobby just because you find it interesting/rewarding. Just understand that the vast majority of people on TLS hope to find legal work and make that their primary source of income, so they're pretty concerned with employment outcomes. You may just have a completely different calculus here.


Having a US law degree helps with practicing in other countries. As long as someone goes through the proper channels and is certified to practice in that country, they can be a lawyer there (also teach), but also in US jurisdiction ( as long as they maintain their status). Example: JAG stationed in germany retires, but decides to stay in country. He requests permission to practice to Germany, subsequently is approved, and opens an office outside base. That lawyer has options.

As far as a law degree helping: someone has to navigate the channels for non-profits and deal with other countries policy. With a law degree I would hope I can expand my ability to help by not being limited to dispensing medication or playing with the kids, but rather improving the grant process and other important areas to keep these businesses/organizations running. As far as Canada, many of their lawyers have gone to school in the US because Canada has few schools. In British Columbia they have one school, UBC. It's easier to attend a US school and cheaper. My wife is Canadian so is would be easier for me to be able to practice in Canada (immigration first and professional recognition second) should we ever return.

It would be nice if law does provide my primary source of income, but I can't rely on that, and therefore maintain contingency plans. We have an abundance of lawyers in the States, that is going to shift over the next few years, though, which is good for future grads. However, I think many people need to be realistic about their expected employment outcome and ensure they can sustain themselves and their families post graduation (which I believe is what you and others here are helping people understand).

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TheSpanishMain
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Re: Veterans Thread

Postby TheSpanishMain » Fri Feb 28, 2014 9:39 am

nontrad2014 wrote:Having a US law degree helps with practicing in other countries. As long as someone goes through the proper channels and is certified to practice in that country, they can be a lawyer there (also teach), but also in US jurisdiction ( as long as they maintain their status). Example: JAG stationed in germany retires, but decides to stay in country. He requests permission to practice to Germany, subsequently is approved, and opens an office outside base. That lawyer has options.


That lawyer also has 20+ years experience. He's not just trying to hang a shingle in a foreign country right out of law school with no connections.
As far as a law degree helping: someone has to navigate the channels for non-profits and deal with other countries policy. With a law degree I would hope I can expand my ability to help by not being limited to dispensing medication or playing with the kids, but rather improving the grant process and other important areas to keep these businesses/organizations running. As far as Canada, many of their lawyers have gone to school in the US because Canada has few schools. In British Columbia they have one school, UBC. It's easier to attend a US school and cheaper. My wife is Canadian so is would be easier for me to be able to practice in Canada (immigration first and professional recognition second) should we ever return.


The thing is, you don't need to go to law school to be a grant writer. I'm not suggesting your goals are bad; they're not. A law degree could conceivably get you there. It's just a weirdly indirect, inefficient, unnecessarily expensive route if you want to work in some kind of administrative role in an aid organization. AS far as practicing law in Canada, I suppose that makes sense. I know a lot of Canadian students do study in the US. Again, though, it's just a weirdly inefficient path to being a Canadian lawyer. I admit I don't know what the legal market is like in Canada, but I can't imagine a student who studied US law at a non-prestigious institution randomly showing up in Canada and hanging a shingle is going to be rolling in business.

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MT Cicero
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Re: Veterans Thread

Postby MT Cicero » Sun Mar 02, 2014 2:02 pm

I just started getting curious about the patent bar, and now I wonder about possibly having eligibility. Some questions:

-Does anyone have good data on folks they know who became eligible without having a technical degree? I have a finance degree, but I enlisted in electronic communications. My tech school was almost a year long and earned me enough credits for a CCAF degree in applied science, emphasis on electronic technology (Electronic Principles at 19 semester hours & Satellite, Wideband & Telemetry Systems at unknown semester hours). I then worked in that fairly technical field for 1.5 years before commissioning.

-With the current time between now and the start of law school in the fall, would it make sense to shoot to take that test towards the end of the summer?

-Does anyone know how much semester credit in technical courses would be required? I had written this off in my mind based on lack of knowledge, but looking over the GRB, I could fit into a Category B with military technical courses. I believe I'd be looking at >45-50 semester hours worth (currently hunting down documentation).

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patogordo
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Re: Veterans Thread

Postby patogordo » Sun Mar 02, 2014 3:39 pm

intelproplaw forums might be better for this question. although eligibility through coursework is kind of a black box. only way to find out is to submit.

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Re: Veterans Thread

Postby J-e-L-L-o » Sun Mar 02, 2014 4:00 pm

Soco Law wrote:I just started getting curious about the patent bar, and now I wonder about possibly having eligibility. Some questions:

-Does anyone have good data on folks they know who became eligible without having a technical degree? I have a finance degree, but I enlisted in electronic communications. My tech school was almost a year long and earned me enough credits for a CCAF degree in applied science, emphasis on electronic technology (Electronic Principles at 19 semester hours & Satellite, Wideband & Telemetry Systems at unknown semester hours). I then worked in that fairly technical field for 1.5 years before commissioning.

-With the current time between now and the start of law school in the fall, would it make sense to shoot to take that test towards the end of the summer?

-Does anyone know how much semester credit in technical courses would be required? I had written this off in my mind based on lack of knowledge, but looking over the GRB, I could fit into a Category B with military technical courses. I believe I'd be looking at >45-50 semester hours worth (currently hunting down documentation).


Military credits don't count unless they are equivalent to university courses. Equivalent means that if you enroll in an institution, they will give you course credit. Although tech school gives you some experience, they are fairly limited and really don't count towards courses that are required for say an engineering degree. Most schools will give you elective credit for it and thats it.

You can check here. Just have your military transcript ready for the ACE (American Council of Education) ID numbers: http://www2.acenet.edu/militaryguide/CourseSearch.cfm

I know this because I checked mine and I was an avionics technician. I transferred to an engineering college and didn't get jack except credit for health for being in boot camp. Although your rating was more technical in the Air Force, I doubt you would get a lot of credits. Since you are gearing up to start law school, I would say don't waste your time.

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MT Cicero
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Re: Veterans Thread

Postby MT Cicero » Sun Mar 02, 2014 4:34 pm

J-e-L-L-o wrote:.


Yeah, I'll look at the equivalencies once I get my transcript. I think they'll be woefully short of what would be required. Just searching around the military equivalency site, it seems to me that I'll be looking at somewhere in the neighborhood of 9-12 semester hours at best (in a category A degree field).

I'll let this whim die as quickly as it came...

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J-e-L-L-o
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Re: Veterans Thread

Postby J-e-L-L-o » Sun Mar 02, 2014 5:09 pm

Good luck on your law school start. Hopefully I will be ready to apply in 2 years.

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graphia
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Re: Veterans Thread

Postby graphia » Sun Mar 02, 2014 6:29 pm

Soco Law wrote:I just started getting curious about the patent bar, and now I wonder about possibly having eligibility. Some questions:

-Does anyone have good data on folks they know who became eligible without having a technical degree? I have a finance degree, but I enlisted in electronic communications. My tech school was almost a year long and earned me enough credits for a CCAF degree in applied science, emphasis on electronic technology (Electronic Principles at 19 semester hours & Satellite, Wideband & Telemetry Systems at unknown semester hours). I then worked in that fairly technical field for 1.5 years before commissioning.

-With the current time between now and the start of law school in the fall, would it make sense to shoot to take that test towards the end of the summer?

-Does anyone know how much semester credit in technical courses would be required? I had written this off in my mind based on lack of knowledge, but looking over the GRB, I could fit into a Category B with military technical courses. I believe I'd be looking at >45-50 semester hours worth (currently hunting down documentation).


Fellow SATCOM guy here (well, RF Transmissions after the AFSC merger). I looked into it a while back as well and from what I read I wasn't eligible for the patent bar.

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bowser
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Re: Veterans Thread

Postby bowser » Mon Mar 03, 2014 1:29 am

Soooo.....I got my Yellow Ribbon award in the mail the other day, and they're only giving me like 15k while the school is contributing 20K total (CLS), leaving a tuition + fees balance of around 4K. What gives?




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