Veterans Thread

(Applications Advice, Letters of Recommendation . . . )
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usn26
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Re: Veterans Thread

Postby usn26 » Wed Jun 28, 2017 10:41 pm

KPUSN07 wrote:Can you submit supplemental materials - for example, FITREPS/EVALs, Awards, etc....? I'm guessing these materials would need to be mailed to the school (if allowed)?


I can't imagine any school would want or accept them. Think of it like this: they want to look at your transcript but they don't want your term paper for each A you got.

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calpolisci2016
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Re: Veterans Thread

Postby calpolisci2016 » Thu Jun 29, 2017 12:17 am

Hey everyone,

Now that I'm done with the application process and am headed to an actual law school, are there any veteran networks I can use to help me with mentoring, professional development, and career networking (Big law, govt, etc.)? Thanks.

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MT Cicero
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Re: Veterans Thread

Postby MT Cicero » Thu Jun 29, 2017 11:02 am

BlendedUnicorn wrote:
MT Cicero wrote:
navylawhopeful wrote:Hi all--Yale has historically lagged behind its peer institutions in Yellow Ribbon contributions, but I received a great update from the Yale Financial Aid office today that some of you may be interested in.

Starting this upcoming academic year, Yale will be increasing their Yellow Ribbon contribution to match Harvard & Stanford, ensuring "a vet who qualifies for 100% of the Post 9/11 GI benefit and who applies for and is eligible for Yellow Ribbon, will have 100% of tuition and mandatory fees (including health insurance) covered." Hope this is of benefit to some of you!


This is great news! I'll be updating the 2017-18 spreadsheet as soon as all the Yellow Ribbon amounts are updated on the VA site. But from the first time I collected the information in 2013-14, it's awesome how much better the schools have gotten across the board. Columbia now will be the only T14 law school that isn't completely free for 100% GI Bill vets, and that's only because their tuition jumped to outpace the GI Bill + YRP amount (which used to cover the whole shot a couple years back).


Hey, Semper hasn't posted since January and the spreadsheet on the OP is a year old- do you want me to give you the thread so you can get that stuff on the front page?


Yeah that sounds good! I'll try to get the thread all shined up. I need something to pierce the monotony that is bar prep.

KPUSN07
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Re: Veterans Thread

Postby KPUSN07 » Thu Jun 29, 2017 8:52 pm

usn26 wrote:
KPUSN07 wrote:Can you submit supplemental materials - for example, FITREPS/EVALs, Awards, etc....? I'm guessing these materials would need to be mailed to the school (if allowed)?


I can't imagine any school would want or accept them. Think of it like this: they want to look at your transcript but they don't want your term paper for each A you got.


The Awards might be over the top - but I figured the most recent FITREPs could be useful as another tool for evaluation of the candidate... Just asking the question :?:

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MT Cicero
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Re: Veterans Thread

Postby MT Cicero » Fri Jun 30, 2017 9:38 am

KPUSN07 wrote:
usn26 wrote:
KPUSN07 wrote:Can you submit supplemental materials - for example, FITREPS/EVALs, Awards, etc....? I'm guessing these materials would need to be mailed to the school (if allowed)?


I can't imagine any school would want or accept them. Think of it like this: they want to look at your transcript but they don't want your term paper for each A you got.


The Awards might be over the top - but I figured the most recent FITREPs could be useful as another tool for evaluation of the candidate... Just asking the question :?:


Nah, I wouldn't. Admissions people don't need that kind of military depth generally. And if your FITREPs are anything like the Air Force's OPR/EPRs, then they're unreadable to lay people anyway. Overall, less (or the right amount) is better in admissions. They're just not able to pour over applications like many people think.

I interviewed for my school's admissions office, and worked/chatted with them plenty. If anything, I think you need to civilianize your accomplishments as much as possible, and keep things lean. Applicants underrate succinctness and simplicity, but they are important in admissions and the law generally (except for most 1L/doctrinal tests, where profs generally want all the words you can muster).

*I'm assuming you're talking about admissions and not the USAO (which you discussed above). My answer would be the same there though.

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MT Cicero
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Re: Veterans Thread

Postby MT Cicero » Fri Jun 30, 2017 9:50 am

calpolisci2016 wrote:Hey everyone,

Now that I'm done with the application process and am headed to an actual law school, are there any veteran networks I can use to help me with mentoring, professional development, and career networking (Big law, govt, etc.)? Thanks.


Right here!

Seriously though, people in this thread can often help with general logistical questions, timing questions, and perhaps even more targeted advice if some of the folks here are in your area or familiar with it. Your school may or may not have a vets group, and if they do, they could be a good source.

As far as an aggregate vets network, there's been some attempt to cross-pollinate at the T14s in recent years (spearheaded by the Georgetown vets group, which is pretty large). Not a ton has come of it as of yet at this point, but that's mostly due to the difficulty of putting together something at which a critical mass of vets from other schools can attend.

Also, many practitioners who are vets are generally happy to grab coffee and chat. If you can get someone from your law school + vet, she/he could be a great resource.

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calpolisci2016
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Re: Veterans Thread

Postby calpolisci2016 » Fri Jun 30, 2017 4:52 pm

MT Cicero wrote:
calpolisci2016 wrote:Hey everyone,

Now that I'm done with the application process and am headed to an actual law school, are there any veteran networks I can use to help me with mentoring, professional development, and career networking (Big law, govt, etc.)? Thanks.


Right here!

Seriously though, people in this thread can often help with general logistical questions, timing questions, and perhaps even more targeted advice if some of the folks here are in your area or familiar with it. Your school may or may not have a vets group, and if they do, they could be a good source.

As far as an aggregate vets network, there's been some attempt to cross-pollinate at the T14s in recent years (spearheaded by the Georgetown vets group, which is pretty large). Not a ton has come of it as of yet at this point, but that's mostly due to the difficulty of putting together something at which a critical mass of vets from other schools can attend.

Also, many practitioners who are vets are generally happy to grab coffee and chat. If you can get someone from your law school + vet, she/he could be a great resource.


Thanks.

I guess my main question involves being a law student veteran, how OCI recruiting goes for veterans, do big law firms have programs that target veterans in an effort to increase their numbers (much in the same vein that IB firms and consulting firms do), etc. ? I'm an incoming 1L and I'm beginning to think about how I position myself throughout my first-year so I can have a good recruiting season for next summer's OCI.

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m052310
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Re: Veterans Thread

Postby m052310 » Sun Jul 02, 2017 9:41 pm

17-18 Yellow Ribbon numbers are up. http://www.benefits.va.gov/GIBILL/yello ... t_2017.asp

KPUSN07
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Re: Veterans Thread

Postby KPUSN07 » Tue Jul 04, 2017 12:18 pm

MT Cicero wrote:
KPUSN07 wrote:
usn26 wrote:
KPUSN07 wrote:Can you submit supplemental materials - for example, FITREPS/EVALs, Awards, etc....? I'm guessing these materials would need to be mailed to the school (if allowed)?


I can't imagine any school would want or accept them. Think of it like this: they want to look at your transcript but they don't want your term paper for each A you got.


The Awards might be over the top - but I figured the most recent FITREPs could be useful as another tool for evaluation of the candidate... Just asking the question :?:


Nah, I wouldn't. Admissions people don't need that kind of military depth generally. And if your FITREPs are anything like the Air Force's OPR/EPRs, then they're unreadable to lay people anyway. Overall, less (or the right amount) is better in admissions. They're just not able to pour over applications like many people think.

I interviewed for my school's admissions office, and worked/chatted with them plenty. If anything, I think you need to civilianize your accomplishments as much as possible, and keep things lean. Applicants underrate succinctness and simplicity, but they are important in admissions and the law generally (except for most 1L/doctrinal tests, where profs generally want all the words you can muster).

*I'm assuming you're talking about admissions and not the USAO (which you discussed above). My answer would be the same there though.


Thanks for the help - and look forward to reviewing the spreadsheet!

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jthel08
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Re: Veterans Thread

Postby jthel08 » Thu Jul 06, 2017 7:37 pm

Hey everyone, Army VET here,

Just a quick question... Retaking LSAT in September, any insights on what prep company is a good one to go with tried powerscore bibles but leaning towards blueprint lsat on demand online course.

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Dcc617
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Re: Veterans Thread

Postby Dcc617 » Thu Jul 06, 2017 9:37 pm

jthel08 wrote:Hey everyone, Army VET here,

Just a quick question... Retaking LSAT in September, any insights on what prep company is a good one to go with tried powerscore bibles but leaning towards blueprint lsat on demand online course.


Blueprint LSAT online course worked super well for me. I was studying while in command though,so I needed the flexible schedule.

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jthel08
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Re: Veterans Thread

Postby jthel08 » Fri Jul 07, 2017 12:55 pm

Dcc617 wrote:
jthel08 wrote:Hey everyone, Army VET here,

Just a quick question... Retaking LSAT in September, any insights on what prep company is a good one to go with tried powerscore bibles but leaning towards blueprint lsat on demand online course.


Blueprint LSAT online course worked super well for me. I was studying while in command though,so I needed the flexible schedule.


ok, was there a huge jump in your score first PT to the actual test?

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Dcc617
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Re: Veterans Thread

Postby Dcc617 » Fri Jul 07, 2017 5:22 pm

jthel08 wrote:
Dcc617 wrote:
jthel08 wrote:Hey everyone, Army VET here,

Just a quick question... Retaking LSAT in September, any insights on what prep company is a good one to go with tried powerscore bibles but leaning towards blueprint lsat on demand online course.


Blueprint LSAT online course worked super well for me. I was studying while in command though,so I needed the flexible schedule.


ok, was there a huge jump in your score first PT to the actual test?


15 point swing from my diagnostic, 11 point swing from the test I took back in 2011 (took the LSAT in 2011 and 2015). However, most of that improvement was in logic games. I sucked on them bad to start but went perfect on them in 2015.

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TheJanitor6203
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Re: Veterans Thread

Postby TheJanitor6203 » Fri Jul 07, 2017 7:50 pm

calpolisci2016 wrote:
MT Cicero wrote:
calpolisci2016 wrote:Hey everyone,

Now that I'm done with the application process and am headed to an actual law school, are there any veteran networks I can use to help me with mentoring, professional development, and career networking (Big law, govt, etc.)? Thanks.


Right here!

Seriously though, people in this thread can often help with general logistical questions, timing questions, and perhaps even more targeted advice if some of the folks here are in your area or familiar with it. Your school may or may not have a vets group, and if they do, they could be a good source.

As far as an aggregate vets network, there's been some attempt to cross-pollinate at the T14s in recent years (spearheaded by the Georgetown vets group, which is pretty large). Not a ton has come of it as of yet at this point, but that's mostly due to the difficulty of putting together something at which a critical mass of vets from other schools can attend.

Also, many practitioners who are vets are generally happy to grab coffee and chat. If you can get someone from your law school + vet, she/he could be a great resource.


Thanks.

I guess my main question involves being a law student veteran, how OCI recruiting goes for veterans, do big law firms have programs that target veterans in an effort to increase their numbers (much in the same vein that IB firms and consulting firms do), etc. ? I'm an incoming 1L and I'm beginning to think about how I position myself throughout my first-year so I can have a good recruiting season for next summer's OCI.


The best way to position yourself for a successful OCI experience is to get good grades. Being a veteran will give you a slight bump when it comes to getting screeners but it's not going to help you much. From my experience, I think being a veteran got me a few more screeners during OCI than I would've got otherwise but it definitely didn't guarantee me a job or anything like that. My GPA was just outside of the cutoff most firms were looking for so I didn't expect to get any interviews but I still got about a 1/2 dozen (which was about 1/2 dozen more than my friends with similar grades). However, I didn't get any call backs. I got the feeling that I got the screeners because I'm a veteran but they were expecting me to come in and blow their socks off in order to get a callback (which I didn't get any of).

TL;DR: Veteran status doesn't really matter to big firms. Get good grades if you want a big law job.

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jthel08
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Re: Veterans Thread

Postby jthel08 » Fri Jul 07, 2017 7:53 pm

Dcc617 wrote:
jthel08 wrote:
Dcc617 wrote:
jthel08 wrote:Hey everyone, Army VET here,

Just a quick question... Retaking LSAT in September, any insights on what prep company is a good one to go with tried powerscore bibles but leaning towards blueprint lsat on demand online course.


Blueprint LSAT online course worked super well for me. I was studying while in command though,so I needed the flexible schedule.


ok, was there a huge jump in your score first PT to the actual test?


15 point swing from my diagnostic, 11 point swing from the test I took back in 2011 (took the LSAT in 2011 and 2015). However, most of that improvement was in logic games. I sucked on them bad to start but went perfect on them in 2015.

ok, I am debating if there online, on-demand course works well enough to make a score increase. Thanks for the advice and input.

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MT Cicero
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Re: Veterans Thread

Postby MT Cicero » Tue Jul 11, 2017 10:01 pm

Just FYI, I'll be updating the GI Bill + Yellow Ribbon spreadsheet after I've taken the bar in a couple weeks. Until then, I'm deep in the game.

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Dcc617
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Re: Veterans Thread

Postby Dcc617 » Tue Jul 11, 2017 10:02 pm

MT Cicero wrote:Just FYI, I'll be updating the GI Bill + Yellow Ribbon spreadsheet after I've taken the bar in a couple weeks. Until then, I'm deep in the game.


You're an actual saint.

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TheJanitor6203
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Re: Veterans Thread

Postby TheJanitor6203 » Tue Jul 11, 2017 10:51 pm

MT Cicero wrote:Just FYI, I'll be updating the GI Bill + Yellow Ribbon spreadsheet after I've taken the bar in a couple weeks. Until then, I'm deep in the game.

What bar are you taking? I'm over this studying thing. My mind is turning to mush.

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MT Cicero
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Re: Veterans Thread

Postby MT Cicero » Wed Jul 12, 2017 8:10 pm

TheJanitor6203 wrote:
MT Cicero wrote:Just FYI, I'll be updating the GI Bill + Yellow Ribbon spreadsheet after I've taken the bar in a couple weeks. Until then, I'm deep in the game.

What bar are you taking? I'm over this studying thing. My mind is turning to mush.


Illinois. Themis prep company.

ScamMan101
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Question

Postby ScamMan101 » Sat Jul 15, 2017 2:23 am

Hello... I began my undergraduate education in 2010. After a series of offenses with the institution I was attending I was expelled from the California State School System fucking tragic I know.

Well I thought my life was over and after about 6 months of being horribly depressed I decided to join the military. Being in the military had a huge impact on me and over the course of my service I never had any issues quite the contrary I had an impeccable record and tons of acknowledgments. Fast forward to 2016 I got out and transferred to a fairly prestigious UC. I completely disclosed everything that happened and after a couple interviews I was admitted.

I have a 3.65 GPA and a 170 LSAT.

My question is how much is this expulsion from my original undergraduate institution going to impact me. Am I capable of getting admitting into a T14? I have strong letters of Rec. My GPA and LSAT are not the best and without the expulsion I think being a veteran would give me a little boost. Does anyone have experience applying with a blemish on their record? Should I disclose this immediately in my personal statement or should I just be thorough in my explanation when I click that amazing box saying that I have had disciplinary action in the past?
:cry:

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usn26
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Re: Question

Postby usn26 » Sat Jul 15, 2017 3:22 am

ScamMan101 wrote:My question is how much is this expulsion from my original undergraduate institution going to impact me. Am I capable of getting admitting into a T14? I have strong letters of Rec. My GPA and LSAT are not the best and without the expulsion I think being a veteran would give me a little boost. Does anyone have experience applying with a blemish on their record? Should I disclose this immediately in my personal statement or should I just be thorough in my explanation when I click that amazing box saying that I have had disciplinary action in the past?


You will get into a T13 if you handle the application process with mild to moderate competence. Frankly, that GPA/LSAT combo with that personal trajectory makes you a much more compelling applicant than a generic K-JD with the same. Take responsibility, show growth, write well, get good recs. You'll be fine.

ScamMan101
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Re: Question

Postby ScamMan101 » Sat Jul 15, 2017 3:45 am

You will get into a T13 if you handle the application process with mild to moderate competence. Frankly, that GPA/LSAT combo with that personal trajectory makes you a much more compelling applicant than a generic K-JD with the same. Take responsibility, show growth, write well, get good recs. You'll be fine.[/quote]

Thanks man honestly it was the scariest worst experience of my life. I literally thought my future had been destroyed. I've seen some shit and been all over the world through the military but nothing quite compares to feeling like your future is out of your hands (after the fact). Definitely going to invest some time into crafting a strong personal statement and what not. Thank you for the feedback.

AJordan
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Re: Veterans Thread

Postby AJordan » Sat Jul 15, 2017 8:04 am

I feel like I would want to see more information before admitting you if I were an AdCom. Is it likely to keep you from failing C&F in the future. That might be enough for them to reject you even with your numbers.

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usn26
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Re: Veterans Thread

Postby usn26 » Sat Jul 15, 2017 12:17 pm

AJordan wrote:I feel like I would want to see more information before admitting you if I were an AdCom. Is it likely to keep you from failing C&F in the future. That might be enough for them to reject you even with your numbers.


This is fair. Might be worth consulting with the bar. I'm sure there's lots of C&F guidance on TLS. But I imagine it'd have to be pretty out there to be a problem.

From WHAT’S REMORSE GOT TO DO, GOT TO DO WITH IT? BAR ADMISSION FOR THOSE WITH YOUTHFUL OFFENSES, on the ABA website.
The National Conference of Bar Examiners has set forth a list of conduct that warrants further investigation:
[U]nlawful conduct, academic misconduct, making of false statements, including omissions, misconduct in employment, acts involving dishonesty, fraud, deceit or misrepresentation, abuse of legal process, neglect of financial responsibilities, neglect of professional obligations, violation of an order of a court, evidence of mental or emotional instability, evidence of drug or alcohol dependency, denial of admission to the bar in another jurisdiction on character and fitness ground, disciplinary action by a lawyer disciplinary agency or other professional disciplinary agency of any jurisdiction.

A critical factor in cases involving youthful offenses seems to be the behavior of the applicant during the admission process. For most youthful offenders, their crimes get them personalized scrutiny; but for applicants who committed minor, nonviolent offenses, bar admission is often theirs to lose based on choices they make during the character and fitness process. Factors such as lack of candor, failure to express remorse and failure to demonstrate rehabilitation during the application process appear to play important roles in bar admission denials.



ETA: on the subject of C&F, "ScamMan" is not the most confidence-inspiring handle lol

ScamMan101
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Re: Veterans Thread

Postby ScamMan101 » Sat Jul 15, 2017 8:27 pm

lol I know it's not. my offense was none of those things. scamman is a bit a joke between some friends and I. not at all related to my offense I promise!




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