Veterans Thread

(Applications Advice, Letters of Recommendation . . . )
NoMalice
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Re: Veterans Thread

Postby NoMalice » Fri Nov 03, 2017 8:20 pm

Anyone with less than 100% post-9/11 GI Bill have luck renegotiating scholarships as grants? Or have input on the subject?

For example, a 50% scholarship and 50% GI Bill sounds great - except GI Bill is the "last payer," so if the scholarship is dedicated to tuition, GI Bill only covers 50% of the remaining amount after scholarships, even if it's way under the GI Bill state cap. Meaning that if tuition was 10k a year, the 50% scholarship would cover $5,000 and GI Bill would cover $2,500, leaving me $2,500 out of pocket.

If the scholarship was instead a grant and not dedicated to tuition, GI Bill would come in as if I had no scholarship and pay $5,000, then the "grant" would pay the remaining $5,000, and I wouldn't have to take out loans or work during law school.

In some cases the school might be able to significantly reduce the amount of money provided by the scholarship or grant and still result in $0 out of pocket on my end. I see it as a win/win. Anyone have thoughts on this?

I guess the alternative is reenlisting...

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dannyswo
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Re: Veterans Thread

Postby dannyswo » Fri Nov 10, 2017 2:02 am

NoMalice wrote:Anyone with less than 100% post-9/11 GI Bill have luck renegotiating scholarships as grants? Or have input on the subject?

For example, a 50% scholarship and 50% GI Bill sounds great - except GI Bill is the "last payer," so if the scholarship is dedicated to tuition, GI Bill only covers 50% of the remaining amount after scholarships, even if it's way under the GI Bill state cap. Meaning that if tuition was 10k a year, the 50% scholarship would cover $5,000 and GI Bill would cover $2,500, leaving me $2,500 out of pocket.

If the scholarship was instead a grant and not dedicated to tuition, GI Bill would come in as if I had no scholarship and pay $5,000, then the "grant" would pay the remaining $5,000, and I wouldn't have to take out loans or work during law school.

In some cases the school might be able to significantly reduce the amount of money provided by the scholarship or grant and still result in $0 out of pocket on my end. I see it as a win/win. Anyone have thoughts on this?

I guess the alternative is reenlisting...

What's your source? I don't think you're right. https://benefits.va.gov/BENEFITS/factsh ... l_info.pdf
Your scholarship will be for a dollar amount. 50% GI Bill is 18 of the 36 months of benefits.

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dannyswo
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Re: Veterans Thread

Postby dannyswo » Fri Nov 10, 2017 2:13 am

Whidbey wrote:Long time lurker, first time poster. Thought I'd introduce myself since I keep coming back to this forum and thread. Thanks to all posters especially MT Cicero for keeping that spreadsheet.

About me. 3.33 Political Science from Washington State University, 157 when I took the LSAT back in 1998 on fairly minimal prep. Single, no kids. 41 years old and just passed the 50 point mark in my 20th year to qualify for my reserve retirement (I miss you already, Tricare Reserve select). Did 11 years active, 9 in the reserves. Navy OCS, EA-6B, T-45, C-40 pilot. Typical instructor quals, combat deployments and decorations. I've got the GI bill (actually paid the 100 bucks a month into the old one when back when I joined in 1998). Also have a service connected disability rating in excess of 20%.

I've been flying at a major airline for the last 7 years and now have the seniority to bid short trips, drop, and trade my schedule in order to attend Law school (or to just travel and surf). Continuing my airline career in a priority as it truly is a dream job. Great pay, great flexibility, and great time off. Believe it or not I do know several guys who have done law school while flying for an airline.

Because of my ties to Seattle and the northwest, it looks like Seattle U or bust as I don't have the grades for UW. My airline has major hubs in Seattle, LA, NYC, Atlanta, Minneapolis, and Salt Lake. I'd say that I might consider bidding to a different base but I just don't see having the numbers to get into a program that would justify leaving the beautiful Pacific Northwest, especially given that this is where I'd want to practice.

So you're probably asking, why is this fool thinking about law school? My old man wanted to fly jets but was colorblind, so he joined the Army Reserves and went to law school instead. He's had a fantastic legal career as a JAG in the reserves, a great private practice, and is currently serving as a judge. I saw first hand how he was able to leverage a legal education into helping people and serving the community. Sounds cheesy I'm sure and I'm not trying to write a personal statement on here, just saying how proud I am of what my dad was able to do.

When I graduated college an eternity ago I applied and was accepted to Gonazaga law, but also passed the flight physical and got my pilot slot at OCS. All the guys in my dad's firm at the time said go fly jets, you can always come back and do law school later. Well here I am, still thinking law school is something I'd enjoy, and that in spite of all the negativity on this forum (not this thread), It's worth pursuing.

A few questions... Any insight on what I'd need to to (other than the obvious of putting in the work through the next 9 months on LSAT prep) to be a strong applicant to Seattle U? Also, they have a limited number of yellow ribbon slots, and they say they are first come first serve. Anyone know how many semesters you'd likely have to knock out before being covered by yellow ribbon?

I'm inviting any and all spears to my plans.

I'd also like to offer my assistance to anyone interested in pursuing flying, whether civilian or military. If I had a nickle for every person who said "I always wanted to do that." I've mentored a number of people into civilian flying, active duty flying gigs, and also towards guard and reserve flying gigs, which will give age waivers.

Thanks all.

Whidbey

Yellow Ribbon is everyone at my school, as far as I can tell. There are only a handful of vets. I suspect you'd get it right away.
I only studied for a month for the LSAT. I think it might be worth taking the next LSAT, and then taking a second one, rather than spend the time studying. My thinking is that the X $ you'd spend for the second test is a better used of time/money. Also, if you score high enough you'll qualify for school + scholarship the first time around and save months of studying.
BT BT
OCS in 97, did a PAC NW CVN a while back.

Kirbaeus
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Re: Veterans Thread

Postby Kirbaeus » Tue Nov 14, 2017 4:26 pm

dannyswo wrote:
NoMalice wrote:Anyone with less than 100% post-9/11 GI Bill have luck renegotiating scholarships as grants? Or have input on the subject?

For example, a 50% scholarship and 50% GI Bill sounds great - except GI Bill is the "last payer," so if the scholarship is dedicated to tuition, GI Bill only covers 50% of the remaining amount after scholarships, even if it's way under the GI Bill state cap. Meaning that if tuition was 10k a year, the 50% scholarship would cover $5,000 and GI Bill would cover $2,500, leaving me $2,500 out of pocket.

If the scholarship was instead a grant and not dedicated to tuition, GI Bill would come in as if I had no scholarship and pay $5,000, then the "grant" would pay the remaining $5,000, and I wouldn't have to take out loans or work during law school.

In some cases the school might be able to significantly reduce the amount of money provided by the scholarship or grant and still result in $0 out of pocket on my end. I see it as a win/win. Anyone have thoughts on this?

I guess the alternative is reenlisting...

What's your source? I don't think you're right. https://benefits.va.gov/BENEFITS/factsh ... l_info.pdf
Your scholarship will be for a dollar amount. 50% GI Bill is 18 of the 36 months of benefits.


OP is right, I just went through this. I received a $14k scholarship amount and the GI Bill is the last payer. I have a 50% post-9/11 GI Bill rating.

Tuition is $23,000 or so per semester - $7,000 from my scholarship = $16,000 total. GI Bill paid $8,000 so I paid the $8k out of pocket.

If I had it as a grant: $23,000 - $11,500 from the GI Bill (50%). Results in $11,500 - $7,000 in scholarships = $4,500 out of pocket. It sucks, but I had to pay the larger amount. Maybe I can negotiate for next semester.

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dannyswo
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Re: Veterans Thread

Postby dannyswo » Wed Nov 15, 2017 12:53 am

Man, that’s odd as hell.

rockosmodernlife
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Re: Veterans Thread

Postby rockosmodernlife » Thu Nov 16, 2017 2:28 pm

Has anyone had any luck getting the GI Bill (post 9/11) to pay for bar prep classes/get BAH while studying?

Wipfelder
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Re: Veterans Thread

Postby Wipfelder » Thu Nov 16, 2017 2:29 pm

rockosmodernlife wrote:Has anyone had any luck getting the GI Bill (post 9/11) to pay for bar prep classes/get BAH while studying?


Bar prep isn't covered (the VA explicitly says so), but the bar exam is.

ddevich
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Re: Veterans Thread

Postby ddevich » Mon Nov 20, 2017 4:22 pm

Anyone having any luck so far? I know it's very early but some hearing about some veteran acceptances would certainly brighten up my week. I thought the wait for score day was bad...but at least we knew general timeline. Anywhere between today and April is horrible lol.

Aptony
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Re: Veterans Thread

Postby Aptony » Mon Nov 20, 2017 5:04 pm

modernoblomov wrote:It's great to see threads like this exist. I'm curious what it's been like studying for the LSAT for those on active duty. What was your study schedule like? Was it done on shore or sea duty? For how many months?

I'm especially curious for Navy linguists. Where did you fit in time to study? From what I'm hearing, it sounds like a 8/9-5 desk job more or less. I'd imagine there's time in the evenings to study but I also understand how naive it is to expect this given that it's the military.

Any input would be appreciated, thanks.


Brutal! Honestly, you gotta study every chance you get and that may even be during duty hours if you know you're going to have some down time. I had the displeasure of taking the Sep LSAT this past year while I worked 14xweekends during 3xDIV CPXs and 1xDIV WFX. It was brutal, but I literally had to study every chance I got. I didn't have a life for the 4ish months leading up to the test. in the week prior to the test I woke up extra early every day to take a whole practice test (saved the 5 most recent practice tests for this). It sucked, but I honestly think it helped immensely for the actual test.

jsmedley
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Re: Veterans Thread

Postby jsmedley » Sat Nov 25, 2017 5:51 pm

Soon to separate MA2 in the Navy. Hoping to attend school at University of San Diego due to geographical limitations (husband will be working there, family is there, etc.). I'll be retaking the LSAT as my practice scores are higher than the score below.

UG GPA: 3.8, BA in Political Science from SJSU
LSAT (September): 160

I am hoping for a 163 or higher when I retake in December to match what I'm scoring at home.

As an aside, has anyone had luck in negotiating unfenced scholarships at USD? I am hoping to earn a merit scholarship to help offset living expenses, but I haven't received any definitive information about this particular school. Their YR program is not quite as generous as some other private schools, so I would like some of the scholarship (if any are offered) to be allocated for tuition and other expenses.

Thanks for your feedback. Very much looking forward to hearing how everyone else progresses through the application season!

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Dcc617
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Re: Veterans Thread

Postby Dcc617 » Sat Nov 25, 2017 7:38 pm

jsmedley wrote:Soon to separate MA2 in the Navy. Hoping to attend school at University of San Diego due to geographical limitations (husband will be working there, family is there, etc.). I'll be retaking the LSAT as my practice scores are higher than the score below.

UG GPA: 3.8, BA in Political Science from SJSU
LSAT (September): 160

I am hoping for a 163 or higher when I retake in December to match what I'm scoring at home.

As an aside, has anyone had luck in negotiating unfenced scholarships at USD? I am hoping to earn a merit scholarship to help offset living expenses, but I haven't received any definitive information about this particular school. Their YR program is not quite as generous as some other private schools, so I would like some of the scholarship (if any are offered) to be allocated for tuition and other expenses.

Thanks for your feedback. Very much looking forward to hearing how everyone else progresses through the application season!


Hey, so USD is not looking great on employment prospects. LST has them at a 46% of graduates in full-time legal jobs, which is not great. Do you have military or civilian employment lined up? Otherwise you may want to hold off on going to school until you have some more flexibility. CA has some really good law schools.

Since you’re talking about YR I’m assuming you’re 100% GI bill eligibile. That’s a super sweet deal and covers a lot. It may not be the best use of it to go to USD.

Do you have specific career goals? USD will severely curtail them, so it’s important to think about if you’ll be able to achieve what you want to from that school.

https://www.lstreports.com/schools/sandiego/

rockosmodernlife
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Re: Veterans Thread

Postby rockosmodernlife » Mon Nov 27, 2017 11:20 am

Dcc617 wrote:
jsmedley wrote:Soon to separate MA2 in the Navy. Hoping to attend school at University of San Diego due to geographical limitations (husband will be working there, family is there, etc.). I'll be retaking the LSAT as my practice scores are higher than the score below.

UG GPA: 3.8, BA in Political Science from SJSU
LSAT (September): 160

I am hoping for a 163 or higher when I retake in December to match what I'm scoring at home.

As an aside, has anyone had luck in negotiating unfenced scholarships at USD? I am hoping to earn a merit scholarship to help offset living expenses, but I haven't received any definitive information about this particular school. Their YR program is not quite as generous as some other private schools, so I would like some of the scholarship (if any are offered) to be allocated for tuition and other expenses.

Thanks for your feedback. Very much looking forward to hearing how everyone else progresses through the application season!


Hey, so USD is not looking great on employment prospects. LST has them at a 46% of graduates in full-time legal jobs, which is not great. Do you have military or civilian employment lined up? Otherwise you may want to hold off on going to school until you have some more flexibility. CA has some really good law schools.

Since you’re talking about YR I’m assuming you’re 100% GI bill eligibile. That’s a super sweet deal and covers a lot. It may not be the best use of it to go to USD.

Do you have specific career goals? USD will severely curtail them, so it’s important to think about if you’ll be able to achieve what you want to from that school.

https://www.lstreports.com/schools/sandiego/



USD is a fine law school, especially if you want to end up working in the SD area. Don't blindly follow stats like DCC encourages you to do. You'll realize once you get to law school that about 50% of law students are 22 year old nerds with no social skills/any idea what they want to do post law school. I wouldn't hire them either. With that in mind, if you have decent grades and make an effort to meet people and seek out career opportunities, you'll be fine. It's a mistake to decide when/where to go to school based solely on numbers as DCC suggests. People that need to hide behind numbers are the same ones that you probably wouldn't want to hire in the first place.

Wipfelder
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Re: Veterans Thread

Postby Wipfelder » Mon Nov 27, 2017 11:31 am

rockosmodernlife wrote:
Dcc617 wrote:
jsmedley wrote:Soon to separate MA2 in the Navy. Hoping to attend school at University of San Diego due to geographical limitations (husband will be working there, family is there, etc.). I'll be retaking the LSAT as my practice scores are higher than the score below.

UG GPA: 3.8, BA in Political Science from SJSU
LSAT (September): 160

I am hoping for a 163 or higher when I retake in December to match what I'm scoring at home.

As an aside, has anyone had luck in negotiating unfenced scholarships at USD? I am hoping to earn a merit scholarship to help offset living expenses, but I haven't received any definitive information about this particular school. Their YR program is not quite as generous as some other private schools, so I would like some of the scholarship (if any are offered) to be allocated for tuition and other expenses.

Thanks for your feedback. Very much looking forward to hearing how everyone else progresses through the application season!


Hey, so USD is not looking great on employment prospects. LST has them at a 46% of graduates in full-time legal jobs, which is not great. Do you have military or civilian employment lined up? Otherwise you may want to hold off on going to school until you have some more flexibility. CA has some really good law schools.

Since you’re talking about YR I’m assuming you’re 100% GI bill eligibile. That’s a super sweet deal and covers a lot. It may not be the best use of it to go to USD.

Do you have specific career goals? USD will severely curtail them, so it’s important to think about if you’ll be able to achieve what you want to from that school.

https://www.lstreports.com/schools/sandiego/



USD is a fine law school, especially if you want to end up working in the SD area. Don't blindly follow stats like DCC encourages you to do. You'll realize once you get to law school that about 50% of law students are 22 year old nerds with no social skills/any idea what they want to do post law school. I wouldn't hire them either. With that in mind, if you have decent grades and make an effort to meet people and seek out career opportunities, you'll be fine. It's a mistake to decide when/where to go to school based solely on numbers as DCC suggests. People that need to hide behind numbers are the same ones that you probably wouldn't want to hire in the first place.


Sorry, but you can't just hang something like this up without getting pushback. DCC is giving solid advice based on their experience.

You are a 0L?

"You'll be fine"= "You are likely to find employment if you don't care what kind of employment it is, and aren't picky about salary". I agree that hustle and having work experience helps with employability, but LOL that LS doesn't matter. Do you think the veteran graduating from Stanford/UCLA/CAL/USC coming back home to SD is going to get bumped out of an SA slot because there is a SD veteran with moxy who wants that position?

rockosmodernlife
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Re: Veterans Thread

Postby rockosmodernlife » Mon Nov 27, 2017 11:48 am

Wipfelder wrote:
rockosmodernlife wrote:
Dcc617 wrote:
jsmedley wrote:Soon to separate MA2 in the Navy. Hoping to attend school at University of San Diego due to geographical limitations (husband will be working there, family is there, etc.). I'll be retaking the LSAT as my practice scores are higher than the score below.

UG GPA: 3.8, BA in Political Science from SJSU
LSAT (September): 160

I am hoping for a 163 or higher when I retake in December to match what I'm scoring at home.

As an aside, has anyone had luck in negotiating unfenced scholarships at USD? I am hoping to earn a merit scholarship to help offset living expenses, but I haven't received any definitive information about this particular school. Their YR program is not quite as generous as some other private schools, so I would like some of the scholarship (if any are offered) to be allocated for tuition and other expenses.

Thanks for your feedback. Very much looking forward to hearing how everyone else progresses through the application season!


Hey, so USD is not looking great on employment prospects. LST has them at a 46% of graduates in full-time legal jobs, which is not great. Do you have military or civilian employment lined up? Otherwise you may want to hold off on going to school until you have some more flexibility. CA has some really good law schools.

Since you’re talking about YR I’m assuming you’re 100% GI bill eligibile. That’s a super sweet deal and covers a lot. It may not be the best use of it to go to USD.

Do you have specific career goals? USD will severely curtail them, so it’s important to think about if you’ll be able to achieve what you want to from that school.

https://www.lstreports.com/schools/sandiego/



USD is a fine law school, especially if you want to end up working in the SD area. Don't blindly follow stats like DCC encourages you to do. You'll realize once you get to law school that about 50% of law students are 22 year old nerds with no social skills/any idea what they want to do post law school. I wouldn't hire them either. With that in mind, if you have decent grades and make an effort to meet people and seek out career opportunities, you'll be fine. It's a mistake to decide when/where to go to school based solely on numbers as DCC suggests. People that need to hide behind numbers are the same ones that you probably wouldn't want to hire in the first place.


Sorry, but you can't just hang something like this up without getting pushback. DCC is giving solid advice based on their experience.

You are a 0L?

"You'll be fine"= "You are likely to find employment if you don't care what kind of employment it is, and aren't picky about salary". I agree that hustle and having work experience helps with employability, but LOL that LS doesn't matter. Do you think the veteran graduating from Stanford/UCLA/CAL/USC coming back home to SD is going to get bumped out of an SA slot because there is a SD veteran with moxy who wants that position?



Nope, not a 0L, I'm a 3L, have had pretty decent experience myself, and haven't had any problem with super competitive employment options while in law school and for post law school. I never said what law school you go to doesn't matter. Obviously there are a lot more career opportunities coming out of a top law school vs. a lower ranked one. But deciding what school to go to solely based on rank is stupid. With a 160 sure, maybe you can get into a school ranked a little higher than USD...but you certainly won't get into a top school (let-alone Stanford, UCLA, CAL, or USC). So what are we looking at here, USD vs. Pepperdine? Yeah, that difference won't matter.

JSMedley was not asking for advice on where to go to school. They were asking about scholarships at USD. So if someone wants to help with that then let's hear it...but knocking down their ambitions because the school doesn't meet your standards? C'mon. USD isn't Cooley, so let's not treat it as such.

jsmedley
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Re: Veterans Thread

Postby jsmedley » Mon Nov 27, 2017 11:49 am

Thank you both for your feedback. I don't anticipate there will be any change in my geographical location, as my husband's career with law enforcement will root us in San Diego area. There is a chance we may be up in the Temecula area, in which case I will consider Irvine. I'll apply to a swath of schools in CA for bargaining power, though.

I've connected to a few mentors in SD--prosecutors and a judge in the county court systems/CA DOJ, all of which are recent (or long ago for the judge) graduates of USD Law. All of them have ubiquitously said that the prospects for a USD Law graduate interested in crim law are solid within the locality, especially for those students who heavily intern/clerk with the county system or DOJ. I would like to think I don't have any personality issues that would preclude me from employment...ha! :)

I am 100% eligible for the GI Bill, and while it would be nice to attend a school with higher prestige, I'm not willing to become a geobachelor for the sake of school. My husband and I have learned that our marriage needs the regular nurturing that collocation provides. Priorities have changed for the both of us as we've served in the Navy!

I'm hoping to convince USD to recode their scholarships if I'm lucky enough to get one. Even with YR, there is a gap in tuition coverage, but if I can get a general scholarship, I could cover the difference and pocket the rest. Here's hoping the financial aid office has worked with veterans before and knows the drill. :)

jsmedley
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Re: Veterans Thread

Postby jsmedley » Mon Nov 27, 2017 11:58 am

rockosmodernlife wrote:Nope, not a 0L, I'm a 3L, have had pretty decent experience myself, and haven't had any problem with super competitive employment options while in law school and for post law school. I never said what law school you go to doesn't matter. Obviously there are a lot more career opportunities coming out of a top law school vs. a lower ranked one. But deciding what school to go to solely based on rank is stupid. With a 160 sure, maybe you can get into a school ranked a little higher than USD...but you certainly won't get into a top school (let-alone Stanford, UCLA, CAL, or USC). So what are we looking at here, USD vs. Pepperdine? Yeah, that difference won't matter.

JSMedley was not asking for advice on where to go to school. They were asking about scholarships at USD. So if someone wants to help with that then let's hear it...but knocking down their ambitions because the school doesn't meet your standards? C'mon. USD isn't Cooley, so let's not treat it as such.


Truly, I appreciate both you and Wipfelder commenting, even if the opinions are a bit disparate! I think I can raise my score enough to be considered for USC at least. They've invited me to apply when they received my LSAT, but it's likely because they are interested in veterans too. I don't want to undersell my chances, but I'm realistic enough to acknowledge I'm under their average scores on the LSAT.

I don't intend for my comments to come across as flippant or apathetic. My default is to be a worry-wart and a control freak, but I've learned that there are a billion and one things I simply cannot control. The market could take a dive, my medical issues could progress to where I can't walk, or the state could put a moratorium on hires for county/state DOJ positions right as I graduate. I'm trying to make a decision with a balanced consideration of my personal priorities, professional goals, and sprinkle it with a little bit of faith.

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MT Cicero
Posts: 671
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Re: Veterans Thread

Postby MT Cicero » Tue Nov 28, 2017 1:31 am

rockosmodernlife wrote:
Wipfelder wrote:
rockosmodernlife wrote:
Dcc617 wrote:
jsmedley wrote:Soon to separate MA2 in the Navy. Hoping to attend school at University of San Diego due to geographical limitations (husband will be working there, family is there, etc.). I'll be retaking the LSAT as my practice scores are higher than the score below.

UG GPA: 3.8, BA in Political Science from SJSU
LSAT (September): 160

I am hoping for a 163 or higher when I retake in December to match what I'm scoring at home.

As an aside, has anyone had luck in negotiating unfenced scholarships at USD? I am hoping to earn a merit scholarship to help offset living expenses, but I haven't received any definitive information about this particular school. Their YR program is not quite as generous as some other private schools, so I would like some of the scholarship (if any are offered) to be allocated for tuition and other expenses.

Thanks for your feedback. Very much looking forward to hearing how everyone else progresses through the application season!


Hey, so USD is not looking great on employment prospects. LST has them at a 46% of graduates in full-time legal jobs, which is not great. Do you have military or civilian employment lined up? Otherwise you may want to hold off on going to school until you have some more flexibility. CA has some really good law schools.

Since you’re talking about YR I’m assuming you’re 100% GI bill eligibile. That’s a super sweet deal and covers a lot. It may not be the best use of it to go to USD.

Do you have specific career goals? USD will severely curtail them, so it’s important to think about if you’ll be able to achieve what you want to from that school.

https://www.lstreports.com/schools/sandiego/



USD is a fine law school, especially if you want to end up working in the SD area. Don't blindly follow stats like DCC encourages you to do. You'll realize once you get to law school that about 50% of law students are 22 year old nerds with no social skills/any idea what they want to do post law school. I wouldn't hire them either. With that in mind, if you have decent grades and make an effort to meet people and seek out career opportunities, you'll be fine. It's a mistake to decide when/where to go to school based solely on numbers as DCC suggests. People that need to hide behind numbers are the same ones that you probably wouldn't want to hire in the first place.


Sorry, but you can't just hang something like this up without getting pushback. DCC is giving solid advice based on their experience.

You are a 0L?

"You'll be fine"= "You are likely to find employment if you don't care what kind of employment it is, and aren't picky about salary". I agree that hustle and having work experience helps with employability, but LOL that LS doesn't matter. Do you think the veteran graduating from Stanford/UCLA/CAL/USC coming back home to SD is going to get bumped out of an SA slot because there is a SD veteran with moxy who wants that position?



Nope, not a 0L, I'm a 3L, have had pretty decent experience myself, and haven't had any problem with super competitive employment options while in law school and for post law school. I never said what law school you go to doesn't matter. Obviously there are a lot more career opportunities coming out of a top law school vs. a lower ranked one. But deciding what school to go to solely based on rank is stupid. With a 160 sure, maybe you can get into a school ranked a little higher than USD...but you certainly won't get into a top school (let-alone Stanford, UCLA, CAL, or USC). So what are we looking at here, USD vs. Pepperdine? Yeah, that difference won't matter.

JSMedley was not asking for advice on where to go to school. They were asking about scholarships at USD. So if someone wants to help with that then let's hear it...but knocking down their ambitions because the school doesn't meet your standards? C'mon. USD isn't Cooley, so let's not treat it as such.


Don't strawman quite so hard. DCC was about at measured as any poster on this site in his advice. He didn't call USD Cooley, nor did anyone else. But their employment stats aren't terribly great, and given the limited information provided, it's prudent to give people all the facts and perhaps widen their gaze when it could benefit them.

Also, I don't know why you are saying jsmedley "certainly won't get into a top school." She's (I think she?) talking about targeting a 163 here in a week and has a 3.8. Nobody would tell her to go to Pepperdine or a mid- to lower-ranked Bay Area school (for example) if she wants to work in SD, given the fairly equivalent employment numbers. But I'm guessing DCC's thinking there's a legit shot at USC, UCLA, and maybe even Berkeley if she gets a bit of a bounce in the LSAT with her GPA. Maybe Irvine places better in SD also, I'm not sure. Don't really know the Cali market. But what I do know is what those schools I just mentioned would cost someone with full Yellow Ribbon...the square root of not a damn thing.

Until I stumbled on this site, and even soon thereafter, I was going to attend a yet-to-be ABA accredited school because the geography fit in with my family. I gave it more consideration as I learned more about the process and how much the school can matter. Good thing I didn't get people who just wanted to feed me what I wanted to hear. A lot has changed in the years since I first was in the decision game, and my school opened up plenty of doors.

Also, while your response to Wipfielder was a bit more measured, your initial response to DCC was mostly garbage. I know people who hire in biglaw firms, and I know what they look for. I've seen the Symplicity postings at mid-tier schools OCI. I've done OCI myself. I've watched government agencies hire and midlaw firms hire. While I definitely think the "hustle" portion is underrated generally on TLS, the opposite of that is not "blindly following stats." The "22-year-old nerds" are the same folks hiring 10 years later, based on generally the same criteria that the generation before them used to cull the crowd to a manageable number. Landing a job you desire in a market you desire is not as simple as you seemed to intimate in your first post. I'm leery of rosy-outcome advice, but more so when it's paired with feeding people the information they want to hear. In this case, "just do SD and hustle and all will probably be golden." Maybe yes, maybe no. But jsmedley deserves a bit more than an answer to "you think I can get extra money?" Who knows what her goals or geographic/family situation will look like as a 2L or graduate?

jsmedley...go slay the LSAT and update us with your score. Maybe you'll have more options to at least consider in a few weeks. Just keep an open mind.

Good luck on Saturday!

jsmedley
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Re: Veterans Thread

Postby jsmedley » Fri Dec 01, 2017 2:48 pm

Thank you MT for your thoughtful reply. Your advice is well-taken, and I will make sure I keep my options open as time goes on. Here's hoping my LSAT score tomorrow will indeed open more doors! I scored another 164 on my practice test a couple days ago. I hope I can replicate it when it matters most. :)

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MT Cicero
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Re: Veterans Thread

Postby MT Cicero » Fri Dec 01, 2017 2:59 pm

jsmedley wrote:Thank you MT for your thoughtful reply. Your advice is well-taken, and I will make sure I keep my options open as time goes on. Here's hoping my LSAT score tomorrow will indeed open more doors! I scored another 164 on my practice test a couple days ago. I hope I can replicate it when it matters most. :)


Remember, the test is exactly the same as a PT at its core. Part of the battle is keeping that soda-straw focus for 35 minutes x 5 sections. Really makes a difference when you don't let your mind out of the box even the tiniest bit. Stay "in" each question. Whatever you've been doing, keep doing it (don't try anything new or out of order), and expect to do well.

jsmedley
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Re: Veterans Thread

Postby jsmedley » Tue Dec 05, 2017 2:42 pm

Thank you MT. I can't believe how pervasive this test anxiety is! I feel like my impression post-Sunday's LSAT was equitable with my impressions following each practice exam, and those were all higher than 160. We shall see when the results come out! It's approximately three weeks, right? I can't seem to find the projected date online.

That being said--would it behoove me to submit applications to prospective schools now, or wait until my DEC scores are posted? I certainly don't want to undersell myself if my scores improve by submitting beforehand, but I also don't want to apply too late in the game to secure admission and scholarships. My google searches have gone either way on the subject. Any thoughts?

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MT Cicero
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Re: Veterans Thread

Postby MT Cicero » Tue Dec 05, 2017 6:14 pm

jsmedley wrote:Thank you MT. I can't believe how pervasive this test anxiety is! I feel like my impression post-Sunday's LSAT was equitable with my impressions following each practice exam, and those were all higher than 160. We shall see when the results come out! It's approximately three weeks, right? I can't seem to find the projected date online.

That being said--would it behoove me to submit applications to prospective schools now, or wait until my DEC scores are posted? I certainly don't want to undersell myself if my scores improve by submitting beforehand, but I also don't want to apply too late in the game to secure admission and scholarships. My google searches have gone either way on the subject. Any thoughts?


Dave Killoran from Powerscore is predicting 2 Jan. Apparently it's fairly consistently been 31 days after the December test. I would wait to apply if I were you, for a couple reasons:

First, the fact that you feel like you're pretty close to where you were PTing is a good sign. If you've been consistently higher than your previous score and feel this one was on par with that practice, I like your chances (though it comes out both ways, so mentally prepare yourself for anything).

Second, getting your application in this week (for example) vs. 2 Jan isn't likely to make a huge difference, especially when compared with an LSAT bump. Many schools are getting ready to send out some pre-Christmas decisions, then will go semi-dormant until after the new year. I don't know that your application would change at this point, since it's not "early" (generally mid-November or so) and not "late" (generally post-Feb scores). You're in the meaty middle. To the extent you could get a quick decision, it might not be one you like. So no point in submitting and telling the schools, "hey, hold on a sec until my next score comes out."

Use the next 4 weeks to enjoy the holiday, but also to make the rest of your application as tight as you can. Might as well shore up what you can on the margins. Or...

This might make you hate me, but if you feel you still have some room to maneuver upward on the LSAT at all, consider staying in the grind through the February test. Go ahead and submit apps on score release date, but you could buy yourself either money (if required, depending on YRP) or acceptance if you end up right at a school's margin. You're already in that Pavlovian mindset of an LSAT study routine anyway! Do you think you could continue to increase speed/accuracy and move to the 165-168+ world? Even if not, you wouldn't believe how many people do exactly that starting from some pretty low scores. But you have to be "in it" to make it worth the sacrifice, as a half-hearted or even 3/4-hearted effort is likely to just make you miserable with little chance of improving. I would give it strong consideration though.




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