Veterans Thread Forum

[virtus26]

Is anyone considering National Guard during Law School?

I'm debating between taking a cush admin job vs. getting in line for command of an infantry company.

I have no clue what it's like on the NG side, any input would be appreciated.

I missed this discussion earlier. I'm an E-6 in the NG while attending HLS right now. I'm drilling in my home state (MN) where they are paying $35k of my tuition every year in addition to the MGI and drill pay. (Drill pay ends up being a wash since I have to fly home every month or rent a car to split here.) I agree with everything else above though; without the state tuition benefit it wouldn't make financial sense for me to stay in.

Wait -- MN is paying HLS? I was under the impression that NG will only cover in-state schools within the respective unit's state? Am I missing something here?

[TripTrip]

Is anyone considering National Guard during Law School?

I'm debating between taking a cush admin job vs. getting in line for command of an infantry company.

I have no clue what it's like on the NG side, any input would be appreciated.

I missed this discussion earlier. I'm an E-6 in the NG while attending HLS right now. I'm drilling in my home state (MN) where they are paying $35k of my tuition every year in addition to the MGI and drill pay. (Drill pay ends up being a wash since I have to fly home every month or rent a car to split here.) I agree with everything else above though; without the state tuition benefit it wouldn't make financial sense for me to stay in.

Wait -- MN is paying HLS? I was under the impression that NG will only cover in-state schools within the respective unit's state? Am I missing something here?

Yeah. It totally depends on the state. MN pays up to the in-state tuition levels for any school. U of Minn is $35k/yr for grad school, so that's what I get.

Link: http://www.minnesotanationalguard.org/e ... /benefits/

[JazzyMac]

Im only twenty-two. I finished my B.S. while on active duty at 21. While I was on active duty I was an E4, and my supervisor was a 26 year old E5. He sent me an email one day before writing my EPR letting me know "You have too much education, and too much volunteerism." A few months later I was accepted to UT law, and dropped separation papers. Now, I am literally about to get paid to go to UT. (GI Bill plus scholarship) That is what is wrong with the military today.

I'd have to say the supervisor comment could have pointed to the fact that your education and volunteer bullets outweighed your duty performance bullets. School and volunteering is great, and I highly recommend it. But, if you're not showing as strong in your main duties, it can come off negative.

I've supervised many an educated subordinate and the ones who have succeeded have followed my advice.

I'm sure my education bullets and volunteer bullets outweighed my duty performance bullets. I had no plan and no goal of being an NCO or spending a second more in the military than I needed to. Now I'm attending a top law school and he's probably telling some other young troop their priorities need to be "God, country, service," just like he told me. Time will tell who made the better decision.

Keep in mind, many here in this forum have succeeded in the ranks, led people, teams, and organizations, and seen combat while their loved ones have stayed at home or their brothers-in-arms have died...all while attaining their undergraduate degrees, or even more. Now they've retired after serving many years honorably and some have gone on to REAL top law schools (T-14 as it were). I'm certain that "God, country, service" is less about the focus on duties versus education, and more about the overall attitude.

TL;DR: You and your former supervisor will both succeed with the right attitude, education is just another cherry!

[FairchildFLT]

Im only twenty-two. I finished my B.S. while on active duty at 21. While I was on active duty I was an E4, and my supervisor was a 26 year old E5. He sent me an email one day before writing my EPR letting me know "You have too much education, and too much volunteerism." A few months later I was accepted to UT law, and dropped separation papers. Now, I am literally about to get paid to go to UT. (GI Bill plus scholarship) That is what is wrong with the military today.

I'd have to say the supervisor comment could have pointed to the fact that your education and volunteer bullets outweighed your duty performance bullets. School and volunteering is great, and I highly recommend it. But, if you're not showing as strong in your main duties, it can come off negative.

I've supervised many an educated subordinate and the ones who have succeeded have followed my advice.

I'm sure my education bullets and volunteer bullets outweighed my duty performance bullets. I had no plan and no goal of being an NCO or spending a second more in the military than I needed to. Now I'm attending a top law school and he's probably telling some other young troop their priorities need to be "God, country, service," just like he told me. Time will tell who made the better decision.

Keep in mind, many here in this forum have succeeded in the ranks, led people, teams, and organizations, and seen combat while their loved ones have stayed at home or their brothers-in-arms have died...all while attaining their undergraduate degrees, or even more. Now they've retired after serving many years honorably and some have gone on to REAL top law schools (T-14 as it were). I'm certain that "God, country, service" is less about the focus on duties versus education, and more about the overall attitude.

TL;DR: You and your former supervisor will both succeed with the right attitude, education is just another cherry!

Don't get me wrong. I hear what you're saying. The guy was a tool bag. My first few years I was about as blue as they came...then I got to a new unit, met a few people, and checked out to pursue my own goals.

[BNA]

One month of (necessary) law school exams every other day -vs- going back to boot camp?

[CenterFringe]

Checking in, I'm an O-2 Combat Engineer in the Marine Corps looking to apply next cycle. I took the LSAT in December 2012 so (I think) this will be the last cycle my LSAT score is valid.
LSAT: 176
GPA: 3.58
Major: Honors Electrical Engineering and Sociology (Criminal Justice Concentration)
Flagship State School
Applying for:
Harvard
Stanford (maybe)
UVA
Career plans: Administrative Law/Policy work for the Department of Energy focusing on Environmental Law. Obviously other Fed agencies are of interest as well.

Has anyone used Harvard's Yellow Ribbon this past year? I noticed it's only 25k (so 50k total). Based on what I'm seeing, I'd expect out of pocket to be close to 10k a year...was this anyone else's experience?

On another note, I'm glad I found this thread, and thank you all for your input, it's been quite helpful.

[Dcc617]

Checking in, I'm an O-2 Combat Engineer in the Marine Corps looking to apply next cycle. I took the LSAT in December 2012 so (I think) this will be the last cycle my LSAT score is valid.
LSAT: 176
GPA: 3.58
Major: Honors Electrical Engineering and Sociology (Criminal Justice Concentration)
Flagship State School
Applying for:
Harvard
Stanford (maybe)
UVA
Career plans: Administrative Law/Policy work for the Department of Energy focusing on Environmental Law. Obviously other Fed agencies are of interest as well.

Has anyone used Harvard's Yellow Ribbon this past year? I noticed it's only 25k (so 50k total). Based on what I'm seeing, I'd expect out of pocket to be close to 10k a year...was this anyone else's experience?

On another note, I'm glad I found this thread, and thank you all for your input, it's been quite helpful.

My numbers are very close to yours (in my profile) and I've gotten into Harvard. If you're 100% eligible then YRP covers all tuition and fees. At least that's what they've told me.

[CenterFringe]

Checking in, I'm an O-2 Combat Engineer in the Marine Corps looking to apply next cycle. I took the LSAT in December 2012 so (I think) this will be the last cycle my LSAT score is valid.
LSAT: 176
GPA: 3.58
Major: Honors Electrical Engineering and Sociology (Criminal Justice Concentration)
Flagship State School
Applying for:
Harvard
Stanford (maybe)
UVA
Career plans: Administrative Law/Policy work for the Department of Energy focusing on Environmental Law. Obviously other Fed agencies are of interest as well.

Has anyone used Harvard's Yellow Ribbon this past year? I noticed it's only 25k (so 50k total). Based on what I'm seeing, I'd expect out of pocket to be close to 10k a year...was this anyone else's experience? Check check, I'm an idiot. the 50k YRP is on top of the GI Bill Private School Maximum which, after BAH, puts you north of COA I'll take a lap.

On another note, I'm glad I found this thread, and thank you all for your input, it's been quite helpful.

My numbers are very close to yours (in my profile) and I've gotten into Harvard. If you're 100% eligible then YRP covers all tuition and fees. At least that's what they've told me.

Thanks for the quick reply. Our numbers are pretty similar, although your GPA is considerably better. It's crazy how high the bottom 25 is at HLS. When did you apply/get accepted? Any military specific advice to offer? I'm really interested to hear how the YRP thing works out. I know it used to be 100% tuition. It is nice to get BAH and so not have to worry about CoL when looking at schools. Although, compared to Hawai'i everything looks cheap.

[Dcc617]

Checking in, I'm an O-2 Combat Engineer in the Marine Corps looking to apply next cycle. I took the LSAT in December 2012 so (I think) this will be the last cycle my LSAT score is valid.
LSAT: 176
GPA: 3.58
Major: Honors Electrical Engineering and Sociology (Criminal Justice Concentration)
Flagship State School
Applying for:
Harvard
Stanford (maybe)
UVA
Career plans: Administrative Law/Policy work for the Department of Energy focusing on Environmental Law. Obviously other Fed agencies are of interest as well.

Has anyone used Harvard's Yellow Ribbon this past year? I noticed it's only 25k (so 50k total). Based on what I'm seeing, I'd expect out of pocket to be close to 10k a year...was this anyone else's experience?

On another note, I'm glad I found this thread, and thank you all for your input, it's been quite helpful.

My numbers are very close to yours (in my profile) and I've gotten into Harvard. If you're 100% eligible then YRP covers all tuition and fees. At least that's what they've told me.

Thanks for the quick reply. Our numbers are pretty similar, although your GPA is considerably better. It's crazy how high the bottom 25 is at HLS. When did you apply/get accepted? Any military specific advice to offer? I'm really interested to hear how the YRP thing works out. I know it used to be 100% tuition. It is nice to get BAH and so not have to worry about CoL when looking at schools. Although, compared to Hawai'i everything looks cheap.

I applied the day applications opened and was accepted 28 March. So last week I actually called Harvard's financial aid office and spoke to them about YRP. It covers 100% of tuition and fees. I don't know where you heard otherwise. They also told me not to worry about the 50 person limit since there aren't even close to that many vets there, and they're bringing it up to unlimited people this upcoming year.

I really played up my military experience in my app, but I don't know if it made a difference. I also briefly used service2school.org, but I went to them when I already had all of my stuff together so they didn't do too much for me personally. It seems like a good program though.

I used to be stationed at Schofield, by the way. You can PM me if you want to ask any more personal questions or anything.

[unc0mm0n1]

Checking in, I'm an O-2 Combat Engineer in the Marine Corps looking to apply next cycle. I took the LSAT in December 2012 so (I think) this will be the last cycle my LSAT score is valid.
LSAT: 176
GPA: 3.58
Major: Honors Electrical Engineering and Sociology (Criminal Justice Concentration)
Flagship State School
Applying for:
Harvard
Stanford (maybe)
UVA
Career plans: Administrative Law/Policy work for the Department of Energy focusing on Environmental Law. Obviously other Fed agencies are of interest as well.

Has anyone used Harvard's Yellow Ribbon this past year? I noticed it's only 25k (so 50k total). Based on what I'm seeing, I'd expect out of pocket to be close to 10k a year...was this anyone else's experience?

On another note, I'm glad I found this thread, and thank you all for your input, it's been quite helpful.

My numbers are very close to yours (in my profile) and I've gotten into Harvard. If you're 100% eligible then YRP covers all tuition and fees. At least that's what they've told me.

Thanks for the quick reply. Our numbers are pretty similar, although your GPA is considerably better. It's crazy how high the bottom 25 is at HLS. When did you apply/get accepted? Any military specific advice to offer? I'm really interested to hear how the YRP thing works out. I know it used to be 100% tuition. It is nice to get BAH and so not have to worry about CoL when looking at schools. Although, compared to Hawai'i everything looks cheap.

I applied the day applications opened and was accepted 28 March. So last week I actually called Harvard's financial aid office and spoke to them about YRP. It covers 100% of tuition and fees. I don't know where you heard otherwise. They also told me not to worry about the 50 person limit since there aren't even close to that many vets there, and they're bringing it up to unlimited people this upcoming year.

I really played up my military experience in my app, but I don't know if it made a difference. I also briefly used service2school.org, but I went to them when I already had all of my stuff together so they didn't do too much for me personally. It seems like a good program though.

I used to be stationed at Schofield, by the way. You can PM me if you want to ask any more personal questions or anything.

Fairly recent HLS grad. Everything is covered and financial aid is correct, there was nowhere near 50 vets when I was there. They really treat vets well there. Each year we have a private dinner with the Dean. There are always military/national security focused special guest speakers. Also there are lots of networking opportunities with vets from HBS and HKS. If policy is your end goal you may want to do a JD/MPP. HKS has a great program with a lot of former government officials.

[TripTrip]

They really treat vets well there.

While I enjoy the dinner and they do treat vets well, I will say that as National Guard HLS treats me like absolute shit. Since YRP doesn't apply to the military funding sources I use, annually they preemptively cut my student budget in observance of the fact that my state will reimburse part of my tuition after the term. So not only do they not provide any sort of funding, but they drastically cut any normal potential for need-based grants and remove my ability to borrow at lower interest rates or in LIPP-qualifying ways.

This is the worst treatment I've gotten from any school I've ever attended. (And don't get me started on professors trying to dock me when I get put on two week training orders. Seriously it's like these people have never heard of the Guard before.)

[unc0mm0n1]

They really treat vets well there.

While I enjoy the dinner and they do treat vets well, I will say that as National Guard HLS treats me like absolute shit. Since YRP doesn't apply to the military funding sources I use, annually they preemptively cut my student budget in observance of the fact that my state will reimburse part of my tuition after the term. So not only do they not provide any sort of funding, but they drastically cut any normal potential for need-based grants and remove my ability to borrow at lower interest rates or in LIPP-qualifying ways.

This is the worst treatment I've gotten from any school I've ever attended. (And don't get me started on professors trying to dock me when I get put on two week training orders. Seriously it's like these people have never heard of the Guard before.)

I guess I had a very different experience, but I'm also former active duty. The housing office was super efficient and even worked with me when my stipend was late. They bent over backwards to make sure all of the issues I had were settled. I remember talking to them before I decided where to attend (I was choosing between them and Yale). They spent nearly an hour on the phone explaining to me how my financial aid would work and the programs they had for vets. When I called Yale they gave me a five minute spiel and basically told me to go to the VA website. As a Vet, HLS has been awesome to me.

[OtterLaw]

I'm actually really bummed that I didn't find TLS until after I sent in my intent to separate. My GI Bill is at 80% and had I known how YRP worked I would have probably extended my contract a year to get to 100% and retaken the LSAT to apply for next cycle. Getting waitlisted Harvard with my low LSAT makes me feel like I'd have a legitimate shot at getting in next year to H and S with a higher score and I could have gone with all tuition and fees covered. It's too late to go back now though. I'm still excited about UVA at an 80% discount but can't help thinking what could have been.

[Wipfelder]

can't help thinking what could have been.

Harvard for free, the one that got away.

[CenterFringe]

I applied the day applications opened and was accepted 28 March. So last week I actually called Harvard's financial aid office and spoke to them about YRP. It covers 100% of tuition and fees. I don't know where you heard otherwise. They also told me not to worry about the 50 person limit since there aren't even close to that many vets there, and they're bringing it up to unlimited people this upcoming year.

I really played up my military experience in my app, but I don't know if it made a difference. I also briefly used service2school.org, but I went to them when I already had all of my stuff together so they didn't do too much for me personally. It seems like a good program though.

I used to be stationed at Schofield, by the way. You can PM me if you want to ask any more personal questions or anything.

When I was looking at the YRP amount, I forgot that you also get GI Bill on top of that, so that's where the difference comes in to play.

Shit man, that's a long cycle. I'm also planning to submit on Day 1, and then try not to think about it again.
I'm quite familiar with Schofield East Ranges. I left a trail of tears during a platoon training op over there, and I had a corporal request mast and ask the CO to relieve me. Good times, good times.

[CenterFringe]

Fairly recent HLS grad. Everything is covered and financial aid is correct, there was nowhere near 50 vets when I was there. They really treat vets well there. Each year we have a private dinner with the Dean. There are always military/national security focused special guest speakers. Also there are lots of networking opportunities with vets from HBS and HKS. If policy is your end goal you may want to do a JD/MPP. HKS has a great program with a lot of former government officials.

Thanks for the gouge. I was looking at the MPP, and I may end up applying for the school after my first year, which has the added benefit of not requiring my to take the GRE. What did you think of your elective law classes at HLS? One of my big concerns with doing the dual curriculum is not being able to take as many substantive/interesting classes.

[OLitch]

Is it possible to use 3-4 months of the post 9/11 GIBill each year and still get the full amount of the YRP?

I was hoping to maximize the last months of my GIBill.

[BNA]

Is it possible to use 3-4 months of the post 9/11 GIBill each year and still get the full amount of the YRP?

I was hoping to maximize the last months of my GIBill.

Certainly confirm this with the VA and your school, but I think you'll be limited to YRP only for the semesters you're enrolled. I have to fill out an enrollment confirmation at the beginning of each semester that qualifies both payments. Your only way to limit the GIB funding would be to submit a disbursement request for one semester instead of two, which would effectively make you non-existent to the VA for the second semester. Thinking in these terms, it's likely that the YRP is joined and follows the GIB eligibility for each individual semester.

[doobleykah]

Does anyone know if Health Insurance is calculated as part of necessary fees and thus covered by the GI Bill or factored in with other Cost of attendance and thus the responsibility of the student? Married with a little one on the way. So my wife will not be working the first year* like we anticipated.

[Nagster5]

Does anyone know if Health Insurance is calculated as part of necessary fees and thus covered by the GI Bill or factored in with other Cost of attendance and thus the responsibility of the student? Married with a little one on the way. So my wife will not be working the first year* like we anticipated.

CoA unfortunately.

[doobleykah]

Does anyone know if Health Insurance is calculated as part of necessary fees and thus covered by the GI Bill or factored in with other Cost of attendance and thus the responsibility of the student? Married with a little one on the way. So my wife will not be working the first year* like we anticipated.

CoA unfortunately.

Am i correct in assuming that you have already chased this to a terminus at UVA?

[Nagster5]

Does anyone know if Health Insurance is calculated as part of necessary fees and thus covered by the GI Bill or factored in with other Cost of attendance and thus the responsibility of the student? Married with a little one on the way. So my wife will not be working the first year* like we anticipated.

CoA unfortunately.

Am i correct in assuming that you have already chased this to a terminus at UVA?

With the VA. Maybe the finaid department can kungfu the numbers to trick the government somehow, if they can let me know.

[doobleykah]

Does anyone know if Health Insurance is calculated as part of necessary fees and thus covered by the GI Bill or factored in with other Cost of attendance and thus the responsibility of the student? Married with a little one on the way. So my wife will not be working the first year* like we anticipated.

CoA unfortunately.

Am i correct in assuming that you have already chased this to a terminus at UVA?

With the VA. Maybe the finaid department can kungfu the numbers to trick the government somehow, if they can let me know.

I am on the phone with the VA now and basically if the school sends them a bill that says its a mandatory fee, then they pay for it. So ultimately it comes down to FINAID having the brains/balls to handle this properly. This is an absolutely unacceptable grey area and I am now convinced that thousands of students are paying for this when they should not be.

[OtterLaw]

Does anyone know if Health Insurance is calculated as part of necessary fees and thus covered by the GI Bill or factored in with other Cost of attendance and thus the responsibility of the student? Married with a little one on the way. So my wife will not be working the first year* like we anticipated.

CoA unfortunately.

Am i correct in assuming that you have already chased this to a terminus at UVA?

With the VA. Maybe the finaid department can kungfu the numbers to trick the government somehow, if they can let me know.

My understanding is that if you're covered by the VA, then you satisfy the requirement from the school. I'm going to try to get VA coverage this summer while I'm unemployed as well as my husband. It would be great if we only had to worry about insurance for him next year.

[Nagster5]

Does anyone know if Health Insurance is calculated as part of necessary fees and thus covered by the GI Bill or factored in with other Cost of attendance and thus the responsibility of the student? Married with a little one on the way. So my wife will not be working the first year* like we anticipated.

CoA unfortunately.

Am i correct in assuming that you have already chased this to a terminus at UVA?

With the VA. Maybe the finaid department can kungfu the numbers to trick the government somehow, if they can let me know.

I am on the phone with the VA now and basically if the school sends them a bill that says its a mandatory fee, then they pay for it. So ultimately it comes down to FINAID having the brains/balls to handle this properly. This is an absolutely unacceptable grey area and I am now convinced that thousands of students are paying for this when they should not be.

Wow they straight up told me anything besides tuition/book stipend/housing stipend wasn't covered.