Veterans Thread Forum

[TheJanitor6203]

Did she say how many of those 10 slots are currently filled?

I think she said that they're all currently filled, but she also said that several of the slots would open up in the next semester or two due to students graduating.

So did they say how they determine who gets it if there's only 1 spot and 2 students? First come first serve? Merit? Needs?

She was very clear that it's "first come, first served". I don't know if there's any kind of a waiting list, though. I'm hoping that sometime between now and when I start, they'll go back to having unlimited slots instead of just ten.

She also said that there's no way to get a slot prior to being admitted. Basically, after you're admitted, you call her and find if there's even a slot available. Then, you send her all the paperwork and as long as no one's beaten you to it, the slot's yours. I'm pretty sure you can get a slot before you've committed to the school and sent them your seat deposit.

When are you applying? I'm not applying until next cycle. Hopefully it changes back by then.

[ScottRiqui]

When are you applying? I'm not applying until next cycle. Hopefully it changes back by then.

Same here - applying in late 2013 to start in the Fall of 2014.

[TheJanitor6203]

When are you applying? I'm not applying until next cycle. Hopefully it changes back by then.

Same here - applying in late 2013 to start in the Fall of 2014.

Well good luck to you then. Hope to see you in Dallas in about a year and a half!

[ScottRiqui]

When are you applying? I'm not applying until next cycle. Hopefully it changes back by then.

Same here - applying in late 2013 to start in the Fall of 2014.

Well good luck to you then. Hope to see you in Dallas in about a year and a half!

Thanks - same to you! My plan is to take the June 2013 LSAT, retire in May of 2014, get the patent bar knocked out of the way and then start school in the Fall of 2014. I'm really anxious to see how I do on the LSAT, because then I get to find out just how much my crappy 20-year old uGPA is going to hurt me with admissions.

[ScottRiqui]

Different topic:

Am I misunderstanding something, or does the new "payer of last resort" clause in the Post-9/11 GI Bill pretty much make it impossible to obtain federal loans to cover the difference between what the GI Bill pays and the total COA at the school?

Basically, the GI Bill will pay up to ~18k/year at a private school, but all scholarships, stipends, and federal/state financial aid have to be applied to your tuition/fees first. Then, the GI Bill will pay the remaining tuition & fees, up to ~18k. This means that if you apply for federal financial aid, any aid you receive has to be used to pay down your tuition and fees, *before* the GI Bill starts paying.

[unc0mm0n1]

Different topic:

Am I misunderstanding something, or does the new "payer of last resort" clause in the Post-9/11 GI Bill pretty much make it impossible to obtain federal loans to cover the difference between what the GI Bill pays and the total COA at the school?

Basically, the GI Bill will pay up to ~18k/year at a private school, but all scholarships, stipends, and federal/state financial aid have to be applied to your tuition/fees first. Then, the GI Bill will pay the remaining tuition & fees, up to ~18k. This means that if you apply for federal financial aid, any aid you receive has to be used to pay down your tuition and fees, *before* the GI Bill starts paying.

Maybe I'm not understanding this. Would your COLA cover the total cost of attendance. like this

tuition is 30k
cost of living is 15k

total = 45k

You get a 5k scholarship from tuition (25k left to pay) and apply for financial aid.
You get 10 k (15 k left to pay) in financial aide plus an option to take out 15k in loans.
Your GI Bill is applied to that 15 you have left to pay and thus you owe nothing so in this situation you don't need the loans.
But lets say you owed 20k left and the GI Bill cover 18k of it then yes you could take out the 2K in loans.

The 15k living expensives are covered by your Cola. Cola is not enough to live extravagantly but I have a one bedroom place in an urban enviroment and I'm not struggling. If I moved into the dorms I'd have about 1000 dollars (after groceries) of disposable income.

[ScottRiqui]

I may have my terms confused, but when I was talking about federal "financial aid", I was talking about subsidized and unsubsidized loans.

Here's an example, using SMU's numbers from last year:

Tuition/fees - $44k
Total COA - $70k ($26K difference)


GI Bill will pay $18k, and BAH gives you about another $13k for the Dallas area. That leaves you $39k short of meeting the total COA. It used to be that you could get subsidized and/or unsubsidized federal loans for that $39k and you'd be all set.

But now, if you obtain $39k in loans, the VA will say "Oh, you have $39k? You have to put that all toward tuition & fees before we'll start to pay out. So, the VA would end up only paying $5k (the difference between $44k T&F and the $39k from your loan(s). At this point, your tuition and fees are paid for, but you're still $13k short of meeting the total COA and you've left GI Bill money on the table by not using the entire $18k cap.

[ScottRiqui]

Okay, I may have gotten spooled up for nothing. Evidently, "Title IV" federal funds do NOT have to be applied to tuition & fees before the GI Bill is applied, and Title IV funds include the common forms of funding like Pell Grants, Stafford loans, Perkins loans, PLUS loans, and subsidized/unsubsidized Direct Loans - in other words, just about any of the funding sources you get from filling out the FAFSA paperwork.

So using my SMU numbers from last post, you could theoretically secure subsidized/unsubsidized/PLUS loans for the entire $70k COA if you wanted to, and the GI Bill would still pay up to the full $18k cap.

[ScottRiqui]

Is a security clearance worth anything in the law job hunt, other than what is says indirectly about your history and character? I'm in the middle of my five-year reinvestigation now, so my clearance will be current all through law school and for about six months after graduation.

I'm hoping to get into IP law in Dallas, and there are a lot of military contractors in the area, but I don't know if they employ outside counsel for their legal matters, or if they handle everything in-house.

[JCFindley]

You can get a loan in addition to your VA. Frankly, you almost have to even at a school where you are covered at 100%, unless you have a lot of savings.

Theory, GI Bill pays all and all is good.

Reality, I started school in August and my very first penny from the GI Bill came Nov 1st. That is a LONG time to be homeless so the loan was all I had.

(Short answer is you CAN take a lone and that does not effect your GI Bill payment)

[unc0mm0n1]

I may have my terms confused, but when I was talking about federal "financial aid", I was talking about subsidized and unsubsidized loans.

Here's an example, using SMU's numbers from last year:

Tuition/fees - $44k
Total COA - $70k ($26K difference)


GI Bill will pay $18k, and BAH gives you about another $13k for the Dallas area. That leaves you $39k short of meeting the total COA. It used to be that you could get subsidized and/or unsubsidized federal loans for that $39k and you'd be all set.

But now, if you obtain $39k in loans, the VA will say "Oh, you have $39k? You have to put that all toward tuition & fees before we'll start to pay out. So, the VA would end up only paying $5k (the difference between $44k T&F and the $39k from your loan(s). At this point, your tuition and fees are paid for, but you're still $13k short of meeting the total COA and you've left GI Bill money on the table by not using the entire $18k cap.

SMU doesn't have a yellow ribbon program?

[unc0mm0n1]

You can get a loan in addition to your VA. Frankly, you almost have to even at a school where you are covered at 100%, unless you have a lot of savings.

Theory, GI Bill pays all and all is good.

Reality, I started school in August and my very first penny from the GI Bill came Nov 1st. That is a LONG time to be homeless so the loan was all I had.

(Short answer is you CAN take a lone and that does not effect your GI Bill payment)

While I agree with this I don't think the COA is a true estimation of how much school coast. SO my COA is at like 70 something as well, I'd never spend that much money. I mean if you are a single person I see no way you should be spending these crazy prices unless you want to live in a really nice place and spend money for a lot of unnecessary things. In Boston our cola is about $2500/month. If you stay in the dorms or you have a roommate your rent shouldn't be more 1300 but could be as little as 700/mo. So cut it in half a grand for rent, 500/mo for food and clothes, 200/mo for entertainment, 500/mo for transportation and unforeseen events. I think I'm being liberal with most of these numbers and it still leaves you 300 to save. If you are a cheap SOB you could easily get by with only spending 1200/mo and pocketing the rest. I'm not sure if SMU is the same but I know that it does not cost 26k to live in Dallas for 9 months as a single person.

*Just checked, SMU has single occupancy rooms for less than 9k a year.

[ScottRiqui]

I may have my terms confused, but when I was talking about federal "financial aid", I was talking about subsidized and unsubsidized loans.

Here's an example, using SMU's numbers from last year:

Tuition/fees - $44k
Total COA - $70k ($26K difference)


GI Bill will pay $18k, and BAH gives you about another $13k for the Dallas area. That leaves you $39k short of meeting the total COA. It used to be that you could get subsidized and/or unsubsidized federal loans for that $39k and you'd be all set.

But now, if you obtain $39k in loans, the VA will say "Oh, you have $39k? You have to put that all toward tuition & fees before we'll start to pay out. So, the VA would end up only paying $5k (the difference between $44k T&F and the $39k from your loan(s). At this point, your tuition and fees are paid for, but you're still $13k short of meeting the total COA and you've left GI Bill money on the table by not using the entire $18k cap.

SMU doesn't have a yellow ribbon program?

They have a limited number of slots, but I was leaving out YR and scholarships to make the math easier, since they weren't relative to the question.

[unc0mm0n1]

I may have my terms confused, but when I was talking about federal "financial aid", I was talking about subsidized and unsubsidized loans.

Here's an example, using SMU's numbers from last year:

Tuition/fees - $44k
Total COA - $70k ($26K difference)


GI Bill will pay $18k, and BAH gives you about another $13k for the Dallas area. That leaves you $39k short of meeting the total COA. It used to be that you could get subsidized and/or unsubsidized federal loans for that $39k and you'd be all set.

But now, if you obtain $39k in loans, the VA will say "Oh, you have $39k? You have to put that all toward tuition & fees before we'll start to pay out. So, the VA would end up only paying $5k (the difference between $44k T&F and the $39k from your loan(s). At this point, your tuition and fees are paid for, but you're still $13k short of meeting the total COA and you've left GI Bill money on the table by not using the entire $18k cap.

SMU doesn't have a yellow ribbon program?

They have a limited number of slots, but I was leaving out YR and scholarships to make the math easier, since they weren't relative to the question.

Yeah but you'll most likely get YRP and thus not have to pay tuition. If you don't hvae to worry about tuition the math gets real easy. Can you live off the BAH they provide. IMO the answer is yes.

[JCFindley]

You can get a loan in addition to your VA. Frankly, you almost have to even at a school where you are covered at 100%, unless you have a lot of savings.

Theory, GI Bill pays all and all is good.

Reality, I started school in August and my very first penny from the GI Bill came Nov 1st. That is a LONG time to be homeless so the loan was all I had.

(Short answer is you CAN take a lone and that does not effect your GI Bill payment)

While I agree with this I don't think the COA is a true estimation of how much school coast. SO my COA is at like 70 something as well, I'd never spend that much money. I mean if you are a single person I see no way you should be spending these crazy prices unless you want to live in a really nice place and spend money for a lot of unnecessary things. In Boston our cola is about $2500/month. If you stay in the dorms or you have a roommate your rent shouldn't be more 1300 but could be as little as 700/mo. So cut it in half a grand for rent, 500/mo for food and clothes, 200/mo for entertainment, 500/mo for transportation and unforeseen events. I think I'm being liberal with most of these numbers and it still leaves you 300 to save. If you are a cheap SOB you could easily get by with only spending 1200/mo and pocketing the rest. I'm not sure if SMU is the same but I know that it does not cost 26k to live in Dallas for 9 months as a single person.

*Just checked, SMU has single occupancy rooms for less than 9k a year.

Yupp, still tough to live until that first payment comes in. The school will be understanding but landlords generally are not. (I am married with a 6'3" 15 year old eating machine son here as well so that makes it harder to get away living cheaply even with an apartment 1K less than BaH.)

[heythatslife]

A Republic of Korea Navy LTJG (O-2) here. I'm pretty sure I'm the only one active on the board these days, although perhaps not the first one. I'm planning to take the Feb 2013 LSAT so as to apply in the 2013-14 cycle. Will have served 3 years when I get out in 2014. I'm a translator by specialty (we have officers specifically trained for this role), with English/Korean/Arabic as working languages. Arabic apparently is an extremely rare language in the Korean military so I've ended up spending a lot of time on overseas deployments during my short service so far. FWIW, did my UG in the States.

Just wondering - how favorably do adcoms look at foreign military service? Any ideas?

[JCFindley]

A Republic of Korea Navy LTJG (O-2) here. I'm pretty sure I'm the only one active on the board these days, although perhaps not the first one. I'm planning to take the Feb 2013 LSAT so as to apply in the 2013-14 cycle. Will have served 3 years when I get out in 2014. I'm a translator by specialty (we have officers specifically trained for this role), with English/Korean/Arabic as working languages. Arabic apparently is an extremely rare language in the Korean military so I've ended up spending a lot of time on overseas deployments during my short service so far. FWIW, did my UG in the States.

Just wondering - how favorably do adcoms look at foreign military service? Any ideas?

No idea but I know of a couple RoK vets at my school. (anecdotal info of course)

[unc0mm0n1]

You can get a loan in addition to your VA. Frankly, you almost have to even at a school where you are covered at 100%, unless you have a lot of savings.

Theory, GI Bill pays all and all is good.

Reality, I started school in August and my very first penny from the GI Bill came Nov 1st. That is a LONG time to be homeless so the loan was all I had.

(Short answer is you CAN take a lone and that does not effect your GI Bill payment)

While I agree with this I don't think the COA is a true estimation of how much school coast. SO my COA is at like 70 something as well, I'd never spend that much money. I mean if you are a single person I see no way you should be spending these crazy prices unless you want to live in a really nice place and spend money for a lot of unnecessary things. In Boston our cola is about $2500/month. If you stay in the dorms or you have a roommate your rent shouldn't be more 1300 but could be as little as 700/mo. So cut it in half a grand for rent, 500/mo for food and clothes, 200/mo for entertainment, 500/mo for transportation and unforeseen events. I think I'm being liberal with most of these numbers and it still leaves you 300 to save. If you are a cheap SOB you could easily get by with only spending 1200/mo and pocketing the rest. I'm not sure if SMU is the same but I know that it does not cost 26k to live in Dallas for 9 months as a single person.

*Just checked, SMU has single occupancy rooms for less than 9k a year.

Yupp, still tough to live until that first payment comes in. The school will be understanding but landlords generally are not. (I am married with a 6'3" 15 year old eating machine son here as well so that makes it harder to get away living cheaply even with an apartment 1K less than BaH.)

If you're married forget everything I said about BAH being enough. If you have a kid and a spouse who doesn't work, you might want to think about selling a kidney.

[unc0mm0n1]

A Republic of Korea Navy LTJG (O-2) here. I'm pretty sure I'm the only one active on the board these days, although perhaps not the first one. I'm planning to take the Feb 2013 LSAT so as to apply in the 2013-14 cycle. Will have served 3 years when I get out in 2014. I'm a translator by specialty (we have officers specifically trained for this role), with English/Korean/Arabic as working languages. Arabic apparently is an extremely rare language in the Korean military so I've ended up spending a lot of time on overseas deployments during my short service so far. FWIW, did my UG in the States.

Just wondering - how favorably do adcoms look at foreign military service? Any ideas?

Don't know either. I only know a few foreign military students and I don't know any of their numbers.

[heythatslife]

A Republic of Korea Navy LTJG (O-2) here. I'm pretty sure I'm the only one active on the board these days, although perhaps not the first one. I'm planning to take the Feb 2013 LSAT so as to apply in the 2013-14 cycle. Will have served 3 years when I get out in 2014. I'm a translator by specialty (we have officers specifically trained for this role), with English/Korean/Arabic as working languages. Arabic apparently is an extremely rare language in the Korean military so I've ended up spending a lot of time on overseas deployments during my short service so far. FWIW, did my UG in the States.

Just wondering - how favorably do adcoms look at foreign military service? Any ideas?

No idea but I know of a couple RoK vets at my school. (anecdotal info of course)

That's not surprising since most Korean males in their late twenties or older will have completed some form of military service, barring medical conditions and certain other exceptions.

[JCFindley]

You can get a loan in addition to your VA. Frankly, you almost have to even at a school where you are covered at 100%, unless you have a lot of savings.

Theory, GI Bill pays all and all is good.

Reality, I started school in August and my very first penny from the GI Bill came Nov 1st. That is a LONG time to be homeless so the loan was all I had.

(Short answer is you CAN take a lone and that does not effect your GI Bill payment)

While I agree with this I don't think the COA is a true estimation of how much school coast. SO my COA is at like 70 something as well, I'd never spend that much money. I mean if you are a single person I see no way you should be spending these crazy prices unless you want to live in a really nice place and spend money for a lot of unnecessary things. In Boston our cola is about $2500/month. If you stay in the dorms or you have a roommate your rent shouldn't be more 1300 but could be as little as 700/mo. So cut it in half a grand for rent, 500/mo for food and clothes, 200/mo for entertainment, 500/mo for transportation and unforeseen events. I think I'm being liberal with most of these numbers and it still leaves you 300 to save. If you are a cheap SOB you could easily get by with only spending 1200/mo and pocketing the rest. I'm not sure if SMU is the same but I know that it does not cost 26k to live in Dallas for 9 months as a single person.

*Just checked, SMU has single occupancy rooms for less than 9k a year.

Yupp, still tough to live until that first payment comes in. The school will be understanding but landlords generally are not. (I am married with a 6'3" 15 year old eating machine son here as well so that makes it harder to get away living cheaply even with an apartment 1K less than BaH.)

If you're married forget everything I said about BAH being enough. If you have a kid and a spouse who doesn't work, you might want to think about selling a kidney.

If i could sell it I would but learned in Property class that I cannot.

At least my wife works but seriously, the eating machine alone takes up a lot of her check.

[TheJanitor6203]

Hopefully it will be worth it in a few years!

[Ex Cearulo]

Well, I received the official answer this evening that the Air Force is not releasing me from flying to apply to law school. While I've heard the party line enough over the last few years to know that a release would be difficult, it's still very disappointing. I wanted this so bad and I've spent the last several months going through the application process so I wouldn't be behind if the answer was yes.

On top of that, my commander simultaneously dropped the news that the move date for my next assignment is being moved up by about 6 months and that they need my requests for jobs/bases by next week.

So I won't be applying to law school for about 6 more years. Maybe by 9 years from now when I graduate one of you will be a hiring partner and can hook me up.

It's been real, TLS. I've gotta go figure out a prioritized request list of where to move my family...

[Ramius]

Well, I received the official answer this evening that the Air Force is not releasing me from flying to apply to law school. While I've heard the party line enough over the last few years to know that a release would be difficult, it's still very disappointing. I wanted this so bad and I've spent the last several months going through the application process so I wouldn't be behind if the answer was yes.

On top of that, my commander simultaneously dropped the news that the move date for my next assignment is being moved up by about 6 months and that they need my requests for jobs/bases by next week.

So I won't be applying to law school for about 6 more years. Maybe one of you will be a hiring partner by then and can hook me up.

It's been real, TLS. I've gotta go figure out a prioritized request list of where to move my family...

Jesus, it's scary how similar a situation we are in, regardless of the fact that we're in completely different services. Once they have their hooks in you, they refuse to let go.

That being said, I'm still holding out the remaining ~1% chance that the Navy will take care of me, even though I realize how ridiculous that will be. I hope you get posted in a job you can use to leverage positions in the future though. I'm not sure it's universal across services, but from what I know in the Navy, the right billet can make all the difference in leveraging positions after the fact!

Don't lose hope, you're setting up your life for success!

[TheJanitor6203]

Well, I received the official answer this evening that the Air Force is not releasing me from flying to apply to law school. While I've heard the party line enough over the last few years to know that a release would be difficult, it's still very disappointing. I wanted this so bad and I've spent the last several months going through the application process so I wouldn't be behind if the answer was yes.

On top of that, my commander simultaneously dropped the news that the move date for my next assignment is being moved up by about 6 months and that they need my requests for jobs/bases by next week.

So I won't be applying to law school for about 6 more years. Maybe by 9 years from now when I graduate one of you will be a hiring partner and can hook me up.

It's been real, TLS. I've gotta go figure out a prioritized request list of where to move my family...

I may catch some crap for this but next week I'm going to talk to legal about any chance I may have at a voluntary early seperation from the Army. I've got 7 1/2 years in with just over a year left and I'm dying inside. I can't take it anymore and I want nothing more than to just get out so I can finish my bachelor degree without the Army continusly screwing with me. I think I've had to drop more classes in the past 2 years than I've actually taken because I keep having to go do some b.s. training or some other crap. I have no hope of anything coming out of my meeting next week but I can't stop thinking that it just might work...