3.61/161 Military Vet

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bradleydee16
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3.61/161 Military Vet

Postby bradleydee16 » Sat Oct 29, 2011 6:14 pm

I am currently a CPT and an Army Explosive Ordnance Disposal Officer with 4 years of service. I have been an operations officer, company commander and have worked several times with Secret Service. Thus being said I have a fair amount of leadership experience during my time on active duty and military school. I don't expect these "soft factors" to get me into a T-14. I've looked at those law school predictors and I'm wondering if these factors help me out for those "Considered" schools that I'm at about 40%. I don't know if being an EOD tech will help bring diversity to a school? If anyone can give me a general idea where I stand in the T-50 I'd greatly appreciate it.

EMZE
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Re: 3.61/161 Military Vet

Postby EMZE » Sat Oct 29, 2011 6:49 pm

Fellow vet, cpt, infantry,

My buddy last year got william and mary with a 3.4/161. If FLEP interests you, that would be a great option.

If you can retake and get your score over 165, you would be much more competitive for T14. Are you applying for this cycle or next?

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ThomasMN
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Re: 3.61/161 Military Vet

Postby ThomasMN » Sat Oct 29, 2011 6:58 pm

I may not be of much help, but I was accepted ED to UVA with a 165/3.9x. In my acceptance phone call they mentioned my military background and academic success out of the military ( former infantry SSG) as making my application very strong. Having talked to some of the veterans at UVA, they have all said that the military background is actually more of a plus during OCI than admissions. Just study hard, knock the next LSAT out of the park, and I'm sure you'll be accepted into the T-14 easy.

EMZE
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Re: 3.61/161 Military Vet

Postby EMZE » Sat Oct 29, 2011 7:13 pm

And, FWIW, only people in EOD think EOD is cool.

On a serious note though, if you want to use your EOD (not cool) experience as a plus, I would totally use my PS to detail one particular mission and everything going though your mind while wearing a 120lb bomb suit in 130 degrees while disarming a 2000lb bomb... or... how crazy it was watching your little R2D2 do all the work for you

bradleydee16
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Re: 3.61/161 Military Vet

Postby bradleydee16 » Sat Oct 29, 2011 7:17 pm

I'm applying this cycle but i also want to retake. I messed up the first LR section and it cost me 4 points or so. I am interested in FLEP as well. How Hard is it to get accepted and what are the limitations as far as tuition.

EMZE
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Re: 3.61/161 Military Vet

Postby EMZE » Sat Oct 29, 2011 10:08 pm

Bradley,

If you want to apply for FLEP this year, you need to get moving on it pronto. I think the window for this year closes very very soon. This is based on my knowledge of last years FLEP application. I think last year it was either early Nov, or early Dec. I know that they dont take anything later than the Oct LSAT, so you will be applying with a 161. That is fine, because the average for FLEP last year was a 161, so you should be good. FLEP looks for officers who can contribute some real Army knowledge to the JAG corps, which is 99% people straight out of law school that become captains immediately and struggle to remember which side the flag goes on the uniform. Your experience needs to be your selling point, and that you offer the JAG corps real experience and knowledge. All that said though, I am not sure if EOD lets people go that east.

For the FLEP packet, I believe you need 2 LORs, including one from an O-6, an interview with the post SJA, your transcript, LSAT report, and an essay. Again, this was as of last year. I was going to apply for this year, but am MEB'ing instead. FLEP is pretty selective, but if you have hooah schools, that will help. And like I said, your LSAT is right at the average. Only like 12 people or so a year get picked for it. The board is held in early December, so yeah, you'll need to get cracking on it ASAP. I would peruse the MILPER messages, as there will be one outlining the FLEP requirements.

As far as tuiton goes, I am pretty sure it caps (at least last year it did) at 30k a year, but most (public) schools give in-state tuition. I know a guy 2 years ago that as accepted to Harvard but had to decline because the tuition exceeded the limit. Some schools ar every pro-FLEP, like William and Mary. Also, the JAG corps has become much more selective. My BDE assistant JAG graduated from Washburn, but nowadays they are only taking Tier 1 ish schools. This is not a rule, but has been a trend.

I have a close friend that I can put you in touch with regarding FLEP, as he is a 1L doing the program now. He loves that he is going to school for free, yet still making a solid 80k a year (he is a 5 year captain) since you get paid while in school. It is pretty sweet when you consider that doing it on your own vs FLEP gives about a 350k difference between no tuition and gettng a salary. He loves where he is at (W&M). Your best bet though may just be to contact your nearest JAG , though I don't know how EOD units are structured, but i imagine you have one at the BDE (or equivalent) level. I am sure s/he will either know a FLEP, or know the requirements, since that is sorta part of their job to, to inform those interested in that career path.

Post here or PM me if you have any other questions. I am by no means a SME, but I know enough gossip about it to get by.

bradleydee16
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Re: 3.61/161 Military Vet

Postby bradleydee16 » Mon Nov 21, 2011 3:38 pm

EMZE wrote:Bradley,

If you want to apply for FLEP this year, you need to get moving on it pronto. I think the window for this year closes very very soon. This is based on my knowledge of last years FLEP application. I think last year it was either early Nov, or early Dec. I know that they dont take anything later than the Oct LSAT, so you will be applying with a 161. That is fine, because the average for FLEP last year was a 161, so you should be good. FLEP looks for officers who can contribute some real Army knowledge to the JAG corps, which is 99% people straight out of law school that become captains immediately and struggle to remember which side the flag goes on the uniform. Your experience needs to be your selling point, and that you offer the JAG corps real experience and knowledge. All that said though, I am not sure if EOD lets people go that east.

For the FLEP packet, I believe you need 2 LORs, including one from an O-6, an interview with the post SJA, your transcript, LSAT report, and an essay. Again, this was as of last year. I was going to apply for this year, but am MEB'ing instead. FLEP is pretty selective, but if you have hooah schools, that will help. And like I said, your LSAT is right at the average. Only like 12 people or so a year get picked for it. The board is held in early December, so yeah, you'll need to get cracking on it ASAP. I would peruse the MILPER messages, as there will be one outlining the FLEP requirements.

As far as tuiton goes, I am pretty sure it caps (at least last year it did) at 30k a year, but most (public) schools give in-state tuition. I know a guy 2 years ago that as accepted to Harvard but had to decline because the tuition exceeded the limit. Some schools ar every pro-FLEP, like William and Mary. Also, the JAG corps has become much more selective. My BDE assistant JAG graduated from Washburn, but nowadays they are only taking Tier 1 ish schools. This is not a rule, but has been a trend.

I have a close friend that I can put you in touch with regarding FLEP, as he is a 1L doing the program now. He loves that he is going to school for free, yet still making a solid 80k a year (he is a 5 year captain) since you get paid while in school. It is pretty sweet when you consider that doing it on your own vs FLEP gives about a 350k difference between no tuition and gettng a salary. He loves where he is at (W&M). Your best bet though may just be to contact your nearest JAG , though I don't know how EOD units are structured, but i imagine you have one at the BDE (or equivalent) level. I am sure s/he will either know a FLEP, or know the requirements, since that is sorta part of their job to, to inform those interested in that career path.

Post here or PM me if you have any other questions. I am by no means a SME, but I know enough gossip about it to get by.

Sorry, I'm replying so late. I think I missed the boat for FLEP this year. My ETS is in May so I think I might be out of luck with that. I had to go TDY in June so I had to push the LSAT back to October. I guess I was waiting on the LSAT to really weigh my options. I'm still debating if I want to retake or take what I can get with a 161. My wife is from Miami and we have a lot of family there so I guess I'm leaning towards UM and doing National Guard? I'm not sold on it though. I'm still pissed about the LSAT because I know I can do better. My only concern is what kind of career prospects there are coming out of UM. Everyone on these forums pretty much says law school is the worst choice ever and even if you go to Yale there's a 80% chance you'll end up homeless and unemployed. I'm not the typical college kid I have a wife and kid. Also like you were saying the 80K salary is tough to give up. I'm considering hanging around to get a shot at FLEP but my fear is I won't get picked up and end up being a staff CPT for a few more years (terrifying).

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SemperLegal
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Re: 3.61/161 Military Vet

Postby SemperLegal » Mon Nov 21, 2011 3:50 pm

EMZE wrote:And, FWIW, only people in EOD think EOD is cool.

On a serious note though, if you want to use your EOD (not cool) experience as a plus, I would totally use my PS to detail one particular mission and everything going though your mind while wearing a 120lb bomb suit in 130 degrees while disarming a 2000lb bomb... or... how crazy it was watching your little R2D2 do all the work for you


We prefer the term "enlisted men." :D

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Kring345
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Re: 3.61/161 Military Vet

Postby Kring345 » Mon Nov 21, 2011 3:59 pm

SemperLegal wrote:
EMZE wrote:And, FWIW, only people in EOD think EOD is cool.

On a serious note though, if you want to use your EOD (not cool) experience as a plus, I would totally use my PS to detail one particular mission and everything going though your mind while wearing a 120lb bomb suit in 130 degrees while disarming a 2000lb bomb... or... how crazy it was watching your little R2D2 do all the work for you


We prefer the term "enlisted men." :D

Or "PFC" specifically.

EMZE
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Re: 3.61/161 Military Vet

Postby EMZE » Mon Nov 21, 2011 4:16 pm

bradleydee16 wrote:
EMZE wrote:Bradley,

If you want to apply for FLEP this year, you need to get moving on it pronto. I think the window for this year closes very very soon. This is based on my knowledge of last years FLEP application. I think last year it was either early Nov, or early Dec. I know that they dont take anything later than the Oct LSAT, so you will be applying with a 161. That is fine, because the average for FLEP last year was a 161, so you should be good. FLEP looks for officers who can contribute some real Army knowledge to the JAG corps, which is 99% people straight out of law school that become captains immediately and struggle to remember which side the flag goes on the uniform. Your experience needs to be your selling point, and that you offer the JAG corps real experience and knowledge. All that said though, I am not sure if EOD lets people go that east.

For the FLEP packet, I believe you need 2 LORs, including one from an O-6, an interview with the post SJA, your transcript, LSAT report, and an essay. Again, this was as of last year. I was going to apply for this year, but am MEB'ing instead. FLEP is pretty selective, but if you have hooah schools, that will help. And like I said, your LSAT is right at the average. Only like 12 people or so a year get picked for it. The board is held in early December, so yeah, you'll need to get cracking on it ASAP. I would peruse the MILPER messages, as there will be one outlining the FLEP requirements.

As far as tuiton goes, I am pretty sure it caps (at least last year it did) at 30k a year, but most (public) schools give in-state tuition. I know a guy 2 years ago that as accepted to Harvard but had to decline because the tuition exceeded the limit. Some schools ar every pro-FLEP, like William and Mary. Also, the JAG corps has become much more selective. My BDE assistant JAG graduated from Washburn, but nowadays they are only taking Tier 1 ish schools. This is not a rule, but has been a trend.

I have a close friend that I can put you in touch with regarding FLEP, as he is a 1L doing the program now. He loves that he is going to school for free, yet still making a solid 80k a year (he is a 5 year captain) since you get paid while in school. It is pretty sweet when you consider that doing it on your own vs FLEP gives about a 350k difference between no tuition and gettng a salary. He loves where he is at (W&M). Your best bet though may just be to contact your nearest JAG , though I don't know how EOD units are structured, but i imagine you have one at the BDE (or equivalent) level. I am sure s/he will either know a FLEP, or know the requirements, since that is sorta part of their job to, to inform those interested in that career path.

Post here or PM me if you have any other questions. I am by no means a SME, but I know enough gossip about it to get by.

Sorry, I'm replying so late. I think I missed the boat for FLEP this year. My ETS is in May so I think I might be out of luck with that. I had to go TDY in June so I had to push the LSAT back to October. I guess I was waiting on the LSAT to really weigh my options. I'm still debating if I want to retake or take what I can get with a 161. My wife is from Miami and we have a lot of family there so I guess I'm leaning towards UM and doing National Guard? I'm not sold on it though. I'm still pissed about the LSAT because I know I can do better. My only concern is what kind of career prospects there are coming out of UM. Everyone on these forums pretty much says law school is the worst choice ever and even if you go to Yale there's a 80% chance you'll end up homeless and unemployed. I'm not the typical college kid I have a wife and kid. Also like you were saying the 80K salary is tough to give up. I'm considering hanging around to get a shot at FLEP but my fear is I won't get picked up and end up being a staff CPT for a few more years (terrifying).


Well, FLEP has an 8 year time in service window of eligibility, so you won't miss that boat (unless you have enlisted time). If you know you can do better, I would recommend retaking, especially if you are going to wait a cycle to decide on doing FLEP or going as a civilian. Personally, I took the test twice, and the first time around I scored a lot lower than my lowest practice test, even lower than my diagnostic. I retook and scored 10 points higher, which is an absolute game changer. Now at least I can apply to some of the T-14 without feeling like I am just providing the admissions committees with something to laugh at. I also found that the second time, I was much more honed in and familiar with how the feel of an actual LSAT.

If you want to work in Miami, UM would obviously be a good choice as well as UF, though neither will guarantee you an all around better shot at jobs if Miami doesn't work out.

The fact that you have 4 years in, and are already in a specialty officer MOS leads me to believe you should have at least another year worth of time at your current duty station (factoring in time spent in your initial branch, then the year spent at EOD school and probably 1-2 years at current location). Would it be possible to ride out your current position and suck it up as a staff officer for a year? While a couple years of direct leadership experience is great, some time spent in the S3 as an operations officer and planning at the operational level also shows progression and in some ways a higher level of "big picture" responsibility for your resume. Even in my personal situation, I am being MEB'd out of the Army so I don't have that backup to just stay in, but I am going to see how my application cycle goes and if I don't get into a school I feel is worth going to, I will wait and retake in June. In the interim, I am really not sure what to do, and am considering taking the GMAT since that is a (debatably) easier test and just going to a B-school with a law school I want to go to. This is because B-schools give veterans a much more substantial boost than do law schools, since management/leadership skills translate better from military to corporate than to law. This is also, mind you, a risky course of action since I may well not ultimately get into the law school of my choosing, but just an option I am considering that may work for you too.

All told though, if staying in guarantees the opportunity for an income, to continue to build your resume, take care of your family, and to retake the LSAT, at least sleep more easily knowing that you are not in the same boat as those who are graduating college and are not sure if they will be able to secure employment or live in their parents basement while they reapply next cycle.

rckybbby
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Re: 3.61/161 Military Vet

Postby rckybbby » Mon Nov 21, 2011 10:12 pm

EMZE wrote:And, FWIW, only people in EOD think EOD is cool.

On a serious note though, if you want to use your EOD (not cool) experience as a plus, I would totally use my PS to detail one particular mission and everything going though your mind while wearing a 120lb bomb suit in 130 degrees while disarming a 2000lb bomb... or... how crazy it was watching your little R2D2 do all the work for you


classic




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