ps - abortion

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Glock
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Re: ps - abortion

Postby Glock » Sun Oct 23, 2011 3:01 pm

admisionquestion wrote:While I agree with the the claim that this is a terrible idea--it is only because your story is not particularly compelling...or interesting.

I disagree with the perpetual claim that issues like abortion are to remain taboo in this type of setting. I think the logic is the opposite. 1/2 of the population hates abortion--the other 1/2 half is incredible sympathetic to those smart enough to get an abortion... Strictly speaking--- if you apply to two schools with a 50/50 shot of yes and your admission is dependent on one person--you have a solid shot of wooing one...




A lot less than 50% of the population is personally receptive to elective abortion. The way the polling works is actually pretty stupid because the polls ask themselves to identify themselves as pro-life or pro-choice. When you look at the lower sections of the poll, 75% of people think it should be illegal in all circumstances (25-30%) or illegal in most circumstances (45-50%). The single position that attracts the most support usually something like "abortion should be legal in the case of rape, incest, or danger to the mother, but illegal otherwise."

The two publicly palatable positions are "I support the right to choose but personally find elective abortion morally wrong," and "I oppose abortion except in the case of rape, incest, or danger to the mother."

I'm just saying it is not a 50/50 shot and certain pro-abortion positions are not great even among generally pro-choice people. If I were OP I would talk about women's rights or some other 80%+ portion of the population supporting shit.

sumner
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Re: ps - abortion

Postby sumner » Sun Oct 23, 2011 5:37 pm

pepsip wrote:I know abortion can be an incredibly controversial topic but it really is what made me want to become a lawyer. I was 18, had unprotected sex and had to face the incredible decision of having the child or not. When I was at the clinic the woman next to me and I began to speak and she told me that she was being forced into having an abortion by her partner, that he said if she did not he would leave her, never pay for the child and she would be left entirely alone. In that moment I was so angry and decided woman such as her deserved someone to go to bat for them. is this too much of a touchy subject though?


I'm no legal expert (yet) but explain to me why this woman needed a lawyer at that point? maybe in the future if she really wasn't getting child support but at this point she needed a friend or family member to knock sense into he partner, not a lawyer. your story as written seems to suggest that you believe that her personal choice to have the baby would be a legal issue, which I don't believe it is.

Mal Reynolds
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Re: ps - abortion

Postby Mal Reynolds » Sun Oct 23, 2011 5:44 pm

When I clicked on this thread to read the rectangle advertisement above said, "pregnant? considering adoption?" I have nothing to contribute but I thought I would share; it made me Lolz.

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medialoop
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Re: ps - abortion

Postby medialoop » Sun Oct 23, 2011 5:52 pm

Mentioning your own abortion sounds like a terrible idea (unless the focus of your whole PS is this tough choice and how you made it... which is still probably a bad idea), but I'm not sure why everyone thinks that talking about the other woman would be so bad, in terms of a potentially pro-choice adcomm member. It sounds like, if anything, that story leans pro-life: that is, she didn't want an abortion but felt she had no choice, not a good situation for anyone (and not particularly offensive for a pro-life person). That said, someone else mentioned that this didn't necessarily sound like a legal issue, unless you tie it to how you want to help single mothers get child support so that they never have to make a tough choice like that, etc...

But yeah. It's so touchy that it would be really difficult to do right, and you're probably better off just writing about something else.

AriGoldButNicer
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Re: ps - abortion

Postby AriGoldButNicer » Sun Oct 23, 2011 5:58 pm

I think it's a lose-lose bec while most people, particularly in academia are open minded, some are not. And even people like myself who are pro-abortion would say bs. Your shocking life turning experience is having an abortion, and speaking to one woman one time in a waiting room. Did you keep in touch? Have you tracked her since? If not, all I get from you on this convo is you can meet people in waiting rooms, have empathy and like unprotected sex.

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174
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Re: ps - abortion

Postby 174 » Sun Oct 23, 2011 6:02 pm

This might work if you keep the tone light. Maybe work in some humor.

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89vision
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Re: ps - abortion

Postby 89vision » Sun Oct 23, 2011 6:08 pm

Wouldn't the woman's partner have to legally pay child support? That was a bit confusing in the woman's reasoning to have an abortion.

Why did the experience make you want to become a lawyer? I took your paragraph as "seeing a woman getting pressured into having an abortion (keep in mind she could have been using these factors to justify the abortion versus explaining it) made me want to practice law." And, to me, social work would be more conducive to helping single moms. Obviously your description was brief, but if you could clarify the "why" aspect it would increase my understanding.

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paratactical
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Re: ps - abortion

Postby paratactical » Sun Oct 23, 2011 6:15 pm

174 wrote:This might work if you keep the tone light. Maybe work in some humor.

I think a few jokes would really lighten the tone and might make the touchy subject matter go over better.

afitouri
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Re: ps - abortion

Postby afitouri » Sun Oct 23, 2011 6:45 pm

A topic like abortion is needlessly risky. Could it work? Anything could work. Is it your best shot? No, no it is not your best shot. In all likelihood, you will offend someone or a few people. Why risk it? Why risk one of the most important essays in your life, when there is no reason to?

In my experience studying persuasive writing I will tell you that you must write appropriately for your audience, and when you do not know your audience specifically you should stick to hollywood-esque motifs. Things that would appeal to mass humanity throughout the world. Love, envy, forgiveness, reunions, greed, revenge, family, heroism, and so on.

So keep it safe. Talk about passion, about love, about a family experience, about a personal triumph, about someone who tried to hold you back, and so on. Think of an experience that could be a Hollywood script, and then write it well enough to have them cheering and crying at the end of it.

And no matter whether people support or deny abortion, nobody is cheering for the girl who gets an abortion; and they're also not cheering for the barefoot trailer park girl who should have gotten an abortion but instead leaves her kid at an orphanage. It's a lose-lose. In my opinion at least.

But then again, I'm not on an admissions board.

kaiser
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Re: ps - abortion

Postby kaiser » Sun Oct 23, 2011 7:02 pm

afitouri wrote:A topic like abortion is needlessly risky. Could it work? Anything could work. Is it your best shot? No, no it is not your best shot. In all likelihood, you will offend someone or a few people. Why risk it? Why risk one of the most important essays in your life, when there is no reason to?

In my experience studying persuasive writing I will tell you that you must write appropriately for your audience, and when you do not know your audience specifically you should stick to hollywood-esque motifs. Things that would appeal to mass humanity throughout the world. Love, envy, forgiveness, reunions, greed, revenge, family, heroism, and so on.

So keep it safe. Talk about passion, about love, about a family experience, about a personal triumph, about someone who tried to hold you back, and so on. Think of an experience that could be a Hollywood script, and then write it well enough to have them cheering and crying at the end of it.

And no matter whether people support or deny abortion, nobody is cheering for the girl who gets an abortion; and they're also not cheering for the barefoot trailer park girl who should have gotten an abortion but instead leaves her kid at an orphanage. It's a lose-lose. In my opinion at least.

But then again, I'm not on an admissions board.


I think this post sums it up well. The topic is needlessly risky, and you interests and passion can be conveyed without touching upon such a sensitive subject. A PS leaves little room for explanation, and much of it is immediate gut reaction. They will glance at this thing for 2 minutes, and your first impression will be your only impression. And like the last poster mentions, no one is cheering for someone who gets an abortion. Hell, I am as pro-choice as one can get, yet will always look down on people who get them. Is that justified in all scenarios? Couldn't there be context that would change my gut reaction? Of course it isn't justified in all cases, and of course there might be a greater context that alters my view in a particular case. But my gut reaction is the same. And that is all you are trying to work off of; a gut reaction. So don't use this, since you will inevitably have some judgmental person like me read it and take a negative view of you before you even have a chance to explain yourself.

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174
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Re: ps - abortion

Postby 174 » Sun Oct 23, 2011 7:12 pm

kaiser wrote:Hell, I am as pro-choice as one can get, yet will always look down on people who get them.


Wow, really?

kaiser
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Re: ps - abortion

Postby kaiser » Sun Oct 23, 2011 7:16 pm

174 wrote:
kaiser wrote:Hell, I am as pro-choice as one can get, yet will always look down on people who get them.


Wow, really?


Absolutely. I am pro choice because I don't think governments should be able to tell people what to do with their bodies in that sense. We owe no obligation to government to make such a choice one particular way. That choice should be guided by morals, not government. And my morals would dictate that one make the choice of life. But inherent in that belief is that people would make that choice on their own volition. Sure, I hope their choice comes out one way vs. the other, but I would never deprive them of that important choice. But this thread isn't about my views on abortion or anyone else's. I was merely using it at a proxy to explain that the random average reader might not get the best impression from this PS. So my personal views are moot to this discussion.

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174
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Re: ps - abortion

Postby 174 » Sun Oct 23, 2011 7:17 pm

kaiser wrote:So my personal views are moot to this discussion.

True. But you still sound like a douche.

kaiser
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Re: ps - abortion

Postby kaiser » Sun Oct 23, 2011 7:21 pm

174 wrote:
kaiser wrote:So my personal views are moot to this discussion.

True. But you still sound like a douche.


No doubt. But at least I am honest about how judgmental I can be (as unfair as that is to other people). I'm not delusional about it. its a fault of mine I've always had, and I'm at least willing to admit to it. Probably just my way of reflecting my own insecurity onto others or something subconscious like that.

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174
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Re: ps - abortion

Postby 174 » Sun Oct 23, 2011 7:22 pm

kaiser wrote:
174 wrote:
kaiser wrote:So my personal views are moot to this discussion.

True. But you still sound like a douche.


No doubt. But at least I am honest about how judgmental I can be (as unfair as that is to other people). I'm not delusional about it. its a fault of mine I've always had, and I'm at least willing to admit to it. Probably just my way of reflecting my own insecurity onto others or something subconscious like that.


Probably.

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TaipeiMort
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Re: ps - abortion

Postby TaipeiMort » Sun Oct 23, 2011 7:23 pm

I am grateful that you had the courage to come on here and share about an issue that is sensitive and formative in your life. With all respect, this is how I believe writing this PS will effect those reading it:

1) Pro-life admissions committee members (some, not many): Strong bias against you/ will question your judgement/ feel extreme disgust towards you, or at the very least will not fight for you.

2) Indifferent/ no strong opinion on the issue (most): Will question your judgment, think that you shared too personal of information, or at the very least will give you a soft negative because you couldn't find a more positive way to highlight/ market your strengths and reveal your character.

3) Pro-Choice admissions committee members (a small group as well): Will still question your judgement in sharing such personal information with strangers to get into law school. A few might gun for you, but do you really want to be identified as "the abortion girl" throughout the cycle when lined up along side "the Rhoades Scholar," "The McKinsey Gal," and the "Rocket Scientist?"

Finally and most importantly:

All admissions committees are sensitive about bringing in those that will stir up the class in negative ways. 1Ls are already some of the worst people in the world. Placing fringers (aka those who feel strong enough about controversial issues to self-identify with them in public) in an already stressed class is worrisome.

Finally, negatives in the process can hurt you badly, and soft positives have the ability to help you only at the margin. Why take the risk?
Last edited by TaipeiMort on Sun Oct 23, 2011 7:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.

kaiser
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Re: ps - abortion

Postby kaiser » Sun Oct 23, 2011 7:24 pm

174 wrote:
kaiser wrote:
174 wrote:
kaiser wrote:So my personal views are moot to this discussion.

True. But you still sound like a douche.


No doubt. But at least I am honest about how judgmental I can be (as unfair as that is to other people). I'm not delusional about it. its a fault of mine I've always had, and I'm at least willing to admit to it. Probably just my way of reflecting my own insecurity onto others or something subconscious like that.


Probably.


But again, I'd like to stress that I am merely judgmental in my initial gut reactions to things. I am always willing to hear people out and understand their sides. But the point I was trying to make is that, if OP gets a judgmental person who gets a bad gut reaction, she won't have that ability. I'm actually pretty open-minded once I hear people out. And maybe most adcoms would be as well. But because you never reach that stage, you don't want to take a chance.

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Naked Dude
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Re: ps - abortion

Postby Naked Dude » Sun Oct 23, 2011 7:35 pm

--ImageRemoved--

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so_fetch
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Re: ps - abortion

Postby so_fetch » Sun Oct 23, 2011 8:05 pm

Just frame it as
1. one day at age of x i was waiting at doctor/gynecologist office (reason = we assume you are just getting like routine checkup)
2. began talking to person next to you named "x" who looked distraught. talk about her story
3. this really outraged me and I really care about making sure women aren't in this situation. Focus more on the fact that she had this controlling/abusive relationship, no ability to get out of it, perhaps lack of access to birth control methods, now she is in an exceedingly difficult situation no woman today should face
4. want to go into career giving power to women who don't have power and are facing difficult personal situations like domestic abuse etc. Need safe medical care
5. maybe talk about other things in your background that relate to this topic (volunteer experience, took a class, something like that). This + law school is going to help me make a difference in the lives of woman like "x"

delusional
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Re: ps - abortion

Postby delusional » Sun Oct 23, 2011 8:17 pm

paratactical wrote:
174 wrote:This might work if you keep the tone light. Maybe work in some humor.

I think a few jokes would really lighten the tone and might make the touchy subject matter go over better.

Even better, make it a rap.

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Kabuo
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Re: ps - abortion

Postby Kabuo » Sun Oct 23, 2011 8:34 pm

This is the kind of PS that will become a legend amongst admissions offices. Especially if you take the on point advice about weaving humor into it to make it more palatable for the anti-abortion readers.

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paratactical
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Re: ps - abortion

Postby paratactical » Sun Oct 23, 2011 8:38 pm

delusional wrote:
paratactical wrote:
174 wrote:This might work if you keep the tone light. Maybe work in some humor.

I think a few jokes would really lighten the tone and might make the touchy subject matter go over better.

Even better, make it a rap.

Video tape puppet show.

PersuasiveCharm
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Re: ps - abortion

Postby PersuasiveCharm » Mon Oct 24, 2011 1:07 am

Don't do it.

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Bildungsroman
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Re: ps - abortion

Postby Bildungsroman » Mon Oct 24, 2011 1:19 am

paratactical wrote:
delusional wrote:
paratactical wrote:
174 wrote:This might work if you keep the tone light. Maybe work in some humor.

I think a few jokes would really lighten the tone and might make the touchy subject matter go over better.

Even better, make it a rap.

Video tape puppet show.

I tried so hard to find a picture of a muppet holding a vacuum cleaner, but to no avail.

flcath
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Re: ps - abortion

Postby flcath » Mon Oct 24, 2011 2:18 am

Let's say you have objectively sub-T13 numbers.

I think this would be a good ps topic for high-end reaches, particularly Berkeley.




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