Warning to all 0L's

(Applications Advice, Letters of Recommendation . . . )
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Bronte
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Re: Warning to all 0L's

Postby Bronte » Thu Oct 27, 2011 7:38 pm

SYoshi11 wrote:I mean, is it economically worth it? Will I make money? Can I hit the 160k? Can I stay employed?


It's economically worth it. Almost everyone who wants one can get a $160k job.

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JCougar
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Re: Warning to all 0L's

Postby JCougar » Thu Oct 27, 2011 7:41 pm

SYoshi11 wrote:I mean, is it economically worth it? Will I make money? Can I hit the 160k? Can I stay employed?


You can hit the 160k. The question is: is 6 years of Biglaw worth it to pay off your debt? If you can get into Harvard, you could probably also go somewhere else that is very good for close to free, and not be bound by biglaw after you graduate. Most of the people in Biglaw are doing it for the money...not because it's a rewarding job. There's far better jobs out there when it comes to training and hands-on experience. Some people like it, but I think they are rare. Unless you want to do secondary market biglaw, most associates in the big cities don't make it past 5-6 years, whether it's because they quit or get laid off.

bartleby
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Re: Warning to all 0L's

Postby bartleby » Thu Oct 27, 2011 9:04 pm

romothesavior wrote:
bartleby wrote:
LAWSCHOOLREALITY wrote:
bartleby wrote:I'm on near-full scholarship and I sorta regret LS right now. I'm an idiot so I took out a good amount of loans anyway to live nicely (2 months of rent > my entire first year tuition; 12 months rent > my entire ls tuition). But law school is hard. And competitive. People are lame. Gossip a lot. A lot of haters.

I went to ls because grad school just isn't feasible. It's like 100x worse than law school. Grad school is funded for like 2 people out of a pool of 100, and you better hope James Franco isn't one of the 100. Career prospects are like a zillion times worse - definitely worse than a NYLS grad.


Drop out


I might if I'm not top 10%. 90% chance I'll drop out, then..

Are you a 1L?


Yep, I'm a 1L with...a sad 1600 posts.

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LAWSCHOOLREALITY
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Re: Warning to all 0L's

Postby LAWSCHOOLREALITY » Sun Nov 06, 2011 2:26 am


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tyro
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Re: Warning to all 0L's

Postby tyro » Sun Nov 06, 2011 11:18 am

LAWSCHOOLREALITY wrote:Tis the season lemmings:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g-_wDwmO ... DFE00A8098

I watched the whole series. Good info/advice but not really any new info here.

rachelwang712
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Re: Warning to all 0L's

Postby rachelwang712 » Sun Nov 06, 2011 11:27 am

so:

25k$ in Guangzhou, China.

v.

three years in law schools, around 120k$ tuition to be paid and then trying to look for a job as a Chinese student?

decent LSAT and transcripts, so probably could get in a T14.

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Opie
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Re: Warning to all 0L's

Postby Opie » Sun Nov 06, 2011 11:34 am

rachelwang712 wrote:so:

25k$ in Guangzhou, China.

v.

three years in law schools, around 120k$ tuition to be paid and then trying to look for a job as a Chinese student?

decent LSAT and transcripts, so probably could get in a T14.


IIRC you are 171/superior. International cycles are hard to predict, but I would bet that you will be in at MVP on down. Maybe at NYU and Chicago. Probably not at Harvard, Columbia and Yale, but possible at Stanford.

I know nothing about Chinese schools, but if you want to practice outside of China, I would probably recommend one of these schools.

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BiglawOrBust
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Re: Warning to all 0L's

Postby BiglawOrBust » Sun Nov 06, 2011 12:07 pm

THIS IS GOING TO BE ALL OF US!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5i3ARRNbfn8

SHIT!

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Opie
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Re: Warning to all 0L's

Postby Opie » Sun Nov 06, 2011 12:14 pm

BiglawOrBust wrote:THIS IS GOING TO BE ALL OF US!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5i3ARRNbfn8

SHIT!


Meh, she went to a lower T100 school and isn't very well-spoken. She's making $30k+ a year and using her law skills.

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omninode
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Re: Warning to all 0L's

Postby omninode » Sun Nov 06, 2011 12:27 pm

Opie wrote:
BiglawOrBust wrote:THIS IS GOING TO BE ALL OF US!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5i3ARRNbfn8

SHIT!


Meh, she went to a lower T100 school and isn't very well-spoken. She's making $30k+ a year and using her law skills.


She got a job as an ADA, according to a youtube commenter who claims to know her. So I guess that's a happy ending.

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Opie
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Re: Warning to all 0L's

Postby Opie » Sun Nov 06, 2011 12:36 pm

omninode wrote:
Opie wrote:
BiglawOrBust wrote:THIS IS GOING TO BE ALL OF US!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5i3ARRNbfn8

SHIT!


Meh, she went to a lower T100 school and isn't very well-spoken. She's making $30k+ a year and using her law skills.


She got a job as an ADA, according to a youtube commenter who claims to know her. So I guess that's a happy ending.


/sky=falling

slider
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Re: Warning to all 0L's

Postby slider » Sun Nov 06, 2011 12:42 pm

Opie wrote:
BiglawOrBust wrote:THIS IS GOING TO BE ALL OF US!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5i3ARRNbfn8

SHIT!


Meh, she went to a lower T100 school and isn't very well-spoken. She's making $30k+ a year and using her law skills.


I personally know a T10 graduate in a very similar position.

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tyro
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Re: Warning to all 0L's

Postby tyro » Sun Nov 06, 2011 12:56 pm

Opie wrote:
BiglawOrBust wrote:THIS IS GOING TO BE ALL OF US!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5i3ARRNbfn8

SHIT!


Meh, she went to a lower T100 school and isn't very well-spoken. She's making $30k+ a year and using her law skills.

And I mean

were people near median at upper T2 schools ever doing super well?

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NYC Law
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Re: Warning to all 0L's

Postby NYC Law » Sun Nov 06, 2011 6:42 pm

You people are so obnoxious and your logic is fail. I doubt many of the scambloggers could get jobs even if they went to HYS. Not due to a struggling field, but more due to being an insufferable shit-for-brains.

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Opie
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Re: Warning to all 0L's

Postby Opie » Mon Nov 07, 2011 10:23 am

NYC Law wrote:You people are so obnoxious and your logic is fail. I doubt many of the scambloggers could get jobs even if they went to HYS. Not due to a struggling field, but more due to being an insufferable shit-for-brains.


+1 Losers always lose.

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LAWSCHOOLREALITY
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Re: Warning to all 0L's

Postby LAWSCHOOLREALITY » Wed Nov 16, 2011 2:27 pm

Dblock20165 wrote:
Real Madrid wrote:Sorry your career didn't pan out the way you wanted it to, but you're preaching to the choir here, kiddo. Don't tell us what we should and shouldn't do. We don't come to where you work and knock the sample corndog out of your hand.


Oh my god that shit is funny. Yeah why do I hear everyone crying about the legal field right now? Last I heard it was a recession, and it's hard to find jobs in any field. 20 years from now, I'd rather be an attorney than a manager at Best Buy wondering why I didn't go to law school.


I find it pathetic you think those are the only two options in life. Its not law school or fail. Law school is fail right now.

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MTal
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Re: Warning to all 0L's

Postby MTal » Wed Nov 16, 2011 2:34 pm

NYC Law wrote:You people are so obnoxious and your logic is fail. I doubt many of the scambloggers could get jobs even if they went to HYS. Not due to a struggling field, but more due to being an insufferable shit-for-brains.


Last I heard, there were on average 100 applicants for every entry level legal job out there. How do you fit a square peg into a round hole?

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birdlaw117
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Re: Warning to all 0L's

Postby birdlaw117 » Wed Nov 16, 2011 2:37 pm

MTal wrote:
NYC Law wrote:You people are so obnoxious and your logic is fail. I doubt many of the scambloggers could get jobs even if they went to HYS. Not due to a struggling field, but more due to being an insufferable shit-for-brains.


Last I heard, there were on average 100 applicants for every entry level legal job out there. How do you fit a square peg into a round hole?

This is such a useless metric. If every applicant was applying to 100 jobs, then there would be 1 job per applicant.

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kennethellenparcell
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Re: Warning to all 0L's

Postby kennethellenparcell » Wed Nov 16, 2011 2:43 pm

A couple of things lead to the mentality espoused by the OP in this thread:
(1) There is a lack of regulation in law schools so there is a much higher supply than demand for lawyers.
(2) Law is a default career, chosen by people who have no idea what they want to do with their lives.
(3) 0Ls tend to think that they are special snowflakes who will get that 160K after graduation even though these people are in the minority.

I think much of this could be remedied by imposing some sort of work requirement for admission to a law school (like b school), and requiring kids to have some sort of legal career direction.

c3pO4
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Re: Warning to all 0L's

Postby c3pO4 » Wed Nov 16, 2011 2:48 pm

kennethellenparcell wrote:A couple of things lead to the mentality espoused by the OP in this thread:
(1) There is a lack of regulation in law schools so there is a much higher supply than demand for lawyers.
(2) Law is a default career, chosen by people who have no idea what they want to do with their lives.
(3) 0Ls tend to think that they are special snowflakes who will get that 160K after graduation even though these people are in the minority.

I think much of this could be remedied by imposing some sort of work requirement for admission to a law school (like b school), and requiring kids to have some sort of legal career direction.


The solution is to deregulate the market, not regulate more. Only solution is to restrict student loan access for law schools who don't place a large % of their students into jobs that can pay off their debt, you know, like would actually make economic sense?

What you're suggesting the market already accounts for - if you aren't top half at T14 or top 15% outside, and you don't have work experience or a proven legal career direction, you are SOL.

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MTal
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Re: Warning to all 0L's

Postby MTal » Wed Nov 16, 2011 2:50 pm

c3pO4 wrote:
The solution is to deregulate the market, not regulate more. Only solution is to restrict student loan access for law schools who don't place a large % of their students into jobs that can pay off their debt, you know, like would actually make economic sense?


No, the solution is to end federal guarantees for student loans PERIOD. If some bank wants to lend 200k to a Cooley student, let it be on their head if said grad defaults.

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omninode
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Re: Warning to all 0L's

Postby omninode » Wed Nov 16, 2011 2:51 pm

c3pO4 wrote:
kennethellenparcell wrote:A couple of things lead to the mentality espoused by the OP in this thread:
(1) There is a lack of regulation in law schools so there is a much higher supply than demand for lawyers.
(2) Law is a default career, chosen by people who have no idea what they want to do with their lives.
(3) 0Ls tend to think that they are special snowflakes who will get that 160K after graduation even though these people are in the minority.

I think much of this could be remedied by imposing some sort of work requirement for admission to a law school (like b school), and requiring kids to have some sort of legal career direction.


The solution is to deregulate the market, not regulate more. Only solution is to restrict student loan access for law schools who don't place a large % of their students into jobs that can pay off their debt, you know, like would actually make economic sense?

What you're suggesting the market already accounts for - if you aren't top half at T14 or top 15% outside, and you don't have work experience or a proven legal career direction, you are SOL.


I don't think you know what "deregulate" means.

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Tiago Splitter
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Re: Warning to all 0L's

Postby Tiago Splitter » Wed Nov 16, 2011 2:52 pm

MTal wrote:
c3pO4 wrote:
The solution is to deregulate the market, not regulate more. Only solution is to restrict student loan access for law schools who don't place a large % of their students into jobs that can pay off their debt, you know, like would actually make economic sense?


No, the solution is to end federal guarantees for student loans PERIOD. If some bank wants to lend 200k to a Cooley student, let it be on their head if said grad defaults.


+1

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kennethellenparcell
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Re: Warning to all 0L's

Postby kennethellenparcell » Wed Nov 16, 2011 2:54 pm

Yah, I hear ya about the restriction of student loan access. Loud and clear. What I'm also suggesting though is putting more barriers to entry to getting into law school in the first place. If you look at med schools in the U.S., I don't see them having these problems. Plus, requiring people to have some sort of exposure to the legal field and what is needed to succeed (say in biglaw) could theoretically deter some of them from applying.

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Addy
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Re: Warning to all 0L's

Postby Addy » Wed Nov 16, 2011 4:10 pm

I know 1Ls at T-10s, with a first year full ride (and partial afterwards), concerned about employment if they do not score in the top 20% of their class. Maybe it is not bonafide concern, but they certainly believe it is. It is not easy to convince someone that a great grade from a top school is an automatic to a good paying SA position.




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