Succeed Like a Lawyer

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Opie
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Succeed Like a Lawyer

Postby Opie » Thu Oct 13, 2011 9:01 am

As requested by observationalist, this is the text from an unsolicited email I got from University of Tulsa College of Law with the subject line "Succeed Like a Lawyer". There is no salary information, but the level of transparency seems to be increasing. Be sure to check out the link for more detailed information.

Dear [Opie],

At Tulsa Law, we are committed to fostering your success from admission through employment. In fact, we firmly believe the most meaningful measure of our success is the success our graduates have in launching rewarding careers in the legal profession.

Our placement record attests to the value of a degree from The University of Tulsa Law School. The employment statistics of the graduating Class of 2010 speak volumes. Of that class, 92.4% were employed within nine months of graduation. This is 8% higher than the national average of 84.1%. The breakdown is as follows:

Law Firm 53%
Government, including Public Defender and District Attorney offices 18.4%
Business and industry 18.4%
Academia, of varying levels 5%
Judicial clerkships 1%
Public interest organizations 4.2%

87.7% of those who are employed are in positions where a JD or bar license is preferred. For more information about placement statistics please click here.

As a Tulsa Law student, you'll benefit greatly from the committed staff of our Office of Professional Development. They actively seek out employment opportunities for you and assist you with every step of the job search process from resumes to interviews.

We are most proud of the fact that Tulsa Law graduates enjoy great freedom of choice in job selection. As a Tulsa Law graduate, you will be part of an alumni network that encompasses all 50 states. Find out more about the career opportunities that an education at The University of Tulsa Law School provides. Learn how to succeed like a lawyer!

For more information, please visit our website at TU Law Admissions or schedule a visit by contacting us at 918.631.2406.

Sincerely,

The Office of Admissions

We obtained your e-mail address via your expressed interest in our law program and/ or via LSAC. NOTE: If you no longer wish to be on our mailing list, please click: Unsubscribe

duckmoney
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Re: Succeed Like a Lawyer

Postby duckmoney » Thu Oct 13, 2011 9:32 am

That honestly really is encouraging.

However, I would still like to see some honest numbers for graduate salaries. Granted I'm not very familiar with the Oklahoma legal market, but most of the employers on that list look like shitlaw. They're probably ashamed of what their grads are making, so they don't publish them.

But, ITE, I guess a jerb is a jerb.

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Opie
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Re: Succeed Like a Lawyer

Postby Opie » Thu Oct 13, 2011 10:21 am

duckmoney wrote:That honestly really is encouraging.

However, I would still like to see some honest numbers for graduate salaries. Granted I'm not very familiar with the Oklahoma legal market, but most of the employers on that list look like shitlaw. They're probably ashamed of what their grads are making, so they don't publish them.

But, ITE, I guess a jerb is a jerb.


I thought so too! It's regrettable that there is no salary info, but no info is better than bogus medians.

I know nothing of Oklahoma either. I only got this because of CRS I'm sure. I would never go to an Oklahoma school to begin with.

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Bildungsroman
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Re: Succeed Like a Lawyer

Postby Bildungsroman » Thu Oct 13, 2011 10:33 am

Employed at 9 months is a heinously misleading statistic, especially when only 81% of the class reports being employed in positions "preferring" (another obvious guise to include non-attorney positions) a JD or bar license. Looking at their website paints an even bleaker picture, with only 69.7% of those employed 92.4% being in jobs where a law license is required. That means that only 64.4% of their grads have a bona fide attorney job 9 months after graduation. Objectively shitty placement.
Last edited by Bildungsroman on Thu Oct 13, 2011 10:38 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Opie
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Re: Succeed Like a Lawyer

Postby Opie » Thu Oct 13, 2011 10:37 am

Bildungsroman wrote:Employed at 9 months is a heinously misleading statistic, especially when only 81% of the class reports being employed in positions "preferring" (another obvious guise to include non-attorney positions) a JD or bar license.


You are correct, but if you dig through the website it does clarify it to mean "69.7 percent law license required, 18 percent JD-preferred". Those aren't great numbers, but I think the honesty is amazing compared to what most schools post.

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Bildungsroman
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Re: Succeed Like a Lawyer

Postby Bildungsroman » Thu Oct 13, 2011 10:40 am

Opie wrote:
Bildungsroman wrote:Employed at 9 months is a heinously misleading statistic, especially when only 81% of the class reports being employed in positions "preferring" (another obvious guise to include non-attorney positions) a JD or bar license.


You are correct, but if you dig through the website it does clarify it to mean "69.7 percent law license required, 18 percent JD-preferred". Those aren't great numbers, but I think the honesty is amazing compared to what most schools post.

I think it's a damn shame that we live and work in a system where it's amazing when a school is slightly less shitty about disclosing the outcomes for its $100k+ education.

scammedhard
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Re: Succeed Like a Lawyer

Postby scammedhard » Thu Oct 13, 2011 12:19 pm

I think the lesson to be learned from law schools is: ONE SHOULD NOT TRUST LAW SCHOOLS. Employment stats need to be collected by an independent agency, verified, audited, and put in context--that is compared to standardized stats from other law schools. Without all that, it's hard to tell what these numbers mean, or if they are even real.

LawSchoolGuru
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Re: Succeed Like a Lawyer

Postby LawSchoolGuru » Thu Oct 13, 2011 12:21 pm

scammedhard wrote:I think the lesson to be learned from law schools is: ONE SHOULD NOT TRUST LAW SCHOOLS. Employment stats need to be collected by an independent agency, verified, audited, and put in context--that is compared to standardized stats from other law schools. Without all that, it's hard to tell what these numbers mean, or if they are even real.


woah thats hardcore

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Opie
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Re: Succeed Like a Lawyer

Postby Opie » Thu Oct 13, 2011 1:31 pm

LawSchoolGuru wrote:
scammedhard wrote:I think the lesson to be learned from law schools is: ONE SHOULD NOT TRUST LAW SCHOOLS. Employment stats need to be collected by an independent agency, verified, audited, and put in context--that is compared to standardized stats from other law schools. Without all that, it's hard to tell what these numbers mean, or if they are even real.


woah thats hardcore


It is hardcore, but he is right -- as is Bildungsroman. I wish these things didn't surprise me, and it IS a shame that we have to stress ourselves about if we should disclose an improper lane change ticket from ten years ago, but the schools can put out whatever they like.

I personally would like to see legislation that ANY school -- law or otherwise -- that receives any federal funding or accepts loans guaranteed by the government (which I believe is every college in the country probably) would have to report honest numbers on employment, debt default rates, etc. that would be independently audited for verification. I wouldn't even mind if this was done on a basis of every few years. I think that would cut down on the rat racing game of "we must have better stats than X school or Y school."

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prezidentv8
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Re: Succeed Like a Lawyer

Postby prezidentv8 » Thu Oct 13, 2011 1:53 pm

Didn't read thoroughly, and I may have missed it, but I didn't see information about what proportion of the class was represented in the data.




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