The Depth of Misleading Employment Numbers

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scammedhard
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The Depth of Misleading Employment Numbers

Postby scammedhard » Tue Oct 11, 2011 7:31 pm

The Depth and Breadth of Misleading Employment Numbers by Law Schools (And How to Solve It)

[by WUSTL Law Professor] Brian Tamanaha

http://balkin.blogspot.com/2011/10/dept ... ading.html

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The numbers are truly shocking!

Schola
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Re: The Depth of Misleading Employment Numbers

Postby Schola » Tue Oct 11, 2011 10:09 pm

This is a problem at nearly every level of higher education, although it is particularly egregious with law schools b/c of the huge sticker price.

You see something similar in PhD programs in the humanities. Even at HYP (and this list various depending on the field, since a school like MSU might have a or the top program in the nation in a very specific field like 17th century French Lit. or Mesopotamian archeology) newly minted PhDs are finding it incredibly difficult, if not close to impossible, to find tenure track appointments. If you don't go to a top 5 or 10 program in your field, you will be absolutely out of luck, over-educated and unemployed at 30 or 35. Yet universities continue to accept graduate students. Why? B/c they are cheap labor. For a modest grad student stipend, which is only a fraction of what you have to pay real professors, they can TA or even teach classes. This is why even at a school like Chicago you bound to take courses taught by a grad student who is only a little older than yourself.

Law schools provide even more direct economic benefits to schools than grad programs do. Unlike, say, English or History Departments, they actually make money, and can therefore pass some of their revenues--as much as 30% according to the NYTimes--onto the rest of the university.

I think Prof. Tamanaha is correct that the deans at top law schools might be able to affect this situation a bit, but ultimately universities are corporations concerned about the bottom line, despite all of the high brow talk to the contrary.

The situation will not be rectified until students wise up and stop letting universities take advantage of them. As long as people are willing to pay TTT law schools for educations that will not provide them a return on their investment, as long as people let PhD programs use them as cheap labor before spitting them out into an over saturated job market (if not before they finish their PhDs), the universities will continue to use them. Students need to vote with their pocketbooks and time, for that is the only thing that academic bureaucrats take note of.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/17/busin ... wanted=all

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AntipodeanPhil
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Re: The Depth of Misleading Employment Numbers

Postby AntipodeanPhil » Tue Oct 11, 2011 11:15 pm

Schola wrote:You see something similar in PhD programs in the humanities. Even at HYP (and this list various depending on the field, since a school like MSU might have a or the top program in the nation in a very specific field like 17th century French Lit. or Mesopotamian archeology) newly minted PhDs are finding it incredibly difficult, if not close to impossible, to find tenure track appointments. If you don't go to a top 5 or 10 program in your field, you will be absolutely out of luck, over-educated and unemployed at 30 or 35.

I have a humanities Ph.D. from a (barely) top 25 program. I did a count of the people I know who graduated during the last couple of years with Ph.Ds from my university (across English, History, Philosophy, and Political Science): of the 32 I could name, 27 have jobs - 18 of them tenure track (and some of those in non-tt employment will find a tt position over the next few years). Admittedly, that's anecdotal, but probably similar or better odds than what you would find at a barely top 25 law school.

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ladybug89
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Re: The Depth of Misleading Employment Numbers

Postby ladybug89 » Wed Oct 12, 2011 12:28 am

I knew it was bad, but i didn't know it was THAT bad. yeesh.

shock259
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Re: The Depth of Misleading Employment Numbers

Postby shock259 » Wed Oct 12, 2011 3:23 am

ladybug89 wrote:I knew it was bad, but i didn't know it was THAT bad. yeesh.


This. Single digit response rates on salaries..? And that is published? Lol

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romothesavior
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Re: The Depth of Misleading Employment Numbers

Postby romothesavior » Wed Oct 12, 2011 3:27 am

Big props to my main man Professor T for all the work he's been doing on this front. No professor has been as thorough and committed to this issue as he has been, and he's a great guy and professor too. Few law professors give a shit about this issue, and almost none are willing to take a stand for it. Very glad that he's doing it.

And seriously, those numbers? Holy shit.




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