If I knew a smart, well-pedigreed kid who was considering LS

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flcath
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If I knew a smart, well-pedigreed kid who was considering LS

Postby flcath » Fri Oct 07, 2011 2:14 am

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Last edited by flcath on Sat Oct 08, 2011 1:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Curious1
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Re: If I knew a smart, well-pedigreed kid who was considering LS

Postby Curious1 » Fri Oct 07, 2011 2:19 am

So...so much poor reasoning in this argument.

I happen to fit both your criteria...HYP with 3.74 and a 178. I-Banking is pretty shot to hell right now--bulge brackets aren't recruiting at my school this year. Consulting doesn't pay enough and has an even higher attrition rate than BigLaw.

Of course we're also ignoring the fact that I actually want to go to law school and have wanted to for a long time. I agree that that doesn't matter, but it needs to be said.

Med School takes TWELVE years of insane hours before you start seeing any real money, and even then there's a firm upper limit that's much lower than the upper limit everywhere else.

The rest I pretty much agree. Except I might say the T6 is ok...limiting it to ONLY HYS is a bit extreme, even for an uber-elitist like me. So...don't go to LS unless you can get into T6 and want to practice.

Cheers!

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Tim0thy222
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Re: If I knew a smart, well-pedigreed kid who was considering LS

Postby Tim0thy222 » Fri Oct 07, 2011 2:24 am

If I knew a smart, well-pedigreed kid who was considering LS, I'd marry her and become her stay at home husband.

flcath
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Re: If I knew a smart, well-pedigreed kid who was considering LS

Postby flcath » Fri Oct 07, 2011 2:27 am

Curious1 wrote:So...so much poor reasoning in this argument.

I'm partially enjoying myself, obviously, but anyone who can hack it in a science major should shoot for medical school, and not be lured by LS unless it's one where they can be reasonably sure of success (HYS). Med school is still >>> HYS, obviously, but I wouldn't say it's a totally dumb decision.

The 3.6 from the Ivy (in Women's Inter-Racial Literary Studies, or whatever) is more difficult... my temptation is to say enter a med school post-bacc program designed for non-science grads and shoot for MS in 2 years, but who's to say he won't do awful and be right back where he started?

Edit: And obviously if the Ivy kid did happen to be a 3.9 from Princeton, he'll have other options (I-banking) that are still better than law school... probably even at HYS, but definitely outside it.
Last edited by flcath on Fri Oct 07, 2011 2:30 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Blessedassurance
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Re: If I knew a smart, well-pedigreed kid who was considering LS

Postby Blessedassurance » Fri Oct 07, 2011 2:28 am

It is possible to go to med school with a "shit-major" so long as you satisfy the prerequisites. You can do that in a year actually in certain post-baccalaureate programs.

Curious1
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Re: If I knew a smart, well-pedigreed kid who was considering LS

Postby Curious1 » Fri Oct 07, 2011 2:28 am

Not sure if you're serious...

So absolutely everyone who wants to go to LS would be better off going to med school? Interest doesn't matter at all? I know that I would absolutely fail pre-med, let alone real med school...

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Blessedassurance
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Re: If I knew a smart, well-pedigreed kid who was considering LS

Postby Blessedassurance » Fri Oct 07, 2011 2:41 am

Curious1 wrote:Interest doesn't matter at all?


How do you know you'll enjoy being a lawyer?

071816
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Re: If I knew a smart, well-pedigreed kid who was considering LS

Postby 071816 » Fri Oct 07, 2011 2:48 am

Image

Curious1
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Re: If I knew a smart, well-pedigreed kid who was considering LS

Postby Curious1 » Fri Oct 07, 2011 3:00 am

Blessedassurance wrote:
Curious1 wrote:Interest doesn't matter at all?


How do you know you'll enjoy being a lawyer?


I know I would enjoy it more than chemistry or biology or economics. What other career options exist?

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DoubleChecks
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Re: If I knew a smart, well-pedigreed kid who was considering LS

Postby DoubleChecks » Fri Oct 07, 2011 3:03 am

iunno why OP is pushing med school as a great option. I know a lot of doctors and med school students -- it sucks lol. Long, arduous path. Dentistry is where it is AT boyyyyy hahaha.

Pharmacy and accounting seem a bit boring to me, but those are at least solid jobs, with pharmacy able to rake in 100k pretty easily (I can only speak for TX, though Houston is pretty saturated right now and that is still the going rate for community/retail pharmacists). Then there's optometry, physician's assistant, engineering, etc. that, while not jobs I would place on the same level of dentistry in overall ease + $$$, are pretty solid if the alternative is a TTT (or even TT, and in some cases, T1) and probable unemployment + $150k debt.

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rayiner
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Re: If I knew a smart, well-pedigreed kid who was considering LS

Postby rayiner » Fri Oct 07, 2011 4:51 am

This advice is... questionable.

For someone who is considering HYS, med school is not an undeniably better option. Most doctors are not surgeons making $500k/year. Lots (most?) end up as GPs and make good money, but probably not more than someone who goes big law -> in house. Especially when you factor in malpractice insurance, the foregone income during the 4th year of med school + 3-4 years of residency. The reason med school is >>> law school in general is that you're basically guaranteed a job from med school, while big law is only available to a small # of law school graduates. When limiting the comparison to HYS, that calculus is different.

The non-med science options are all worse. You can definitely hit six figures, but it sucks to be a 130+ IQ scientist making less money and being managed by 110 IQ MBA's.

Consulting has awful quality of life unless you really love traveling.

Finance will definitely make you money, but it's gotten harder to get ITE. And even if you do get it, a big %-age of every analyst class is going to wash out after a couple of years and end up in some corporate finance position making much less money. Some fraction of folks are going to become an MD making a couple of million per year, but it's not a whole lot easier to make MD at a bank than it is to make partner at a law firm (though the two achievements take different skills). The median banker who spends a few years as an associate and then exits to a high-level corporate job will probably make 2-3x as much a lawyer at every step (say $500k as VP versus $250k as a senior associate), but at the cost of substantially longer hours at every step.

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Blessedassurance
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Re: If I knew a smart, well-pedigreed kid who was considering LS

Postby Blessedassurance » Fri Oct 07, 2011 5:25 am

Curious1 wrote:
Blessedassurance wrote:
Curious1 wrote:Interest doesn't matter at all?


How do you know you'll enjoy being a lawyer?


I know I would enjoy it more than chemistry or biology or economics. What other career options exist?


How do you know?

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ahduth
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Re: If I knew a smart, well-pedigreed kid who was considering LS

Postby ahduth » Fri Oct 07, 2011 6:16 am

I think you're pretty much dumb if you're not living in Sweden or Germany right now. Solid economies, universal healthcare, being a plumber there is superior to any of the job options presented here.

American_in_China
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Re: If I knew a smart, well-pedigreed kid who was considering LS

Postby American_in_China » Fri Oct 07, 2011 6:48 am

ahduth wrote:I think you're pretty much dumb if you're not living in Sweden or Germany right now. Solid economies, universal healthcare, being a plumber there is superior to any of the job options presented here.


Lol +1

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kwais
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Re: If I knew a smart, well-pedigreed kid who was considering LS

Postby kwais » Fri Oct 07, 2011 7:03 am

ITT people who don't know shit about other professions romanticize them because they are disillusioned with law. useful.

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bport hopeful
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Re: If I knew a smart, well-pedigreed kid who was considering LS

Postby bport hopeful » Fri Oct 07, 2011 7:31 am

I think its stupid not to be born into money. Fuckin tards everywhere.

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PurplePirate
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Re: If I knew a smart, well-pedigreed kid who was considering LS

Postby PurplePirate » Fri Oct 07, 2011 8:08 am

bport hopeful wrote:I think its stupid not to be born into money. Fuckin tards everywhere.


I lol'd. This thread needed this.

1988AndX
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Re: If I knew a smart, well-pedigreed kid who was considering LS

Postby 1988AndX » Fri Oct 07, 2011 8:10 am

flcath wrote:Edit: And obviously if the Ivy kid did happen to be a 3.9 from Princeton, he'll have other options (I-banking) that are still better than law school... probably even at HYS, but definitely outside it.


Not really. Investment banking analysts often work from 9-3; that's a lot of hours even compared to BigLaw. Past 12 AM, whenever investment bankers email lawyers, they are not expecting responses until the next morning, unless it's during the final few days of a deal. Therefore, the life/work balance is a lot better at BigLaw. The burnout rate for investment banking is a lot higher than that for BigLaw; that's why there are so many people going back to business school looking for career changes.

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downing
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Re: If I knew a smart, well-pedigreed kid who was considering LS

Postby downing » Fri Oct 07, 2011 8:10 am

chimp wrote:Image


YAH

lsatcrazy
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Re: If I knew a smart, well-pedigreed kid who was considering LS

Postby lsatcrazy » Fri Oct 07, 2011 9:07 am

I find it very interesting that the career options being discussed here consist entirely of doctor/lawyer/ibanking. The real money is in business, particularly entrepreneurship, but I guess the crowd here is too risk-averse for that kind of thing...

Transferthrowaway
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Re: If I knew a smart, well-pedigreed kid who was considering LS

Postby Transferthrowaway » Fri Oct 07, 2011 9:07 am

ITT OP takes the running sentiments of xoxo and tries to jazz them up a bit.

flcath
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Re: If I knew a smart, well-pedigreed kid who was considering LS

Postby flcath » Fri Oct 07, 2011 9:52 am

DoubleChecks wrote:iunno why OP is pushing med school as a great option. I know a lot of doctors and med school students -- it sucks lol. Long, arduous path. Dentistry is where it is AT boyyyyy hahaha.

Pharmacy and accounting seem a bit boring to me, but those are at least solid jobs, with pharmacy able to rake in 100k pretty easily (I can only speak for TX, though Houston is pretty saturated right now and that is still the going rate for community/retail pharmacists). Then there's optometry, physician's assistant, engineering, etc. that, while not jobs I would place on the same level of dentistry in overall ease + $$$, are pretty solid if the alternative is a TTT (or even TT, and in some cases, T1) and probable unemployment + $150k debt.

This is an excellent point.

Curious1
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Re: If I knew a smart, well-pedigreed kid who was considering LS

Postby Curious1 » Fri Oct 07, 2011 10:00 am

rayiner wrote:This advice is... questionable.

For someone who is considering HYS, med school is not an undeniably better option. Most doctors are not surgeons making $500k/year. Lots (most?) end up as GPs and make good money, but probably not more than someone who goes big law -> in house. Especially when you factor in malpractice insurance, the foregone income during the 4th year of med school + 3-4 years of residency. The reason med school is >>> law school in general is that you're basically guaranteed a job from med school, while big law is only available to a small # of law school graduates. When limiting the comparison to HYS, that calculus is different.

The non-med science options are all worse. You can definitely hit six figures, but it sucks to be a 130+ IQ scientist making less money and being managed by 110 IQ MBA's.

Consulting has awful quality of life unless you really love traveling.

Finance will definitely make you money, but it's gotten harder to get ITE. And even if you do get it, a big %-age of every analyst class is going to wash out after a couple of years and end up in some corporate finance position making much less money. Some fraction of folks are going to become an MD making a couple of million per year, but it's not a whole lot easier to make MD at a bank than it is to make partner at a law firm (though the two achievements take different skills). The median banker who spends a few years as an associate and then exits to a high-level corporate job will probably make 2-3x as much a lawyer at every step (say $500k as VP versus $250k as a senior associate), but at the cost of substantially longer hours at every step.


Good analysis.

Curious1
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Re: If I knew a smart, well-pedigreed kid who was considering LS

Postby Curious1 » Fri Oct 07, 2011 10:01 am

Blessedassurance wrote:
Curious1 wrote:
Blessedassurance wrote:
Curious1 wrote:Interest doesn't matter at all?


How do you know you'll enjoy being a lawyer?


I know I would enjoy it more than chemistry or biology or economics. What other career options exist?


How do you know?


You really think I don't know what I would enjoy? How about I suck at science?

I usually agree with the crusaders on here who say NO LAW SCHOOL EVER EVER EVER to everyone...but sometimes it gets extreme. I'm not exactly looking at Michigan State here.

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bluesplitter
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Re: If I knew a smart, well-pedigreed kid who was considering LS

Postby bluesplitter » Fri Oct 07, 2011 10:05 am

Lawyers come a dime a dozen these days.

The 20th century was kind to the lawyers, but by now the corporations are slowly squeezing lawyers out of the picture.

In texas, workers can't even get their day in court anymore when it comes to work place injuries or abuse, it has been regulated to the point that a worker has no real say in his predicament.

With tort reform in texas, the prospects look even worse for lawyers in malpractice, negligence, and injury law.

Now, if you want to just go to school get out, and get a job, get yourself a solid MBA from a top school. The 21st century is the age of corporates in America, and with the increased move towards globalization, you might be able to get some travelling in your work.


The truth is, with corporates squeezing out the lawyers, and the disappearence of the middle class, (new)lawyers will not have alot of choices, and it will be tough for atleast a decade. I know lawyers who graduated t30-15 , making 45-55k working for the governement to put people in jail for drugs and domestic violence. Some "flashy life" that is.


With all that said, iam going to law school to learn how to talk and persuade and run for office at a later date.

thats about it.

good luck yall, from the Texas Hill Country.




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