SOMEONE PLEASE HELP ME WITH HOW TO PRESENT MY BA'S TO LSAC!!

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psach44
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SOMEONE PLEASE HELP ME WITH HOW TO PRESENT MY BA'S TO LSAC!!

Postby psach44 » Thu Oct 06, 2011 10:51 am

OK-

so heres the story. this may seem somewhat complicated to people but i will do my best to explain my predicament. i have TWO ba's. i went to a rabbinical college for a couple of years and recieved a bachelors in talmudic law with a gpa of 4.0. while that gpa is stellar, the degree itself i dont think it looked upon nearly as highly as a regular bachelors. i additionally have a bachelors in psychology from touro college with a 3.5 gpa (it may be raised to a 3.6 as one of my grades are under review). now while this degree is seemingly much stronger, the gpa is not.

my understanding is that LSAC takes your first completed degree and does a summary and then anything past that point becomes post grad work and is not part of the summary. in my case, the BTL was awarded first and if it is reported, then my real BA becomes unsummarized. im not really sure what all the implications are with this situation and what i should do...can someone who knows the story please detail me exactly how to present myself well.

also i score in the 160's on my first lsat and just took the lsat this past week...hoping for a 170+ and would like to apply to columbia nyu penn etc

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JamMasterJ
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Re: SOMEONE PLEASE HELP ME WITH HOW TO PRESENT MY BA'S TO LSAC!!

Postby JamMasterJ » Thu Oct 06, 2011 10:55 am

psach44 wrote:OK-

so heres the story. this may seem somewhat complicated to people but i will do my best to explain my predicament. i have TWO ba's. i went to a rabbinical college for a couple of years and recieved a bachelors in talmudic law with a gpa of 4.0. while that gpa is stellar, the degree itself i dont think it looked upon nearly as highly as a regular bachelors. i additionally have a bachelors in psychology from touro college with a 3.5 gpa (it may be raised to a 3.6 as one of my grades are under review). now while this degree is seemingly much stronger, the gpa is not.

my understanding is that LSAC takes your first completed degree and does a summary and then anything past that point becomes post grad work and is not part of the summary. in my case, the BTL was awarded first and if it is reported, then my real BA becomes unsummarized. im not really sure what all the implications are with this situation and what i should do...can someone who knows the story please detail me exactly how to present myself well.

also i score in the 160's on my first lsat and just took the lsat this past week...hoping for a 170+ and would like to apply to columbia nyu penn etc

The first one's the one that counts. I don't know if you even need to send transcripts for the second

pwyoung
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Re: SOMEONE PLEASE HELP ME WITH HOW TO PRESENT MY BA'S TO LSAC!!

Postby pwyoung » Thu Oct 06, 2011 11:02 am

The first BA is better for you anyways with a 4.0

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Bildungsroman
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Re: SOMEONE PLEASE HELP ME WITH HOW TO PRESENT MY BA'S TO LSAC!!

Postby Bildungsroman » Thu Oct 06, 2011 11:06 am

JamMasterJ wrote:The first one's the one that counts. I don't know if you even need to send transcripts for the second

He absolutely has to send in all the transcripts, but LSAC will exclude from conversion any courses taken after his first bachelors (meaning they should not affect his LSDAS GPA).

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Blessedassurance
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Re: SOMEONE PLEASE HELP ME WITH HOW TO PRESENT MY BA'S TO LSAC!!

Postby Blessedassurance » Thu Oct 06, 2011 11:08 am

What's with the caps, man?

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JamMasterJ
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Re: SOMEONE PLEASE HELP ME WITH HOW TO PRESENT MY BA'S TO LSAC!!

Postby JamMasterJ » Thu Oct 06, 2011 11:09 am

Bildungsroman wrote:
JamMasterJ wrote:The first one's the one that counts. I don't know if you even need to send transcripts for the second

He absolutely has to send in all the transcripts, but LSAC will exclude from conversion any courses taken after his first bachelors (meaning they should not affect his LSDAS GPA).

I knew they weren't used in the calculation. Good to know on the second part

psach44
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Re: SOMEONE PLEASE HELP ME WITH HOW TO PRESENT MY BA'S TO LSAC!!

Postby psach44 » Thu Oct 06, 2011 11:57 am

ok understood-

my question now i guess is: when they receive my BTL first and see a 4.0 then what happens with my psychology BA with a 3.5?

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rinkrat19
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Re: SOMEONE PLEASE HELP ME WITH HOW TO PRESENT MY BA'S TO LSAC!!

Postby rinkrat19 » Thu Oct 06, 2011 11:58 am

psach44 wrote:ok understood-

my question now i guess is: when they receive my BTL first and see a 4.0 then what happens with my psychology BA with a 3.5?
It's a soft factor, like having a MA or doing an internship. They only care about the first bachelors GPA because that's what they report to USNWR and that's what gets used to calculate rankings.

psach44
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Re: SOMEONE PLEASE HELP ME WITH HOW TO PRESENT MY BA'S TO LSAC!!

Postby psach44 » Thu Oct 06, 2011 12:44 pm

ok well having a 4.0 reported first with a softer degree (talmudic law vs ba in psychology) what are the implications?

pwyoung
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Re: SOMEONE PLEASE HELP ME WITH HOW TO PRESENT MY BA'S TO LSAC!!

Postby pwyoung » Thu Oct 06, 2011 1:09 pm

psach44 wrote:ok well having a 4.0 reported first with a softer degree (talmudic law vs ba in psychology) what are the implications?


Assuming something screwy doesn't happen, a 4.0 is above every school's 75th percentile for GPA's. If you can score into the 170's, you will be going to a Top 14 school, provided you're not a convicted murderer, have never done anything in your life besides school, or can't form a coherent sentence in your personal statement.

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JamMasterJ
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Re: SOMEONE PLEASE HELP ME WITH HOW TO PRESENT MY BA'S TO LSAC!!

Postby JamMasterJ » Thu Oct 06, 2011 1:11 pm

pwyoung wrote:
psach44 wrote:ok well having a 4.0 reported first with a softer degree (talmudic law vs ba in psychology) what are the implications?


Assuming something screwy doesn't happen, a 4.0 is above every school's 75th percentile for GPA's. If you can score above 167, you will be going to a Top 14 school, provided you're not a convicted murderer, have never done anything in your life besides school, or can't form a coherent sentence in your personal statement.

psach44
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Re: SOMEONE PLEASE HELP ME WITH HOW TO PRESENT MY BA'S TO LSAC!!

Postby psach44 » Fri Oct 07, 2011 4:33 am

i understand that a 4.0 objectively is well above every school's average but that is for a regular BA. this 4.0 is for a bachelor's but it is a bachelors in talmudic law. its a little different. i have a 3.6 on my regular BA. but the 4.0 was awarded first. what do we think guys?

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kurla88
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Re: SOMEONE PLEASE HELP ME WITH HOW TO PRESENT MY BA'S TO LSAC!!

Postby kurla88 » Fri Oct 07, 2011 7:20 am

psach44 wrote:i understand that a 4.0 objectively is well above every school's average but that is for a regular BA. this 4.0 is for a bachelor's but it is a bachelors in talmudic law. its a little different. i have a 3.6 on my regular BA. but the 4.0 was awarded first. what do we think guys?


Schools really don't care what you majored in so it should be treated like any other 4.0.

In fact, I think they might find Talmudic law study to be a plus factor since it's unusual.

Renzo
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Re: SOMEONE PLEASE HELP ME WITH HOW TO PRESENT MY BA'S TO LSAC!!

Postby Renzo » Fri Oct 07, 2011 10:22 am

psach44 wrote:i understand that a 4.0 objectively is well above every school's average but that is for a regular BA. this 4.0 is for a bachelor's but it is a bachelors in talmudic law. its a little different. i have a 3.6 on my regular BA. but the 4.0 was awarded first. what do we think guys?


No matter how many times you ask, or ways you phrase the question, you're going to get the same answer: LSDAS is going to report your first BA's GPA, and that's great news for you. The second one is a plus-factor on your resume, but nothing comes close to being as important as good numbers, and a 4.0 is a good number.

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vanwinkle
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Re: SOMEONE PLEASE HELP ME WITH HOW TO PRESENT MY BA'S TO LSAC!!

Postby vanwinkle » Fri Oct 07, 2011 11:00 am

psach44 wrote:i understand that a 4.0 objectively is well above every school's average but that is for a regular BA. this 4.0 is for a bachelor's but it is a bachelors in talmudic law. its a little different. i have a 3.6 on my regular BA. but the 4.0 was awarded first. what do we think guys?

They say they stop counting courses after you received your first bachelor's degree. They don't say "your first BA" (which is good for me since I have a BS). You got a bachelor's degree. Enjoy your 4.0 and your $$$ from schools.

Besides, none of us work for LSAC. We know what we know, but only LSAC truly knows what'll happen. You'll keep getting the same answer from everyone here, and the same degree of certainty, no matter how many times you ask. You should send in all transcripts anyway, so why not just do that and see what they say?

Worst case: They factor all grades in, including the 120-or-so hours at 4.0 that go with your BTL. So even if they count everything you're probably looking at a GPA in the 3.8 range. That's still leaving you in at least decent shape. But you have to do the same thing either way, so just do it and find out.

Btw, please let us know what your LSDAS GPA ends up as. That way we'll all know for sure the next time this comes up.

delusional
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Re: SOMEONE PLEASE HELP ME WITH HOW TO PRESENT MY BA'S TO LSAC!!

Postby delusional » Fri Oct 07, 2011 11:10 am

I already said this via PM but I know a little bit on the subject, so I'll post it for later searchers.

If you have a degree like the OP's, you need to do a little extra to answer the questions it raises. You need to have a better personal statement, and evidence that you can translate the study skills that you have into legal studies. An LSAT that is a few points higher than median can help; how the school sees the Touro degree might influence how they see the Talmudic degree. Make your personal statement compelling and try to tie in the legal connection between Talmud and LS.

I know people at HYSCC (N is conspicuously absent) with below median LSATs and Talmud degrees, and I know of people who were rejected at Harvard, Penn and Fordham above the 75th percentile. The difference seems to be the way they came across in an overall picture.

PM for more details if you want.




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