WUSTL vs. Indiana vs. GWU vs. Emory vs. William and Mary

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emkay625
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WUSTL vs. Indiana vs. GWU vs. Emory vs. William and Mary

Postby emkay625 » Sun Oct 02, 2011 2:21 am

I am a splitter and I want to end up back in Texas. I will not, however, get in to Texas, which is why it is not on the list. Getting a job is more important than being back in Texas, though.

Fire away.

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JamMasterJ
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Re: WUSTL vs. Indiana vs. GWU vs. Emory vs. William and Mary

Postby JamMasterJ » Sun Oct 02, 2011 2:28 am

SMU. Otherwise, WUSTL

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emkay625
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Re: WUSTL vs. Indiana vs. GWU vs. Emory vs. William and Mary

Postby emkay625 » Sun Oct 02, 2011 2:33 am

JamMasterJ wrote:SMU. Otherwise, WUSTL


I think you're right, but am curious as to your rationale. Elaboration would be appreciated. : )

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JamMasterJ
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Re: WUSTL vs. Indiana vs. GWU vs. Emory vs. William and Mary

Postby JamMasterJ » Sun Oct 02, 2011 2:40 am

emkay625 wrote:
JamMasterJ wrote:SMU. Otherwise, WUSTL


I think you're right, but am curious as to your rationale. Elaboration would be appreciated. : )

If you don't think you can get Texas and really want to work in the state, then SMU is the way to go. Otherwise, best school is best school. Also, WUSTL is going to give great money if you break 168 or 9

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AntipodeanPhil
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Re: WUSTL vs. Indiana vs. GWU vs. Emory vs. William and Mary

Postby AntipodeanPhil » Sun Oct 02, 2011 3:12 am

JamMasterJ wrote:SMU. Otherwise, WUSTL

+1

Look at the graphs on Law School Transparency - SMU kicks butt for jobs in Texas.

Avoid Emory. You probably already know they have dropped 10 positions in the US News ranking over the past two years. They don't seem to be doing anything to fix the problem, and my theory is that things are only going to get worse. For GA residents, UGA is almost a third of the price and has started posting better employment data. Now they are so closely ranked, UGA is going to start taking all of GA residents that would otherwise have gone to Emory, as well as many of the non-residents (since non-residents only pay one year at the non-resident rate, and even that rate is cheaper than Emory).

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emkay625
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Re: WUSTL vs. Indiana vs. GWU vs. Emory vs. William and Mary

Postby emkay625 » Sun Oct 02, 2011 3:13 am

JamMasterJ wrote:
emkay625 wrote:
JamMasterJ wrote:SMU. Otherwise, WUSTL


I think you're right, but am curious as to your rationale. Elaboration would be appreciated. : )

If you don't think you can get Texas and really want to work in the state, then SMU is the way to go. Otherwise, best school is best school. Also, WUSTL is going to give great money if you break 168 or 9


I'm sitting on a 169 from the Dec. 09 administration, which is why WUSTL is so appealing.

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jeeptiger09
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Re: WUSTL vs. Indiana vs. GWU vs. Emory vs. William and Mary

Postby jeeptiger09 » Sun Oct 02, 2011 9:48 am

I have no business being in this thread, but OP, you might want to head over to the Legal Employment section and read up on WUSTL.

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JamMasterJ
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Re: WUSTL vs. Indiana vs. GWU vs. Emory vs. William and Mary

Postby JamMasterJ » Sun Oct 02, 2011 11:30 am

emkay625 wrote:
JamMasterJ wrote:
emkay625 wrote:
JamMasterJ wrote:SMU. Otherwise, WUSTL


I think you're right, but am curious as to your rationale. Elaboration would be appreciated. : )

If you don't think you can get Texas and really want to work in the state, then SMU is the way to go. Otherwise, best school is best school. Also, WUSTL is going to give great money if you break 168 or 9


I'm sitting on a 169 from the Dec. 09 administration, which is why WUSTL is so appealing.

that's true. I forgot that. In that case WUSTL is probably a good bet b/c of the price you will probably end up paying. GWU is good too, but they don't really give a ton of money except to ED applicants (which you won't get w/o a high gpa and LSAT).
Boston schools might be good too

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JamMasterJ
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Re: WUSTL vs. Indiana vs. GWU vs. Emory vs. William and Mary

Postby JamMasterJ » Sun Oct 02, 2011 11:31 am

jeeptiger09 wrote:I have no business being in this thread, but OP, you might want to head over to the Legal Employment section and read up on WUSTL.

None of these schools have great employment.


ETA: what's your gpa, OP? Cornell might be doable and would def be your best shot at a good job

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YourCaptain
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Re: WUSTL vs. Indiana vs. GWU vs. Emory vs. William and Mary

Postby YourCaptain » Sun Oct 02, 2011 11:32 am

What kind of a GPA are we talking about?

Emory & IUB should not be considerations here - WUSTL/GWU/W&M are easily the better schools, and IUB's 120k is not worth it.

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Aberzombie1892
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Re: WUSTL vs. Indiana vs. GWU vs. Emory vs. William and Mary

Postby Aberzombie1892 » Sun Oct 02, 2011 11:49 am

Here are the rankings for your goals (I included proposed scholarships to go ahead and get that out of the way):
1. SMU (half ride)










2. WUSTL/GWU (sticker or half ride)

3. Emory/William and Mary (sticker or half ride)









4. Indiana (full ride)

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quadsixm
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Re: WUSTL vs. Indiana vs. GWU vs. Emory vs. William and Mary

Postby quadsixm » Sun Oct 02, 2011 11:51 am

jeeptiger09 wrote:I have no business being in this thread, but OP, you might want to head over to the Legal Employment section and read up on WUSTL.


Actually, Texas has been one of our bright spots at WUSTL this year. It's probably due to the fact that the Texans in our class are super smart, but man are they wrecking shop in Dallas.

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jeeptiger09
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Re: WUSTL vs. Indiana vs. GWU vs. Emory vs. William and Mary

Postby jeeptiger09 » Sun Oct 02, 2011 12:02 pm

quadsixm wrote:
jeeptiger09 wrote:I have no business being in this thread, but OP, you might want to head over to the Legal Employment section and read up on WUSTL.


Actually, Texas has been one of our bright spots at WUSTL this year. It's probably due to the fact that the Texans in our class are super smart, but man are they wrecking shop in Dallas.


That's good to hear. Just wanted to give fair warning after reading the horror occurring in the T25 Midwest Thread (although to be fair, it's not just WUSTL getting killed, Iowa, UMinn, IUB, UIUC are all hurting right now).

Have to agree that SMU is far and away #1 choice, with WUSTL being a clear #2 and then everyone else.

Avoid Emory, they are getting killed everywhere, including Atlanta (so you would not have very good 'fallback' prospects).

splittinghairs
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Re: WUSTL vs. Indiana vs. GWU vs. Emory vs. William and Mary

Postby splittinghairs » Sun Oct 02, 2011 12:45 pm

Avoid Emory, they are getting killed everywhere, including Atlanta (so you would not have very good 'fallback' prospects).


How so? Not to say that you are doing this, but I tend to see many ppl who just assume that Emory is getting killed from the rankings slip alone. Rankings alone is not indicative of a similar slip in actual employment, so are you guys basing this on other data?

Last I've checked, Emory is still way ahead of UGA in NLJ 250 21% to 11.5% in 2010

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emkay625
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Re: WUSTL vs. Indiana vs. GWU vs. Emory vs. William and Mary

Postby emkay625 » Sun Oct 02, 2011 12:47 pm

JamMasterJ wrote:
jeeptiger09 wrote:I have no business being in this thread, but OP, you might want to head over to the Legal Employment section and read up on WUSTL.

None of these schools have great employment.


ETA: what's your gpa, OP? Cornell might be doable and would def be your best shot at a good job


A craptastic 3.22, 4 years of WE (2 in marketing, 2 in TFA), non-URM.

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emkay625
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Re: WUSTL vs. Indiana vs. GWU vs. Emory vs. William and Mary

Postby emkay625 » Sun Oct 02, 2011 12:51 pm

Another question: Why the pro-SMU sentiment and no love for U. Houston? (I'm not questioning, I'm just curious as to the reasoning).

splittinghairs
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Re: WUSTL vs. Indiana vs. GWU vs. Emory vs. William and Mary

Postby splittinghairs » Sun Oct 02, 2011 12:57 pm

Just look at LST for SMU, they do extremely well considering their rank.

UH is also not bad but just not as good as SMU.

It used to be UT>UH=SMU=Baylor, but now SMU has clearly separated itself employment wise from UH and Baylor despite being ranked around the same. I imagine being located in Dallas is an advantage.

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Tiago Splitter
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Re: WUSTL vs. Indiana vs. GWU vs. Emory vs. William and Mary

Postby Tiago Splitter » Sun Oct 02, 2011 12:57 pm

emkay625 wrote:Another question: Why the pro-SMU sentiment and no love for U. Houston? (I'm not questioning, I'm just curious as to the reasoning).


Employment stats are a bit better out of SMU, and they are pretty formulaic with their 75K splitter half-ride.

If you have your heart set on Houston, go to Houston. Set on Dallas? SMU. Anywhere in Texas? Follow the money.

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Re: WUSTL vs. Indiana vs. GWU vs. Emory vs. William and Mary

Postby Aberzombie1892 » Sun Oct 02, 2011 1:00 pm

emkay625 wrote:Another question: Why the pro-SMU sentiment and no love for U. Houston? (I'm not questioning, I'm just curious as to the reasoning).


SMU has always been closer in placement to Texas-Austin thanto the U of Houston. The only people that truly consider SMU and Houston peers are people who are not familiar with the schools beyond their US News ranks.

Also, if you look at the 2009 employment statistics thread, SMU placed like a T25 school (in terms of true salaries) while Houston places like a T60+ school. True, things may be different now, but U of Houston was never known for placing students in great jobs (although I'm not saying it doesn't, it simply is not as good at it as SMU - to the point where SMU does and should command a premium).

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Re: WUSTL vs. Indiana vs. GWU vs. Emory vs. William and Mary

Postby YourCaptain » Sun Oct 02, 2011 1:02 pm

emkay625 wrote:
JamMasterJ wrote:
jeeptiger09 wrote:I have no business being in this thread, but OP, you might want to head over to the Legal Employment section and read up on WUSTL.

None of these schools have great employment.


ETA: what's your gpa, OP? Cornell might be doable and would def be your best shot at a good job


A craptastic 3.22, 4 years of WE (2 in marketing, 2 in TFA), non-URM.


You need to retake to 170, ED UVA

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Tiago Splitter
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Re: WUSTL vs. Indiana vs. GWU vs. Emory vs. William and Mary

Postby Tiago Splitter » Sun Oct 02, 2011 1:05 pm

Aberzombie1892 wrote:
emkay625 wrote:Another question: Why the pro-SMU sentiment and no love for U. Houston? (I'm not questioning, I'm just curious as to the reasoning).


SMU has always been closer in placement to Texas-Austin thanto the U of Houston. The only people that truly consider SMU and Houston peers are people who are not familiar with the schools beyond their US News ranks.

Also, if you look at the 2009 employment statistics thread, SMU placed like a T25 school (in terms of true salaries) while Houston places like a T60+ school. True, things may be different now, but U of Houston was never known for placing students in great jobs (although I'm not saying it doesn't, it simply is not as good at it as SMU - to the point where SMU does and should command a premium).



Houston looks good here:

http://lawfirmaddict.blogspot.com/2006/ ... ement.html

Small sample, but Houston had 11% V100 placement compared to SMU's 4.5% in 2006.

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Aberzombie1892
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Re: WUSTL vs. Indiana vs. GWU vs. Emory vs. William and Mary

Postby Aberzombie1892 » Sun Oct 02, 2011 1:08 pm

Tiago Splitter wrote:
Aberzombie1892 wrote:
emkay625 wrote:Another question: Why the pro-SMU sentiment and no love for U. Houston? (I'm not questioning, I'm just curious as to the reasoning).


SMU has always been closer in placement to Texas-Austin thanto the U of Houston. The only people that truly consider SMU and Houston peers are people who are not familiar with the schools beyond their US News ranks.

Also, if you look at the 2009 employment statistics thread, SMU placed like a T25 school (in terms of true salaries) while Houston places like a T60+ school. True, things may be different now, but U of Houston was never known for placing students in great jobs (although I'm not saying it doesn't, it simply is not as good at it as SMU - to the point where SMU does and should command a premium).



Houston looks good here:

http://lawfirmaddict.blogspot.com/2006/ ... ement.html

Small sample, but Houston had 11% V100 placement compared to SMU's 4.5% in 2006.


That means absolutely nothing. I will bet you $100 SMU owned Houston in NLJ 250 placement. Also, why would you cite to vault when dealing with southern no-T14 schools to begin with? The NLJ is a dramatically better indicator of employment outcomes.

Also, why would you cite to summer associate placement as an indicator of outcomes?

I don't like jerks on the internet, but you deserve a -180 for your post.

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Tiago Splitter
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Re: WUSTL vs. Indiana vs. GWU vs. Emory vs. William and Mary

Postby Tiago Splitter » Sun Oct 02, 2011 1:19 pm

Aberzombie1892 wrote:
I don't like jerks on the internet, but you deserve a -180 for your post.


Wow thank you. That has to be some kind of record. I didn't even have a speech prepared.

I was responding to splittinghairs' point about SMU at one time being considered on par with Houston. Let's just lay out all the data and we'll let the OP decide. This is all the data I've got, if you have more I'd love to see it.

2005 NLJ 250 placement: SMU ~19%, Houston ~15%

http://pdfserver.amlaw.com/nlj/20080414 ... trends.pdf

2009: SMU 23%, Houston 18.2%

http://pdfserver.amlaw.com/nlj/law%20sc ... page12.pdf

2010: SMU 16.22%, Houston 11.62%

http://pdfserver.amlaw.com/nlj/goto%20l ... s_main.pdf

SMU is better, but I wouldn't say SMU "owned" Houston.

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Kabuo
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Re: WUSTL vs. Indiana vs. GWU vs. Emory vs. William and Mary

Postby Kabuo » Sun Oct 02, 2011 1:25 pm

OP, same GPA, 176. ED to UVA is not automatic with the numbers. Get it in right after you get your score if you're going to. It seems like the consensus is that SMU will give you a half ride. WUSTL will start you at 84k if it's like last year, and they'll negotiate with you up to about 95 if you have peer school offers. Although, if I knew I wanted to end up in Texas, I'd probably take SMU unless WUSTL turns out cheaper by more than 15k or so.

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Aberzombie1892
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Re: WUSTL vs. Indiana vs. GWU vs. Emory vs. William and Mary

Postby Aberzombie1892 » Sun Oct 02, 2011 1:26 pm

Haha sorry I've been anxious over something. I get your point. No one said Houston was crap or anything - it's just not as good as SMU.

In 2009, 47% of SMU's class made more than $75,000 and 35% of Houston's class made more than $65,000. That's pretty sizable in my opinion.

http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=150681




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