Character & Fitness Question

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uofrhopefull
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Character & Fitness Question

Postby uofrhopefull » Fri Sep 30, 2011 2:31 pm

Well, I've went back and compiled my entire ticket history, I'm not sure that this will be so much of an issue when applying to law school (other than the DUI in '06), but I'm a little more worried about the possible impact these will have when applying for bar admission. I fully understand the need for full disclosure, and will completely reveal all on the bar admission application. Here's the list:

'01: Failure to Return Rental Property, Nolle Pros.
Exp. Lic. Plates, Dismissed

'02: Inadequate Exhaust, Dismissed
Speeding (54/35), Dismissed
PK Tickets (2), 1 Guilty, 1 Dismissed

'03: No Safety Belt, Guilty in Abstentia
No Driver's License, Guilty in Absentia
38 Parking Tickets, all Nolle Pros. (ex-gf was driving car and accumulating tickets without my knowing).
Improper Exhaust, Guilty in Abstentia
No Safety Belt, Guilty in Abstentia
No Driver's License, Guilty in Abstentia
Unapproved Equipment, Guilty in Abtentia

'04: Failure to Yield to Oncoming Traffic, Dismissed

'05: Operate an Uninspected Vehicle, Guilty in Abstentia
Defective Equipment, Dismissed
Improper Equipment, Dismissed

'06: Civil Warrant in Debt, Dismissed
Operate an Uninspected Vehicle, Guilty in Abstentia
DUI - 1st Offense, Guilty

'07: Civil Warrant in Debt, Dismissed

'08: Nothing

'09: Nothing

'10: Failure to Obey a Highway Sign, Guilty in Abstentia
Expired Registration, Dismissed

'11: Failure to Obet a Traffic Signal, Guilty
Following too closely, Dismissed

That said, the most serious thing on here is the DUI in '06, and I haven't really had anything major since then. Any input on the impact these could have on possible bar admission (would not be applying until 2015 and presuming I don't receive any citations between now and then). I know every state is different, if anyone wants to chime in on their particular state it would be appreciated.

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Nicholasnickynic
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Re: Character & Fitness Question

Postby Nicholasnickynic » Fri Sep 30, 2011 2:48 pm

I have no idea how C&F will view that, but WTF?

Curious1
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Re: Character & Fitness Question

Postby Curious1 » Fri Sep 30, 2011 2:51 pm

other than the DUI, the other stuff shouldn't matter, but...damn

You don't play by anyone's rules do you!

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Nicholasnickynic
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Re: Character & Fitness Question

Postby Nicholasnickynic » Fri Sep 30, 2011 2:53 pm

Curious1 wrote:other than the DUI, the other stuff shouldn't matter, but...damn

You don't play by anyone's rules do you!


I dunno, I don't think employers would see this obviously, but I wouldn't want to hire you.

other than the DUI, those are all easily avoidable crimes- if you had just had your shit together, you would have been fine. Are you sure Law school is right for you?

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Glock
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Re: Character & Fitness Question

Postby Glock » Fri Sep 30, 2011 2:56 pm

You'll probably be fine in most places, but it is the consistent record of law breaking that threatens you here.

Your history is moderately impressive, actually. You have to try hard to rack up that much crap. Do you have a racing styled car?

Void
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Re: Character & Fitness Question

Postby Void » Fri Sep 30, 2011 3:07 pm

I agree with Glock. Any of these by themselves, except for the DUI, probably wouldn't even raise an eyebrow. Seeing it all spread out looks like a pattern of lawlessness, which probably will raise some eyebrows with the bar. It's important to be as forthcoming as possible, which you seem to understand, but you can also consider how you might best address questions about your conduct. It might be better if you sent a "I'm just a really terrible driver" message, instead of "I'm a badass outlaw with no respect for The Man" message.

You should consider talking to an attorney who specializes in Bar admissions. They exist, and it might be worth your while to consult with one before the massive law school investment.

P.S. You are a really shitty driver.

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straxen
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Re: Character & Fitness Question

Postby straxen » Fri Sep 30, 2011 3:46 pm

There is no explanation for the sheer number of violations other than an utter lack of responsibility/respect for authority. If you don't have a driver's license, your car isn't in drivable condition, or your car isn't registered, then don't drive.

Point is, you have to take responsibility and own your violations, which it is not evident that you have done. If you've changed your attitude toward responsibility, you need to demonstrate that. If you haven't, which calling people assholes for telling you the truth seems to indicate, don't bother with the legal profession.

uofrhopefull
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Re: Character & Fitness Question

Postby uofrhopefull » Fri Sep 30, 2011 4:05 pm

straxen wrote:There is no explanation for the sheer number of violations other than an utter lack of responsibility/respect for authority. If you don't have a driver's license, your car isn't in drivable condition, or your car isn't registered, then don't drive.

Point is, you have to take responsibility and own your violations, which it is not evident that you have done. If you've changed your attitude toward responsibility, you need to demonstrate that. If you haven't, which calling people assholes for telling you the truth seems to indicate, don't bother with the legal profession.


I'm not arguing that I need to take responsiibility for my terrible decisions when I was younger. I know that the decisions I have made don't reflect well upon me. That said, I have been found guilty of exactly 12 items in 16 years of driving. I know I have been charged with considerably more than that, but I did comply with law.

I look back at how I was even 5 years ago and I don't recognize that person any longer. I have a total of 5 alleged infractions (2 guilty) in the last 4+ years, and am hopeful that I will not have any over the next 4.

I fully understand resorting to calling someone an asshole is not the proper way to convey a message. However, I don't know that it speaks to my attitude towards responsibility. I made the statement over someone making a blanket assessment concerning things of which they do not have a full story.

Void
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Re: Character & Fitness Question

Postby Void » Fri Sep 30, 2011 4:20 pm

uofrhopefull wrote: I made the statement over someone making a blanket assessment concerning things of which they do not have a full story.


Who'd you can an asshole? Did you delete your post? :D

uofrhopefull
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Re: Character & Fitness Question

Postby uofrhopefull » Fri Sep 30, 2011 4:29 pm

Void wrote:
uofrhopefull wrote: I made the statement over someone making a blanket assessment concerning things of which they do not have a full story.


Who'd you can an asshole? Did you delete your post? :D


Nicholas. You actually offered some sort of advice instead of immediate condemnation.

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2014
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Re: Character & Fitness Question

Postby 2014 » Fri Sep 30, 2011 6:50 pm

Jesus...

I think this might call for an addendum :P

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Nicholasnickynic
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Re: Character & Fitness Question

Postby Nicholasnickynic » Fri Sep 30, 2011 7:39 pm

uofrhopefull wrote:
Void wrote:
uofrhopefull wrote: I made the statement over someone making a blanket assessment concerning things of which they do not have a full story.


Who'd you can an asshole? Did you delete your post? :D


Nicholas. You actually offered some sort of advice instead of immediate condemnation.



Awwww keep it. I'm currently at being called an asshole 387 times on this board. I was hoping to make 400 by the end of the semester.

PMs calling me an asshole would be much appreciated!

bp shinners
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Re: Character & Fitness Question

Postby bp shinners » Mon Oct 03, 2011 12:34 pm

uofrhopefull wrote:That said, the most serious thing on here is the DUI in '06, and I haven't really had anything major since then. Any input on the impact these could have on possible bar admission (would not be applying until 2015 and presuming I don't receive any citations between now and then). I know every state is different, if anyone wants to chime in on their particular state it would be appreciated.


That's a troubling pattern.

You need to talk to an attorney who specializes in these cases. No one here is going to be able to give you a definitive answer re: passing C&F. Have someone who knows what they're talking about answer this for you, instead of some random people on an internet message board.

As far as admissions to law schools goes, as others have said, individually these don't give a reason to be concerned, outside of the DUI. However, together, they're probably going to create a problem for you. You need to write an addendum that presents you as responsible and mature, because your history says the exact opposite. Leave out any statements like, "That said, I have been found guilty of exactly 12 items in 16 years of driving. I know I have been charged with considerably more than that, but I did comply with law." To me, that makes it seem like you think 12 times in 16 years is a reasonable amount of violations to have been convicted of. It is not, or at least it isn't in the eyes of law schools.

uofrhopefull
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Re: Character & Fitness Question

Postby uofrhopefull » Mon Oct 03, 2011 8:18 pm

bp shinners wrote:
uofrhopefull wrote:That said, the most serious thing on here is the DUI in '06, and I haven't really had anything major since then. Any input on the impact these could have on possible bar admission (would not be applying until 2015 and presuming I don't receive any citations between now and then). I know every state is different, if anyone wants to chime in on their particular state it would be appreciated.


That's a troubling pattern.

You need to talk to an attorney who specializes in these cases. No one here is going to be able to give you a definitive answer re: passing C&F. Have someone who knows what they're talking about answer this for you, instead of some random people on an internet message board.

As far as admissions to law schools goes, as others have said, individually these don't give a reason to be concerned, outside of the DUI. However, together, they're probably going to create a problem for you. You need to write an addendum that presents you as responsible and mature, because your history says the exact opposite. Leave out any statements like, "That said, I have been found guilty of exactly 12 items in 16 years of driving. I know I have been charged with considerably more than that, but I did comply with law." To me, that makes it seem like you think 12 times in 16 years is a reasonable amount of violations to have been convicted of. It is not, or at least it isn't in the eyes of law schools.


Thanks for your advice. I have already scheduled an appointment with an attorney who specialized in C&F matters and I am hoping for the best.

The above-referenced quote was used as a direct response to a previous poster, not as a generalization or justification. I do agree that 12 times in 16 yeas is entirely too many. I'm hoping that no additional infractions between now and the date I apply for bar admission will show character growth and maturity. I know that the citations do paint a person who plays fast and loose with the law, which, as hard as it is to believe, is not the case.

I'm not concerned with the law school application, I will be completely forthcoming in my application, however, they ask only for arrests/convictions other than traffic violations.

scammedhard
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Re: Character & Fitness Question

Postby scammedhard » Mon Oct 03, 2011 8:31 pm

"Guilty in Abstentia"

Isn't that Failure to Appear?

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theadvancededit
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Re: Character & Fitness Question

Postby theadvancededit » Mon Oct 03, 2011 11:04 pm

scammedhard wrote:"Guilty in Abstentia"

Isn't that Failure to Appear?


Yup.

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laxbrah420
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Re: Character & Fitness Question

Postby laxbrah420 » Tue Oct 04, 2011 11:34 am

why wouldnt you show up to your dui hearing?

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laxbrah420
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Re: Character & Fitness Question

Postby laxbrah420 » Wed Oct 05, 2011 11:04 am

I have a question --when it says I need to attach documents pertaining to my case, do they need to be certified by the court or is the copy of my case chronology provided by my lawyer good enough (public pos of alcohol as a minor)?

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Nicholasnickynic
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Re: Character & Fitness Question

Postby Nicholasnickynic » Wed Oct 05, 2011 11:18 am

laxbrah420 wrote:I have a question --when it says I need to attach documents pertaining to my case, do they need to be certified by the court or is the copy of my case chronology provided by my lawyer good enough (public pos of alcohol as a minor)?


LaxBrah420? Are you for real or a troll?

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laxbrah420
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Re: Character & Fitness Question

Postby laxbrah420 » Wed Oct 05, 2011 1:44 pm

Im pretty real. do you know the answer to my question

uofrhopefull
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Re: Character & Fitness Question

Postby uofrhopefull » Wed Mar 14, 2012 4:30 pm

Anybody else?

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Gail
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Re: Character & Fitness Question

Postby Gail » Wed Mar 14, 2012 7:00 pm

straxen wrote:There is no explanation for the sheer number of violations other than an utter lack of responsibility/respect for authority. If you don't have a driver's license, your car isn't in drivable condition, or your car isn't registered, then don't drive.

Point is, you have to take responsibility and own your violations, which it is not evident that you have done. If you've changed your attitude toward responsibility, you need to demonstrate that. If you haven't, which calling people assholes for telling you the truth seems to indicate, don't bother with the legal profession.


How would one even demonstrate that though? Take Safety classes once a year?

OP, As a self-proclaimed crappy driver, I really hope this doesn't hurt you. I'm not sure how the bar is going to view this. Reading their little appeal things, I don't see a lot of stuff regarding traffic by itself. DUI seems to be the most common or having an egregious amount of unpaid tickets (400) or just not disclosing any of it. If it helps you, a few states that I've read don't make you put traffic tickets from over 5 years ago. But you are at least 26 and I think after you hit that 20 year old mark that it starts to look more suspect.

I can imagine there are more than a handful of lawyers with ~15 tickets during their teenage years and early 20's though. So I don't know, dude

Honestly, America has gotten really uptight about the rules of the road. If they had this level of enforcement and the amount of laws in regards to how people drive thirty years ago, there would be many, many more lawyers with checkered driving histories.


But that's the government. Always keeping the little man down. What's the big deal about quail hunting from the back of a moving pick up truck in the state park anyways???? :evil:

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bk1
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Re: Character & Fitness Question

Postby bk1 » Wed Mar 14, 2012 7:27 pm

uofrhopefull wrote:
bp shinners wrote:
uofrhopefull wrote:That said, the most serious thing on here is the DUI in '06, and I haven't really had anything major since then. Any input on the impact these could have on possible bar admission (would not be applying until 2015 and presuming I don't receive any citations between now and then). I know every state is different, if anyone wants to chime in on their particular state it would be appreciated.


That's a troubling pattern.

You need to talk to an attorney who specializes in these cases. No one here is going to be able to give you a definitive answer re: passing C&F. Have someone who knows what they're talking about answer this for you, instead of some random people on an internet message board.

As far as admissions to law schools goes, as others have said, individually these don't give a reason to be concerned, outside of the DUI. However, together, they're probably going to create a problem for you. You need to write an addendum that presents you as responsible and mature, because your history says the exact opposite. Leave out any statements like, "That said, I have been found guilty of exactly 12 items in 16 years of driving. I know I have been charged with considerably more than that, but I did comply with law." To me, that makes it seem like you think 12 times in 16 years is a reasonable amount of violations to have been convicted of. It is not, or at least it isn't in the eyes of law schools.


Thanks for your advice. I have already scheduled an appointment with an attorney who specialized in C&F matters and I am hoping for the best.

The above-referenced quote was used as a direct response to a previous poster, not as a generalization or justification. I do agree that 12 times in 16 yeas is entirely too many. I'm hoping that no additional infractions between now and the date I apply for bar admission will show character growth and maturity. I know that the citations do paint a person who plays fast and loose with the law, which, as hard as it is to believe, is not the case.

I'm not concerned with the law school application, I will be completely forthcoming in my application, however, they ask only for arrests/convictions other than traffic violations.


I agree with everything bp shinners posted. It's also important to note that some law school applications do ask for traffic violations.

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Jaeger
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Re: Character & Fitness Question

Postby Jaeger » Wed Mar 14, 2012 8:01 pm

You should not have a car. Ever again.

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JCFindley
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Re: Character & Fitness Question

Postby JCFindley » Wed Mar 14, 2012 8:55 pm

So what year is your Camaro? Well, I guess for this generation it would be a Honda or Acura.....

Some schools don't even ask for traffic violations BTW. For the ones that did, I had to admit I probably couldn't remember them all but I tried.

I have no advice or clue on the C&F but good luck and hope it won't be an issue for ya.

Now go watch the Fast and the Furious and take a break from it all.....

JC




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