U. of Illinois Law suspends Dean of Admissions

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Yukos
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Re: U. of Illinois Law suspends Dean of Admissions

Postby Yukos » Thu Sep 29, 2011 8:23 am

MumofCad wrote:I've avoided posting in this thread like the plague until the full story came out.

I don't know enough about legal hiring or the Chicago market or UNSWR rankings to really recommend a punishment/pontificate about what the future will hold for Illinois students. However, I think it is clear from this thread that the vast majority of those who do can easily separate the guiltless student body from the culpable school. It seems that most (maybe all) agree that the school should pay its due, but in a way that doesn't hurt the student body. One can only hope that employers will take the same stand on the issue. They are hopefully not too removed from the law school experience to understand the position this places the students in. The numbers are not hugely fudged except for this incoming class, which would have found themselves in a less desirable position even without the incorrect reporting given the fact that it was clearly just a bad recruiting year.

Could the ABA possibly not allow them to take in a class for a year, following the already admitted students? Seems like that would punish them financially and hinder their employment prospects without punishing the current students, who are really victims of the scandal. Maybe hiring then would even bump a little for them since they would be the last Illinois class for a year or two for alum to rally around at their firms?


The death penalty for law schools. It took SMU 20 years to recover, how long for UIUC?

MumofCad
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Re: U. of Illinois Law suspends Dean of Admissions

Postby MumofCad » Thu Sep 29, 2011 10:34 am

Nightrunner wrote:
MumofCad wrote:I've avoided posting in this thread like the plague until the full story came out.

I don't know enough about legal hiring or the Chicago market or UNSWR rankings to really recommend a punishment/pontificate about what the future will hold for Illinois students. However, I think it is clear from this thread that the vast majority of those who do can easily separate the guiltless student body from the culpable school. It seems that most (maybe all) agree that the school should pay its due, but in a way that doesn't hurt the student body. One can only hope that employers will take the same stand on the issue. They are hopefully not too removed from the law school experience to understand the position this places the students in. The numbers are not hugely fudged except for this incoming class, which would have found themselves in a less desirable position even without the incorrect reporting given the fact that it was clearly just a bad recruiting year.

Could the ABA possibly not allow them to take in a class for a year, following the already admitted students? Seems like that would punish them financially and hinder their employment prospects without punishing the current students, who are really victims of the scandal. Maybe hiring then would even bump a little for them since they would be the last Illinois class for a year or two for alum to rally around at their firms?

The line between optimism and wishful thinking has been breached.

I don't think students will be "punished," but don't be surprised when some hiring managers differentiate between "top third in a field of 162s" and "top third in a field of 167s."


This is not suffering based on the deception, you are describing a detriment based on their actual numbers. As I said, that would have been true either way for the incoming class because they simply didn't have the numbers of their predecessors. They are going to pay a toll for the poor recruiting of their class, but really their numbers are part and parcel to the issue and could have occurred at any school in the system. I'm talking about discrimination based on the larger blow to the school's esteem from its intentional deception of employers. I think that's pretty clear from a careful reading of my words. The two are separate issues. In one, the students are totally innocent victims. In the other, the problem is based on their own performance.

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thexfactor
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Re: U. of Illinois Law suspends Dean of Admissions

Postby thexfactor » Thu Sep 29, 2011 10:42 am

im not sure how much having a 163 avg will hurt UIUC in the future. Just look at wustl. How much have high medians been helping them? Their medians this year are 168! and they can't even outplace ND!

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Hannibal
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Re: U. of Illinois Law suspends Dean of Admissions

Postby Hannibal » Thu Sep 29, 2011 10:45 am

thexfactor wrote:im not sure how much having a 163 avg will hurt UIUC in the future. Just look at wustl. How much have high medians been helping them? Their medians this year are 168! and they can't even outplace ND!


Do you think about things before you say them?

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NancyBotwin
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Re: U. of Illinois Law suspends Dean of Admissions

Postby NancyBotwin » Thu Sep 29, 2011 10:53 am

Helmholtz wrote:
Damn, dude. She was all "the median is 167" and you were all "oh no it's not!" and then the stuff came out showing the median actually was 167 and you were like, "LOL told you so, damn I'm good, I TOLD ALL OF YOU, I AM GOD."

:lol:

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zozin
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Re: U. of Illinois Law suspends Dean of Admissions

Postby zozin » Thu Sep 29, 2011 10:58 am

thexfactor wrote:im not sure how much having a 163 avg will hurt UIUC in the future. Just look at wustl. How much have high medians been helping them? Their medians this year are 168! and they can't even outplace ND!

That's probably because ND has been a top-25 school since the early 1990s. It takes time for a school to establish itself and its students as top notch. You can message the numbers to increase your ranking every year in the USNews, but hiring most likely takes years/decades to catch up. And that's probably what's going to happen to UIUC.

The current classes aren't going to be helped by the scandal, but I doubt they'll suffer a severe blow in hiring. But as the school drops from 23 to the 30/40s, high scoring students will no longer apply to the school. I would say the majority of law school applicants don't really look at the tangible employment statistics such as NLJ250. They buy USNews, look at the rankings and see what's the best school they can get into. Why go to UIUC with 3.5/168 when WUSTL/IU/Minnesota will offer you $$$ and they're ranked 10-15 spots better than UIUC. Unless Illinois can offer some sort of incentive over peer Midwest schools, I see them staying in the 30/40s for the foreseeable future.

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NancyBotwin
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Re: U. of Illinois Law suspends Dean of Admissions

Postby NancyBotwin » Thu Sep 29, 2011 11:13 am

zozin wrote:Why go to UIUC with 3.5/168 when WUSTL/IU/Minnesota will offer you $$$ and they're ranked 10-15 spots better than UIUC. Unless Illinois can offer some sort of incentive over peer Midwest schools, I see them staying in the 30/40s for the foreseeable future.

Not that it will necessarily make a huge difference, considering the kind of money those schools offer, but UIUC is and has been super generous. Last I heard, not one person in the class of 2014 came in without some money. I doubt that will change much, especially considering that it seems alums are still willing to donate money to the school (see the $1mil gift that was promised after the scandal began).

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JamMasterJ
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Re: U. of Illinois Law suspends Dean of Admissions

Postby JamMasterJ » Thu Sep 29, 2011 11:44 am

NancyBotwin wrote:
zozin wrote:Why go to UIUC with 3.5/168 when WUSTL/IU/Minnesota will offer you $$$ and they're ranked 10-15 spots better than UIUC. Unless Illinois can offer some sort of incentive over peer Midwest schools, I see them staying in the 30/40s for the foreseeable future.

Not that it will necessarily make a huge difference, considering the kind of money those schools offer, but UIUC is and has been super generous. Last I heard, not one person in the class of 2014 came in without some money. I doubt that will change much, especially considering that it seems alums are still willing to donate money to the school (see the $1mil gift that was promised after the scandal began).

Yeah, everyone got a scholly last year. That and the locked tuition were very cool.

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YourCaptain
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Re: U. of Illinois Law suspends Dean of Admissions

Postby YourCaptain » Thu Sep 29, 2011 12:22 pm

sparty99 wrote:I recuse myself from any future posts regarding this topic. I go to a rival school and could personally not give a rats a$$ about Illinois and look forward to seeing their rankings drop, considerably.

Now I have to go read cases, ya'll ruined my studying.


viewtopic.php?f=9&t=140660&p=4034776#p4034776

So uh, 140?

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romothesavior
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Re: U. of Illinois Law suspends Dean of Admissions

Postby romothesavior » Thu Sep 29, 2011 12:39 pm

YourCaptain wrote:
sparty99 wrote:I recuse myself from any future posts regarding this topic. I go to a rival school and could personally not give a rats a$$ about Illinois and look forward to seeing their rankings drop, considerably.

Now I have to go read cases, ya'll ruined my studying.


viewtopic.php?f=9&t=140660&p=4034776#p4034776

So uh, 140?

Lol wow, pathetic. No wonder this yahoo can't structure a coherent argument. He obviously sucks at logic.

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chrisbru
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Re: U. of Illinois Law suspends Dean of Admissions

Postby chrisbru » Thu Sep 29, 2011 12:44 pm

romothesavior wrote:
YourCaptain wrote:
sparty99 wrote:I recuse myself from any future posts regarding this topic. I go to a rival school and could personally not give a rats a$$ about Illinois and look forward to seeing their rankings drop, considerably.

Now I have to go read cases, ya'll ruined my studying.


http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 6#p4034776

So uh, 140?

Lol wow, pathetic. No wonder this yahoo can't structure a coherent argument. He obviously sucks at logic.


But he goes to a T30, Illinois peer school, with a full-ride... Come on now.

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romothesavior
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Re: U. of Illinois Law suspends Dean of Admissions

Postby romothesavior » Thu Sep 29, 2011 12:48 pm

Have any of you U of I students been asked about this in interviews or callbacks? I actually had it mentioned to me during a callback the other day, so I figured you guys might be getting asked too.

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NancyBotwin
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Re: U. of Illinois Law suspends Dean of Admissions

Postby NancyBotwin » Thu Sep 29, 2011 12:56 pm

romothesavior wrote:Have any of you U of I students been asked about this in interviews or callbacks? I actually had it mentioned to me during a callback the other day, so I figured you guys might be getting asked too.

I didn't do OCI, but I have heard that people have been asked about it, but usually just in a curious-want-to-know-what's-going-on way.

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Kilpatrick
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Re: U. of Illinois Law suspends Dean of Admissions

Postby Kilpatrick » Thu Sep 29, 2011 1:02 pm

I've been asked about it, but most people just seem curious about what's going on. I haven't got the vibe yet that it makes anyone feel differently about the school. I haven't talked with anybody since yesterday's news that it had been going on for years, but in all of my conversations everybody pretty much assumed that would be the case.

I honestly think the short term effects are going to be negligible. But the ranking will definitely fall so it will hurt us in the long run.

sparty99
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Re: U. of Illinois Law suspends Dean of Admissions

Postby sparty99 » Thu Sep 29, 2011 2:45 pm

romothesavior wrote:
YourCaptain wrote:
sparty99 wrote:I recuse myself from any future posts regarding this topic. I go to a rival school and could personally not give a rats a$$ about Illinois and look forward to seeing their rankings drop, considerably.

Now I have to go read cases, ya'll ruined my studying.


viewtopic.php?f=9&t=140660&p=4034776#p4034776

So uh, 140?

Lol wow, pathetic. No wonder this yahoo can't structure a coherent argument. He obviously sucks at logic.


Don't be trying to make me feel inferior, bro. My school is paid for and that's all you need to be concerned about.

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chrisbru
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Re: U. of Illinois Law suspends Dean of Admissions

Postby chrisbru » Thu Sep 29, 2011 2:48 pm

sparty99 wrote:
romothesavior wrote:
YourCaptain wrote:
sparty99 wrote:I recuse myself from any future posts regarding this topic. I go to a rival school and could personally not give a rats a$$ about Illinois and look forward to seeing their rankings drop, considerably.

Now I have to go read cases, ya'll ruined my studying.


http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 6#p4034776

So uh, 140?

Lol wow, pathetic. No wonder this yahoo can't structure a coherent argument. He obviously sucks at logic.


Don't be trying to make me feel inferior, bro. My school is paid for and that's all you need to be concerned about.



I don't think anyone actually believes your story, bro.

sparty99
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Re: U. of Illinois Law suspends Dean of Admissions

Postby sparty99 » Thu Sep 29, 2011 3:32 pm

viewtopic.php?f=9&t=140660&p=4034776#p4034776

So uh, 140?[/quote]
Lol wow, pathetic. No wonder this yahoo can't structure a coherent argument. He obviously sucks at logic.[/quote]

Don't be trying to make me feel inferior, bro. My school is paid for and that's all you need to be concerned about.[/quote]


I don't think anyone actually believes your story, bro.[/quote]


That is none of my concern. My bank account believes my story.

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Chupavida
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Re: U. of Illinois Law suspends Dean of Admissions

Postby Chupavida » Thu Sep 29, 2011 3:36 pm

.
Last edited by Chupavida on Wed Jun 19, 2013 2:03 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Helmholtz
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Re: U. of Illinois Law suspends Dean of Admissions

Postby Helmholtz » Thu Sep 29, 2011 3:38 pm

sparty99 wrote:That is none of my concern. My bank account believes my story.


no way this guy is real

sparty99
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Re: U. of Illinois Law suspends Dean of Admissions

Postby sparty99 » Thu Sep 29, 2011 4:09 pm

Helmholtz wrote:
sparty99 wrote:That is none of my concern. My bank account believes my story.


no way this guy is real


I'm a real as it gets. Now if you excuse me, I have class.

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soj
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Re: U. of Illinois Law suspends Dean of Admissions

Postby soj » Thu Sep 29, 2011 4:17 pm

sparty99 wrote:
Helmholtz wrote:
sparty99 wrote:That is none of my concern. My bank account believes my story.


no way this guy is real


I'm a real as it gets. Now if you excuse me, I have class.

Sassy.

Just getting back on topic, though, since medians changed from 167/3.6 last year to 163/3.7 this year, I'm guessing it's true that too many reverse splitters and too few splitters matriculated. Obviously not a good trade-off in medians, but it's not too unreasonable. I guess this kind of big fluctuation can happen if you play the numbers game as many schools do.

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tttlllsss
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Re: U. of Illinois Law suspends Dean of Admissions

Postby tttlllsss » Thu Sep 29, 2011 5:20 pm

sparty99 wrote:My school is paid for and that's all you need to be concerned about.

sparty99 wrote:My bank account believes my story.

sparty99 wrote:I'm a real as it gets. Now if you excuse me, I have class.

Image

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NiccoloA
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Re: U. of Illinois Law suspends Dean of Admissions

Postby NiccoloA » Thu Sep 29, 2011 5:25 pm

Anyone think that the ABA will try to use this to send a message? Or do they really just only care when you get caught?


Tier 2 seems like a possibility to me. Damn.

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danquayle
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Re: U. of Illinois Law suspends Dean of Admissions

Postby danquayle » Thu Sep 29, 2011 5:36 pm

sparty99 wrote:As someone who has worked in recruiting, at no point did I consult the U.S. News & World Report rankings to decide where I should recruit students. The only people who care about that are the dumb students applying to law school and the prestige-wh*re admissions officers who want the "highest number."

Illinois (not just the law program) is top notch. The law school has been around since the 1800's. The Illini have the largest alumni base in Chicago. Thus, many of the clients would have gone to the University of Illinois to study business, engineering, law, etc. Are they all of a sudden going to stop recruiting at their alma mater? DOUBT IT. Plus, law school rankings HARDLY change. The schools that are at the top are the same schools that were at the top 10 years ago....a little scandal isn't going to change the hiring perceptions of Illinois students.


No way!!!

Edit: Oh, I already missed out on the fun. nvm.


Spartyon bro!

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danquayle
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Re: U. of Illinois Law suspends Dean of Admissions

Postby danquayle » Thu Sep 29, 2011 5:46 pm

sparty99 wrote:My stats are the following:

(1) 3.6 GPA and was a member of my school's honors college program
(2) 140 - 145 LSAT
(3) Graduated from a well known, Big 10 University - Business Major
(4) African American Male
(5) Worked in strategy consulting at Accenture
(6) Studied abroad

My LSAT does not represent my academic ability as I scored a 950 out of 1600 on the SAT.
I recently took the December test and will take the February test. I am applying for Fall 2011, both full time and part time programs.


This guy has to be one of the greatest flames of all time. I don't believe this person can actually exist.




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