U. of Illinois Law suspends Dean of Admissions

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Tiago Splitter
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Re: U. of Illinois Law suspends Dean of Admissions

Postby Tiago Splitter » Tue Sep 27, 2011 12:37 am

chimp wrote:
Tiago Splitter wrote:
chimp wrote:
JamMasterJ wrote:If the medians stay the same across the board for the most part, how are good schools getting harder to get into?


Because they would be accepting significantly less people theoretically.


That wouldn't matter.


Well it would depend on how significant the decrease is.


The are two ways medians can stay the same while class sizes drop:

1) Schools become less selective with regard to numbers (focus more on softs, etc.)
2) Fewer people apply

Schools still don't care about softs...

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birdlaw117
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Re: U. of Illinois Law suspends Dean of Admissions

Postby birdlaw117 » Tue Sep 27, 2011 1:49 am

Tiago Splitter wrote:
chimp wrote:
JamMasterJ wrote:If the medians stay the same across the board for the most part, how are good schools getting harder to get into?


Because they would be accepting significantly less people theoretically.


That wouldn't matter.

It's a comparative thing. Which means it matters which scenarios we're comparing. If you compare it with last year's cycle, then you could make the argument that it isn't any more difficult to get into (not sure I agree with this, but it's definitely arguable). However, if you compare it with the theoretical cycle in which they don't reduce their class size, it would most definitely be more difficult to get into a given school. They are artificially raising their medians, which effectively means they are artificially increasing their selectivity. That's an oversimplification, I realize, but I when I made my point I was using the second comparison rather than the first.

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romothesavior
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Re: U. of Illinois Law suspends Dean of Admissions

Postby romothesavior » Tue Sep 27, 2011 2:20 am

Cool stories bros.

HeavenWood
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Re: U. of Illinois Law suspends Dean of Admissions

Postby HeavenWood » Tue Sep 27, 2011 1:08 pm

Tiago Splitter wrote:In semi-related news, George Mason was able to keep its medians intact but only by reducing its class size from 303 to 186. Maybe this was finally the year that schools in this range got crushed for trying to keep both class sizes and medians up.

GMU rejected me :(

Wart
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Re: U. of Illinois Law suspends Dean of Admissions

Postby Wart » Wed Sep 28, 2011 10:56 am

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Last edited by Wart on Sun Feb 12, 2012 11:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Kilpatrick
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Re: U. of Illinois Law suspends Dean of Admissions

Postby Kilpatrick » Wed Sep 28, 2011 10:59 am

Luckily our career services will be giving a lecture today about how to tap into the "hidden" job market by learning to network like a boss. lolol

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Thirteen
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Re: U. of Illinois Law suspends Dean of Admissions

Postby Thirteen » Wed Sep 28, 2011 11:11 am

Wart wrote:Update: Two reps from the ABA (Ed Butterfoss and Scott Norberg) are on campus all day today doing some of their own fact-finding.

Given that we know this year's fake numbers were never transmitted to the ABA, this could be an indication that past years' numbers were involved in the fudging. Ugh.


Awesome names.

CanadianWolf
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Re: U. of Illinois Law suspends Dean of Admissions

Postby CanadianWolf » Wed Sep 28, 2011 12:22 pm

Professor Norberg heads ABA site inspection teams for ABA approval.
Professor Butterfoss is a criminal procedure expert. Chair ABA Standards Review Committee.

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NiccoloA
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Re: U. of Illinois Law suspends Dean of Admissions

Postby NiccoloA » Wed Sep 28, 2011 1:02 pm

As a selfish 0L I just want to know whether I should still go to UIUC if I get in (with money)?


Will the job prospects plunge because of this? The network is still strong in Illinois right? My family have become doctors out of UIUC, I would have liked to continue the tradition of Urbana professionals. :(

CanadianWolf
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Re: U. of Illinois Law suspends Dean of Admissions

Postby CanadianWolf » Wed Sep 28, 2011 1:09 pm

Wait for the results of the investigation & wait & see what your options are for law school. For example, if Illinois receives a suspension from the ABA, then you probably should focus on your other options. If you are admitted to a top 20 law school, then you need to consider seriously those options, in my opinion.
If, however, you are reasonably certain that you have a job lined up after law school & receive a scholarship, then Illinois should receive strong consideration because of the strength of the faculty.

CanadianWolf
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Re: U. of Illinois Law suspends Dean of Admissions

Postby CanadianWolf » Wed Sep 28, 2011 1:23 pm

A significant consideration is that this investigation centers on & affects not only the ethics of the law school, but also on the measurable quality of the law students. Competition from other law schools in the region is fierce for biglaw positions in Chicago.

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mez06
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Re: U. of Illinois Law suspends Dean of Admissions

Postby mez06 » Wed Sep 28, 2011 2:43 pm

CanadianWolf wrote:A significant consideration is that this investigation centers on & affects not only the ethics of the law school, but also on the measurable quality of the law students. Competition from other law schools in the region is fierce for biglaw positions in Chicago.


The only flaw in making that justification for the Chicago market is that "the measurable quality of law students" to those firms is based upon firm productivity of the various feeder schools associates.

Your point might (probably) will be true for markets outside of Chicago that don't have this natural familiarity.

Toughquestions
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Re: U. of Illinois Law suspends Dean of Admissions

Postby Toughquestions » Wed Sep 28, 2011 2:47 pm

Update from the administration:

I have previously reported to you that profile data (median LSAT and median GPA) for the class of 2014 disseminated by the College of Law were inaccurate, and that the College has since posted accurate, verified data on its website. Ten years of profiles have been rigorously reviewed, and the inquiry has now determined that student profile data for the classes of 2011, 2012, and 2013 were also inaccurate. The accurate, verified data for these classes (and the previously reported data, indicated in parentheses) are as follows: Class of 2011: LSAT 165 (166) and GPA 3.6 (3.6); Class of 2012: LSAT 165 (166) and GPA 3.7 (3.8); and Class of 2013: LSAT 167 (167) and GPA 3.6 (3.8).


So it looks like they really did just fuck things up this year.

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chrisbru
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Re: U. of Illinois Law suspends Dean of Admissions

Postby chrisbru » Wed Sep 28, 2011 2:49 pm

Toughquestions wrote:Update from the administration:

I have previously reported to you that profile data (median LSAT and median GPA) for the class of 2014 disseminated by the College of Law were inaccurate, and that the College has since posted accurate, verified data on its website. Ten years of profiles have been rigorously reviewed, and the inquiry has now determined that student profile data for the classes of 2011, 2012, and 2013 were also inaccurate. The accurate, verified data for these classes (and the previously reported data, indicated in parentheses) are as follows: Class of 2011: LSAT 165 (166) and GPA 3.6 (3.6); Class of 2012: LSAT 165 (166) and GPA 3.7 (3.8); and Class of 2013: LSAT 167 (167) and GPA 3.6 (3.8).


So it looks like they really did just fuck things up this year.



Not as big of inaccuracies, at least? But still... Whoa.

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Helmholtz
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Re: U. of Illinois Law suspends Dean of Admissions

Postby Helmholtz » Wed Sep 28, 2011 2:50 pm

I have previously reported to you that profile data (median LSAT and median GPA) for the class of 2014 disseminated by the College of Law were inaccurate, and that the College has since posted accurate, verified data on its website. Ten years of profiles have been rigorously reviewed, and the inquiry has now determined that student profile data for the classes of 2011, 2012, and 2013 were also inaccurate. The accurate, verified data for these classes (and the previously reported data, indicated in parentheses) are as follows: Class of 2011: LSAT 165 (166) and GPA 3.6 (3.6); Class of 2012: LSAT 165 (166) and GPA 3.7 (3.8); and Class of 2013: LSAT 167 (167) and GPA 3.6 (3.8).


damn

Four years of reporting inaccurate data? Maybe they could have kept the racket up by just cheating the numbers a (relatively) small amount instead of the epic five point LSAT reworking they did this year.

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Thirteen
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Re: U. of Illinois Law suspends Dean of Admissions

Postby Thirteen » Wed Sep 28, 2011 2:52 pm

chrisbru wrote:
Toughquestions wrote:Update from the administration:

I have previously reported to you that profile data (median LSAT and median GPA) for the class of 2014 disseminated by the College of Law were inaccurate, and that the College has since posted accurate, verified data on its website. Ten years of profiles have been rigorously reviewed, and the inquiry has now determined that student profile data for the classes of 2011, 2012, and 2013 were also inaccurate. The accurate, verified data for these classes (and the previously reported data, indicated in parentheses) are as follows: Class of 2011: LSAT 165 (166) and GPA 3.6 (3.6); Class of 2012: LSAT 165 (166) and GPA 3.7 (3.8); and Class of 2013: LSAT 167 (167) and GPA 3.6 (3.8).


So it looks like they really did just fuck things up this year.



Not as big of inaccuracies, at least? But still... Whoa.


My thoughts exactly. Also, none of the reported numbers were lower than the actual numbers. It'll be interesting what happens to the rest of the administration.

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Helmholtz
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Re: U. of Illinois Law suspends Dean of Admissions

Postby Helmholtz » Wed Sep 28, 2011 2:52 pm

NiccoloA wrote:As a selfish 0L I just want to know whether I should still go to UIUC if I get in (with money)?


Will the job prospects plunge because of this? The network is still strong in Illinois right? My family have become doctors out of UIUC, I would have liked to continue the tradition of Urbana professionals. :(


It depends on what your other options are, but honestly, I would stay the hell away from UIUC for the time being.

Does anybody know what kind of possible sanctions the ABA might use (if any)?

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chrisbru
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Re: U. of Illinois Law suspends Dean of Admissions

Postby chrisbru » Wed Sep 28, 2011 2:53 pm

Thirteen wrote:
chrisbru wrote:

Not as big of inaccuracies, at least? But still... Whoa.


My thoughts exactly. Also, none of the reported numbers were lower than the actual numbers. It'll be interesting what happens to the rest of the administration.


I feel like this is probably good indication that all 4 years of data were fudged, and not "mis-reported"

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Chupavida
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Re: U. of Illinois Law suspends Dean of Admissions

Postby Chupavida » Wed Sep 28, 2011 2:54 pm

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Last edited by Chupavida on Wed Jun 19, 2013 1:59 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Thirteen
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Re: U. of Illinois Law suspends Dean of Admissions

Postby Thirteen » Wed Sep 28, 2011 2:55 pm

Shit, I wonder if this will have any effect on Dean Meyer's new job as the dean at Tulane, or might cause them to investigate their law school.

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NancyBotwin
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Re: U. of Illinois Law suspends Dean of Admissions

Postby NancyBotwin » Wed Sep 28, 2011 3:00 pm

Alright, well, now I don't know what to think. :| Dammit.

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DreamsInDigital
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Re: U. of Illinois Law suspends Dean of Admissions

Postby DreamsInDigital » Wed Sep 28, 2011 3:01 pm

NancyBotwin wrote:Alright, well, now I don't know what to think. :| Dammit.

CanadianWolf
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Re: U. of Illinois Law suspends Dean of Admissions

Postby CanadianWolf » Wed Sep 28, 2011 3:05 pm

mezo6 ???? "...firm productivity of the various feeder schools associates..." ???
Could you elaborate, please ?

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chup
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Re: U. of Illinois Law suspends Dean of Admissions

Postby chup » Wed Sep 28, 2011 3:07 pm

I'm going to LOL so hard if this year's heavy skew was actually an unintended fuck-up but led to genuine fraud being discovered.

CanadianWolf
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Re: U. of Illinois Law suspends Dean of Admissions

Postby CanadianWolf » Wed Sep 28, 2011 3:15 pm

Probably had something to do with the slight fall in US News rankings from #21 in 2011 to #23 in 2012.

Unfortunately, four consecutive years of misreporting crucial data calls for a change of leadership. Plus, this may help lessen any ABA penalty.




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