U. of Illinois Law suspends Dean of Admissions

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NancyBotwin
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Re: U. of Illinois Law suspends Dean of Admissions

Postby NancyBotwin » Fri Sep 23, 2011 3:04 pm

Cornelius wrote:
crumpetsandtea wrote:
Cornelius wrote:I am, actually, a statistics genius

:lol: :lol: :lol: Seriously, bro? GTFOver yourself.

The point was that NancyBotwin's comment was ludicrous, because anyone with even a basic, high school level understanding of statistics could see her "evidence" was garbage. Also, again, not everyone is going to law school because they made poor choices and got a useless undergrad degree.


Thank you, again, for drilling down a point that has already been made over and over and over again. Yes, I used anecdotal evidence to suggest that the stats for my class might be accurate. Get over it. Until I am proven wrong, I can believe what I want about my class.

Also, thank you for suggesting that I'm in law school because I got a useless undergrad degree and made poor choices, when you know absolutely nothing about me. Congratulations on being some sort of statistics genius. I hope that works out for you. But really, if you can't say anything that is actually relevant to the topic and not just an attack on me, you should probably leave the thread.

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chrisbru
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Re: U. of Illinois Law suspends Dean of Admissions

Postby chrisbru » Fri Sep 23, 2011 3:17 pm

Cornelius wrote:The point was that NancyBotwin's comment was ludicrous, because anyone with even a basic, high school level understanding of statistics could see her "evidence" was garbage. Also, again, not everyone is going to law school because they made poor choices and got a useless undergrad degree.



Who invited this guy?

It's all speculation until the investigation results have been published. Can we stop with the attacks and get back on topic?

Any recent developments, Illini students?

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NancyBotwin
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Re: U. of Illinois Law suspends Dean of Admissions

Postby NancyBotwin » Fri Sep 23, 2011 3:18 pm

chrisbru wrote:Any recent developments, Illini students?

Nope.


Although we did apparently just get a $1mil donation for a professorship. So...there's that.

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Cornelius
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Re: U. of Illinois Law suspends Dean of Admissions

Postby Cornelius » Fri Sep 23, 2011 3:23 pm

NancyBotwin wrote:Thank you, again, for drilling down a point that has already been made over and over and over again. Yes, I used anecdotal evidence to suggest that the stats for my class might be accurate. Get over it. Until I am proven wrong, I can believe what I want about my class.

Also, thank you for suggesting that I'm in law school because I got a useless undergrad degree and made poor choices, when you know absolutely nothing about me. Congratulations on being some sort of statistics genius. I hope that works out for you. But really, if you can't say anything that is actually relevant to the topic and not just an attack on me, you should probably leave the thread.

Actually, I was defending myself against your thinly veiled insult, and doing nothing more, where you implied that only people with useless degrees would be in law school. Nice try at the deflection, though. And I believe discussion of LSAT medians is pretty on topic for a thread about false, intentionally manipulated LSAT data being presented by a school, don't you think? I understand it's a sensitive subject for you, but perhaps you could try being more civil and not tell people participating in the discussion with a point of view that disagrees with your own to leave.

You're obviously free to believe what you want despite evidence to the contrary, but don't present your opinion as some sort of evidence.
NancyBotwin wrote:And holy fucking shit people need to calm down about the fact that I used anecdotal evidence. Get over yourselves, you're not all statistics geniuses, otherwise you wouldn't be in law school.

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bjsesq
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Re: U. of Illinois Law suspends Dean of Admissions

Postby bjsesq » Fri Sep 23, 2011 3:47 pm

Cornelius wrote:
NancyBotwin wrote:Thank you, again, for drilling down a point that has already been made over and over and over again. Yes, I used anecdotal evidence to suggest that the stats for my class might be accurate. Get over it. Until I am proven wrong, I can believe what I want about my class.

Also, thank you for suggesting that I'm in law school because I got a useless undergrad degree and made poor choices, when you know absolutely nothing about me. Congratulations on being some sort of statistics genius. I hope that works out for you. But really, if you can't say anything that is actually relevant to the topic and not just an attack on me, you should probably leave the thread.

Actually, I was defending myself against your thinly veiled insult, and doing nothing more, where you implied that only people with useless degrees would be in law school. Nice try at the deflection, though. And I believe discussion of LSAT medians is pretty on topic for a thread about false, intentionally manipulated LSAT data being presented by a school, don't you think? I understand it's a sensitive subject for you, but perhaps you could try being more civil and not tell people participating in the discussion with a point of view that disagrees with your own to leave.

You're obviously free to believe what you want despite evidence to the contrary, but don't present your opinion as some sort of evidence.
NancyBotwin wrote:And holy fucking shit people need to calm down about the fact that I used anecdotal evidence. Get over yourselves, you're not all statistics geniuses, otherwise you wouldn't be in law school.


This entire thread is effing devoid of evidence, broheim. It's a bunch of people pontificating about what shit must have been like in the past based on the obviously wrong numbers this year. Let's not pretend like anybody is being held to any sort of evidentiary standard here.

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Tiago Splitter
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Re: U. of Illinois Law suspends Dean of Admissions

Postby Tiago Splitter » Fri Sep 23, 2011 3:53 pm

In semi-related news, George Mason was able to keep its medians intact but only by reducing its class size from 303 to 186. Maybe this was finally the year that schools in this range got crushed for trying to keep both class sizes and medians up.

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Cornelius
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Re: U. of Illinois Law suspends Dean of Admissions

Postby Cornelius » Fri Sep 23, 2011 4:01 pm

Tiago Splitter wrote:In semi-related news, George Mason was able to keep its medians intact but only by reducing its class size from 303 to 186. Maybe this was finally the year that schools in this range got crushed for trying to keep both class sizes and medians up.

Yeah but Illinois had a smaller class this year too. Granted, that was about 20% smaller and not 40% like George Mason.

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bouakedojo
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Re: U. of Illinois Law suspends Dean of Admissions

Postby bouakedojo » Fri Sep 23, 2011 6:59 pm

Cornelius wrote:Actually, I was defending myself against your thinly veiled insult...


Congrats, you are this year's butthurt award winner, you statistical genius you.



In other news, our dean sent out an email saying he stands by our medians and staked his reputation on it. Pretty cool.

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Tiago Splitter
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Re: U. of Illinois Law suspends Dean of Admissions

Postby Tiago Splitter » Fri Sep 23, 2011 7:05 pm

bouakedojo wrote:

In other news, our dean sent out an email saying he stands by our medians and staked his reputation on it. Pretty cool.


Last year's medians and those before, right?

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Bildungsroman
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Re: U. of Illinois Law suspends Dean of Admissions

Postby Bildungsroman » Fri Sep 23, 2011 7:07 pm

bouakedojo wrote:In other news, our dean sent out an email saying he stands by our medians and staked his reputation on it. Pretty cool.

"Pretty cool" that he staked his reputation on this school not being a continually corrupt cesspool? Hopefully every dean realizes that they are only as good as the worst part of their administration and recognizes that their own reputation is tied to their school's honesty whether they consent to it or not. If it turns out that Illinois's misreporting was a deliberate act of deceit then more people should be canned then just the direct perpetrator. There will need to be serious questions about the kind of environment and the kind of focus that can lead someone to blatantly falsify data.

Tiago Splitter wrote:
bouakedojo wrote:

In other news, our dean sent out an email saying he stands by our medians and staked his reputation on it. Pretty cool.


Last year's medians and those before, right?

Dude goes to WUSTL; he's not talking about UIUC.

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bouakedojo
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Re: U. of Illinois Law suspends Dean of Admissions

Postby bouakedojo » Fri Sep 23, 2011 8:01 pm

Bildungsroman wrote:Hopefully every dean realizes that they are only as good as the worst part of their administration and recognizes that their own reputation is tied to their school's honesty whether they consent to it or not. If it turns out that Illinois's misreporting was a deliberate act of deceit then more people should be canned then just the direct perpetrator. There will need to be serious questions about the kind of environment and the kind of focus that can lead someone to blatantly falsify data.


Couldn't agree more.

Total Litigator
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Re: U. of Illinois Law suspends Dean of Admissions

Postby Total Litigator » Sat Sep 24, 2011 12:17 am

Cornelius wrote:
Tiago Splitter wrote:In semi-related news, George Mason was able to keep its medians intact but only by reducing its class size from 303 to 186. Maybe this was finally the year that schools in this range got crushed for trying to keep both class sizes and medians up.

Yeah but Illinois had a smaller class this year too. Granted, that was about 20% smaller and not 40% like George Mason.



Dang... if that is representative of other law schools, it gonna be one hell of a transfer season. I'm jealous.

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Lawquacious
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Re: U. of Illinois Law suspends Dean of Admissions

Postby Lawquacious » Sat Sep 24, 2011 12:40 am

edited for propriety

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romothesavior
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Re: U. of Illinois Law suspends Dean of Admissions

Postby romothesavior » Mon Sep 26, 2011 4:10 pm

Any new news?

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Sapientia
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Re: U. of Illinois Law suspends Dean of Admissions

Postby Sapientia » Mon Sep 26, 2011 4:35 pm

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Last edited by Sapientia on Wed Dec 07, 2011 10:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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vanwinkle
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Re: U. of Illinois Law suspends Dean of Admissions

Postby vanwinkle » Mon Sep 26, 2011 4:53 pm

Tiago Splitter wrote:In semi-related news, George Mason was able to keep its medians intact but only by reducing its class size from 303 to 186. Maybe this was finally the year that schools in this range got crushed for trying to keep both class sizes and medians up.

I just noticed this. This is freaking huge. Maybe there actually is a form of economic pressure to keep the number of law school seats from expanding? Schools have incentive to maintain/raise their rankings, and reducing the number of seats both helps with raising medians and (presumably) increases the amount of money spent on each student. This could become a new thing.

But I digress. Then again, at least I'm digressing onto something still admissions-related...

Wart
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Re: U. of Illinois Law suspends Dean of Admissions

Postby Wart » Mon Sep 26, 2011 5:12 pm

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Last edited by Wart on Sun Feb 12, 2012 11:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.

071816
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Re: U. of Illinois Law suspends Dean of Admissions

Postby 071816 » Mon Sep 26, 2011 5:14 pm

vanwinkle wrote:
Tiago Splitter wrote:In semi-related news, George Mason was able to keep its medians intact but only by reducing its class size from 303 to 186. Maybe this was finally the year that schools in this range got crushed for trying to keep both class sizes and medians up.

I just noticed this. This is freaking huge. Maybe there actually is a form of economic pressure to keep the number of law school seats from expanding? Schools have incentive to maintain/raise their rankings, and reducing the number of seats both helps with raising medians and (presumably) increases the amount of money spent on each student. This could become a new thing.

But I digress. Then again, at least I'm digressing onto something still admissions-related...


Hopefully.

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Re: U. of Illinois Law suspends Dean of Admissions

Postby birdlaw117 » Mon Sep 26, 2011 5:18 pm

vanwinkle wrote:
Tiago Splitter wrote:In semi-related news, George Mason was able to keep its medians intact but only by reducing its class size from 303 to 186. Maybe this was finally the year that schools in this range got crushed for trying to keep both class sizes and medians up.

I just noticed this. This is freaking huge. Maybe there actually is a form of economic pressure to keep the number of law school seats from expanding? Schools have incentive to maintain/raise their rankings, and reducing the number of seats both helps with raising medians and (presumably) increases the amount of money spent on each student. This could become a new thing.

But I digress. Then again, at least I'm digressing onto something still admissions-related...

I feel like as long as there are schools willing to take the leftovers it still won't be enough. As long as people are willing to attend any law school at any price reducing class sizes at higher ranked schools will only create a market for new TTTT schools or larger classes at the current TTTT schools.

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chrisbru
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Re: U. of Illinois Law suspends Dean of Admissions

Postby chrisbru » Mon Sep 26, 2011 5:55 pm

birdlaw117 wrote:
vanwinkle wrote:
Tiago Splitter wrote:In semi-related news, George Mason was able to keep its medians intact but only by reducing its class size from 303 to 186. Maybe this was finally the year that schools in this range got crushed for trying to keep both class sizes and medians up.

I just noticed this. This is freaking huge. Maybe there actually is a form of economic pressure to keep the number of law school seats from expanding? Schools have incentive to maintain/raise their rankings, and reducing the number of seats both helps with raising medians and (presumably) increases the amount of money spent on each student. This could become a new thing.

But I digress. Then again, at least I'm digressing onto something still admissions-related...

I feel like as long as there are schools willing to take the leftovers it still won't be enough. As long as people are willing to attend any law school at any price reducing class sizes at higher ranked schools will only create a market for new TTTT schools or larger classes at the current TTTT schools.



But, at least in theory, placement numbers for Tier 1, and even tier 2, schools should see an increase.

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birdlaw117
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Re: U. of Illinois Law suspends Dean of Admissions

Postby birdlaw117 » Mon Sep 26, 2011 6:58 pm

chrisbru wrote:
birdlaw117 wrote:
vanwinkle wrote:
Tiago Splitter wrote:In semi-related news, George Mason was able to keep its medians intact but only by reducing its class size from 303 to 186. Maybe this was finally the year that schools in this range got crushed for trying to keep both class sizes and medians up.

I just noticed this. This is freaking huge. Maybe there actually is a form of economic pressure to keep the number of law school seats from expanding? Schools have incentive to maintain/raise their rankings, and reducing the number of seats both helps with raising medians and (presumably) increases the amount of money spent on each student. This could become a new thing.

But I digress. Then again, at least I'm digressing onto something still admissions-related...

I feel like as long as there are schools willing to take the leftovers it still won't be enough. As long as people are willing to attend any law school at any price reducing class sizes at higher ranked schools will only create a market for new TTTT schools or larger classes at the current TTTT schools.



But, at least in theory, placement numbers for Tier 1, and even tier 2, schools should see an increase.

Yeah but that doesn't really mean anything. They would place better, but they would be more difficult to get into. It's only shifting the issue, not addressing it.

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JamMasterJ
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Re: U. of Illinois Law suspends Dean of Admissions

Postby JamMasterJ » Tue Sep 27, 2011 12:23 am

If the medians stay the same across the board for the most part, how are good schools getting harder to get into?

071816
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Re: U. of Illinois Law suspends Dean of Admissions

Postby 071816 » Tue Sep 27, 2011 12:28 am

JamMasterJ wrote:If the medians stay the same across the board for the most part, how are good schools getting harder to get into?


Because they would be accepting significantly less people theoretically.

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Tiago Splitter
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Re: U. of Illinois Law suspends Dean of Admissions

Postby Tiago Splitter » Tue Sep 27, 2011 12:29 am

chimp wrote:
JamMasterJ wrote:If the medians stay the same across the board for the most part, how are good schools getting harder to get into?


Because they would be accepting significantly less people theoretically.


That wouldn't matter.

071816
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Re: U. of Illinois Law suspends Dean of Admissions

Postby 071816 » Tue Sep 27, 2011 12:32 am

Tiago Splitter wrote:
chimp wrote:
JamMasterJ wrote:If the medians stay the same across the board for the most part, how are good schools getting harder to get into?


Because they would be accepting significantly less people theoretically.


That wouldn't matter.


Well it would depend on how significant the decrease is.




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