U. of Illinois Law suspends Dean of Admissions

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NancyBotwin
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Re: U. of Illinois Law suspends Dean of Admissions

Postby NancyBotwin » Thu Sep 22, 2011 7:04 pm

Helmholtz wrote:
NancyBotwin wrote:Whatever. I still maintain that it is isolated to this year, and to only admissions stats and not employment stats.


Out of honest-to-goodness curiosity, why? (I assume you have your reasons and are more in-tune with what's going on a lot more than I or most posters on this thread are.) Is it because you still suspect it all being a mistake, thus increasing the possibility it would only happen one year?

I have spoken with Pless. I believe him. That's all I'm going to say.

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NancyBotwin
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Re: U. of Illinois Law suspends Dean of Admissions

Postby NancyBotwin » Thu Sep 22, 2011 7:05 pm

nucky thompson wrote:yo nancy - keep smoking the reefer. you can maintain whatever you want but that does not make it true. Just because your huge group of friends all tell you they scored a 167 does not mean your huge group of friends is representative of your class - evidenced by the true median at 163. People were bashing you for using anecdotal evidence because you were bashing/getting ultra defensive when people used similar logical flaws to support their assertions. just dial it down

I. AM. A. 2L. I was not talking about this year's stats, but last year's. Can you not read?

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blurbz
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Re: U. of Illinois Law suspends Dean of Admissions

Postby blurbz » Thu Sep 22, 2011 7:07 pm

nucky thompson wrote:yo nancy - keep smoking the reefer. you can maintain whatever you want but that does not make it true. Just because your huge group of friends all tell you they scored a 167 does not mean your huge group of friends is representative of your class - evidenced by the true median at 163. People were bashing you for using anecdotal evidence because you were bashing/getting ultra defensive when people used similar logical flaws to support their assertions. just dial it down



The "True" median of Nancy's (and my) class is 167 until the school says otherwise. As has been pointed out, doing the math shouldn't be terribly difficult so the fact that they have yet to say that our 2L class's numbers were fudged seems to indicate that they were not.

Of course, if they're waiting to release a long report that includes a lot of things....It could happen.

And before you all start calling me a delusional asshat, read my other posts on this thread: I'm not happy and I find it hard to believe that it was only this year's numbers that were exaggerated. That being said, because the math should be easy, the longer it takes the school to tell me that the numbers for my class are inacurate, the more I'm willing to believe that they are right.
Last edited by blurbz on Thu Sep 22, 2011 7:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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prezidentv8
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Re: U. of Illinois Law suspends Dean of Admissions

Postby prezidentv8 » Thu Sep 22, 2011 7:08 pm

NancyBotwin wrote:
nucky thompson wrote:yo nancy - keep smoking the reefer. you can maintain whatever you want but that does not make it true. Just because your huge group of friends all tell you they scored a 167 does not mean your huge group of friends is representative of your class - evidenced by the true median at 163. People were bashing you for using anecdotal evidence because you were bashing/getting ultra defensive when people used similar logical flaws to support their assertions. just dial it down

I. AM. A. 2L. I was not talking about this year's stats, but last year's. Can you not read?


PWN

--ImageRemoved--

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Sapientia
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Re: U. of Illinois Law suspends Dean of Admissions

Postby Sapientia » Thu Sep 22, 2011 7:42 pm

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Last edited by Sapientia on Wed Dec 07, 2011 9:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

MrAnon
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Re: U. of Illinois Law suspends Dean of Admissions

Postby MrAnon » Thu Sep 22, 2011 7:58 pm

To those trying to hide behind the distinction between median and average, get over it: the LSAT scores at Illinois are a lot lower than advertised. Closer to Loyola Chicago than to Notre Dame.

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soj
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Re: U. of Illinois Law suspends Dean of Admissions

Postby soj » Thu Sep 22, 2011 8:04 pm

MrAnon wrote:To those trying to hide behind the distinction between median and average, get over it: the LSAT scores at Illinois are a lot lower than advertised. Closer to Loyola Chicago than to Notre Dame.

:lol: @ you calling people out for hiding behind a distinction you failed to see. I don't think anyone denies LSAT scores for the class of 2014 are a lot lower. There's still a bit of uncertainty with the other classes.

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JusticeHarlan
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Re: U. of Illinois Law suspends Dean of Admissions

Postby JusticeHarlan » Thu Sep 22, 2011 8:05 pm

MrAnon wrote:To those trying to hide behind the distinction between median and average, get over it: the LSAT scores at Illinois are a lot lower than advertised. Closer to Loyola Chicago than to Notre Dame.

Not a single person is trying to "hide" behind it.

I think the only interesting point was that you failed to grasp a concept that elementary school children understand.

09042014
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Re: U. of Illinois Law suspends Dean of Admissions

Postby 09042014 » Thu Sep 22, 2011 8:06 pm

soj wrote:
MrAnon wrote:To those trying to hide behind the distinction between median and average, get over it: the LSAT scores at Illinois are a lot lower than advertised. Closer to Loyola Chicago than to Notre Dame.

:lol: @ you calling people out for hiding behind a distinction you failed to see. I don't think anyone denies LSAT scores for the class of 2014 are a lot lower. There's still a bit of uncertainty with the other classes.


Median is a lot lower, but I bet the distribution is fairly similar to Notre Dame.

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soj
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Re: U. of Illinois Law suspends Dean of Admissions

Postby soj » Thu Sep 22, 2011 8:07 pm

Desert Fox wrote:
soj wrote:
MrAnon wrote:To those trying to hide behind the distinction between median and average, get over it: the LSAT scores at Illinois are a lot lower than advertised. Closer to Loyola Chicago than to Notre Dame.

:lol: @ you calling people out for hiding behind a distinction you failed to see. I don't think anyone denies LSAT scores for the class of 2014 are a lot lower. There's still a bit of uncertainty with the other classes.


Median is a lot lower, but I bet the distribution is fairly similar to Notre Dame.

That's true too. I meant "the median LSAT score for the class of 2014 is lower"; everything else is uncertain.

09042014
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Re: U. of Illinois Law suspends Dean of Admissions

Postby 09042014 » Thu Sep 22, 2011 8:38 pm

Many schools who use splitters stretch statistics to the limit. Looks like Illinois tried to reach too far. Fucked up, then tried to cover up.

nucky thompson
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Re: U. of Illinois Law suspends Dean of Admissions

Postby nucky thompson » Thu Sep 22, 2011 10:16 pm

It is good business for splitters and all, but do schools think they are getting the most quality applicants by gaming the system? Not taking a stance, but what do you all think? Does the importance of medians etc. in making admissions decisions hurt schools in the long run?

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birdlaw117
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Re: U. of Illinois Law suspends Dean of Admissions

Postby birdlaw117 » Thu Sep 22, 2011 10:53 pm

Nightrunner wrote:
nucky thompson wrote:It is good business for splitters and all, but do schools think they are getting the most quality applicants by gaming the system? Not taking a stance, but what do you all think? Does the importance of medians etc. in making admissions decisions hurt schools in the long run?

I realize that this is slightly tangential, but it is close enough, so I'll bite: no. Having a balanced class is good for students. Some grade-A strivers and some slackers with above-curve potential make for a better dynamic than a group of cookie cutter students would be.

I would tend to agree with this. I think any type of diversity is nice for a student body, and that includes this. This kind of diversity would probably mostly include different types of studying styles and work ethic, plus personality differences and such.

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BackToTheOldHouse
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Re: U. of Illinois Law suspends Dean of Admissions

Postby BackToTheOldHouse » Thu Sep 22, 2011 11:36 pm

birdlaw117 wrote:
Nightrunner wrote:
nucky thompson wrote:It is good business for splitters and all, but do schools think they are getting the most quality applicants by gaming the system? Not taking a stance, but what do you all think? Does the importance of medians etc. in making admissions decisions hurt schools in the long run?

I realize that this is slightly tangential, but it is close enough, so I'll bite: no. Having a balanced class is good for students. Some grade-A strivers and some slackers with above-curve potential make for a better dynamic than a group of cookie cutter students would be.

I would tend to agree with this. I think any type of diversity is nice for a student body, and that includes this. This kind of diversity would probably mostly include different types of studying styles and work ethic, plus personality differences and such.

Boalt. :mrgreen:

nucky thompson
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Re: U. of Illinois Law suspends Dean of Admissions

Postby nucky thompson » Thu Sep 22, 2011 11:37 pm

I do think I would agree - but this also assumes there would not be such diversity with more balanced GPA/LSAT students than with one high one low

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birdlaw117
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Re: U. of Illinois Law suspends Dean of Admissions

Postby birdlaw117 » Thu Sep 22, 2011 11:38 pm

BackToTheOldHouse wrote:
birdlaw117 wrote:
Nightrunner wrote:
nucky thompson wrote:It is good business for splitters and all, but do schools think they are getting the most quality applicants by gaming the system? Not taking a stance, but what do you all think? Does the importance of medians etc. in making admissions decisions hurt schools in the long run?

I realize that this is slightly tangential, but it is close enough, so I'll bite: no. Having a balanced class is good for students. Some grade-A strivers and some slackers with above-curve potential make for a better dynamic than a group of cookie cutter students would be.

I would tend to agree with this. I think any type of diversity is nice for a student body, and that includes this. This kind of diversity would probably mostly include different types of studying styles and work ethic, plus personality differences and such.

Boalt. :mrgreen:

Ok, so maybe it's not always good...

HyeMart
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Re: U. of Illinois Law suspends Dean of Admissions

Postby HyeMart » Thu Sep 22, 2011 11:58 pm

so, do upper student hate the 1l's or what :lol:

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BackToTheOldHouse
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Re: U. of Illinois Law suspends Dean of Admissions

Postby BackToTheOldHouse » Fri Sep 23, 2011 12:08 am

HyeMart wrote:so, do upper student hate the 1l's or what :lol:

wut?

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Kilpatrick
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Re: U. of Illinois Law suspends Dean of Admissions

Postby Kilpatrick » Fri Sep 23, 2011 7:47 am

HyeMart wrote:so, do upper student hate the 1l's or what :lol:


I think we just feel sorry for them. It's not their fault.

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Cornelius
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Re: U. of Illinois Law suspends Dean of Admissions

Postby Cornelius » Fri Sep 23, 2011 10:35 am

NancyBotwin wrote:For the people saying who the fuck talks about LSAT scores - it has sort of been a hot topic around the school lately, at least with people I know. I wonder why.

And holy fucking shit people need to calm down about the fact that I used anecdotal evidence. Get over yourselves, you're not all statistics geniuses, otherwise you wouldn't be in law school.

I am, actually, a statistics genius, and work with statistics at my job on a daily basis. Some of us have plans to go to law school for reasons other than "why did I get a philosophy degree?"

NancyBotwin wrote:Whatever. I still maintain that it is isolated to this year, and to only admissions stats and not employment stats.

I thought people on here readily accepted that all schools not named HYS mess with their employment stats.

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romothesavior
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Re: U. of Illinois Law suspends Dean of Admissions

Postby romothesavior » Fri Sep 23, 2011 11:42 am

Cornelius wrote:
NancyBotwin wrote:Whatever. I still maintain that it is isolated to this year, and to only admissions stats and not employment stats.

I thought people on here readily accepted that all schools not named HYS mess with their employment stats.

+1. What do employment stats have to do with anything?

CanadianWolf
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Re: U. of Illinois Law suspends Dean of Admissions

Postby CanadianWolf » Fri Sep 23, 2011 1:33 pm

Employment prospects & past results are typically a major concern when selecting among law schools. Most would like to enjoy a return on their investment in law school.

P.S. Don't employment figures factor into each law school's US News rank ?

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crumpetsandtea
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Re: U. of Illinois Law suspends Dean of Admissions

Postby crumpetsandtea » Fri Sep 23, 2011 1:42 pm

Cornelius wrote:I am, actually, a statistics genius

:lol: :lol: :lol: Seriously, bro? GTFOver yourself.

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masochist
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Re: U. of Illinois Law suspends Dean of Admissions

Postby masochist » Fri Sep 23, 2011 2:30 pm

crumpetsandtea wrote:
Cornelius wrote:I am, actually, a statistics genius

:lol: :lol: :lol: Seriously, bro? GTFOver yourself.


Worst. Pick-up line. Ever!

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Cornelius
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Re: U. of Illinois Law suspends Dean of Admissions

Postby Cornelius » Fri Sep 23, 2011 2:40 pm

crumpetsandtea wrote:
Cornelius wrote:I am, actually, a statistics genius

:lol: :lol: :lol: Seriously, bro? GTFOver yourself.

The point was that NancyBotwin's comment was ludicrous, because anyone with even a basic, high school level understanding of statistics could see her "evidence" was garbage. Also, again, not everyone is going to law school because they made poor choices and got a useless undergrad degree.




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