U. of Illinois Law suspends Dean of Admissions

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CanadianWolf
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Re: U. of Illinois Law suspends Dean of Admissions

Postby CanadianWolf » Wed Sep 21, 2011 8:55 pm

I forget how young most posters are on this website. I guess young law students tend to be a bit on the serious side.

comet_halley
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Re: U. of Illinois Law suspends Dean of Admissions

Postby comet_halley » Wed Sep 21, 2011 9:18 pm

CanadianWolf wrote:Is it common to suspend someone for a "data entry mistake" ?

Is it possible to be a "data entry mistake"?

CanadianWolf
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Re: U. of Illinois Law suspends Dean of Admissions

Postby CanadianWolf » Wed Sep 21, 2011 9:19 pm

Anything is possible.

comet_halley
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Re: U. of Illinois Law suspends Dean of Admissions

Postby comet_halley » Wed Sep 21, 2011 9:29 pm

CanadianWolf wrote:Anything is possible.

Nothing is impossible!

09042014
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Re: U. of Illinois Law suspends Dean of Admissions

Postby 09042014 » Wed Sep 21, 2011 9:45 pm

It's academic administration. Mistakes are prob less common than doing it right. I've seen data entry mistakes that cost companies millions.

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JCougar
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Re: U. of Illinois Law suspends Dean of Admissions

Postby JCougar » Wed Sep 21, 2011 9:58 pm

Desert Fox wrote:It's academic administration. Mistakes are prob less common than doing it right. I've seen data entry mistakes that cost companies millions.


Didn't NASA fuck something major up by calculating in centimeters instead of inches?

A screw up is possible, but it's hard to imagine not catching it for weeks while being up on the website and passed around the office, etc.

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Sapientia
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Re: U. of Illinois Law suspends Dean of Admissions

Postby Sapientia » Wed Sep 21, 2011 10:53 pm

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Last edited by Sapientia on Wed Dec 07, 2011 10:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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romothesavior
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Re: U. of Illinois Law suspends Dean of Admissions

Postby romothesavior » Thu Sep 22, 2011 1:20 am

When people say it could have been a simple data entry mistake, they just be suggesting that the mistake happened in the spring and it persisted alllllll summer long without anyone noticing. Deans are VERY conscious of their medians. It wasn't like Pless just looked at his spreadsheet one day in August and was like, "168? Neato!" and put it in the admissions materials. He knew his medians all summer long. Deans check that shit religiously. He must have known all along that he was way low this year. And how can a data entry mistake explain both medians being wrong?

I was all in the wait and see group when this story broke because of my respect for Pless, but this reeks to high heaven. I've yet to hear a plausible explanation for how this could be an unintentional error. It sure smacks of fraudulent behavior to me.

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Tanicius
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Re: U. of Illinois Law suspends Dean of Admissions

Postby Tanicius » Thu Sep 22, 2011 2:49 am

romothesavior wrote:I was all in the wait and see group when this story broke because of my respect for Pless, but this reeks to high heaven. I've yet to hear a plausible explanation for how this could be an unintentional error. It sure smacks of fraudulent behavior to me.


Yeah, pretty much. :|

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PDaddy
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Re: U. of Illinois Law suspends Dean of Admissions

Postby PDaddy » Thu Sep 22, 2011 3:20 am

Sapientia wrote:It doesn't seem like it's the result of a data entry mistake. The investigation began because someone called in a tip to the ethics office. I'm not sure why someone would do that unless they had reason to believe that some shady shit was going on.


NancyBotwin wrote:
CanadianWolf wrote:Seems a bit far fetched based on the actions taken so far. Especially since it's been over ten days at this point, but anything is possible.

P.S. Maybe the ABA should offer all law schools an amnesty period (similiar to the IRS) to correct misreporting over the last few years.


The incorrect data was not actually reported to the ABA. Smith said reporting to the ABA usually occurs in late October, so the correct information will be what is reported to them.


Last year's obviously false data, which WAS reported to the ABA, is nearly identical to this years data, and the new data has now been established as phony/inflated. It appears that UIUC has been doing the Villanova thing. You guys are forgetting something: the name is University of "ILLINOIS", as in one of the most corrupt states in the union. This stuff was no accident. But I can guess what admins at other schools are doing right now...cleaning up their messes and figuring out how they can spin their self-reports to the ABA. There will be more.

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PDaddy
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Re: U. of Illinois Law suspends Dean of Admissions

Postby PDaddy » Thu Sep 22, 2011 3:30 am

romothesavior wrote:When people say it could have been a simple data entry mistake, they just be suggesting...


I stopped reading your post at "they just be..."

Please tell me it's a joke used for effect, and that you really did learn to read and write in high school and UG.

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stratocophic
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Re: U. of Illinois Law suspends Dean of Admissions

Postby stratocophic » Thu Sep 22, 2011 4:21 am

Sincerely hoping that romo discovers this tomorrow and replies with his customary style and aplomb

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NancyBotwin
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Re: U. of Illinois Law suspends Dean of Admissions

Postby NancyBotwin » Thu Sep 22, 2011 10:21 am

PDaddy wrote:Last year's obviously false data

Considering that most of the people I know in my class did, in fact, score above a 167 (myself included) ... yeah, it's obviously false. :roll:

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Cornelius
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Re: U. of Illinois Law suspends Dean of Admissions

Postby Cornelius » Thu Sep 22, 2011 10:29 am

NancyBotwin wrote:
PDaddy wrote:Last year's obviously false data

Considering that most of the people I know in my class did, in fact, score above a 167 (myself included) ... yeah, it's obviously false. :roll:

Sample size & anecdotal evidence. Super convincing.

romothesavior wrote:When people say it could have been a simple data entry mistake, they just be suggesting that the mistake happened in the spring and it persisted alllllll summer long without anyone noticing. Deans are VERY conscious of their medians. It wasn't like Pless just looked at his spreadsheet one day in August and was like, "168? Neato!" and put it in the admissions materials. He knew his medians all summer long. Deans check that shit religiously. He must have known all along that he was way low this year. And how can a data entry mistake explain both medians being wrong?

I was all in the wait and see group when this story broke because of my respect for Pless, but this reeks to high heaven. I've yet to hear a plausible explanation for how this could be an unintentional error. It sure smacks of fraudulent behavior to me.

+1. The people still holding on and claiming it could be a mistake are bordering on delusionally optimistic.

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NancyBotwin
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Re: U. of Illinois Law suspends Dean of Admissions

Postby NancyBotwin » Thu Sep 22, 2011 10:33 am

Quite a few people in my group of friends. Unless we've all somehow self-selected to hanging out with the only other people above 167, and there are no others in our class, then that would suggest that a large portion of the class is above 167.

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Cornelius
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Re: U. of Illinois Law suspends Dean of Admissions

Postby Cornelius » Thu Sep 22, 2011 10:36 am

NancyBotwin wrote:Quite a few people in my group of friends. Unless we've all somehow self-selected to hanging out with the only other people above 167, and there are no others in our class, then that would suggest that a large portion of the class is above 167.

The logic here with regard to statistics and self-reported data makes me weep.

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NancyBotwin
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Re: U. of Illinois Law suspends Dean of Admissions

Postby NancyBotwin » Thu Sep 22, 2011 10:39 am

Cornelius wrote:
NancyBotwin wrote:Quite a few people in my group of friends. Unless we've all somehow self-selected to hanging out with the only other people above 167, and there are no others in our class, then that would suggest that a large portion of the class is above 167.

The logic here with regard to statistics makes me weep.


Dude, I know it's anecdotal evidence and that the sample size is small. Doesn't make the facts any less true. Our class is not that much larger than my group of friends. What are the odds of me knowing that many people above 167 and yet the 167 median being completely off?

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Mickey Quicknumbers
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Re: U. of Illinois Law suspends Dean of Admissions

Postby Mickey Quicknumbers » Thu Sep 22, 2011 10:39 am

Also, Let's not forget that it is in fact still PDaddy posting the posts that PDaddy posts.

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stratocophic
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Re: U. of Illinois Law suspends Dean of Admissions

Postby stratocophic » Thu Sep 22, 2011 10:53 am

Mickey Quicknumbers wrote:Also, Let's not forget that it is in fact still PDaddy posting the posts that PDaddy posts.
Thank you. I was wondering if I was taking crazy pills or if he had suddenly become an upstanding member of the TLS community and I had somehow missed it.

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romothesavior
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Re: U. of Illinois Law suspends Dean of Admissions

Postby romothesavior » Thu Sep 22, 2011 11:04 am

PDaddy wrote:
romothesavior wrote:When people say it could have been a simple data entry mistake, they just be suggesting...


I stopped reading your post at "they just be..."

Please tell me it's a joke used for effect, and that you really did learn to read and write in high school and UG.

Well that's usually more than I read of your posts. I typically stop reading as soon as I realize you wrote it.

I apologize that I would make such a blatant and offensive typographical error on my phone while posting one of my 11,000+ posts.

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NancyBotwin
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Re: U. of Illinois Law suspends Dean of Admissions

Postby NancyBotwin » Thu Sep 22, 2011 11:07 am

romothesavior wrote:When people say it could have been a simple data entry mistake, they just be suggesting that the mistake happened in the spring and it persisted alllllll summer long without anyone noticing. Deans are VERY conscious of their medians. It wasn't like Pless just looked at his spreadsheet one day in August and was like, "168? Neato!" and put it in the admissions materials. He knew his medians all summer long. Deans check that shit religiously. He must have known all along that he was way low this year. And how can a data entry mistake explain both medians being wrong?


Except this is suggesting that the mistake wasn't in the spreadsheet from the beginning. Formula error maybe? And one that applied to both the GPA and LSAT because of a copy/paste thing?

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romothesavior
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Re: U. of Illinois Law suspends Dean of Admissions

Postby romothesavior » Thu Sep 22, 2011 11:14 am

NancyBotwin wrote:
romothesavior wrote:When people say it could have been a simple data entry mistake, they just be suggesting that the mistake happened in the spring and it persisted alllllll summer long without anyone noticing. Deans are VERY conscious of their medians. It wasn't like Pless just looked at his spreadsheet one day in August and was like, "168? Neato!" and put it in the admissions materials. He knew his medians all summer long. Deans check that shit religiously. He must have known all along that he was way low this year. And how can a data entry mistake explain both medians being wrong?\


Except this is suggesting that the mistake wasn't in the spreadsheet from the beginning. Formula error maybe? And one that applied to both the GPA and LSAT because of a copy/paste thing?

Is it possible? Yeah, I guess it is possible. But plausible? Not at all. We aren't talking about complicated formulas here. We're talking about basic high school (junior high?) math. Working with medians isn't difficult, and these numbers are double and triple-checked and worked with every day. A former admissions dean told me (in a conversation about this scandal) that by the end of the summer, he would check the medians every single day just to be sure nothing changed. Any time you admit someone or someone tells you they're withdrawing, you check them. I just find it completely implausible that you could really go all summer with the wrong LSAT score by a whole five points and not realize it, and even more implausible that your GPA would be off too.

I hope I'm wrong. I love the University of Illinois and I really enjoyed my interactions with Pless.

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YourCaptain
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Re: U. of Illinois Law suspends Dean of Admissions

Postby YourCaptain » Thu Sep 22, 2011 11:20 am

I am genuinely surprised at the level of indignity people are expressing in defense of Dean Pless.

Sure, he was helpful with his posts relating to UIUC admissions - it is in his best interest to do so. His job is to entice applications and put the school in the best possible light - putting forth a public profile of the school with its admissions officer being a helpful and open individual will make most prospective applicants have a very favorable view of the school. His job is not to be your friend - his actions, helpful as they were, were motivated by self-interest, not out of altruism.

His culpability shouldn't just be assumed, but don't mistake his intentions for a defense of character.

CanadianWolf
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Re: U. of Illinois Law suspends Dean of Admissions

Postby CanadianWolf » Thu Sep 22, 2011 11:21 am

I agree with romothesavior. Medians tend to be checked & rechecked when evaluating waitlisted applicants for an available spot in the class.

The main concerns, from my perspective, are whether misreporting numbers extended to prior years & to other data--such as employment figures.

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romothesavior
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Re: U. of Illinois Law suspends Dean of Admissions

Postby romothesavior » Thu Sep 22, 2011 11:24 am

YourCaptain wrote:I am genuinely surprised at the level of indignity people are expressing in defense of Dean Pless.

Eh... I think it goes far beyond his TLS postings though. People ITT know him personally, they like him, and the respect him. The UIUC students all speak very highly of him, and they know him better than any of us. I only met him once, but I communicated with him a great deal and was very, very impressed by all of my interactions with him. I also know he was respected by some of his peers in law school administration. Until this incident, I hadn't really heard of anyone say anything negative about him. So that's why I hope this turns out well for him, and hope that he is not culpable. I imagine others feel the same.




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