U. of Illinois Law suspends Dean of Admissions

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tennisking88
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Re: U. of Illinois Law suspends Dean of Admissions

Postby tennisking88 » Mon Sep 19, 2011 11:42 pm

bouakedojo wrote:I guess the ABA only checks the records for LSATs and GPAs for law schools every seven years as part of accreditation.

http://www.law.com/jsp/tx/PubArticleTX. ... 2514909433


That's retarted

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JamMasterJ
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Re: U. of Illinois Law suspends Dean of Admissions

Postby JamMasterJ » Mon Sep 19, 2011 11:49 pm

I've missed the past 10 pages, so to recap: Illinois' LSAT median is actually 163 and GPA median is 3.7? How did I get denied?

Anything else I'm missing?

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Tanicius
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Re: U. of Illinois Law suspends Dean of Admissions

Postby Tanicius » Mon Sep 19, 2011 11:52 pm

JamMasterJ wrote:I've missed the past 10 pages, so to recap: Illinois' LSAT median is actually 163 and GPA median is 3.7? How did I get denied?

Anything else I'm missing?



ಠ_ಠ Just how many people did you chop up and dump in that marsh?

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JamMasterJ
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Re: U. of Illinois Law suspends Dean of Admissions

Postby JamMasterJ » Mon Sep 19, 2011 11:54 pm

Tanicius wrote:
JamMasterJ wrote:I've missed the past 10 pages, so to recap: Illinois' LSAT median is actually 163 and GPA median is 3.7? How did I get denied?

Anything else I'm missing?



ಠ_ಠ Just how many people did you chop up and dump in that marsh?

I saw a guy with 169/3.67 got dinged too? That's insane.

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Helmholtz
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Re: U. of Illinois Law suspends Dean of Admissions

Postby Helmholtz » Mon Sep 19, 2011 11:57 pm

JamMasterJ wrote:I've missed the past 10 pages, so to recap: Illinois' LSAT median is actually 163 and GPA median is 3.7? How did I get denied?

Anything else I'm missing?


Damn, dude. You essentially got denied at the State of Illinois's less prestigious public-school version of Baylor Law.

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JamMasterJ
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Re: U. of Illinois Law suspends Dean of Admissions

Postby JamMasterJ » Mon Sep 19, 2011 11:58 pm

Helmholtz wrote:
JamMasterJ wrote:I've missed the past 10 pages, so to recap: Illinois' LSAT median is actually 163 and GPA median is 3.7? How did I get denied?

Anything else I'm missing?


Damn, dude. You essentially got denied at the State of Illinois's less-prestigious public-school version of Baylor Law.

Clearly I'm missing something

flyingbamboo
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Re: U. of Illinois Law suspends Dean of Admissions

Postby flyingbamboo » Tue Sep 20, 2011 12:13 am

Does it feed people's ego to ridicule the Illinois class of 2014 (or any other class) because of an action that is not within their realm of control? Your condescending remarks do not make you better lawyers. Pray that your law schools are not caught in such shameful conduct rather than worrying about Illinois.

Sorry you weren't accepted by Illinois even though your score & GPA were good. I didn't get accepted by Harvard even though I had above median SAT and GPA. Let's whine and complain about how awesome we are and how we're too good for these schools.

In all seriousness, it's hard to speculate how Illinois will come out of this investigation and where the blame will be placed. We're all anxiously waiting to find out.
Last edited by flyingbamboo on Tue Sep 20, 2011 12:14 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Helmholtz
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Re: U. of Illinois Law suspends Dean of Admissions

Postby Helmholtz » Tue Sep 20, 2011 12:13 am

flyingbamboo wrote:Does it feed people's ego to ridicule the Illinois class of 2014 (or any other class) because of an action that is not within their realm of control? Your condescending remarks do not make you better lawyers. Pray that your law schools are not caught in such shameful conduct rather than worrying about Illinois.

Sorry you weren't accepted by Illinois even though your score & GPA were good. I didn't get accepted by Harvard even though I had above median SAT and GPA. Let's whine and complain about how awesome we are and how we're too good for these schools.


wat

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stratocophic
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Re: U. of Illinois Law suspends Dean of Admissions

Postby stratocophic » Tue Sep 20, 2011 12:15 am

Helmholtz wrote:
flyingbamboo wrote:Does it feed people's ego to ridicule the Illinois class of 2014 (or any other class) because of an action that is not within their realm of control? Your condescending remarks do not make you better lawyers. Pray that your law schools are not caught in such shameful conduct rather than worrying about Illinois.

Sorry you weren't accepted by Illinois even though your score & GPA were good. I didn't get accepted by Harvard even though I had above median SAT and GPA. Let's whine and complain about how awesome we are and how we're too good for these schools.


wat
TCQ

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bjsesq
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Re: U. of Illinois Law suspends Dean of Admissions

Postby bjsesq » Tue Sep 20, 2011 12:16 am

flyingbamboo wrote:Does it feed people's ego to ridicule the Illinois class of 2014 (or any other class) because of an action that is not within their realm of control? Your condescending remarks do not make you better lawyers. Pray that your law schools are not caught in such shameful conduct rather than worrying about Illinois.

Sorry you weren't accepted by Illinois even though your score & GPA were good. I didn't get accepted by Harvard even though I had above median SAT and GPA. Let's whine and complain about how awesome we are and how we're too good for these schools.

In all seriousness, it's hard to speculate how Illinois will come out of this investigation and where the blame will be placed. We're all anxiously waiting to find out.


The guy who has been fighting to defend your school politely requests that you stop fucking helping. kthxbai

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Indifferent
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Re: U. of Illinois Law suspends Dean of Admissions

Postby Indifferent » Tue Sep 20, 2011 12:28 am

flyingbamboo wrote:Sorry you weren't accepted by Illinois even though your score & GPA were good. I didn't get accepted by Harvard even though I had above median SAT and GPA. Let's whine and complain about how awesome we are and how we're too good for these schools.

You came here to brag about being rejected by Harvard?

071816
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Re: U. of Illinois Law suspends Dean of Admissions

Postby 071816 » Tue Sep 20, 2011 12:36 am

flyingbamboo wrote:I didn't get accepted by Harvard even though I had above median SAT and GPA. Let's whine and complain about how awesome we are and how we're too good for these schools.


Image

flyingbamboo
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Re: U. of Illinois Law suspends Dean of Admissions

Postby flyingbamboo » Tue Sep 20, 2011 12:39 am

Guys. The second statement was purely sarcasm referencing all the stupid "I can't believe I got rejected from this school even though they have such low medians" comments.

My point is please try to be a bit sensitive to the people who are students at Illinois. I understand the desire to speculate on what's going on, but it's not necessary to make demoralizing comments in the process. So one law student to another, just try to be considerate in your remarks. I'm not trying to be defensive in any way. Have a good night.

dreakol
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Re: U. of Illinois Law suspends Dean of Admissions

Postby dreakol » Tue Sep 20, 2011 1:04 am

chimp wrote:
flyingbamboo wrote:I didn't get accepted by Harvard even though I had above median SAT and GPA. Let's whine and complain about how awesome we are and how we're too good for these schools.


Image



i've never seen this before

tyty

Sandro
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Re: U. of Illinois Law suspends Dean of Admissions

Postby Sandro » Tue Sep 20, 2011 1:07 am

You either believe they've been fudging for a while, or that some freak statistical error occurred with regards to the % of accepted students who actually matriculated. If a school misses their mark they go down 1, 2 , MAYBE 3 points in their LSAT.... 5 points ? With a reduced class size ? And other schools in worse off positions are increasing their medians ? errrrrr ....

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romothesavior
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Re: U. of Illinois Law suspends Dean of Admissions

Postby romothesavior » Tue Sep 20, 2011 1:10 am

Sandro wrote:You either believe they've been fudging for a while, or that some freak statistical error occurred with regards to the % of accepted students who actually matriculated. If a school misses their mark they go down 1, 2 , MAYBE 3 points in their LSAT.... 5 points ? With a reduced class size ? And other schools in worse off positions are increasing their medians ? errrrrr ....

Or 3, and most likely, they screwed up big time with this year's class, and Pless was in a lose-lose situation (fudge the states and try to get away with it, or take the heat for dropping the class off the map).

Either way, not good. Either the school has been lying for years, or the admissions office just royally screwed up with this year's incoming class and didn't get a very good class. I agree, a one or two point drop would be a rough admissions year. 5?? That's simply unheard of.

shoeshine
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Re: U. of Illinois Law suspends Dean of Admissions

Postby shoeshine » Tue Sep 20, 2011 1:18 am

They must have been lying for years. This drop was too significant for this to be the first time. I think there are others ranked in that same area that may be fudging numbers as well but we will never know.

Maybe all the top schools are fudging their medians?

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birdlaw117
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Re: U. of Illinois Law suspends Dean of Admissions

Postby birdlaw117 » Tue Sep 20, 2011 1:22 am

DerrickRose wrote:The incentive to cheat is massive compared to the possible penalties. It's not altogether unlike the NCAA in that way.

I'm sorry, but the given the poster and this comment... awesome.

On a related note, I really feel for the Illinois 1Ls. With the limited info we have, it really looks bad and like it may have been going on previously. However, this really is a situation where lies will become reality in a short period of time, so I don't think it could have been going on for a long time, or even 4 or 5 years. I'm not going to rush to judgment here. I really hope this doesn't end up hurting the students.

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JCougar
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Re: U. of Illinois Law suspends Dean of Admissions

Postby JCougar » Tue Sep 20, 2011 1:29 am

shoeshine wrote:They must have been lying for years. This drop was too significant for this to be the first time. I think there are others ranked in that same area that may be fudging numbers as well but we will never know.

Maybe all the top schools are fudging their medians?


I think it would be hard for an entire admissions office to keep it a secret for an extended period of time. Which was why this got exposed.

I doubt a lot of schools, as previously mentioned, have the balls to flat out lie. Finessing employment numbers is one thing. This is totally different.

I mean, it's not like the ABA regulates this stuff at all (funny how those that make up the regulatory profession are so bad at regulating their own), so I could be totally wrong.

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D. H2Oman
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Re: U. of Illinois Law suspends Dean of Admissions

Postby D. H2Oman » Tue Sep 20, 2011 1:32 am

Am I the only one that always thought Pless was full of crap with most of his answers?


Good riddance.
Last edited by D. H2Oman on Tue Sep 20, 2011 1:33 am, edited 1 time in total.

Sandro
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Re: U. of Illinois Law suspends Dean of Admissions

Postby Sandro » Tue Sep 20, 2011 1:33 am

romothesavior wrote:
Sandro wrote:You either believe they've been fudging for a while, or that some freak statistical error occurred with regards to the % of accepted students who actually matriculated. If a school misses their mark they go down 1, 2 , MAYBE 3 points in their LSAT.... 5 points ? With a reduced class size ? And other schools in worse off positions are increasing their medians ? errrrrr ....

Or 3, and most likely, they screwed up big time with this year's class, and Pless was in a lose-lose situation (fudge the states and try to get away with it, or take the heat for dropping the class off the map).

Either way, not good. Either the school has been lying for years, or the admissions office just royally screwed up with this year's incoming class and didn't get a very good class. I agree, a one or two point drop would be a rough admissions year. 5?? That's simply unheard of.


With rolling admissions isnt it really hard to just be completely blindsided like this ? I would be willing to bet the matriculation rates for certain subsets of applicants dont change very much over time. There was no outside event like a rankings drop, scandal (luls), or mishap.

If you believe the lie that schools do holistic application reviews it really conflicts with IUC's admission policy midway through the cycle. Seems too convenient that they drew the line on a good splitter (168+) and a bad splitter (167) right at the line which would bump their median. IUC is clearly very concerned about its medians from the way they accepted people. You cannot just say "well they didnt get enough high lsat people and had to let in half a class with a 163 or below." The difference between a 166 and a 168 is paltry - why then were they rejecting 166 splitters in april when by then it had to be apparent something wasnt going right with their medians.

I need to stop, I find this stuff way too interesting.

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chrisbru
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Re: U. of Illinois Law suspends Dean of Admissions

Postby chrisbru » Tue Sep 20, 2011 1:34 am

I'd like to think that they just wildly erred in their admissions process instead of this being a longstanding thing as well. However, I also agree that it would be VERY hard to drop 4 points from last year's median (last year was 167, right?) just because they didn't get the yield they thought they'd get from the 168+'s. Maybe they wait listed a lot of super-splitters like they did to me, hoping they could lure them off the wait list with free'd up scholarship money from better GPA/LSAT combo candidates but had a ton decide to turn down the wait list for initial acceptances to peer schools. It just seems unlikely though.

Also, can anyone offer a suggestion that if they were trying to cover up a botched admissions cycle for this year, why they would choose to RAISE the medians instead of keeping them standard? Or at least something to call less attention like a same LSAT/.03 or so increase in GPA?

Sandro
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Re: U. of Illinois Law suspends Dean of Admissions

Postby Sandro » Tue Sep 20, 2011 1:37 am

chrisbru wrote:I'd like to think that they just wildly erred in their admissions process instead of this being a longstanding thing as well. However, I also agree that it would be VERY hard to drop 4 points from last year's median (last year was 167, right?) just because they didn't get the yield they thought they'd get from the 168+'s. Maybe they wait listed a lot of super-splitters like they did to me, hoping they could lure them off the wait list with free'd up scholarship money from better GPA/LSAT combo candidates but had a ton decide to turn down the wait list for initial acceptances to peer schools. It just seems unlikely though.

Also, can anyone offer a suggestion that if they were trying to cover up a botched admissions cycle for this year, why they would choose to RAISE the medians instead of keeping them standard? Or at least something to call less attention like a same LSAT/.03 or so increase in GPA?


Given their choice for 168+ it seems very likely that was their target and when they failed they chose to lie about the numbers. Or they have been lying all along. 4 point drops dont happen to schools in the top 25. Maybe Barry or Nova Southeastern. Probably not even them.

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chrisbru
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Re: U. of Illinois Law suspends Dean of Admissions

Postby chrisbru » Tue Sep 20, 2011 1:43 am

Sandro wrote:
Given their choice for 168+ it seems very likely that was their target and when they failed they chose to lie about the numbers. Or they have been lying all along. 4 point drops dont happen to schools in the top 25. Maybe Barry or Nova Southeastern. Probably not even them.


It just seems like poor form to me to boast a 1-point increase in your LSAT median as a cover up if, in fact, it really dropped by 4 points. Which is why I still see multi-year fudging as a likely (albeit sad) explanation.

Sandro
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Re: U. of Illinois Law suspends Dean of Admissions

Postby Sandro » Tue Sep 20, 2011 1:53 am

chrisbru wrote:
Sandro wrote:
Given their choice for 168+ it seems very likely that was their target and when they failed they chose to lie about the numbers. Or they have been lying all along. 4 point drops dont happen to schools in the top 25. Maybe Barry or Nova Southeastern. Probably not even them.


It just seems like poor form to me to boast a 1-point increase in your LSAT median as a cover up if, in fact, it really dropped by 4 points. Which is why I still see multi-year fudging as a likely (albeit sad) explanation.


Because with the almost complete lack of regulation they could just say "oh well these XX people dont count for our official numbers" and hope nobody asks for detailed audit. Am i rite ? Or wouldnt LSAC be able to find this out almost instantly?




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