U. of Illinois Law suspends Dean of Admissions

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Samara
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Re: U. of Illinois Law suspends Dean of Admissions

Postby Samara » Mon Sep 19, 2011 5:48 pm

muaythaifighter wrote:i can't believe ppl think pless is a honest man based on the fact that he posts here with advice. with the facts so far, it seems like he has lied which he has done in the past with letting applicants in in exchange for jobs from corrupted people.

That wasn't him. Get your facts straight.

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dresden doll
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Re: U. of Illinois Law suspends Dean of Admissions

Postby dresden doll » Mon Sep 19, 2011 5:49 pm

muaythaifighter wrote:i can't believe ppl think pless is a honest man based on the fact that he posts here with advice. with the facts so far, it seems like he has lied which he has done in the past with letting applicants in in exchange for jobs from corrupted people.


I can't believe you've actually failed to notice that many base their assessments of dean Pless upon their personal IRL interactions with him.

oldtimer
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Re: U. of Illinois Law suspends Dean of Admissions

Postby oldtimer » Mon Sep 19, 2011 5:49 pm

MrAnon wrote:
The bottom line is that every student will do precisely what the university wants - shut up and not rock the boat.



You think?

muaythaifighter
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Re: U. of Illinois Law suspends Dean of Admissions

Postby muaythaifighter » Mon Sep 19, 2011 5:50 pm

Samara wrote:
muaythaifighter wrote:i can't believe ppl think pless is a honest man based on the fact that he posts here with advice. with the facts so far, it seems like he has lied which he has done in the past with letting applicants in in exchange for jobs from corrupted people.

That wasn't him. Get your facts straight.


he did not directly do it, but he knew it was going on yet allowed it to happen, get your facts straights

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bjsesq
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Re: U. of Illinois Law suspends Dean of Admissions

Postby bjsesq » Mon Sep 19, 2011 5:50 pm

MrAnon wrote:The bottom line is that every student will do precisely what the university wants - shut up and not rock the boat.


I can't figure out what the hell you are talking about. You have shifted focus three times now. ANd yeah, I'm sure students who feel lied to don't care at all. Much like they've shown on this thread. Jesus christ.

muaythaifighter
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Re: U. of Illinois Law suspends Dean of Admissions

Postby muaythaifighter » Mon Sep 19, 2011 5:51 pm

dresden doll wrote:
muaythaifighter wrote:i can't believe ppl think pless is a honest man based on the fact that he posts here with advice. with the facts so far, it seems like he has lied which he has done in the past with letting applicants in in exchange for jobs from corrupted people.


I can't believe you've actually failed to notice that many base their assessments of dean Pless upon their personal IRL interactions with him.


yeah because we know what someone is truly doing or like just because they seem pleasant. he was an adcomm interacting with applicants/students. you think he is going to be an ass?

Voyager
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Re: U. of Illinois Law suspends Dean of Admissions

Postby Voyager » Mon Sep 19, 2011 5:51 pm

dresden doll wrote:
muaythaifighter wrote:i can't believe ppl think pless is a honest man based on the fact that he posts here with advice. with the facts so far, it seems like he has lied which he has done in the past with letting applicants in in exchange for jobs from corrupted people.


I can't believe you've actually failed to notice that many base their assessments of dean Pless upon their personal IRL interactions with him.


Yeah. Falwell built a large following using similar positive interactions. Go figure.

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Samara
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Re: U. of Illinois Law suspends Dean of Admissions

Postby Samara » Mon Sep 19, 2011 5:51 pm

muaythaifighter wrote:
Samara wrote:
muaythaifighter wrote:i can't believe ppl think pless is a honest man based on the fact that he posts here with advice. with the facts so far, it seems like he has lied which he has done in the past with letting applicants in in exchange for jobs from corrupted people.

That wasn't him. Get your facts straight.


he did not directly do it, but he knew it was going on yet allowed it to happen, get your facts straights

.
Last edited by Samara on Mon Sep 19, 2011 5:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Kilpatrick
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Re: U. of Illinois Law suspends Dean of Admissions

Postby Kilpatrick » Mon Sep 19, 2011 5:51 pm

muaythaifighter wrote:
Samara wrote:
muaythaifighter wrote:i can't believe ppl think pless is a honest man based on the fact that he posts here with advice. with the facts so far, it seems like he has lied which he has done in the past with letting applicants in in exchange for jobs from corrupted people.

That wasn't him. Get your facts straight.


he did not directly do it, but he knew it was going on yet allowed it to happen, get your facts straights


Of course he knew it was going on, he was being forced to do it. You are an idiot.

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Bildungsroman
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Re: U. of Illinois Law suspends Dean of Admissions

Postby Bildungsroman » Mon Sep 19, 2011 5:52 pm

Holy shit.

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JCougar
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Re: U. of Illinois Law suspends Dean of Admissions

Postby JCougar » Mon Sep 19, 2011 5:52 pm

If the real median this year was 163, then the last few years have to have been fudged, too. There's no way to explain such a huge drop otherwise.

What I don't get is how UIUC got their LSN profile to look like their reported medians were at least close to accurate. Illinois apparently rejected tons of people below a 167. This means one of two things: 1) they were rejecting people for the sole purpose of making their median look higher on LSN at the sacrifice of their actual median, or 2) they were somehow manipulating the LSN data.

I generally think that LSN, even though it's self-reported data, is pretty accurate. Sure, a few people can get on there and make accounts and lie, but the majority of people on there tell the truth, which gives you a good enough picture of overall admission trends. If you believe this is accurate, it means that Illinois was rejecting people below their phony median (to make their phony median look more real), and in the process, screwing their real median (as many of these people with 165s and 166s would have been happy to go there if admitted). I was a typical splitter when I applied last year with an LSAT above median, and I got waitlisted. I went to WUSTL instead, but Illinois was my second choice, and if admitted and given a decent scholarship, I may have gone there instead.

I'm really sorry to hear about this. I interviewed with Dean Pless myself trying to get myself off the waitlist last spring. He seemed like a really nice guy. But I have to say, it takes nice guys to pull this kind of stuff off. If you're abrasive and pissing people off, people are much more likely to challenge you. If you're always a stand-up guy, you'll develop a lot of followers that don't want to question you. I don't believe for a second that this is somehow a mistake. Illinois' medians were always fishy given that they outperformed their school's rank and similarly ranked (or higher ranked) schools that gave out similar tuition money.

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Re: U. of Illinois Law suspends Dean of Admissions

Postby MrAnon » Mon Sep 19, 2011 5:53 pm

Obviously it is the fault of SOMEONE at UIUC. Should we just blame the rain and pray this never happens again?

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Thirteen
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Re: U. of Illinois Law suspends Dean of Admissions

Postby Thirteen » Mon Sep 19, 2011 5:53 pm

dresden doll wrote:
muaythaifighter wrote:i can't believe ppl think pless is a honest man based on the fact that he posts here with advice. with the facts so far, it seems like he has lied which he has done in the past with letting applicants in in exchange for jobs from corrupted people.


I can't believe you've actually failed to notice that many base their assessments of dean Pless upon their personal IRL interactions with him.


This. I think he's a stand-up guy because he's been a man of his word since I met him in February 2009. I can't comment on his culpability in the current shit going on, but neither can any other poster in this thread. At this point, it's all speculation. Instead of calling him a liar, wait until the results of the investigation come out.

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Re: U. of Illinois Law suspends Dean of Admissions

Postby WSJ_Law » Mon Sep 19, 2011 5:53 pm

LOL. Read xoxo's take on this situation. Naive posters with the wool over their eyes re: Pless's charm and presence on this board. Illinois Law is an unethical shithole; this is now documented and proven. Whether it's Pless's fault (personally) or not (WGAF) is a minor issue. The Admissions Department made an EGREGIOUS, reputation-threatening error and it occurred on Pless's watch. So whether he is a liar or an idiot doesn't matter. if he is an honest and respectable and competent as supporters allege, he would have caught this before publication. Now all UIUC students will suffer in at least some way because of either his dishonesty or his incompetence. Take your pick as to which realm of culpability you'd like to subscribe to, but his hands are unclean regardless. Stop your Pro-Pless trolling.

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Thirteen
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Re: U. of Illinois Law suspends Dean of Admissions

Postby Thirteen » Mon Sep 19, 2011 5:55 pm

WSJ_Law wrote:LOL. Read xoxo's take on this situation. Naive posters with the wool over their eyes re: Pless's charm and presence on this board. Illinois Law is an unethical shithole; this is now documented and proven. Whether it's Pless's fault (personally) or not (WGAF) is a minor issue. The Admissions Department made an EGREGIOUS, reputation-threatening error and it occurred on Pless's watch. So whether he is a liar or an idiot doesn't matter. if he is an honest and respectable and competent as supporters allege, he would have caught this before publication. Now all UIUC students will suffer in at least some way because of either his dishonesty or his incompetence. Take your pick as to which realm of culpability you'd like to subscribe to, but his hands are unclean regardless. Stop your Pro-Pless trolling.


Chill.

MrAnon
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Re: U. of Illinois Law suspends Dean of Admissions

Postby MrAnon » Mon Sep 19, 2011 5:55 pm

JCougar wrote:If the real median this year was 163, then the last few years have to have been fudged, too. There's no way to explain such a huge drop otherwise.

What I don't get is how UIUC got their LSN profile to look like their reported medians were at least close to accurate. Illinois apparently rejected tons of people below a 167. This means one of two things: 1) they were rejecting people for the sole purpose of making their median look higher on LSN at the sacrifice of their actual median, or 2) they were somehow manipulating the LSN data.

I generally think that LSN, even though it's self-reported data, is pretty accurate. Sure, a few people can get on there and make accounts and lie, but the majority of people on there tell the truth, which gives you a good enough picture of overall admission trends. If you believe this is accurate, it means that Illinois was rejecting people below their phony median (to make their phony median look more real), and in the process, screwing their real median (as many of these people with 165s and 166s would have been happy to go there if admitted). I was a typical splitter when I applied last year with an LSAT above median, and I got waitlisted. I went to WUSTL instead, but Illinois was my second choice, and if admitted and given a decent scholarship, I may have gone there instead.

I'm really sorry to hear about this. I interviewed with Dean Pless myself trying to get myself off the waitlist last spring. He seemed like a really nice guy. But I have to say, it takes nice guys to pull this kind of stuff off. If you're abrasive and pissing people off, people are much more likely to challenge you. If you're always a stand-up guy, you'll develop a lot of followers that don't want to question you. I don't believe for a second that this is somehow a mistake. Illinois' medians were always fishy given that they outperformed their school's rank and similarly ranked (or higher ranked) schools that gave out similar tuition money.


Any school with a median of 163 is going to reject people with LSATs of 167 to protect yield. Furthermore who even knows if 163 is accurate? I mean until you have at the files yourself, how do you really know? Its not like the school's record on this is that great. 163? Okay I'll take it! I wouldn't believe anything unless I saw it first.

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dresden doll
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Re: U. of Illinois Law suspends Dean of Admissions

Postby dresden doll » Mon Sep 19, 2011 5:56 pm

Voyager wrote:
dresden doll wrote:
muaythaifighter wrote:i can't believe ppl think pless is a honest man based on the fact that he posts here with advice. with the facts so far, it seems like he has lied which he has done in the past with letting applicants in in exchange for jobs from corrupted people.


I can't believe you've actually failed to notice that many base their assessments of dean Pless upon their personal IRL interactions with him.


Yeah. Falwell built a large following using similar positive interactions. Go figure.


Will you stop derping? Falwell appealed to those that were already inclined to share his fundamentalist tendencies. I'd have been happy to tell him to go kick rocks any day of the week.

In other news, all law schools should be audited on the asap schedule.

Voyager
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Re: U. of Illinois Law suspends Dean of Admissions

Postby Voyager » Mon Sep 19, 2011 5:56 pm

JCougar wrote:If the real median this year was 163, then the last few years have to have been fudged, too. There's no way to explain such a huge drop otherwise.

What I don't get is how UIUC got their LSN profile to look like their reported medians were at least close to accurate. Illinois apparently rejected tons of people below a 167. This means one of two things: 1) they were rejecting people for the sole purpose of making their median look higher on LSN at the sacrifice of their actual median, or 2) they were somehow manipulating the LSN data.

I generally think that LSN, even though it's self-reported data, is pretty accurate. Sure, a few people can get on there and make accounts and lie, but the majority of people on there tell the truth, which gives you a good enough picture of overall admission trends. If you believe this is accurate, it means that Illinois was rejecting people below their phony median (to make their phony median look more real), and in the process, screwing their real median (as many of these people with 165s and 166s would have been happy to go there if admitted). I was a typical splitter when I applied last year with an LSAT above median, and I got waitlisted. I went to WUSTL instead, but Illinois was my second choice, and if admitted and given a decent scholarship, I may have gone there instead.

I'm really sorry to hear about this. I interviewed with Dean Pless myself trying to get myself off the waitlist last spring. He seemed like a really nice guy. But I have to say, it takes nice guys to pull this kind of stuff off. If you're abrasive and pissing people off, people are much more likely to challenge you. If you're always a stand-up guy, you'll develop a lot of followers that don't want to question you. I don't believe for a second that this is somehow a mistake. Illinois' medians were always fishy given that they outperformed their school's rank and similarly ranked (or higher ranked) schools that gave out similar tuition money.


Nice post.

Here is another thought: if they are willing to do this with admissions stats (which are difficult to fudge without getting caught), what the hell do you guys think is going on with the employment numbers?

Those must be way way way off.

MrAnon
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Re: U. of Illinois Law suspends Dean of Admissions

Postby MrAnon » Mon Sep 19, 2011 5:57 pm

WSJ_Law wrote:LOL. Read xoxo's take on this situation. Naive posters with the wool over their eyes re: Pless's charm and presence on this board. Illinois Law is an unethical shithole; this is now documented and proven. Whether it's Pless's fault (personally) or not (WGAF) is a minor issue. The Admissions Department made an EGREGIOUS, reputation-threatening error and it occurred on Pless's watch. So whether he is a liar or an idiot doesn't matter. if he is an honest and respectable and competent as supporters allege, he would have caught this before publication. Now all UIUC students will suffer in at least some way because of either his dishonesty or his incompetence. Take your pick as to which realm of culpability you'd like to subscribe to, but his hands are unclean regardless. Stop your Pro-Pless trolling.


I dont think you understand. He did a Q&A session on this website.

WSJ_Law
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Re: U. of Illinois Law suspends Dean of Admissions

Postby WSJ_Law » Mon Sep 19, 2011 5:57 pm

MrAnon wrote:
I dont think you understand. He did a Q&A session on this website.


LOL HE MUST BE HONEST AND INFALLIBLE!!!!!!!1

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minnbills
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Re: U. of Illinois Law suspends Dean of Admissions

Postby minnbills » Mon Sep 19, 2011 5:58 pm

dresden doll wrote:Will you stop derping? Falwell appealed to those that were already inclined to share his fundamentalist tendencies. I'd have been happy to tell him to go kick rocks any day of the week.

In other news, all law schools should be audited on the asap schedule.


eh, not wanting to hijack but TBF I've heard other atheists give him a pass because he "made his argument in a respectful manner" and that he "seemed like a nice person."

Not saying that's right but I've heard it. People will ignore negatives because someone is likable in person, GWB anyone?

Back on topic, are any UIUCers on here considering dropping out and reapplying next year?

MrAnon
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Re: U. of Illinois Law suspends Dean of Admissions

Postby MrAnon » Mon Sep 19, 2011 5:58 pm

dresden doll wrote:
Voyager wrote:
dresden doll wrote:
muaythaifighter wrote:i can't believe ppl think pless is a honest man based on the fact that he posts here with advice. with the facts so far, it seems like he has lied which he has done in the past with letting applicants in in exchange for jobs from corrupted people.


I can't believe you've actually failed to notice that many base their assessments of dean Pless upon their personal IRL interactions with him.


Yeah. Falwell built a large following using similar positive interactions. Go figure.


Will you stop derping? Falwell appealed to those that were already inclined to share his fundamentalist tendencies. I'd have been happy to tell him to go kick rocks any day of the week.

In other news, all law schools should be audited on the asap schedule.


Please do not deflect to other law schools. I am pretty sure most of the admits bought into the UIUC 178 median lsat or whatever they claimed it was. People want to feel elite, that they are part of a great selective school.

Voyager
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Re: U. of Illinois Law suspends Dean of Admissions

Postby Voyager » Mon Sep 19, 2011 5:58 pm

dresden doll wrote:
Voyager wrote:
dresden doll wrote:
muaythaifighter wrote:i can't believe ppl think pless is a honest man based on the fact that he posts here with advice. with the facts so far, it seems like he has lied which he has done in the past with letting applicants in in exchange for jobs from corrupted people.


I can't believe you've actually failed to notice that many base their assessments of dean Pless upon their personal IRL interactions with him.


Yeah. Falwell built a large following using similar positive interactions. Go figure.


Will you stop derping? Falwell appealed to those that were already inclined to share his fundamentalist tendencies. I'd have been happy to tell him to go kick rocks any day of the week.

In other news, all law schools should be audited on the asap schedule.


Agree with your 2nd point. Your first point is incorrect. That guy was genuinely charismatic. Simply all there is to it. I am a militant aetheist and in 30 minutes of non-religious conversation with the guy I found him to be personable and nice.

Then I listened to his sermon and remembered whyI despised him.

Your position demonstrates a lack of experience in the world.

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Samara
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Re: U. of Illinois Law suspends Dean of Admissions

Postby Samara » Mon Sep 19, 2011 5:59 pm

JCougar wrote:If the real median this year was 163, then the last few years have to have been fudged, too. There's no way to explain such a huge drop otherwise.

What I don't get is how UIUC got their LSN profile to look like their reported medians were at least close to accurate. Illinois apparently rejected tons of people below a 167. This means one of two things: 1) they were rejecting people for the sole purpose of making their median look higher on LSN at the sacrifice of their actual median, or 2) they were somehow manipulating the LSN data.

I generally think that LSN, even though it's self-reported data, is pretty accurate. Sure, a few people can get on there and make accounts and lie, but the majority of people on there tell the truth, which gives you a good enough picture of overall admission trends. If you believe this is accurate, it means that Illinois was rejecting people below their phony median (to make their phony median look more real), and in the process, screwing their real median (as many of these people with 165s and 166s would have been happy to go there if admitted). I was a typical splitter when I applied last year with an LSAT above median, and I got waitlisted. I went to WUSTL instead, but Illinois was my second choice, and if admitted and given a decent scholarship, I may have gone there instead.

I'm really sorry to hear about this. I interviewed with Dean Pless myself trying to get myself off the waitlist last spring. He seemed like a really nice guy. But I have to say, it takes nice guys to pull this kind of stuff off. If you're abrasive and pissing people off, people are much more likely to challenge you. If you're always a stand-up guy, you'll develop a lot of followers that don't want to question you. I don't believe for a second that this is somehow a mistake. Illinois' medians were always fishy given that they outperformed their school's rank and similarly ranked (or higher ranked) schools that gave out similar tuition money.

I think the problem is that LSN in not representative of the entire applicant pool. People on LSN are more likely to be higher performing applicants and probably skew towards higher LSAT scores. They're on LSN because they are doing a lot of prep for their apps. LSN shows roughly the same number of applicants with a ~168/~3.3 as a ~164/3.3. Something tells me that UIUC's true applicant pool has many more of the ~163/~3.3 applicants.

If anything, we should perhaps question LSN as an accurate predictor. Certainly, it's less accurate for lower-ranked schools and state schools, no?

letsgobroncos
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Re: U. of Illinois Law suspends Dean of Admissions

Postby letsgobroncos » Mon Sep 19, 2011 6:00 pm

So UIUC will likely end up somewhere ~#50 in the next USN Rankings. Quite a drop.




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