U. of Illinois Law suspends Dean of Admissions

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c3pO4
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Re: U. of Illinois Law suspends Dean of Admissions

Postby c3pO4 » Mon Nov 07, 2011 8:18 pm

Tanicius wrote:
Bildungsroman wrote:At the time he was posting on TLS there was no hint of this scandal that was brewing, nothing to indicate that there was anything amiss, and he offered a pretty responsive and candid body of advice to potential applicants that was unparalleled among admissions deans. It is the height of retardation and self-righteous hindsight to come in now and say "LOL LOOK AT THIS DOOD UR ALL RUHTARDS FOR HAVING LIKED HIM." Obviously we now know that he was a real piece of work, but at the time he was giving advice on TLS it was completely reasonable that people were fans of his.


Well said. Wasn't sure how to convey this without acting all indignant.


Yea, great use of the word retardation as an insult.

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tmon
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Re: U. of Illinois Law suspends Dean of Admissions

Postby tmon » Mon Nov 07, 2011 8:19 pm

c3pO4 wrote:
Tanicius wrote:
Bildungsroman wrote:At the time he was posting on TLS there was no hint of this scandal that was brewing, nothing to indicate that there was anything amiss, and he offered a pretty responsive and candid body of advice to potential applicants that was unparalleled among admissions deans. It is the height of retardation and self-righteous hindsight to come in now and say "LOL LOOK AT THIS DOOD UR ALL RUHTARDS FOR HAVING LIKED HIM." Obviously we now know that he was a real piece of work, but at the time he was giving advice on TLS it was completely reasonable that people were fans of his.


Well said. Wasn't sure how to convey this without acting all indignant.


Yea, great use of the word retardation as an insult.

...as an example of what not to do.

Derp.

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Bildungsroman
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Re: U. of Illinois Law suspends Dean of Admissions

Postby Bildungsroman » Mon Nov 07, 2011 8:19 pm

c3pO4 wrote:
Tanicius wrote:
Bildungsroman wrote:At the time he was posting on TLS there was no hint of this scandal that was brewing, nothing to indicate that there was anything amiss, and he offered a pretty responsive and candid body of advice to potential applicants that was unparalleled among admissions deans. It is the height of retardation and self-righteous hindsight to come in now and say "LOL LOOK AT THIS DOOD UR ALL RUHTARDS FOR HAVING LIKED HIM." Obviously we now know that he was a real piece of work, but at the time he was giving advice on TLS it was completely reasonable that people were fans of his.


Well said. Wasn't sure how to convey this without acting all indignant.


Yea, great use of the word retardation as an insult.

Maybe you should write your congressman about it.

c3pO4
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Re: U. of Illinois Law suspends Dean of Admissions

Postby c3pO4 » Mon Nov 07, 2011 8:21 pm

tmon wrote:
c3pO4 wrote:
Tanicius wrote:
Bildungsroman wrote:At the time he was posting on TLS there was no hint of this scandal that was brewing, nothing to indicate that there was anything amiss, and he offered a pretty responsive and candid body of advice to potential applicants that was unparalleled among admissions deans. It is the height of retardation and self-righteous hindsight to come in now and say "LOL LOOK AT THIS DOOD UR ALL RUHTARDS FOR HAVING LIKED HIM." Obviously we now know that he was a real piece of work, but at the time he was giving advice on TLS it was completely reasonable that people were fans of his.


Well said. Wasn't sure how to convey this without acting all indignant.


Yea, great use of the word retardation as an insult.

...as an example of what not to do.

Derp.


RC fail. The usage is offensive. I wasn't saying it didn't make sense.

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Helmholtz
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Re: U. of Illinois Law suspends Dean of Admissions

Postby Helmholtz » Mon Nov 07, 2011 8:22 pm

Grizz wrote:
Helmholtz wrote:
lololololololol

We all know why admissions people do it, just don't like about it next time?


Yeah. I wouldn't be surprised if every admissions officer has discussed at some point how to "game the system." I don't blame them. Part of doing a job well is working (usually within the rules) to bring about the best outcome for yourself / your employer. It's just the blatant hypocrisy and lying (and again, I doubt Pless is alone here) that just makes me shake my head. I would really respect an admission director who would say, "Look, it's in the best interest of the school to be ranked as high as possible—especially in terms of attracting the best students and professors. This is one way for us to boost our numbers. Is it fair to the other schools that don't do this? Probably not, but we didn't invent the rules to this game. We think that the students being admitted to this program are qualified and at the end of the day, I don't think anybody's classroom experience is being diminished by admitting people based just on their GPA in limited circumstances."

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Corsair
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Re: U. of Illinois Law suspends Dean of Admissions

Postby Corsair » Mon Nov 07, 2011 8:23 pm

..

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Helmholtz
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Re: U. of Illinois Law suspends Dean of Admissions

Postby Helmholtz » Mon Nov 07, 2011 8:26 pm

Kilpatrick wrote:
c3pO4 wrote:I think the level to which he was idolized on this site really says a lot about TLS.


What does it say about TLS? People liked him because he was here and would answer questions and give out info like when decisions were coming out. It sucks that he was so transparent about certain aspects of the admissions process while blatantly lying about the numbers - but that doesn't change the fact that he did a lot of good things on here and eased a lot of people's stress while they were applying.


I don't blame people at all for liking him. I thought it was terrific that he came on here and gave advice (even if sometimes it was just generic admissions-speak), and he seemed like a nice enough guy.

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bjsesq
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Re: U. of Illinois Law suspends Dean of Admissions

Postby bjsesq » Mon Nov 07, 2011 8:31 pm

c3pO4 wrote:
Tanicius wrote:
Bildungsroman wrote:At the time he was posting on TLS there was no hint of this scandal that was brewing, nothing to indicate that there was anything amiss, and he offered a pretty responsive and candid body of advice to potential applicants that was unparalleled among admissions deans. It is the height of retardation and self-righteous hindsight to come in now and say "LOL LOOK AT THIS DOOD UR ALL RUHTARDS FOR HAVING LIKED HIM." Obviously we now know that he was a real piece of work, but at the time he was giving advice on TLS it was completely reasonable that people were fans of his.


Well said. Wasn't sure how to convey this without acting all indignant.


Yea, great use of the word retardation as an insult.


Hey retard, your retarded deflection didn't distract us enough to notice that you had no response to bils' point.


Retard.

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Indifferent
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Re: U. of Illinois Law suspends Dean of Admissions

Postby Indifferent » Mon Nov 07, 2011 8:33 pm

bjsesq wrote:
c3pO4 wrote:
Tanicius wrote:
Bildungsroman wrote:At the time he was posting on TLS there was no hint of this scandal that was brewing, nothing to indicate that there was anything amiss, and he offered a pretty responsive and candid body of advice to potential applicants that was unparalleled among admissions deans. It is the height of retardation and self-righteous hindsight to come in now and say "LOL LOOK AT THIS DOOD UR ALL RUHTARDS FOR HAVING LIKED HIM." Obviously we now know that he was a real piece of work, but at the time he was giving advice on TLS it was completely reasonable that people were fans of his.


Well said. Wasn't sure how to convey this without acting all indignant.


Yea, great use of the word retardation as an insult.


Hey retard, your retarded deflection didn't distract us enough to notice that you had no response to bils' point.


Retard.

Omnomnomnom hungry troll is being fed.

c3pO4
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Re: U. of Illinois Law suspends Dean of Admissions

Postby c3pO4 » Mon Nov 07, 2011 8:34 pm

bjsesq wrote:
c3pO4 wrote:
Tanicius wrote:
Bildungsroman wrote:At the time he was posting on TLS there was no hint of this scandal that was brewing, nothing to indicate that there was anything amiss, and he offered a pretty responsive and candid body of advice to potential applicants that was unparalleled among admissions deans. It is the height of retardation and self-righteous hindsight to come in now and say "LOL LOOK AT THIS DOOD UR ALL RUHTARDS FOR HAVING LIKED HIM." Obviously we now know that he was a real piece of work, but at the time he was giving advice on TLS it was completely reasonable that people were fans of his.


Well said. Wasn't sure how to convey this without acting all indignant.


Yea, great use of the word retardation as an insult.


Hey retard, your retarded deflection didn't distract us enough to notice that you had no response to bils' point.


Retard.


Yikes. To be fair, our points can both be valid. I said you never know when a Dean on here giving advice is actually rigging the books. That's not inconsistent with Bils' point. Yea, I took a stab at TLS bozos in my initial post which clearly made a bunch of people mad, but my point hasn't been refuted.

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bjsesq
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Re: U. of Illinois Law suspends Dean of Admissions

Postby bjsesq » Mon Nov 07, 2011 8:36 pm

c3pO4 wrote:Yikes. To be fair, our points can both be valid. I said you never know when a Dean on here giving advice is actually rigging the books. That's not inconsistent with Bils' point. Yea, I took a stab at TLS bozos in my initial post which clearly made a bunch of people mad, but my point hasn't been refuted.


What the fuck was your point? "says a lot about tls"

That you're a retard?

dreakol
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Re: U. of Illinois Law suspends Dean of Admissions

Postby dreakol » Mon Nov 07, 2011 8:43 pm

bjsesq wrote:
c3pO4 wrote:Yikes. To be fair, our points can both be valid. I said you never know when a Dean on here giving advice is actually rigging the books. That's not inconsistent with Bils' point. Yea, I took a stab at TLS bozos in my initial post which clearly made a bunch of people mad, but my point hasn't been refuted.


What the fuck was your point? "says a lot about tls"

That you're a retard?


GAIAtheCHEERLEADER wrote:The way the words "gay" and "retarded" are used ITT is uncalled for.

OP is banned for a week.

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birdlaw117
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Re: U. of Illinois Law suspends Dean of Admissions

Postby birdlaw117 » Mon Nov 07, 2011 8:44 pm

dreakol wrote:
bjsesq wrote:
c3pO4 wrote:Yikes. To be fair, our points can both be valid. I said you never know when a Dean on here giving advice is actually rigging the books. That's not inconsistent with Bils' point. Yea, I took a stab at TLS bozos in my initial post which clearly made a bunch of people mad, but my point hasn't been refuted.


What the fuck was your point? "says a lot about tls"

That you're a retard?


GAIAtheCHEERLEADER wrote:The way the words "gay" and "retarded" are used ITT is uncalled for.

OP is banned for a week.

Thanks Mod. There haven't been any Mods frequenting this thread...

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bjsesq
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Re: U. of Illinois Law suspends Dean of Admissions

Postby bjsesq » Mon Nov 07, 2011 8:45 pm

dreakol wrote:
bjsesq wrote:
c3pO4 wrote:Yikes. To be fair, our points can both be valid. I said you never know when a Dean on here giving advice is actually rigging the books. That's not inconsistent with Bils' point. Yea, I took a stab at TLS bozos in my initial post which clearly made a bunch of people mad, but my point hasn't been refuted.


What the fuck was your point? "says a lot about tls"

That you're a retard?


GAIAtheCHEERLEADER wrote:The way the words "gay" and "retarded" are used ITT is uncalled for.

OP is banned for a week.


Get off his jock, pussy.

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Kilpatrick
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Re: U. of Illinois Law suspends Dean of Admissions

Postby Kilpatrick » Mon Nov 07, 2011 8:55 pm

dreakol wrote:
bjsesq wrote:
c3pO4 wrote:Yikes. To be fair, our points can both be valid. I said you never know when a Dean on here giving advice is actually rigging the books. That's not inconsistent with Bils' point. Yea, I took a stab at TLS bozos in my initial post which clearly made a bunch of people mad, but my point hasn't been refuted.


What the fuck was your point? "says a lot about tls"

That you're a retard?


GAIAtheCHEERLEADER wrote:The way the words "gay" and "retarded" are used ITT is uncalled for.

OP is banned for a week.


Obviously the use of the word retard was called for in this instance. HTH

ETA:

You actually reported bj in the mod thread? Oh my god, what a douche.

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bjsesq
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Re: U. of Illinois Law suspends Dean of Admissions

Postby bjsesq » Mon Nov 07, 2011 8:57 pm

AWESOME

delusional
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Re: U. of Illinois Law suspends Dean of Admissions

Postby delusional » Mon Nov 07, 2011 9:07 pm

I don't think this report is necessarily as damning as it might appear.

1. First of all, it is just as bad to doctor the employment statistics the way they do, as it is to change LSAT and GPA. Employment statistics are the result of how well a school related function is performed; LSAT and GPA are arguably a measure of nothing more than prestige.

2. It seems like there ought to be a little more skepticism of a result that conveniently allows the school to put everything on the guy who was fired. But this is the second admissions scandal since he got there, and his lack of involvement in the other one seems confirmed. (Or at least it did at the time... See previous sentence). Maybe there is a systemic reason why people keep getting accused of stuff there.

3. The doctoring seems to have been both oddly random and oddly specific. Maybe there were some loose practices and convenient mistakes, but that doesn't mean that it was one guy, and it doesn't mean that it was calculated and deliberate.

4. What would be the rationale for not doing it in the years he didn't?

5. The inferences that everyone is drawing about how he talked to applicants and friends differently don't mean much to me. Not only is the comment about the "bastards who have high GPAs" fully compatible with his wholesome earnest comments about giving Illinois students the best shot; but now we're criticizing him for acknowledging that he'd rather have a substantive 3.5 from a good school than a useless 3.9 from a bad one? Isn't that what everyone wants admissions to be like?

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zozin
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Re: U. of Illinois Law suspends Dean of Admissions

Postby zozin » Mon Nov 07, 2011 9:39 pm

delusional wrote:I don't think this report is necessarily as damning as it might appear.

1. First of all, it is just as bad to doctor the employment statistics the way they do, as it is to change LSAT and GPA. Employment statistics are the result of how well a school related function is performed; LSAT and GPA are arguably a measure of nothing more than prestige.

2. It seems like there ought to be a little more skepticism of a result that conveniently allows the school to put everything on the guy who was fired. But this is the second admissions scandal since he got there, and his lack of involvement in the other one seems confirmed. (Or at least it did at the time... See previous sentence). Maybe there is a systemic reason why people keep getting accused of stuff there.

3. The doctoring seems to have been both oddly random and oddly specific. Maybe there were some loose practices and convenient mistakes, but that doesn't mean that it was one guy, and it doesn't mean that it was calculated and deliberate.

4. What would be the rationale for not doing it in the years he didn't?

5. The inferences that everyone is drawing about how he talked to applicants and friends differently don't mean much to me. Not only is the comment about the "bastards who have high GPAs" fully compatible with his wholesome earnest comments about giving Illinois students the best shot; but now we're criticizing him for acknowledging that he'd rather have a substantive 3.5 from a good school than a useless 3.9 from a bad one? Isn't that what everyone wants admissions to be like?


Read the report again. Changing only 2 LSAT scores to reverse the ratio of 95:93 so the median LSAT could be 166 is pretty damning. The changes weren't consistently done because there wasn't need some years. They met the goals set, so why fudge the numbers.

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TommyK
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Re: U. of Illinois Law suspends Dean of Admissions

Postby TommyK » Mon Nov 07, 2011 10:01 pm

delusional wrote:I don't think this report is necessarily as damning as it might appear.


At least you have the right username :)

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Re: U. of Illinois Law suspends Dean of Admissions

Postby delusional » Mon Nov 07, 2011 10:23 pm

TommyK wrote:
delusional wrote:I don't think this report is necessarily as damning as it might appear.


At least you have the right username :)

Meh. I'm not saying he's blameless, just trying to adjust perspective.

MrAnon
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Re: U. of Illinois Law suspends Dean of Admissions

Postby MrAnon » Mon Nov 07, 2011 10:42 pm

Kilpatrick wrote:
c3pO4 wrote:I think the level to which he was idolized on this site really says a lot about TLS.


What does it say about TLS? People liked him because he was here and would answer questions and give out info like when decisions were coming out. It sucks that he was so transparent about certain aspects of the admissions process while blatantly lying about the numbers - but that doesn't change the fact that he did a lot of good things on here and eased a lot of people's stress while they were applying.


Any idiot could have come on claiming to be whatever and rambled on and on about admissions and everyone would eat it up like candy. The alleged law firm recruiting officer thread is another example of this. Who is this person? What is he/she about? What are his/her credentials? Has he/she been as thoroughly vetted as Pless was (ha!)?

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JusticeHarlan
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Re: U. of Illinois Law suspends Dean of Admissions

Postby JusticeHarlan » Mon Nov 07, 2011 11:21 pm

MrAnon wrote:
Kilpatrick wrote:
c3pO4 wrote:I think the level to which he was idolized on this site really says a lot about TLS.


What does it say about TLS? People liked him because he was here and would answer questions and give out info like when decisions were coming out. It sucks that he was so transparent about certain aspects of the admissions process while blatantly lying about the numbers - but that doesn't change the fact that he did a lot of good things on here and eased a lot of people's stress while they were applying.


Any idiot could have come on claiming to be whatever and rambled on and on about admissions and everyone would eat it up like candy. The alleged law firm recruiting officer thread is another example of this. Who is this person? What is he/she about? What are his/her credentials? Has he/she been as thoroughly vetted as Pless was (ha!)?

Who are you? What are you about? What are your credentials? Have you been vetted? Why should anyone listen to anything you say?

c3pO4
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Re: U. of Illinois Law suspends Dean of Admissions

Postby c3pO4 » Mon Nov 07, 2011 11:24 pm

MrAnon wrote:
Kilpatrick wrote:
c3pO4 wrote:I think the level to which he was idolized on this site really says a lot about TLS.


What does it say about TLS? People liked him because he was here and would answer questions and give out info like when decisions were coming out. It sucks that he was so transparent about certain aspects of the admissions process while blatantly lying about the numbers - but that doesn't change the fact that he did a lot of good things on here and eased a lot of people's stress while they were applying.


Any idiot could have come on claiming to be whatever and rambled on and on about admissions and everyone would eat it up like candy. The alleged law firm recruiting officer thread is another example of this. Who is this person? What is he/she about? What are his/her credentials? Has he/she been as thoroughly vetted as Pless was (ha!)?


Thanks Mr. Anon. Thought I was crazy. The point stands that this scandal demonstrates the need to take things from TLS with a grain of salt. ---and i agree that law firm recruiting thread is strange. It's not 100% apparent that the recruiter isn't biglaw in a major market right away, and most of the questions are from people looking for NYC biglaw...

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JusticeHarlan
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Re: U. of Illinois Law suspends Dean of Admissions

Postby JusticeHarlan » Mon Nov 07, 2011 11:28 pm

c3pO4 wrote:Thanks Mr. Anon. Thought I was crazy. The point stands that this scandal demonstrates the need to take things from TLS with a grain of salt.

How does it show that?

c3pO4
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Re: U. of Illinois Law suspends Dean of Admissions

Postby c3pO4 » Mon Nov 07, 2011 11:30 pm

JusticeHarlan wrote:
c3pO4 wrote:Thanks Mr. Anon. Thought I was crazy. The point stands that this scandal demonstrates the need to take things from TLS with a grain of salt.

How does it show that?


Because it shows a poster people thought was a great resource turned out to be mega sketchy... come on man.

Edit: IDK if you can definitively say his previous advice on this sight was divorced from the improprieties. If you knew in reverse order about the recent stuff they uncovered and then there was an admissions thread, would anybody listen? No. That's my point.
Last edited by c3pO4 on Mon Nov 07, 2011 11:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.




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