U. of Illinois Law suspends Dean of Admissions

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keg411
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Re: U. of Illinois Law suspends Dean of Admissions

Postby keg411 » Mon Nov 07, 2011 7:03 pm

Tanicius wrote:I... This... Just wow. In fucking credible. You couldn't make up these emails and the level of fraud required to do this. Jesus Christ. I was with bj in still feeling sorry for Pless when I read the initial quotes from this report, but some of the shit he said in emails to professional coworkers... This guy is a massive, massive jerk (and of course a liar).


I actually just got to the part of the report regarding the South Dakota bashing; Pless didn't say that, Professor Robert Lawless, who was consulting on the GPA/LSAT stuff, did. It's at the bottom of page 36. However, the iLeap stuff is definitely asshole-ish and that's all on Pless.

ETA: Also, according to the report, reverse splitters are far more valuable than traditional splitters.

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Cornelius
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Re: U. of Illinois Law suspends Dean of Admissions

Postby Cornelius » Mon Nov 07, 2011 7:10 pm

Hopefully other school's aren't going to adhere to this belief in the face of a smaller applicant pool this year:

Smith added that “[t]he most effective and time-tested approach to improving a school’s student-related numbers across-the-board is to reduce class size,” because such reductions “improve student credentials, a school’s student-faculty ratio, a school’s bar passage numbers, and a school’s employment rates – all of which factor importantly in the U.S. News rankings."

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Bildungsroman
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Re: U. of Illinois Law suspends Dean of Admissions

Postby Bildungsroman » Mon Nov 07, 2011 7:11 pm

Cornelius wrote:Hopefully other school's aren't going to adhere to this belief in the face of a smaller applicant pool this year:

Smith added that “[t]he most effective and time-tested approach to improving a school’s student-related numbers across-the-board is to reduce class size,” because such reductions “improve student credentials, a school’s student-faculty ratio, a school’s bar passage numbers, and a school’s employment rates – all of which factor importantly in the U.S. News rankings."

You don't want them to shrink class sizes? :?

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Cornelius
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Re: U. of Illinois Law suspends Dean of Admissions

Postby Cornelius » Mon Nov 07, 2011 7:12 pm

Bildungsroman wrote:
Cornelius wrote:Hopefully other school's aren't going to adhere to this belief in the face of a smaller applicant pool this year:

Smith added that “[t]he most effective and time-tested approach to improving a school’s student-related numbers across-the-board is to reduce class size,” because such reductions “improve student credentials, a school’s student-faculty ratio, a school’s bar passage numbers, and a school’s employment rates – all of which factor importantly in the U.S. News rankings."

You don't want them to shrink class sizes? :?


As a splitter? No, I want the top schools to take my LSAT score to maintain their medians, not reduce the class size and keep admission standards at the same level they were.
Last edited by Cornelius on Mon Nov 07, 2011 7:14 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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bk1
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Re: U. of Illinois Law suspends Dean of Admissions

Postby bk1 » Mon Nov 07, 2011 7:13 pm

PDaddy wrote:
bjsesq wrote:This makes me angry at Pless.

I still feel bad for the guy, even if he is a liar.


Don't! He doesn't belong in our coveted profession.


*Insert obligatory joke about this being the one profession he does belong in.*

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minnbills
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Re: U. of Illinois Law suspends Dean of Admissions

Postby minnbills » Mon Nov 07, 2011 7:22 pm

Nightrunner wrote:
MrAnon wrote:wow Pless really turned this website into his own advertising machine.

Whatever do you mean?


I'm guessing that's dean pless in your tar? Nice
Last edited by minnbills on Mon Nov 07, 2011 7:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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crumpetsandtea
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Re: U. of Illinois Law suspends Dean of Admissions

Postby crumpetsandtea » Mon Nov 07, 2011 7:23 pm

Nightrunner wrote:
MrAnon wrote:wow Pless really turned this website into his own advertising machine.

Whatever do you mean?

:lol: :lol: :lol: I <3 you.

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Richie Tenenbaum
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Re: U. of Illinois Law suspends Dean of Admissions

Postby Richie Tenenbaum » Mon Nov 07, 2011 7:31 pm

Cornelius wrote:
Bildungsroman wrote:
Cornelius wrote:Hopefully other school's aren't going to adhere to this belief in the face of a smaller applicant pool this year:

Smith added that “[t]he most effective and time-tested approach to improving a school’s student-related numbers across-the-board is to reduce class size,” because such reductions “improve student credentials, a school’s student-faculty ratio, a school’s bar passage numbers, and a school’s employment rates – all of which factor importantly in the U.S. News rankings."

You don't want them to shrink class sizes? :?


As a splitter? No, I want the top schools to take my LSAT score to maintain their medians, not reduce the class size and keep admission standards at the same level they were.

TBF, while smaller classes may hurt you on an individual level, they are probably better for the legal profession in general. So I have no problem with all schools doing this more. Increases in tuition, so schools can increase thier scholarships given out has a negative consequence on a lot of law students. I would prefer that schools do this less.

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Cornelius
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Re: U. of Illinois Law suspends Dean of Admissions

Postby Cornelius » Mon Nov 07, 2011 7:35 pm

Richie Tenenbaum wrote:TBF, while smaller classes may hurt you on an individual level, they are probably better for the legal profession in general. So I have no problem with all schools doing this more. Increases in tuition, so schools can increase thier scholarships given out has a negative consequence on a lot of law students. I would prefer that schools do this less.

Agreed, but from a selfish perspective, I'd like so see the top 20 or so maintain class size, with all schools ranked lower than that reducing size to maintain medians. Of course with the size of the drop in test takers, I'm imagining a bit of both will be happening - both lower standards for admission and slightly smaller classes (since they can't decrease too quickly without financial implications on the school).

MrAnon
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Re: U. of Illinois Law suspends Dean of Admissions

Postby MrAnon » Mon Nov 07, 2011 7:39 pm

Nightrunner wrote:
MrAnon wrote:wow Pless really turned this website into his own advertising machine.

Whatever do you mean?


You guys bought his marketing ploys hook, line and sinker.

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omninode
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Re: U. of Illinois Law suspends Dean of Admissions

Postby omninode » Mon Nov 07, 2011 7:40 pm

http://www.law.illinois.edu/faculty/profile/robertlawless

A law professor named Lawless. Too perfect.

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JamMasterJ
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Re: U. of Illinois Law suspends Dean of Admissions

Postby JamMasterJ » Mon Nov 07, 2011 7:41 pm

Cornelius wrote:
Richie Tenenbaum wrote:TBF, while smaller classes may hurt you on an individual level, they are probably better for the legal profession in general. So I have no problem with all schools doing this more. Increases in tuition, so schools can increase thier scholarships given out has a negative consequence on a lot of law students. I would prefer that schools do this less.

Agreed, but from a selfish perspective, I'd like so see the top 20 or so maintain class size, with all schools ranked lower than that reducing size to maintain medians. Of course with the size of the drop in test takers, I'm imagining a bit of both will be happening - both lower standards for admission and slightly smaller classes (since they can't decrease too quickly without financial implications on the school).

Keep the T20 the same. Kill the rest

lsatcrazy
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Re: U. of Illinois Law suspends Dean of Admissions

Postby lsatcrazy » Mon Nov 07, 2011 7:43 pm

I wonder how much sleep Pless has lost over the last five years...I can't imagine the extra 100k or so in salary was worth it...

c3pO4
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Re: U. of Illinois Law suspends Dean of Admissions

Postby c3pO4 » Mon Nov 07, 2011 7:49 pm

I think the level to which he was idolized on this site really says a lot about TLS.

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Bildungsroman
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Re: U. of Illinois Law suspends Dean of Admissions

Postby Bildungsroman » Mon Nov 07, 2011 7:51 pm

c3pO4 wrote:I think the level to which he was idolized on this site really says a lot about TLS.

You're a fucking idiot. Literally every post of yours that I've read confirms this.

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Kilpatrick
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Re: U. of Illinois Law suspends Dean of Admissions

Postby Kilpatrick » Mon Nov 07, 2011 7:56 pm

c3pO4 wrote:I think the level to which he was idolized on this site really says a lot about TLS.


What does it say about TLS? People liked him because he was here and would answer questions and give out info like when decisions were coming out. It sucks that he was so transparent about certain aspects of the admissions process while blatantly lying about the numbers - but that doesn't change the fact that he did a lot of good things on here and eased a lot of people's stress while they were applying.

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omninode
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Re: U. of Illinois Law suspends Dean of Admissions

Postby omninode » Mon Nov 07, 2011 7:58 pm

Bildungsroman wrote:
c3pO4 wrote:I think the level to which he was idolized on this site really says a lot about TLS.

You're a fucking idiot. Literally every post of yours that I've read confirms this.

c3pO4
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Re: U. of Illinois Law suspends Dean of Admissions

Postby c3pO4 » Mon Nov 07, 2011 8:00 pm

Bildungsroman wrote:
c3pO4 wrote:I think the level to which he was idolized on this site really says a lot about TLS.

You're a fucking idiot. Literally every post of yours that I've read confirms this.


lol, u mad?

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omninode
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Re: U. of Illinois Law suspends Dean of Admissions

Postby omninode » Mon Nov 07, 2011 8:01 pm

Kilpatrick wrote:
c3pO4 wrote:I think the level to which he was idolized on this site really says a lot about TLS.


What does it say about TLS? People liked him because he was here and would answer questions and give out info like when decisions were coming out. It sucks that he was so transparent about certain aspects of the admissions process while blatantly lying about the numbers - but that doesn't change the fact that he did a lot of good things on here and eased a lot of people's stress while they were applying.



Exactly. The fact that he did a lot of bad things doesn't mean he never did anything good. I really don't think he had ulterior motives in talking to TLS (other than promoting his school, but that's expected).

keg411
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Re: U. of Illinois Law suspends Dean of Admissions

Postby keg411 » Mon Nov 07, 2011 8:03 pm

c3pO4 wrote:I think the level to which he was idolized on this site really says a lot about TLS.


If he was really that good at attracting students, beyond just giving an "inside baseball" look at the admissions process, he wouldn't have had to cook the numbers. I think people found him interesting, but overall the number of people that went to UIUC because of him was probably negligible, no matter what people said to him on the boards.

Curt Schilling posted on a Yankees board I used to visit a few times years ago back when he was pitching for the Red Sox and people were nice to him. No one became a Red Sox fan after that and most still actively hated him. But he was an actual baseball player posting with "regular baseball fans". So it's sort of like that. With manufactured bloody socks instead of manufactured LSAT/GPA data ;).

FTR, I personally found Pless's stuff interesting for the "inside baseball factor", but never applied to Illinois nor did I ever intend to.
Last edited by keg411 on Mon Nov 07, 2011 8:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

c3pO4
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Re: U. of Illinois Law suspends Dean of Admissions

Postby c3pO4 » Mon Nov 07, 2011 8:04 pm

omninode wrote:
Bildungsroman wrote:
c3pO4 wrote:I think the level to which he was idolized on this site really says a lot about TLS.

You're a fucking idiot. Literally every post of yours that I've read confirms this.


Well, I must have struck a nerve :). The point is, this site's utility only goes so far, and it isn't immune to gaming any more than US News is. Some of the stuff people assume is true on TLS is BS, and you never know if you are talking to a helpful Dean or somebody who is rigging the numbers.

Of course, I guess that and every one of my other posts makes me a fucking idiot. Fine by me.

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Bildungsroman
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Re: U. of Illinois Law suspends Dean of Admissions

Postby Bildungsroman » Mon Nov 07, 2011 8:09 pm

At the time he was posting on TLS there was no hint of this scandal that was brewing, nothing to indicate that there was anything amiss, and he offered a pretty responsive and candid body of advice to potential applicants that was unparalleled among admissions deans. It is the height of retardation and self-righteous hindsight to come in now and say "LOL LOOK AT THIS DOOD UR ALL RUHTARDS FOR HAVING LIKED HIM." Obviously we now know that he was a real piece of work, but at the time he was giving advice on TLS it was completely reasonable that people were fans of his.

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Bildungsroman
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Re: U. of Illinois Law suspends Dean of Admissions

Postby Bildungsroman » Mon Nov 07, 2011 8:09 pm

c3pO4 wrote:
omninode wrote:
Bildungsroman wrote:
c3pO4 wrote:I think the level to which he was idolized on this site really says a lot about TLS.

You're a fucking idiot. Literally every post of yours that I've read confirms this.


Well, I must have struck a nerve :). The point is, this site's utility only goes so far, and it isn't immune to gaming any more than US News is. Some of the stuff people assume is true on TLS is BS, and you never know if you are talking to a helpful Dean or somebody who is rigging the numbers.

Of course, I guess that and every one of my other posts makes me a fucking idiot. Fine by me.

Nice, this post keeps your streak alive.

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birdlaw117
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Re: U. of Illinois Law suspends Dean of Admissions

Postby birdlaw117 » Mon Nov 07, 2011 8:11 pm

c3pO4 wrote:Well, I must have struck a nerve :). The point is, this site's utility only goes so far, and it isn't immune to gaming any more than US News is. Some of the stuff people assume is true on TLS is BS, and you never know if you are talking to a helpful Dean or somebody who is rigging the numbers.

Of course, I guess that and
every one of my other posts makes me a fucking idiot. Fine by me.

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Tanicius
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Re: U. of Illinois Law suspends Dean of Admissions

Postby Tanicius » Mon Nov 07, 2011 8:14 pm

Bildungsroman wrote:At the time he was posting on TLS there was no hint of this scandal that was brewing, nothing to indicate that there was anything amiss, and he offered a pretty responsive and candid body of advice to potential applicants that was unparalleled among admissions deans. It is the height of retardation and self-righteous hindsight to come in now and say "LOL LOOK AT THIS DOOD UR ALL RUHTARDS FOR HAVING LIKED HIM." Obviously we now know that he was a real piece of work, but at the time he was giving advice on TLS it was completely reasonable that people were fans of his.


Well said. Wasn't sure how to convey this without acting all indignant.




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