U. of Illinois Law suspends Dean of Admissions

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masochist
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Re: U. of Illinois Law suspends Dean of Admissions

Postby masochist » Sat Oct 01, 2011 11:27 am

vanwinkle wrote:Wouldn't an actual audit require going into individual student records? ... It doesn't sound like there's an exception for providing scores directly to the ABA.


I am pretty sure that FERPA allows accrediting bodies to view complete student files. Provided the numbers are in the files (and they would be), the ABA could get them. The APA, AMA, and specialty accrediting boards require production of entire student files as part of their reaccreditation procedures, and I can't think of a reason why the ABA would be any different.

LSAC can't do it because they don't they are not allowed direct access to files as an accrediting body and the schools can't disclose information about matriculation back to LSAC. Publishing a de-identified list is a possibility, but it depends upon the standards adopted by FERPA for identification. If they use the HIPAA standard for de-identification, then there is no chance of this being OK. Under HIPAA, data is only de-identified if nobody could possibly attach an identity to the data using unprotected information. The "nobody" in this standard includes the person whose data is theoretically de-identified. So if there is enough information provided for someone to figure out that what line of data represents them on the list, it isn't de-identified. LSAC number would pretty much kill this, but even the association between GPA and LSAT would likely be too identifiable. How many 180/2.74 are there in the US? If the answer is one, then the data is identifiable.

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dresden doll
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Re: U. of Illinois Law suspends Dean of Admissions

Postby dresden doll » Sat Oct 01, 2011 11:40 am

Holly Golightly wrote:
bjsesq wrote:
Confused by your concept of subtle.

Doesn't bls go to U of C now?


Exceedingly subtle.

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Sapientia
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Re: U. of Illinois Law suspends Dean of Admissions

Postby Sapientia » Sat Oct 01, 2011 12:23 pm

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Last edited by Sapientia on Wed Dec 07, 2011 9:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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romothesavior
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Re: U. of Illinois Law suspends Dean of Admissions

Postby romothesavior » Sat Oct 01, 2011 12:26 pm

Sapientia wrote:Hey so how many U of I students successfully transfer to Harvard/Yale/Stanford each year?

This scandal really has me down about U of I; I'm pretty sure I want out. I don't want to drop out, though, so I plan on scoring within the top 5% in order to keep my transfer options open.

Any info is helpful.

Thanks.

lol, you and everyone else duder.

Shoot for the moon, at least if you miss you'll land among the stars.

dreakol
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Re: U. of Illinois Law suspends Dean of Admissions

Postby dreakol » Sat Oct 01, 2011 12:39 pm

Sapientia wrote:Hey so how many U of I students successfully transfer to Harvard/Yale/Stanford each year?

This scandal really has me down about U of I; I'm pretty sure I want out. I don't want to drop out, though, so I plan on scoring within the top 5% in order to keep my transfer options open.

Any info is helpful.

Thanks.



180 would read again
Last edited by dreakol on Sat Oct 01, 2011 12:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Grizz
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Re: U. of Illinois Law suspends Dean of Admissions

Postby Grizz » Sat Oct 01, 2011 12:40 pm

Sapientia wrote:Hey so how many U of I students successfully transfer to Harvard/Yale/Stanford each year?

This scandal really has me down about U of I; I'm pretty sure I want out. I don't want to drop out, though, so I plan on scoring within the top 5% in order to keep my transfer options open.

Any info is helpful.

Thanks.

Lawl typical generation y retard

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Jack Smirks
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Re: U. of Illinois Law suspends Dean of Admissions

Postby Jack Smirks » Sat Oct 01, 2011 12:54 pm

Sapientia wrote:Hey so how many U of I students successfully transfer to Harvard/Yale/Stanford each year?

This scandal really has me down about U of I; I'm pretty sure I want out. I don't want to drop out, though, so I plan on scoring within the top 5% in order to keep my transfer options open.

Any info is helpful.

Thanks.

You went too big on the first post. Start with something small and let the troll build momentum.

Total Litigator
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Re: U. of Illinois Law suspends Dean of Admissions

Postby Total Litigator » Sat Oct 01, 2011 2:19 pm

To be perfectly honest, I can't really see why UIUC 1L's aren't going for the exit in droves. The new information means that a ton of people at UIUC should have received more scholarship money than they were given. In my mind if UIUC doesn't give out scholarships to their students based on the new official medians, I would go for the door.

Even if LSAC/ABA doesn't let dropped out students retake the LSAT (I'm not sure if your ineligible after you get your first grades come back or just after you enroll) at the very least students would be looking at more money at other schools with comprobable medians.

illini22
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Re: U. of Illinois Law suspends Dean of Admissions

Postby illini22 » Sat Oct 01, 2011 2:42 pm

poor 1Ls? what about the 2Ls. 1Ls are the ones with really low scores, the 2Ls are the ones who came to a school thinking that it will continue to attract good students and stay up on the rankings (we are the best class of U of I, 167, as originally posted). Also, 1Ls going for the door? lolzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz. GO, please do, better, drop out, perhaps that way the median will go up. Thinking that you will be top 5% so you can leave tells me that you are likely NOT going to be top 5%.

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Sapientia
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Re: U. of Illinois Law suspends Dean of Admissions

Postby Sapientia » Sat Oct 01, 2011 2:42 pm

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Last edited by Sapientia on Wed Dec 07, 2011 9:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Sapientia
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Re: U. of Illinois Law suspends Dean of Admissions

Postby Sapientia » Sat Oct 01, 2011 2:44 pm

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Last edited by Sapientia on Wed Dec 07, 2011 9:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Kabuo
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Re: U. of Illinois Law suspends Dean of Admissions

Postby Kabuo » Sat Oct 01, 2011 3:26 pm

Total Litigator wrote:To be perfectly honest, I can't really see why UIUC 1L's aren't going for the exit in droves. The new information means that a ton of people at UIUC should have received more scholarship money than they were given. In my mind if UIUC doesn't give out scholarships to their students based on the new official medians, I would go for the door.

Even if LSAC/ABA doesn't let dropped out students retake the LSAT (I'm not sure if your ineligible after you get your first grades come back or just after you enroll) at the very least students would be looking at more money at other schools with comprobable medians.


Had not even considered what this meant for scholarships. Wow. Does scholly money count as $ spent on students for purposes of US News? If it does, they might drop even more than we thought.

dreakol
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Re: U. of Illinois Law suspends Dean of Admissions

Postby dreakol » Sat Oct 01, 2011 3:49 pm

illini22 wrote:poor 1Ls? what about the 2Ls. 1Ls are the ones with really low scores, the 2Ls are the ones who came to a school thinking that it will continue to attract good students and stay up on the rankings (we are the best class of U of I, 167, as originally posted). Also, 1Ls going for the door? lolzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz. GO, please do, better, drop out, perhaps that way the median will go up. Thinking that you will be top 5% so you can leave tells me that you are likely NOT going to be top 5%.


what about the 1Ls with 168 plus? i feel bad for those doods.

are 2Ls looking down upon the 1Ls for their ttt lsat scores?

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Kilpatrick
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Re: U. of Illinois Law suspends Dean of Admissions

Postby Kilpatrick » Sat Oct 01, 2011 4:43 pm

dreakol wrote:
illini22 wrote:poor 1Ls? what about the 2Ls. 1Ls are the ones with really low scores, the 2Ls are the ones who came to a school thinking that it will continue to attract good students and stay up on the rankings (we are the best class of U of I, 167, as originally posted). Also, 1Ls going for the door? lolzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz. GO, please do, better, drop out, perhaps that way the median will go up. Thinking that you will be top 5% so you can leave tells me that you are likely NOT going to be top 5%.


what about the 1Ls with 168 plus? i feel bad for those doods.

are 2Ls looking down upon the 1Ls for their ttt lsat scores?


There are people from my class posting things about how we're the best class and shit. It's embarrassing.

phillipjg
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Re: U. of Illinois Law suspends Dean of Admissions

Postby phillipjg » Sat Oct 01, 2011 4:55 pm

I don't think the difference between this class and last year's is probably that big.

It's probably
2Ls: 51% 167s
1ls: 40% 167s

illini22
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Re: U. of Illinois Law suspends Dean of Admissions

Postby illini22 » Sun Oct 02, 2011 1:38 pm

Kilpatrick wrote:
dreakol wrote:
illini22 wrote:poor 1Ls? what about the 2Ls. 1Ls are the ones with really low scores, the 2Ls are the ones who came to a school thinking that it will continue to attract good students and stay up on the rankings (we are the best class of U of I, 167, as originally posted). Also, 1Ls going for the door? lolzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz. GO, please do, better, drop out, perhaps that way the median will go up. Thinking that you will be top 5% so you can leave tells me that you are likely NOT going to be top 5%.


what about the 1Ls with 168 plus? i feel bad for those doods.

are 2Ls looking down upon the 1Ls for their ttt lsat scores?


There are people from my class posting things about how we're the best class and shit. It's embarrassing.


no, it is not embarrassing. While we know that the difference is probably small [is not like the mean is 163, its just a median, meaning we could have 2 people with 167 that they dont have]; however, many 1Ls were talking about how they are "the best class" which the dean tells every class the first day of class. So give the 2Ls their 1 day of mocking them for telling them that. I actually met a few 1Ls that seemed kind of "i dont need your advice, im likely smarter than you" so it is a bit funny.

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Thirteen
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Re: U. of Illinois Law suspends Dean of Admissions

Postby Thirteen » Sun Oct 02, 2011 10:39 pm

Kilpatrick wrote:
dreakol wrote:
illini22 wrote:poor 1Ls? what about the 2Ls. 1Ls are the ones with really low scores, the 2Ls are the ones who came to a school thinking that it will continue to attract good students and stay up on the rankings (we are the best class of U of I, 167, as originally posted). Also, 1Ls going for the door? lolzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz. GO, please do, better, drop out, perhaps that way the median will go up. Thinking that you will be top 5% so you can leave tells me that you are likely NOT going to be top 5%.


what about the 1Ls with 168 plus? i feel bad for those doods.

are 2Ls looking down upon the 1Ls for their ttt lsat scores?


There are people from my class posting things about how we're the best class and shit. It's embarrassing.


Wow, that's kinda pathetic.

dreakol
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Re: U. of Illinois Law suspends Dean of Admissions

Postby dreakol » Sun Oct 02, 2011 11:34 pm

illini22 wrote:
Kilpatrick wrote:
dreakol wrote:
illini22 wrote:poor 1Ls? what about the 2Ls. 1Ls are the ones with really low scores, the 2Ls are the ones who came to a school thinking that it will continue to attract good students and stay up on the rankings (we are the best class of U of I, 167, as originally posted). Also, 1Ls going for the door? lolzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz. GO, please do, better, drop out, perhaps that way the median will go up. Thinking that you will be top 5% so you can leave tells me that you are likely NOT going to be top 5%.


what about the 1Ls with 168 plus? i feel bad for those doods.

are 2Ls looking down upon the 1Ls for their ttt lsat scores?


There are people from my class posting things about how we're the best class and shit. It's embarrassing.


no, it is not embarrassing. While we know that the difference is probably small [is not like the mean is 163, its just a median, meaning we could have 2 people with 167 that they dont have]; however, many 1Ls were talking about how they are "the best class" which the dean tells every class the first day of class. So give the 2Ls their 1 day of mocking them for telling them that. I actually met a few 1Ls that seemed kind of "i dont need your advice, im likely smarter than you" so it is a bit funny.


lol @ them. the ones you met were probably the ones with a 163 lsat.

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JCougar
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Re: U. of Illinois Law suspends Dean of Admissions

Postby JCougar » Sun Oct 02, 2011 11:40 pm

Bildungsroman wrote:Don't law schools submit their class profiles to employers to try and get them to recruit at their school? If so, I think it would be extremely naive to say that the relationship with at least some employers won't be negatively affected after several straight years of lying. Not just because of the numerical difference, but mostly because employers hate being lied to.


TITCR

Employers don't like being lied to.

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JusticeHarlan
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Re: U. of Illinois Law suspends Dean of Admissions

Postby JusticeHarlan » Wed Oct 12, 2011 4:18 pm

Probably worthy of its own thread (and forgive me if it already has one), but because the idea of auditing the numbers schools report came up ITT:

http://www.law.com/jsp/nlj/PubArticleNL ... slreturn=1

The Law School Admission Council may begin policing the Law School Admission Test scores and grade-point averages that law schools report annually to the American Bar Association. The move follows scandals in which law schools inflated the academic credentials of new students.

Council President Dan Bernstine said in a written statement on Oct. 11 that the organization was examining whether it could confirm the figures in a "meaningful way." The council administers the LSAT and maintains a central database that includes each law school applicant's undergraduate GPA.

keg411
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Re: U. of Illinois Law suspends Dean of Admissions

Postby keg411 » Wed Oct 12, 2011 6:18 pm

JusticeHarlan wrote:Probably worthy of its own thread (and forgive me if it already has one), but because the idea of auditing the numbers schools report came up ITT:

http://www.law.com/jsp/nlj/PubArticleNL ... slreturn=1

The Law School Admission Council may begin policing the Law School Admission Test scores and grade-point averages that law schools report annually to the American Bar Association. The move follows scandals in which law schools inflated the academic credentials of new students.

Council President Dan Bernstine said in a written statement on Oct. 11 that the organization was examining whether it could confirm the figures in a "meaningful way." The council administers the LSAT and maintains a central database that includes each law school applicant's undergraduate GPA.


LSAC >>>>>>>>>> ABA.

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emkay625
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Re: U. of Illinois Law suspends Dean of Admissions

Postby emkay625 » Wed Oct 12, 2011 6:49 pm

Here is my question about this: HOW did it happen?

Not the making up stuff, but the median. How does your median LSAT fall FOUR points in one year?! That drop is insane.

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romothesavior
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Re: U. of Illinois Law suspends Dean of Admissions

Postby romothesavior » Wed Oct 12, 2011 10:03 pm

emkay625 wrote:Here is my question about this: HOW did it happen?

Not the making up stuff, but the median. How does your median LSAT fall FOUR points in one year?! That drop is insane.

Pics and we'll tell you.

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emkay625
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Re: U. of Illinois Law suspends Dean of Admissions

Postby emkay625 » Wed Oct 12, 2011 10:55 pm

romothesavior wrote:
emkay625 wrote:Here is my question about this: HOW did it happen?

Not the making up stuff, but the median. How does your median LSAT fall FOUR points in one year?! That drop is insane.

Pics and we'll tell you.


I do not understand. Pics of what?

dreakol
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Re: U. of Illinois Law suspends Dean of Admissions

Postby dreakol » Wed Oct 12, 2011 10:58 pm

emkay625 wrote:
romothesavior wrote:
emkay625 wrote:Here is my question about this: HOW did it happen?

Not the making up stuff, but the median. How does your median LSAT fall FOUR points in one year?! That drop is insane.

Pics and we'll tell you.


I do not understand. Pics of what?


tyft




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