U. of Illinois Law suspends Dean of Admissions Forum

bjsesq · Post by **bjsesq** » Wed Sep 28, 2011 3:18 pm

Ok. I'm officially done white knighting for Pless. This many years of bad numbers indicate pure incompetency or just plain doctoring.

CanadianWolf · Post by **CanadianWolf** » Wed Sep 28, 2011 3:21 pm

Nevertheless, we don't know who, if anyone, applied pressure to inflate results. Also, can't just blame one individual when superiors left 4 consecutive years of misreporting unreported or even if undetected.

bjsesq · Post by **bjsesq** » Wed Sep 28, 2011 3:21 pm

CanadianWolf wrote:Nevertheless, we don't know who, if anyone, applied pressure to inflate results. Can't just blame one individual when superiors left 4 consecutive years of misreporting unreported.

I'm not. I'm certainly not defending him anymore, though.

CanadianWolf · Post by **CanadianWolf** » Wed Sep 28, 2011 3:31 pm

The good news is that Illinois had a healthy median LSAT the prior 3 years even though misreported. Competition from Indiana's scholarship program combined with decreased law school applications nationwide was too much for Illinois to bear in light of last year's US News rankings dip despite the highest LSAT median (167) ever for Illinois Law. What rankings drop would a 163 median LSAT cause ? To be so close to being a top 20 law school, then declining to #23 after the highest LSAT median ever & only a 20% admit rate, must have caused mild panic among the UIUC adcomms when faced with reporting a significant drop of the LSAT median to 163 &, probably, a higher rate of admission.

P.S. What was the admission rate for this past cycle ?

CanadianWolf · Post by **CanadianWolf** » Wed Sep 28, 2011 3:50 pm

Will be interesting to see what the Attorney General for the State of Illinois does, if anything, about this matter.

Post by **romothesavior** » Wed Sep 28, 2011 4:02 pm

Wow, pretty disappointing, although not all that surprising.

adammac17 · Post by **adammac17** » Wed Sep 28, 2011 4:23 pm

FYI, around the halls here at UIUC, the early betting line is an announcement of Dean Pless' resignation by the end of the week and Dean Smith heading out the door soon after. This release on the same day the ABA came to start an investigation is not a coincidence - the administration was sitting on these numbers, debating whether or not to release them, and the ABA coming called their hand.

tennisking88 · Post by **tennisking88** » Wed Sep 28, 2011 4:25 pm

adammac17 wrote:FYI, around the halls here at UIUC, the early betting line is an announcement of Dean Pless' resignation by the end of the week and Dean Smith heading out the door soon after. This release on the same day the ABA came to start an investigation is not a coincidence - the administration was sitting on these numbers, debating whether or not to release them, and the ABA coming called their hand.

How the mighty fall

MrAnon · Post by **MrAnon** » Wed Sep 28, 2011 4:27 pm

CanadianWolf wrote:Will be interesting to see what the Attorney General for the State of Illinois does, if anything, about this matter.

The AG? C'mon. Illinois students and grads were just made fools of. As long as they dont take any action---and they won't---too fearful--- nobody is going to step in and really do anything.

MBZags · Post by **MBZags** » Wed Sep 28, 2011 4:30 pm

Splendid.

blurbz · Post by **blurbz** » Wed Sep 28, 2011 4:33 pm

MBZags wrote:Splendid.

NancyBotwin · Post by **NancyBotwin** » Wed Sep 28, 2011 4:34 pm

adammac17 wrote:FYI, around the halls here at UIUC, the early betting line is an announcement of Dean Pless' resignation by the end of the week and Dean Smith heading out the door soon after. This release on the same day the ABA came to start an investigation is not a coincidence - the administration was sitting on these numbers, debating whether or not to release them, and the ABA coming called their hand.

Smith had better not leave.

Bildungsroman · Post by **Bildungsroman** » Wed Sep 28, 2011 4:35 pm

Maybe the ABA will grow some nuts and start more stringent verification on the numbers that schools submit.

NancyBotwin · Post by **NancyBotwin** » Wed Sep 28, 2011 4:36 pm

Bildungsroman wrote:Maybe the ABA will grow some nuts and start more stringent verification on the numbers that schools submit.

One can only hope.

adammac17 · Post by **adammac17** » Wed Sep 28, 2011 4:37 pm

NancyBotwin wrote:
adammac17 wrote:FYI, around the halls here at UIUC, the early betting line is an announcement of Dean Pless' resignation by the end of the week and Dean Smith heading out the door soon after. This release on the same day the ABA came to start an investigation is not a coincidence - the administration was sitting on these numbers, debating whether or not to release them, and the ABA coming called their hand.
Smith had better not leave.

I like Smith too Nancy, but this started the year before he came here (right?) and he was brought in to clean up after the blago issue. I just have hard time seeing how he is not going to get the ax for this and be forced to step down.

NancyBotwin · Post by **NancyBotwin** » Wed Sep 28, 2011 4:38 pm

adammac17 wrote:
NancyBotwin wrote:
adammac17 wrote:FYI, around the halls here at UIUC, the early betting line is an announcement of Dean Pless' resignation by the end of the week and Dean Smith heading out the door soon after. This release on the same day the ABA came to start an investigation is not a coincidence - the administration was sitting on these numbers, debating whether or not to release them, and the ABA coming called their hand.
Smith had better not leave.
I like Smith too Nancy, but this started the year before he came here (right?) and he was brought in to clean up after the blago issue. I just have hard time seeing how he is not going to get the ax for this and be forced to step down.

Thirteen · Post by **Thirteen** » Wed Sep 28, 2011 4:42 pm

adammac17 wrote:FYI, around the halls here at UIUC, the early betting line is an announcement of Dean Pless' resignation by the end of the week and Dean Smith heading out the door soon after. This release on the same day the ABA came to start an investigation is not a coincidence - the administration was sitting on these numbers, debating whether or not to release them, and the ABA coming called their hand.

CanadianWolf · Post by **CanadianWolf** » Wed Sep 28, 2011 4:45 pm

The State of Illinois, taxpayers & consumers were "made fools of". Consumer fraud, racketeering & conspiracy.

Sandro · Post by **Sandro** » Wed Sep 28, 2011 4:45 pm

rut rohhh...... if this was going on at "top" school imagine what's going on at schools nobody gives a shit about ?

The only way this could get better is if somehow Rod* Blagojevich(sp) was involved

MrAnon · Post by **MrAnon** » Wed Sep 28, 2011 4:48 pm

Bildungsroman wrote:Maybe the ABA will grow some nuts and start more stringent verification on the numbers that schools submit.

Why would they do this? They are selling a product that will continue to draw consumers even if a bunch of other schools are unveiled as liars.

MrAnon · Post by **MrAnon** » Wed Sep 28, 2011 4:51 pm

CanadianWolf wrote:The State of Illinois, taxpayers & consumers were "made fools of". Consumer fraud, racketeering & conspiracy.

I get your point, but really this is overblowing it. The students will still come to the school no matter what numbers are published. Students opinions of the school have changed overnight as result of this? Or because of a perceived drop in ranking in a magazine? I always thought this sort of chicanery was going on. Its been talked about for years that the employment numbers are made up at law schools. Why would they be honest about these numbers?

CanadianWolf · Post by **CanadianWolf** » Wed Sep 28, 2011 4:53 pm

Employment numbers are tough to verify; accepted & matriculated student LSAT scores & GPAs are known with certainty.
The State AG should act to keep the feds out.

Post by **romothesavior** » Wed Sep 28, 2011 4:53 pm

MrAnon wrote:
CanadianWolf wrote:The State of Illinois, taxpayers & consumers were "made fools of". Consumer fraud, racketeering & conspiracy.
I get your point, but really this is overblowing it. The students will still come to the school no matter what numbers are published. Students opinions of the school have changed overnight as result of this? Or because of a perceived drop in ranking in a magazine? I always thought this sort of chicanery was going on. Its been talked about for years that the employment numbers are made up at law schools. Why would they be honest about these numbers?

If you really don't think this information won't have any impact on the quality of students who matriculate, you're nuts. There are tons of people on TLS who have already openly wondered whether or not UIUC is a good choice at this time. I can tell you that I certainly don't regret turning them down, and I'm glad I'm not there now.

Kilpatrick · Post by **Kilpatrick** » Wed Sep 28, 2011 5:00 pm

Thirteen wrote:
adammac17 wrote:FYI, around the halls here at UIUC, the early betting line is an announcement of Dean Pless' resignation by the end of the week and Dean Smith heading out the door soon after. This release on the same day the ABA came to start an investigation is not a coincidence - the administration was sitting on these numbers, debating whether or not to release them, and the ABA coming called their hand.

Do you not like Smith? I've never heard anyone say anything bad about him so I'm just curious. He was my favorite professor ever.

09042014 · Post by **09042014** » Wed Sep 28, 2011 5:03 pm

Nightrunner wrote:In terms of admissions medians, that's a one year fuck up.

In terms of fraud...four straight years of various median inflation looks pretty terrible. Some might say conclusively terrible.

Agreed.

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