Confused at LSAC GPA

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coldshoulder
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Confused at LSAC GPA

Postby coldshoulder » Thu Sep 01, 2011 11:23 am

I am so beyond pissed. Apparently, my community college courses (two math classes taken in junior year of high school) dropped my GPA from a 3.7 to a 3.51. How the fuck is it possible that two courses dropped my GPA by that amount?

Fuck LSAC. Seriously considering doing grad school or business school now instead.

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JamMasterJ
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Re: Confused at LSAC GPA

Postby JamMasterJ » Thu Sep 01, 2011 11:24 am

coldshoulder wrote:I am so beyond pissed. Apparently, my community college courses (two math classes taken in junior year of high school) dropped my GPA from a 3.7 to a 3.51. How the fuck is it possible that two courses dropped my GPA by that amount?

Fuck LSAC. Seriously considering doing grad school or business school now instead.

Dude, everyone knows you're going to get a 180, so CCN is still there and you were'n above medians before.

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coldshoulder
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Re: Confused at LSAC GPA

Postby coldshoulder » Thu Sep 01, 2011 11:25 am

JamMasterJ wrote:
coldshoulder wrote:I am so beyond pissed. Apparently, my community college courses (two math classes taken in junior year of high school) dropped my GPA from a 3.7 to a 3.51. How the fuck is it possible that two courses dropped my GPA by that amount?

Fuck LSAC. Seriously considering doing grad school or business school now instead.

Dude, everyone knows you're going to get a 180, so CCN is still there and you were'n above medians before.


Haha I wish I was going to get a 180. Problem is now I'm below 25th's on GPA, even at some of the lower ranked schools I was hoping for a big scholly from.

Edit: Overstatement, however, below medians for many of those schools.

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JamMasterJ
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Re: Confused at LSAC GPA

Postby JamMasterJ » Thu Sep 01, 2011 11:30 am

I've always wondered what the difference is between being slightly above the 25th vs. slightly below it. I think I'm less than .05 below UChi's and Michigan's

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coldshoulder
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Re: Confused at LSAC GPA

Postby coldshoulder » Thu Sep 01, 2011 11:32 am

JamMasterJ wrote:I've always wondered what the difference is between being slightly above the 25th vs. slightly below it. I think I'm less than .05 below UChi's and Michigan's


True, it's hard to tell how much of a difference it makes. At least we hit that 3.5 cutoff though I guess.

I'll probably write a GPA addendum, though I don't know how much good it'll do.

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minnbills
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Re: Confused at LSAC GPA

Postby minnbills » Thu Sep 01, 2011 11:43 am

It sucks but just nail the LSAT and go from there.

I have two Cs on my record from my freshman year before I transferred that are going to eat my GPA. Drop it from a 3.6 to a 3.4 (If I'm lucky it will break the 3.39 barrier, not quite sure.)

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Bildungsroman
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Re: Confused at LSAC GPA

Postby Bildungsroman » Thu Sep 01, 2011 12:01 pm

coldshoulder wrote:Fuck LSAC. Seriously considering doing grad school or business school now instead.

This is probably a good signal that you should reconsider law school, if all it takes to discourage you this badly is a .2 UGPA drop.

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iiibbystar
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Re: Confused at LSAC GPA

Postby iiibbystar » Thu Sep 01, 2011 2:19 pm

Bildungsroman wrote:
coldshoulder wrote:Fuck LSAC. Seriously considering doing grad school or business school now instead.

This is probably a good signal that you should reconsider law school, if all it takes to discourage you this badly is a .2 UGPA drop.


That's exactly what I was thinking!

OP, why did the GPA drop surprise you so much? What were the two grades that you got in those classes?

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Re: Confused at LSAC GPA

Postby MumofCad » Thu Sep 01, 2011 2:41 pm

That sucks - I'm sorry for you.

I don't really want to make a tirade about this, but I do feel like high school students are not informed of how important these AP courses could be for their future. 2 classes at the age of 16 shouldn't cut a student from law school. I feel like this really favors those whose parents went through law school or those who are attending career-advising private schools.

My parents had an education college degree obtained on the GI bill and a high school diploma, respectively. I went to a failing school. No one was advising me that the 6 classes I apparently was jointly taking at my high school and college could be considered college level work. When I compare this to the kids I tutored at Georgetown Prep feeders while I was an undergrad, who could rattle off the median scores and GPAs of incoming Yale classes...it seems like the obscurity of this rule places certain types of students at a tremendous advantage. College can generally be the great equalizer because there are resources you can take advantage of and its really up to you. But in high school?! The majority of public high schools in the US have no such resources. My guidance counselor knew all about agriculture, nothing about law school. The rule should be amended to optionally include grades obtained at a college level before receiving a high diploma IMO. I feel for you.

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Br3v
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Re: Confused at LSAC GPA

Postby Br3v » Thu Sep 01, 2011 2:44 pm

MumofCad wrote:That sucks - I'm sorry for you.

I don't really want to make a tirade about this, but I do feel like high school students are not informed of how important these AP courses could be for their future. 2 classes at the age of 16 shouldn't cut a student from law school. I feel like this really favors those whose parents went through law school or those who are attending career-advising private schools.

My parents had an education college degree obtained on the GI bill and a high school diploma, respectively. I went to a failing school. No one was advising me that the 6 classes I apparently was jointly taking at my high school and college could be considered college level work. When I compare this to the kids I tutored at Georgetown Prep feeders while I was an undergrad, who could rattle off the median scores and GPAs of incoming Yale classes...it seems like the obscurity of this rule places certain types of students at a tremendous advantage. College can generally be the great equalizer because there are resources you can take advantage of and its really up to you. But in high school?! The majority of public high schools in the US have no such resources. My guidance counselor knew all about agriculture, nothing about law school. The rule should be amended to optionally include grades obtained at a college level before receiving a high diploma IMO. I feel for you.


AP classes do not count for your LSAC gpa do they?

CanadianWolf
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Re: Confused at LSAC GPA

Postby CanadianWolf » Thu Sep 01, 2011 2:48 pm

AP classes do not count for one's LSAC GPA, however, college classes taken while in high school do count.
Last edited by CanadianWolf on Thu Sep 01, 2011 2:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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minnbills
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Re: Confused at LSAC GPA

Postby minnbills » Thu Sep 01, 2011 2:48 pm

Br3v wrote:AP classes do not count for your LSAC gpa do they?


No, thank god. Community college courses taken in high school count.

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ThomasMN
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Re: Confused at LSAC GPA

Postby ThomasMN » Thu Sep 01, 2011 2:50 pm

MumofCad wrote:That sucks - I'm sorry for you.

I don't really want to make a tirade about this, but I do feel like high school students are not informed of how important these AP courses could be for their future. 2 classes at the age of 16 shouldn't cut a student from law school. I feel like this really favors those whose parents went through law school or those who are attending career-advising private schools.

My parents had an education college degree obtained on the GI bill and a high school diploma, respectively. I went to a failing school. No one was advising me that the 6 classes I apparently was jointly taking at my high school and college could be considered college level work. When I compare this to the kids I tutored at Georgetown Prep feeders while I was an undergrad, who could rattle off the median scores and GPAs of incoming Yale classes...it seems like the obscurity of this rule places certain types of students at a tremendous advantage. College can generally be the great equalizer because there are resources you can take advantage of and its really up to you. But in high school?! The majority of public high schools in the US have no such resources. My guidance counselor knew all about agriculture, nothing about law school. The rule should be amended to optionally include grades obtained at a college level before receiving a high diploma IMO. I feel for you.


Even more than that you should love the US News rankings process. If there wasn't such a focus on what the median GPA / LSAT was there wouldn't be quite the need to freak out about classes you took in high school. In a sense schools generally won't evaluate your application with a drop of common sense that the B or C you got in 10th grade has little to do with what kind of a student you are today because it's all about going up another spot.

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ThomasMN
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Re: Confused at LSAC GPA

Postby ThomasMN » Thu Sep 01, 2011 2:51 pm

minnbills wrote:
Br3v wrote:AP classes do not count for your LSAC gpa do they?


No, thank god. Community college courses taken in high school count.


It is a little funny how the PSEO kids get screwed over for that.

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coldshoulder
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Re: Confused at LSAC GPA

Postby coldshoulder » Thu Sep 01, 2011 3:13 pm

ThomasMN wrote:
minnbills wrote:
Br3v wrote:AP classes do not count for your LSAC gpa do they?


No, thank god. Community college courses taken in high school count.


It is a little funny how the PSEO kids get screwed over for that.


It doesn't make sense that community college courses count but AP courses don't. Both count for the same credit. So they'll take my C and D in math at cc classes in high school, but they won't take my 5's in a number of classes as A's towards my GPA?

The entire system is wrong. Those two math grades do not accurately represent my academic skills as they will pertain to law school, which is what LSAC is supposed to be measuring.

As to my severe opinion of the .2 drop, you all know that that GPA range is a very big deal in T20 admissions. I went from median to below 25th at many schools, which is pretty rough.

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minnbills
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Re: Confused at LSAC GPA

Postby minnbills » Thu Sep 01, 2011 3:15 pm

ThomasMN wrote:
minnbills wrote:
Br3v wrote:AP classes do not count for your LSAC gpa do they?


No, thank god. Community college courses taken in high school count.


It is a little funny how the PSEO kids get screwed over for that.


I feel bad for people who get screwed by classes they took in high school. I would be in a world of hurt if my AP classes from HS were counted.

On a similar note, I was re-calculating my LSAC GPA today and I think it should actually be 3.44, no nice! Can't imagine it would make a big difference since I'll still be well below median nearly everywhere I'm applying. I'd still rather have my 3.6 degree-granting GPA but oh well.

And +1 to CS above. This whole application system is poorly conceived.

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Re: Confused at LSAC GPA

Postby MumofCad » Thu Sep 01, 2011 3:16 pm

Br3v wrote:
AP classes do not count for your LSAC gpa do they?


Mine did because I was given dual credit at the local CC. It just depends on how your high school credits them. In Oregon, we have the option of taking the AP test for college credits or simply taking the credits at the local CC. I am sure I signed something at the time to make that happen, without considering whether I would actually ever use the credits (which I predominately did not) and certainly not realizing they would count toward my undergrad GPA one day.

I NEVER stepped foot at my local CC (well, I played in a grass volleyball tourney there one weekend, but that hardly counts). ALL of my AP courses counted toward my LSAC degree. It didn't matter. I had the same UG GPA as High School GPA.
Last edited by MumofCad on Thu Sep 01, 2011 3:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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coldshoulder
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Re: Confused at LSAC GPA

Postby coldshoulder » Thu Sep 01, 2011 3:18 pm

MumofCad wrote:
Br3v wrote:
AP classes do not count for your LSAC gpa do they?


Mine did because I was given dual credit at the local CC. It just depends on how your high school credits them. In Oregon, we have the option of taking the AP test for college credits or simply taking the credits at the local CC. I am sure I signed something at the time to make that happen, without considering whether I would actually ever use the credits (which I predominately did not) and certainly not realizing they would count toward my undergrad GPA one day.


This is the biggest problem. Students at the majority of schools are not told that these classes will count towards your GRAD school GPA in FOUR YEARS. In fact, I was promised by my counselors and teachers that the grades in these classes would never affect my university transcript. How in any way is this fair?

CanadianWolf
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Re: Confused at LSAC GPA

Postby CanadianWolf » Thu Sep 01, 2011 3:24 pm

Often colleges & universities grant course credit and/or distribution exemptions for high school AP courses, but the grades typically don't count. Many high school students enroll in college courses while still in high school & these grades do count in LSAC GPA calculations.

MumofCad
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Re: Confused at LSAC GPA

Postby MumofCad » Thu Sep 01, 2011 3:25 pm

coldshoulder wrote:
This is the biggest problem. Students at the majority of schools are not told that these classes will count towards your GRAD school GPA in FOUR YEARS. In fact, I was promised by my counselors and teachers that the grades in these classes would never affect my university transcript. How in any way is this fair?


Yes, I was told the same thing. That they would only effect my undergrad GPA if I chose to use them as transfer credits to get out of required classes......

and then LSAC requested my "unreported" CC transcript lol. Like I said, it didn't matter, but I totally feel for those who were punched in the gut by this.

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941law
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Re: Confused at LSAC GPA

Postby 941law » Fri Sep 09, 2011 2:03 pm

where do you find your gpa on their site (after your logged in obviously)? They have had all my transcripts for over a week.

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Bildungsroman
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Re: Confused at LSAC GPA

Postby Bildungsroman » Fri Sep 09, 2011 2:09 pm

941law wrote:where do you find your gpa on their site (after your logged in obviously)? They have had all my transcripts for over a week.

Hover over "Apply" tab, go down to "Credentials," click on "Transcripts." On the right-hand side of the page there should be a box titled "My Status." In that box should be a link titled "Academic Summary Report." Click on that and a window will pop up. Go to the bottom of this new window to the "Summary" box and look at the line titled "Cumulative GPA."

If the "My Status" box doesn't have a link yet to the Academic Summary Report then a report has not yet been generated; it takes a while for this to happen after they receive all transcripts.

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birdlaw117
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Re: Confused at LSAC GPA

Postby birdlaw117 » Fri Sep 09, 2011 2:12 pm

coldshoulder wrote:
MumofCad wrote:
Br3v wrote:
AP classes do not count for your LSAC gpa do they?


Mine did because I was given dual credit at the local CC. It just depends on how your high school credits them. In Oregon, we have the option of taking the AP test for college credits or simply taking the credits at the local CC. I am sure I signed something at the time to make that happen, without considering whether I would actually ever use the credits (which I predominately did not) and certainly not realizing they would count toward my undergrad GPA one day.


This is the biggest problem. Students at the majority of schools are not told that these classes will count towards your GRAD school GPA in FOUR YEARS. In fact, I was promised by my counselors and teachers that the grades in these classes would never affect my university transcript. How in any way is this fair?

First off, it only counts for the LSAC, not necessarily for other grad school applications. So don't go over-generalizing here.

Also, how about you suck it up and take responsibility for your actions? So you were a shitty student 5 years ago and you won't that to have zero impact on your application? These rules apply to everyone, they aren't there just to fuck you over, you special snowflake.

Also, AP classes are different from CC unless the process changed since I was in HS. You had to take the AP exam and then your college had the discretion of whether or not to give you credit. CC is a class at a college, rather than one at a HS. If you couldn't handle a CC class while in HS then you shouldn't have taken it.

Moral of the story: You were young and stupid. Take responsibility. Move on. Kill the LSAT.

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941law
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Re: Confused at LSAC GPA

Postby 941law » Fri Sep 09, 2011 2:59 pm

Bildungsroman wrote:
941law wrote:where do you find your gpa on their site (after your logged in obviously)? They have had all my transcripts for over a week.

Hover over "Apply" tab, go down to "Credentials," click on "Transcripts." On the right-hand side of the page there should be a box titled "My Status." In that box should be a link titled "Academic Summary Report." Click on that and a window will pop up. Go to the bottom of this new window to the "Summary" box and look at the line titled "Cumulative GPA."

If the "My Status" box doesn't have a link yet to the Academic Summary Report then a report has not yet been generated; it takes a while for this to happen after they receive all transcripts.


Thank you very much!

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coldshoulder
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Re: Confused at LSAC GPA

Postby coldshoulder » Fri Sep 09, 2011 5:11 pm

birdlaw117 wrote:
coldshoulder wrote:
MumofCad wrote:
Br3v wrote:
AP classes do not count for your LSAC gpa do they?


Mine did because I was given dual credit at the local CC. It just depends on how your high school credits them. In Oregon, we have the option of taking the AP test for college credits or simply taking the credits at the local CC. I am sure I signed something at the time to make that happen, without considering whether I would actually ever use the credits (which I predominately did not) and certainly not realizing they would count toward my undergrad GPA one day.


This is the biggest problem. Students at the majority of schools are not told that these classes will count towards your GRAD school GPA in FOUR YEARS. In fact, I was promised by my counselors and teachers that the grades in these classes would never affect my university transcript. How in any way is this fair?

First off, it only counts for the LSAC, not necessarily for other grad school applications. So don't go over-generalizing here.

Also, how about you suck it up and take responsibility for your actions? So you were a shitty student 5 years ago and you won't that to have zero impact on your application? These rules apply to everyone, they aren't there just to fuck you over, you special snowflake.

Also, AP classes are different from CC unless the process changed since I was in HS. You had to take the AP exam and then your college had the discretion of whether or not to give you credit. CC is a class at a college, rather than one at a HS. If you couldn't handle a CC class while in HS then you shouldn't have taken it.

Moral of the story: You were young and stupid. Take responsibility. Move on. Kill the LSAT.


Where I'm from, CC class was taken at high school. The classes were no more difficult than AP (actually easier) but I had no interest in mathematics and did not pay attention or even go to most of the classes. Yes, for my 16 year-old self, that was immature. But hell, how does my performance in Math 1050/1060 affect my future performance in law school? A large part of college should be the ability to start over and have your now adult life be the focus of future applications.

Moral of the story: You're older and still stupid. LSAC is very much to blame for this. I'm attempting to move on and kill the LSAT, but I should not have to be at this disadvantage.




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