Comparing Employment Stats

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90LawSchool
Posts: 65
Joined: Sat Feb 05, 2011 10:46 pm

Comparing Employment Stats

Postby 90LawSchool » Wed Aug 31, 2011 11:53 am

As I am beginning to apply to law schools, I want to compare the school's employment at graduation statistics. However, I have read (here and elsewhere) that the numbers published in the school's admissions material can be misleading.

I believe it was on TLS (although I cannot seem to find it by searching) that there was another way to more accurately compare employment after graduation statistics. It may have been on US News and World Report but I do not remember. Is there a more accurate source to look at to determine the true employment statistics for law schools?

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minnbills
Posts: 3153
Joined: Thu Sep 02, 2010 2:04 pm

Re: Comparing Employment Stats

Postby minnbills » Wed Aug 31, 2011 11:56 am

lawschooltransparency.com

go to the data clearinghouse

lawschoolROCKS22
Posts: 30
Joined: Mon Jun 21, 2010 7:45 pm

Re: Comparing Employment Stats

Postby lawschoolROCKS22 » Wed Aug 31, 2011 12:01 pm

This site probably has the best information available: http://www.lawschooltransparency.com/. If I were you, I would basically ignore everything that you see on the websites of the law schools that you are applying to, and mainly just look at LST.

Basically, all law schools (even highly ranked ones like Chicago, Columbia, and NYU) lie like hell in order to make students more likely to attend (and hence, more likely to pay big $$$ to the schools). --LinkRemoved--
http://insidethelawschoolscam.blogspot.com/

I realize that this is anecdotal, but I'm a 3L in the top 1/3 of my class at a top 6 law school and am struggling like hell to line up a full-time, non-temporary position that requires a JD for after graduation. HTH.

lawschoolROCKS22
Posts: 30
Joined: Mon Jun 21, 2010 7:45 pm

Re: Comparing Employment Stats

Postby lawschoolROCKS22 » Wed Aug 31, 2011 12:13 pm

Also, in case you really are serious and new to all of this, a few big things to be careful of:

-law schools count graduates working at jobs that do not require a JD as "employed" (i.e. dude flipping burgers at Burger King = "employed")
-law schools count graduates working at part-time jobs as "employed"
-law schools count graduates working in temporary positions (i.e. doing doc review on an hourly basis in sweatshop like conditions) as "employed"
-law schools count graduates working for them in temporary positions that will only last until the 9-month after graduation mark as "employed." Law schools hire their own graduates for these 9-month long "research assistant" jobs solely to cook their employment statistics for US News purposes.
-law schools do not count graduates that don't respond to their surveys as "unemployed." They simply don't factor those graduates into their employment statistics

Thus, while law schools aren't technically "lying" (in the narrowest sense of the word), they are being intentionally misleading in order to make prospective students think that a JD is a FAR more valuable degree than it actually is. Law school students will then take out federally guaranteed loans, law schools will get paid by the gubmint upfront, and students will struggle to pay back dat gubmit after graduating.

All of that said, a series of changes that may soon be implemented by the ABA may change the above. However, NALP got angry about these changes and sued the ABA over them.

TheZoid
Posts: 417
Joined: Mon Jun 27, 2011 11:07 pm

Re: Comparing Employment Stats

Postby TheZoid » Wed Aug 31, 2011 12:15 pm

lawschoolROCKS22 wrote:This site probably has the best information available: http://www.lawschooltransparency.com/. If I were you, I would basically ignore everything that you see on the websites of the law schools that you are applying to, and mainly just look at LST.

Basically, all law schools (even highly ranked ones like Chicago, Columbia, and NYU) lie like hell in order to make students more likely to attend (and hence, more likely to pay big $$$ to the schools). --LinkRemoved--
http://insidethelawschoolscam.blogspot.com/

I realize that this is anecdotal, but I'm a 3L in the top 1/3 of my class at a top 6 law school and am struggling like hell to line up a full-time, non-temporary position that requires a JD for after graduation.
HTH.


How common is this scenario? Aren't the T-6 placing like 70% into NLJ250? And the lower half of the T-14 like 40-45%?

lawschoolROCKS22
Posts: 30
Joined: Mon Jun 21, 2010 7:45 pm

Re: Comparing Employment Stats

Postby lawschoolROCKS22 » Wed Aug 31, 2011 12:18 pm

TheZoid wrote:
lawschoolROCKS22 wrote:This site probably has the best information available: http://www.lawschooltransparency.com/. If I were you, I would basically ignore everything that you see on the websites of the law schools that you are applying to, and mainly just look at LST.

Basically, all law schools (even highly ranked ones like Chicago, Columbia, and NYU) lie like hell in order to make students more likely to attend (and hence, more likely to pay big $$$ to the schools). --LinkRemoved--
http://insidethelawschoolscam.blogspot.com/

I realize that this is anecdotal, but I'm a 3L in the top 1/3 of my class at a top 6 law school and am struggling like hell to line up a full-time, non-temporary position that requires a JD for after graduation.
HTH.


How common is this scenario? Aren't the T-6 placing like 70% into NLJ250? And the lower half of the T-14 like 40-45%?


More common than you would think, but I'm definitely still a bit of an outlier. Most people in the top 1/3 at top 6 schools do really well (and I guess that I could still potentially end up getting a good clerkship or something). However, people outside of the top 1/3 at top 6 schools generally have to hustle like crazy right now, and you have no way of knowing that you'll be in the top 1/3 of your class until after you get your first semester grades back. Once you drop out of the top 1/3, employers care a lot less about grades, and whether you get a good job is basically a coin toss (maybe not 100% random but damn close).

anstone1988
Posts: 100
Joined: Thu Mar 17, 2011 6:04 pm

Re: Comparing Employment Stats

Postby anstone1988 » Wed Aug 31, 2011 1:21 pm

lawschoolROCKS22 wrote:
TheZoid wrote:
lawschoolROCKS22 wrote:This site probably has the best information available: http://www.lawschooltransparency.com/. If I were you, I would basically ignore everything that you see on the websites of the law schools that you are applying to, and mainly just look at LST.

Basically, all law schools (even highly ranked ones like Chicago, Columbia, and NYU) lie like hell in order to make students more likely to attend (and hence, more likely to pay big $$$ to the schools). --LinkRemoved--
http://insidethelawschoolscam.blogspot.com/

I realize that this is anecdotal, but I'm a 3L in the top 1/3 of my class at a top 6 law school and am struggling like hell to line up a full-time, non-temporary position that requires a JD for after graduation.
HTH.


How common is this scenario? Aren't the T-6 placing like 70% into NLJ250? And the lower half of the T-14 like 40-45%?


More common than you would think, but I'm definitely still a bit of an outlier. Most people in the top 1/3 at top 6 schools do really well (and I guess that I could still potentially end up getting a good clerkship or something). However, people outside of the top 1/3 at top 6 schools generally have to hustle like crazy right now, and you have no way of knowing that you'll be in the top 1/3 of your class until after you get your first semester grades back. Once you drop out of the top 1/3, employers care a lot less about grades, and whether you get a good job is basically a coin toss (maybe not 100% random but damn close).


Are you an international student?

lawschoolROCKS22
Posts: 30
Joined: Mon Jun 21, 2010 7:45 pm

Re: Comparing Employment Stats

Postby lawschoolROCKS22 » Wed Aug 31, 2011 2:10 pm

anstone1988 wrote:
lawschoolROCKS22 wrote:
TheZoid wrote:
lawschoolROCKS22 wrote:This site probably has the best information available: http://www.lawschooltransparency.com/. If I were you, I would basically ignore everything that you see on the websites of the law schools that you are applying to, and mainly just look at LST.

Basically, all law schools (even highly ranked ones like Chicago, Columbia, and NYU) lie like hell in order to make students more likely to attend (and hence, more likely to pay big $$$ to the schools). --LinkRemoved--
http://insidethelawschoolscam.blogspot.com/

I realize that this is anecdotal, but I'm a 3L in the top 1/3 of my class at a top 6 law school and am struggling like hell to line up a full-time, non-temporary position that requires a JD for after graduation.
HTH.


How common is this scenario? Aren't the T-6 placing like 70% into NLJ250? And the lower half of the T-14 like 40-45%?


More common than you would think, but I'm definitely still a bit of an outlier. Most people in the top 1/3 at top 6 schools do really well (and I guess that I could still potentially end up getting a good clerkship or something). However, people outside of the top 1/3 at top 6 schools generally have to hustle like crazy right now, and you have no way of knowing that you'll be in the top 1/3 of your class until after you get your first semester grades back. Once you drop out of the top 1/3, employers care a lot less about grades, and whether you get a good job is basically a coin toss (maybe not 100% random but damn close).


Are you an international student?


no




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