STUDENT DEBT: America's Next Bubble?

(Applications Advice, Letters of Recommendation . . . )
User avatar
MTal
Posts: 854
Joined: Tue Dec 11, 2007 6:47 pm

STUDENT DEBT: America's Next Bubble?

Postby MTal » Sat Aug 20, 2011 12:27 am


User avatar
buckilaw
Posts: 840
Joined: Fri May 07, 2010 1:27 am

Re: STUDENT DEBT: America's Next Bubble?

Postby buckilaw » Sat Aug 20, 2011 12:31 am

TLS's most credible poster posting from a credible source. Must read.

It probably is the next bubble.

User avatar
IAFG
Posts: 6665
Joined: Mon Jun 15, 2009 1:26 pm

Re: STUDENT DEBT: America's Next Bubble?

Postby IAFG » Sat Aug 20, 2011 12:44 am

Meh. It can't really de-rail the economy the way the housing bubble did. It will just be a major Federal budget headache.

User avatar
dr123
Posts: 3503
Joined: Tue Jan 04, 2011 2:38 am

Re: STUDENT DEBT: America's Next Bubble?

Postby dr123 » Sat Aug 20, 2011 1:23 am

Law School Admissions Forum

User avatar
MTal
Posts: 854
Joined: Tue Dec 11, 2007 6:47 pm

Re: STUDENT DEBT: America's Next Bubble?

Postby MTal » Sat Aug 20, 2011 11:29 am

IAFG wrote:Meh. It can't really de-rail the economy the way the housing bubble did. It will just be a major Federal budget headache.


It can and it will. An entire generation will spend most of their working lives under a crushing burden of debt, unable to afford things that the previous generation took for granted like buying a house/getting married/having children, etc...

User avatar
Aberzombie1892
Posts: 1907
Joined: Sun Mar 29, 2009 10:56 am

Re: STUDENT DEBT: America's Next Bubble?

Postby Aberzombie1892 » Sat Aug 20, 2011 11:36 am

MTal wrote:
IAFG wrote:Meh. It can't really de-rail the economy the way the housing bubble did. It will just be a major Federal budget headache.


It can and it will. An entire generation will spend most of their working lives under a crushing burden of debt, unable to afford things that the previous generation took for granted like buying a house/getting married/having children, etc...


I would be concerned about that, but modern Americans:
1. Save negative 2% of their income
2. Generally don't concern themselves about jobs/stability before having children
3. Generally don't concern themselves about what they can and can't afford when they buy things (See 1)

Americans, generally speaking, are retarded. I'm more concerned about how educated people generally have 2.X children, and economically disadvantaged people have like 5+. That, my friends, will sooner or later create a crisis.

User avatar
Kabuo
Posts: 1114
Joined: Tue Aug 31, 2010 8:53 am

Re: STUDENT DEBT: America's Next Bubble?

Postby Kabuo » Sat Aug 20, 2011 11:50 am

Aberzombie1892 wrote:
MTal wrote:
IAFG wrote:Meh. It can't really de-rail the economy the way the housing bubble did. It will just be a major Federal budget headache.


It can and it will. An entire generation will spend most of their working lives under a crushing burden of debt, unable to afford things that the previous generation took for granted like buying a house/getting married/having children, etc...


I would be concerned about that, but modern Americans:
1. Save negative 2% of their income
2. Generally don't concern themselves about jobs/stability before having children
3. Generally don't concern themselves about what they can and can't afford when they buy things (See 1)

Americans, generally speaking, are retarded. I'm more concerned about how educated people generally have 2.X children, and economically disadvantaged people have like 5+. That, my friends, will sooner or later create a crisis.


How does this work as a pickup line?

User avatar
IAFG
Posts: 6665
Joined: Mon Jun 15, 2009 1:26 pm

Re: STUDENT DEBT: America's Next Bubble?

Postby IAFG » Sat Aug 20, 2011 12:26 pm

Aberzombie1892 wrote:
MTal wrote:
IAFG wrote:Meh. It can't really de-rail the economy the way the housing bubble did. It will just be a major Federal budget headache.


It can and it will. An entire generation will spend most of their working lives under a crushing burden of debt, unable to afford things that the previous generation took for granted like buying a house/getting married/having children, etc...


I would be concerned about that, but modern Americans:
1. Save negative 2% of their income
2. Generally don't concern themselves about jobs/stability before having children
3. Generally don't concern themselves about what they can and can't afford when they buy things (See 1)

Americans, generally speaking, are retarded. I'm more concerned about how educated people generally have 2.X children, and economically disadvantaged people have like 5+. That, my friends, will sooner or later create a crisis.

Hasn't that always been the pattern though? Thinkers/scholars/the wealthy haven't always avoided huge families?

User avatar
IAFG
Posts: 6665
Joined: Mon Jun 15, 2009 1:26 pm

Re: STUDENT DEBT: America's Next Bubble?

Postby IAFG » Sat Aug 20, 2011 12:28 pm

MTal wrote:
IAFG wrote:Meh. It can't really de-rail the economy the way the housing bubble did. It will just be a major Federal budget headache.


It can and it will. An entire generation will spend most of their working lives under a crushing burden of debt, unable to afford things that the previous generation took for granted like buying a house/getting married/having children, etc...

A little inflation could ease the pain. Even absent that it is only life-ruining at outlier debt levels, and people who are that bad with money and planning for the future were probably going to find a way to financially ruin themselves anyway.

User avatar
Deuce
Posts: 1048
Joined: Fri Jun 25, 2010 11:12 am

Re: STUDENT DEBT: America's Next Bubble?

Postby Deuce » Sat Aug 20, 2011 12:39 pm

If everyone just worked in retail and made manager within 5 years this would be a non issue

User avatar
Hawkeye Pierce
Posts: 1261
Joined: Tue Sep 21, 2010 12:18 am

Re: STUDENT DEBT: America's Next Bubble?

Postby Hawkeye Pierce » Sat Aug 20, 2011 12:42 pm

Deuce wrote:If everyone just worked in retail and made manager within 5 years this would be a non issue


:lol: :lol:

+1

acapulco980
Posts: 11
Joined: Tue Aug 09, 2011 11:52 am

Re: STUDENT DEBT: America's Next Bubble?

Postby acapulco980 » Sat Aug 20, 2011 12:45 pm

Most of the national debt is made up of Medicaid, Medicare, and Social Security so I doubt the student debt crisis will be of much to worry about. However, in the long run, student debt limits one's economic choices (mortgage/rent, used car/new car, etc.,) which might stall overall economic growth and leave America in the unemployment rut it's in.

Another point to consider is that employers will likely still use the bachelor's as a screening device. This is problematic because everyone in America is born thinking they can become "what they want" when the truth is most people's fate is decided by who their parents are and what they do. Thus, your average joe still will unlikely be able to consider the increasingly bad ROI on a college education and graduate with horrible debt and no job prospects.

Solution? Truly ask yourself if an education can help accomplish your goals and also realize that in life there are no certainties. As David Hume once said, "He is happy, whose circumstances suit his temper; but he is more excellent, who can suit his temper to any circumstances."

Edit: If you want to become a IB, consulting, work in national politics, or academia, the Ivy League is a must. If you want a regular job, the cheapest school possible in the region you want to work in is key; networking will be what sets you apart. If you want to become an artist, musician, or something creative for fuck's sake don't go to art school, the people I know even from the most prestigious art schools have a lot of debt and no job prospects (minus designers).
Last edited by acapulco980 on Sat Aug 20, 2011 12:57 pm, edited 2 times in total.

User avatar
MTal
Posts: 854
Joined: Tue Dec 11, 2007 6:47 pm

Re: STUDENT DEBT: America's Next Bubble?

Postby MTal » Sat Aug 20, 2011 12:45 pm

Deuce wrote:If everyone just worked in retail and made manager within 5 years this would be a non issue


As far as the student loan debt, if everyone worked in retail, you would be right.

User avatar
Deuce
Posts: 1048
Joined: Fri Jun 25, 2010 11:12 am

Re: STUDENT DEBT: America's Next Bubble?

Postby Deuce » Sat Aug 20, 2011 12:54 pm

MTal wrote:
Deuce wrote:If everyone just worked in retail and made manager within 5 years this would be a non issue


As far as the student loan debt, if everyone worked in retail, you would be right.


I'm with you brother, I just hear a jd is highly transferrable so I should get one fiest

TheFactor
Posts: 789
Joined: Wed Feb 23, 2011 3:12 pm

Re: STUDENT DEBT: America's Next Bubble?

Postby TheFactor » Sat Aug 20, 2011 1:14 pm

acapulco980 wrote:Most of the national debt is made up of Medicaid, Medicare, and Social Security so I doubt the student debt crisis will be of much to worry about. However, in the long run, student debt limits one's economic choices (mortgage/rent, used car/new car, etc.,) which might stall overall economic growth and leave America in the unemployment rut it's in.

Another point to consider is that employers will likely still use the bachelor's as a screening device. This is problematic because everyone in America is born thinking they can become "what they want" when the truth is most people's fate is decided by who their parents are and what they do. Thus, your average joe still will unlikely be able to consider the increasingly bad ROI on a college education and graduate with horrible debt and no job prospects.

Solution? Truly ask yourself if an education can help accomplish your goals and also realize that in life there are no certainties. As David Hume once said, "He is happy, whose circumstances suit his temper; but he is more excellent, who can suit his temper to any circumstances."

Edit: If you want to become a IB, consulting, work in national politics, or academia, the Ivy League is a must. If you want a regular job, the cheapest school possible in the region you want to work in is key; networking will be what sets you apart. If you want to become an artist, musician, or something creative for fuck's sake don't go to art school, the people I know even from the most prestigious art schools have a lot of debt and no job prospects (minus designers).

lol

User avatar
Hawkeye Pierce
Posts: 1261
Joined: Tue Sep 21, 2010 12:18 am

Re: STUDENT DEBT: America's Next Bubble?

Postby Hawkeye Pierce » Sat Aug 20, 2011 1:45 pm

MTal wrote:
Deuce wrote:If everyone just worked in retail and made manager within 5 years this would be a non issue


As far as the student loan debt, if everyone worked in retail, you would be right.


We could also solve the problem by eliminating colleges altogether.

User avatar
FeelTheHeat
Posts: 5203
Joined: Tue Jan 18, 2011 2:32 am

Re: STUDENT DEBT: America's Next Bubble?

Postby FeelTheHeat » Sat Aug 20, 2011 1:48 pm

Hawkeye Pierce wrote:
MTal wrote:
Deuce wrote:If everyone just worked in retail and made manager within 5 years this would be a non issue


As far as the student loan debt, if everyone worked in retail, you would be right.


We could also solve the problem by eliminating colleges altogether.


Why not education while we're at it? That would definitely help our budget deficit

User avatar
MTal
Posts: 854
Joined: Tue Dec 11, 2007 6:47 pm

Re: STUDENT DEBT: America's Next Bubble?

Postby MTal » Sat Aug 20, 2011 6:27 pm

FeelTheHeat wrote: Why not education while we're at it? That would definitely help our budget deficit


God you are a retard. It's not education that is the problem, it's the government subsidization of it which is artificially inflating demand and prices which is at the root of the distortion, not education itself.

User avatar
soj
Posts: 7735
Joined: Sat Jan 16, 2010 11:10 pm

Re: STUDENT DEBT: America's Next Bubble?

Postby soj » Sat Aug 20, 2011 6:32 pm

MTal wrote:
FeelTheHeat wrote: Why not education while we're at it? That would definitely help our budget deficit


God you are a retard. It's not education that is the problem, it's the government subsidization of it which is artificially inflating demand and prices which is at the root of the distortion, not education itself.

Image

User avatar
monarchylover
Posts: 199
Joined: Wed May 11, 2011 5:17 pm

Re: STUDENT DEBT: America's Next Bubble?

Postby monarchylover » Sat Aug 20, 2011 6:58 pm

I don't really see how it is comparable to the housing bubble... They can't discharge it in bankruptcy. People are not going to strip their student loans down to the studs and ride to there parents house. It will not cause the abandonment of entire towns etc. I mean I think it could be a bubble if people off themselves without enough coverage in mass suicides but I really don't even see it then anywhere comparable to the housing bubble.

User avatar
monarchylover
Posts: 199
Joined: Wed May 11, 2011 5:17 pm

Re: STUDENT DEBT: America's Next Bubble?

Postby monarchylover » Sat Aug 20, 2011 7:01 pm

Also for instance the most a target sales associate can qualify for is what 200k in student loans unlike the housing bubble where the same target employee could finagle themselves into a $600k mortgage with a 5 year arm that will jump to 21% apr

User avatar
ThomasMN
Posts: 300
Joined: Sun Sep 05, 2010 3:38 pm

Re: STUDENT DEBT: America's Next Bubble?

Postby ThomasMN » Sat Aug 20, 2011 7:09 pm

The funny thing is that if we just had a real national college system rather than the hodgepodge of state schools and private schools that we have it would not be as bad as it is right now. My cousin in Germany got her degree for free. I doubt it cost the German government nearly as much to educate her as it does the American government to finance a kid through school.

I think the real problem is that we do make such a big deal out of rankings, fancy buildings, and lay prestige when it comes to college. We care more about where you received an education rather than the fact that you received one. So many people happily shell out tens of thousands of dollars to go to a school ranked just a little bit better than taking a full ride at a respectable school. To be honest though, Americans tend to be terrible consumers when it comes to making good economic choices.

User avatar
dr123
Posts: 3503
Joined: Tue Jan 04, 2011 2:38 am

Re: STUDENT DEBT: America's Next Bubble?

Postby dr123 » Sat Aug 20, 2011 7:11 pm

WTF does this have to do with LS admissions?

User avatar
Tiago Splitter
Posts: 15475
Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2011 1:20 am

Re: STUDENT DEBT: America's Next Bubble?

Postby Tiago Splitter » Sat Aug 20, 2011 7:14 pm

ThomasMN wrote: To be honest though, Americans tend to be terrible consumers when it comes to making good economic choices.


Not a surprising quote from someone who thinks the government should make our choices for us.

User avatar
Samara
Posts: 3245
Joined: Wed May 11, 2011 4:26 pm

Re: STUDENT DEBT: America's Next Bubble?

Postby Samara » Sat Aug 20, 2011 7:16 pm

MTal wrote:
FeelTheHeat wrote: Why not education while we're at it? That would definitely help our budget deficit


God you are a retard. It's not education that is the problem, it's the government subsidization of it which is artificially inflating demand and prices which is at the root of the distortion, not education itself.

You know, if you're going to act like a know-it-all asshole about this issue, you could at least get the basic economics of it right. The government backing of student loans artificially increases the supply of higher education, not demand. This is why we have seen an expansion in the number of law schools specifically and for-profit/"non-profit" schools generally. It's the misrepresentation of employment statistics that artificially increases the demand for JDs. Normally, an increase in supply and an increase in demand would mean that prices remain stable. However, because of a dwindling of "substitute goods" for jobs requiring higher education (such as manufacturing jobs) and the high price inelasticity of demand for a JD, the price of a JD has increased much more quickly than inflation while consumption has also increased. The big problem then is that the number of people paying for a JD is far greater than the supply of JD-requiring jobs, which means that lots of people are saddled with debt they can't repay.

Elimination of government subsidies would not be the panacea you think it would be. It would decrease supply, but the high demand and high inelasticity would still be there. Plus, people would still acquire massive loans, just at increased costs through the private sector, further widening the gap between the haves and have-nots. There would still be too many people earning JDs. Probably the only feasible solution is to mimic medical schools and artificially restrict the supply by limiting the number of law schools and size of classes, so that the number of graduates produced is close to the supply of legal jobs. Greater transparency in employment statistics would help to decrease demand, but likely not by nearly enough to solve the problem.




Return to “Law School Admissions Forum”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot] and 5 guests