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 Post subject: 2.6 GPA - Possible to get into ANY Law School?
PostPosted: Sun Aug 14, 2011 1:01 pm 
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Got off to a rough start in Undergrad, dug myself into a hole I couldn't get out of. However, my grades improved from Freshman to Senior year. I ended up with a 2.6 from a Top 10 regional private school with a B.S. in Criminal Justice.

Currently attending graduate school for a M.A. in CJ.

Will my grad school GPA have any effect on my application to law schools?

Would I have a chance to get into any law school, any ranking, with a 2.6 undergrad GPA? Could a high LSAT score redeem myself?

I understand LSAT will factor in. What range would my LSAT score need to be in to in order to get into a law school, and what would be my highest possible option in terms of ranking or tier?

Upon reading other threads, I guess I should add that I am Hispanic as well.


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 Post subject: Re: 2.6 GPA - Possible to get into ANY Law School?
PostPosted: Sun Aug 14, 2011 1:09 pm 
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Grad school grades are a soft, and won't change your GPA as far as law schools are concerned.

Before I can give you estimates on LSAT and schools though, I need to know if you are Mexican American, or Puerto Rican. Any other kind of hispanic is, unfortunately, not considered URM.


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 Post subject: Re: 2.6 GPA - Possible to get into ANY Law School?
PostPosted: Sun Aug 14, 2011 1:11 pm 
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spleenworship wrote:
Grad school grades are a soft, and won't change your GPA as far as law schools are concerned.

Before I can give you estimates on LSAT and schools though, I need to know if you are Mexican American, or Puerto Rican. Any other kind of hispanic is, unfortunately, not considered URM.


Thank you for your help.

I am Cuban American.

Not sure what acronym URM means.


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 Post subject: Re: 2.6 GPA - Possible to get into ANY Law School?
PostPosted: Sun Aug 14, 2011 1:16 pm 
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Donnis wrote:
Got off to a rough start in Undergrad, dug myself into a hole I couldn't get out of. However, my grades improved from Freshman to Senior year. I ended up with a 2.6 from a Top 10 regional private school with a B.S. in Criminal Justice.

Currently attending graduate school for a M.A. in CJ.

Will my grad school GPA have any effect on my application to law schools?

Would I have a chance to get into any law school, any ranking, with a 2.6 undergrad GPA? Could a high LSAT score redeem myself?

I understand LSAT will factor in. What range would my LSAT score need to be in to in order to get into a law school, and what would be my highest possible option in terms of ranking or tier?

Upon reading other threads, I guess I should add that I am Hispanic as well.


Hispanic really helps. URM's get a big boost. Make sure to note that on all your applications.

Your LSAC GPA will probably be slightly different than your undergrad GPA. LSAC standardizes everything by taking your letter grades and making them their own number rubric. The number rubric from your old school is ignored. Ex: At my school a B- and B+ are 2.7 and 3.3. The LSAC has a different number for a B-.

Note your upward trend. Schools like to see that.

HOWEVER, your 2.6 puts you out of reach of most of the T14. Even a 170+ LSAT would probably not be enough to get into the T6. If you do get a 170+ throw some applications towards the T6 because you may get in due to your URM status.

Realistically, you're going to need a 160+ to have a reasonable shot at the top 100 schools. Your GPA is just too low. Look for schools that are splitter friendly, want high LSAT scores, and readily accept URM's. The higher your score the better the chance you have. A 160+ isn't something you just pull out of a hat either. You have to work for it.

When applying try to apply to schools where your LSAT is above their median and, preferably, above their 75th percentile.

You have an odd case because you have the potential to be a splitter and are URM. Lawschoolpredictor becomes less reliable the more extreme your splitter status.


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 Post subject: Re: 2.6 GPA - Possible to get into ANY Law School?
PostPosted: Sun Aug 14, 2011 1:20 pm 
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To answer your original question: You will need ~155 LSAT to at least have a decent shot at a T4. The higher your LSAT the more you will have to determine whether you want to go to a lower ranked school with cash or a higher ranked school with debt. Though why you would go to a T4 without at least a large scholarship is beyond me :roll:


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 Post subject: Re: 2.6 GPA - Possible to get into ANY Law School?
PostPosted: Sun Aug 14, 2011 1:23 pm 
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You can definitely get into law schools still. Its a lot easier to get into law school than people depict. The quality of the law school is the question.

A 165 should put you into the T2.

Cubans Americans are not URMs.

Good Luck.


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 Post subject: Re: 2.6 GPA - Possible to get into ANY Law School?
PostPosted: Sun Aug 14, 2011 1:30 pm 
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bport hopeful wrote:
You can definitely get into law schools still. Its a lot easier to get into law school than people depict. The quality of the law school is the question.

A 165 should put you into the T2.

Cubans Americans are not URMs.

Good Luck.


+1 to all of this.

If you can get in the 170s you can get some T1s too.

T14 is likely out of reach except possibly Northwestern if you have work experience and get above a 170.


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 Post subject: Re: 2.6 GPA - Possible to get into ANY Law School?
PostPosted: Sun Aug 14, 2011 1:48 pm 
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Yes, it is possible to get admitted to law schools with a GPA of 2.6. Unfortunately, your options are limited. Much depends upon your LSAT score. Criminal Justice majors tend to score lowest among all majors on the LSAT.


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 Post subject: Re: 2.6 GPA - Possible to get into ANY Law School?
PostPosted: Sun Aug 14, 2011 1:53 pm 
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To be admitted to Tier Four (unranked) law schools, you will probably need an LSAT score around 152. These law schools may not be worth attending unless you are willing to go into solo practice or into an office sharing arrangement.

Tier Three law schools should call for an LSAT score in the high 150s.

Tier Two law schools will be wary of your abilities unless you score at least a 158 on the LSAT.

Tier One law school admittance is unlikely with a 2.6 GPA in criminal justice without a convincing GPA addendum & an LSAT score above 162, in my opinion.

Of course, nothing is written in stone. This is just my best guess.

P.S. Typically, one's major doesn't affect law school admissions, but your case is different due to a very low GPA in a very easy major course of study.


Last edited by CanadianWolf on Sun Aug 14, 2011 1:59 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: 2.6 GPA - Possible to get into ANY Law School?
PostPosted: Sun Aug 14, 2011 1:58 pm 
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CanadianWolf wrote:
To be admitted to Tier Four (unranked) law schools, you will probably need an LSAT score around 152. These law schools may not be worth attending unless you are willing to go into solo practice or into an office sharing arrangement.
Tier Three law schools should call for an LSAT score in the high 150s.
Tier Two law schools will be wary of your abilities unless you score at least a 158 on the LSAT.
Tier One law school admittance is unlikely with a 2.6 GPA in criminal justice without a convincing GPA addendum & an LSAT score above 162, in my opinion.

This is a little optimistic I think.


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 Post subject: Re: 2.6 GPA - Possible to get into ANY Law School?
PostPosted: Sun Aug 14, 2011 2:00 pm 
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Hard to say because the number of law school applicants may decrease (again) this year while the number of law schools expand. But, absent any serious negative such as a felony conviction, there are law schools that will take OP's money.


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 Post subject: Re: 2.6 GPA - Possible to get into ANY Law School?
PostPosted: Sun Aug 14, 2011 2:04 pm 
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bport hopeful wrote:
You can definitely get into law schools still. Its a lot easier to get into law school than people depict. The quality of the law school is the question.

A 165 should put you into the T2.

Cubans Americans are not URMs.

Good Luck.


+1

Sorry to hear Cubans aren't counted as URMs. This makes T14 schools almost impossible to get into (or even most of the T1 for that matter.)


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 Post subject: Re: 2.6 GPA - Possible to get into ANY Law School?
PostPosted: Sun Aug 14, 2011 2:06 pm 
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I do agree that acceptance into a Tier One law school is unlikely, however.


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 Post subject: Re: 2.6 GPA - Possible to get into ANY Law School?
PostPosted: Sun Aug 14, 2011 2:07 pm 
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bport hopeful wrote:
CanadianWolf wrote:
To be admitted to Tier Four (unranked) law schools, you will probably need an LSAT score around 152. These law schools may not be worth attending unless you are willing to go into solo practice or into an office sharing arrangement.
Tier Three law schools should call for an LSAT score in the high 150s.
Tier Two law schools will be wary of your abilities unless you score at least a 158 on the LSAT.
Tier One law school admittance is unlikely with a 2.6 GPA in criminal justice without a convincing GPA addendum & an LSAT score above 162, in my opinion.

This is a little optimistic I think.


Yeah, the median LSAT score for practically all T1's is above 162. With that GPA the LSAT will have to be considerably higher.

The same goes for T2's too.

OP is going to have to be an extreme outlier regarding criminal justice. The median score for criminal justice isn't good enough to get into ANY law school -- let alone with those grades.


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 Post subject: Re: 2.6 GPA - Possible to get into ANY Law School?
PostPosted: Sun Aug 14, 2011 2:10 pm 
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Why is it that Cubans are not counted as URMs? I am curious.

Thanks for the help all. I will certainly be researching more.

When does the quality and name of the law school matter, when does it not?

If there was a firm willing to hire me regardless of my school, would it still be worth it?

Also, how do I determine my LSAC GPA? I am not sure how it will be adjusted once their rubric is applied.


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 Post subject: Re: 2.6 GPA - Possible to get into ANY Law School?
PostPosted: Sun Aug 14, 2011 2:13 pm 
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Donnis wrote:
Why is it that Cubans are not counted as URMs? I am curious.

Thanks for the help all. I will certainly be researching more.

When does the quality and name of the law school matter, when does it not?

If there was a firm willing to hire me regardless of my school, would it still be worth it?

Also, how do I determine my LSAC GPA? I am not sure how it will be adjusted once their rubric is applied.

URM = Under Represented Minority

Cubans are not under represented compared to their percent of the population.


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 Post subject: Re: 2.6 GPA - Possible to get into ANY Law School?
PostPosted: Sun Aug 14, 2011 2:16 pm 
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There are Tier Four law schools that might accept OP with an LSAT at or above 152. For example, Cooley, Barry, Atlanta's John Marshall, Appalachain, Ave Maria, Faulkner, Florida Coastal, New England, NC Central, Phoenix, Southern University, St. Mary's, St. Thomas, Texas Southern & Thomas Jefferson are Tier Four law schools that might accept OP with an LSAT of 152 or higher. I do not advocate attending any of these law schools, but that is not what OP is asking.


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 Post subject: Re: 2.6 GPA - Possible to get into ANY Law School?
PostPosted: Sun Aug 14, 2011 2:20 pm 
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Although I do not know the particulars about each applicant, among Tier One law schools Minnesota & Indiana-Bloomington each accepted several applicants with sub-2.6 GPA last cycle.


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 Post subject: Re: 2.6 GPA - Possible to get into ANY Law School?
PostPosted: Sun Aug 14, 2011 2:24 pm 
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Thank you all for your input. It is much appreciated.

I was looking at the LSAC website for the transcript services and seems as if it falls under a service called "CAS". This includes the conversion of all my transcripts to one standardized GPA. There is a $124 fee for all of this which includes LSAT and LOR. Is there just one service that can convert JUST my undergrad GPA and not LSAT scores and everything else that is included. I am curious what my standardized GPA would be, I feel it would be higher than what my school has.


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 Post subject: Re: 2.6 GPA - Possible to get into ANY Law School?
PostPosted: Sun Aug 14, 2011 2:25 pm 
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CanadianWolf wrote:
Although I do not know the particulars about each applicant, among Tier One law schools Minnesota & Indiana-Bloomington each accepted several applicants with sub-2.6 GPA last cycle.


Those people either had one or both of the following: 1) Top 1% in the LSAT; and/or, 2) URM status.

#1 is not something anyone can bank on and #2 is not possible.


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 Post subject: Re: 2.6 GPA - Possible to get into ANY Law School?
PostPosted: Sun Aug 14, 2011 2:30 pm 
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Donnis wrote:
Thank you all for your input. It is much appreciated.

I was looking at the LSAC website for the transcript services and seems as if it falls under a service called "CAS". This includes the conversion of all my transcripts to one standardized GPA. There is a $124 fee for all of this which includes LSAT and LOR. Is there just one service that can convert JUST my undergrad GPA and not LSAT scores and everything else that is included. I am curious what my standardized GPA would be, I feel it would be higher than what my school has.


Just to let you know, it is usually lower. This is because CAS takes retakes and averages them. Got an F in math, retook for a B- that's a D as far as the CAS is concerned.

However if you have a few A+s it could go higher if your school is on a strict 4.0 system.


On another note you asked about, yeah it could be worth it to apply to a lower ranked school if you have a firm job offer, in writing, for when you graduate.

Also, I would like to add that until you get your transcripts converted and get an LSAT score a lot of this discussion is pointless.

Oh, and finally: The quality and name of the law school almost always matter.


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 Post subject: Re: 2.6 GPA - Possible to get into ANY Law School?
PostPosted: Sun Aug 14, 2011 4:14 pm 
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Donnis wrote:
Thank you all for your input. It is much appreciated.

I was looking at the LSAC website for the transcript services and seems as if it falls under a service called "CAS". This includes the conversion of all my transcripts to one standardized GPA. There is a $124 fee for all of this which includes LSAT and LOR. Is there just one service that can convert JUST my undergrad GPA and not LSAT scores and everything else that is included. I am curious what my standardized GPA would be, I feel it would be higher than what my school has.
LSAC's CAS services is required to apply to law schools. The schools don't want to deal with transcripts and letters and essays trickling in from all over the country/world and having to file them under each applicant's name, so LSAC does it for all of us and then submits a standardized report to the schools for you. It makes applying to multiple schools a LOT easier.

Lawschoolpredictor.com has a GPA calculator you can use to figure out what your LSAC-calculate GPA will be.
Include only classes up until your first bachelor's degree was granted.
Include both grades for retaken classes unless the first class (with the low grade) appears absolutely nowhere on your transcript.
Include any classes that earned college credit, even if you were in high school at the time.

http://www.lawschoolpredictor.com/wp-co ... ulator.htm


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 Post subject: Re: 2.6 GPA - Possible to get into ANY Law School?
PostPosted: Sun Aug 14, 2011 4:38 pm 
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I feel like I'm saying this in every thread, but 168+ and WUSTL might not just accept you, they might throw a ~54k scholly at you. I think that's what was happening for sub 3 people this past cycle.

EDIT* Looks more like 30k, but still not bad.


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 Post subject: Re: 2.6 GPA - Possible to get into ANY Law School?
PostPosted: Sun Aug 14, 2011 4:41 pm 
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T50 school is by no means out of the question. All of this is speculation without a real LSAT.


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