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funstuff
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Hypothetical

Postby funstuff » Mon Aug 08, 2011 5:23 am

If you were dead-set on going to say, Y or S, or any school that is more "holistic" and had the numbers but didn't get in and were willing to take off as many cycles as necessary to get in, would it be hypothetically okay to ask the admissions committee what went wrong in your application/what you should strengthen.
FYI One of my friends showed me a thread on SDN (student doctor.net, the TLS of pre-meds) that said this situation was okay for med schools.
Just curious if anyone knows anything about this.

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descartesb4thehorse
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Re: Hypothetical

Postby descartesb4thehorse » Mon Aug 08, 2011 5:33 am

Actually relevant to my interests, as a school which still has me sitting on a WL offered me an appointment with an adcomm member for this coming cycle. Will they be willing to go into personal, specific things about my app that I can work on? Or will it be treated just like a standard adcomm appointment where they only worry about selling the school to get up their admissions numbers?

From the sense I get on TLS, most applicants who talk with adcomms are promised the world with some fine notice ("We take all of our applicants seriously, numbers don't mean everything, we have a holistic approach"/"But we do get a large number of applicants each year" as a throw-away comment). Can one expect for anything better as a reapplicant, with advance notice to the adcomm so they can actually look at your file?

shoeshine
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Re: Hypothetical

Postby shoeshine » Mon Aug 08, 2011 8:37 am

They won't tell you why you didn't get in. No matter what. The most they will tell you is some bullshit line about how they evaluate each application in a holistic manner and make sure that each individual is a fit for their school.

P.S. The only good school that consistently evaluates all its applicants (not just URMS) holistically seems to be Berkeley. Otherwise you are usually living and dying by you lsat/gpa.

funstuff
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Re: Hypothetical

Postby funstuff » Mon Aug 08, 2011 2:13 pm

shoeshine wrote:They won't tell you why you didn't get in. No matter what. The most they will tell you is some bullshit line about how they evaluate each application in a holistic manner and make sure that each individual is a fit for their school.

P.S. The only good school that consistently evaluates all its applicants (not just URMS) holistically seems to be Berkeley. Otherwise you are usually living and dying by you lsat/gpa.


So what about all this I've been hearing about hitting the median LSAT/GPA or even 75% LSAT/GPA at Y and S and that still not necessarily enough to get in?

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birdlaw117
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Re: Hypothetical

Postby birdlaw117 » Mon Aug 08, 2011 2:17 pm

funstuff wrote:
shoeshine wrote:They won't tell you why you didn't get in. No matter what. The most they will tell you is some bullshit line about how they evaluate each application in a holistic manner and make sure that each individual is a fit for their school.

P.S. The only good school that consistently evaluates all its applicants (not just URMS) holistically seems to be Berkeley. Otherwise you are usually living and dying by you lsat/gpa.


So what about all this I've been hearing about hitting the median LSAT/GPA or even 75% LSAT/GPA at Y and S and that still not necessarily enough to get in?

For schools like Y and S the numbers are necessary but not sufficient. You have to have the numbers, but you need to have an overall interesting application as well. Their class sizes are small enough that they can afford to be very picky with their selections.

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acrossthelake
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Re: Hypothetical

Postby acrossthelake » Mon Aug 08, 2011 2:37 pm


funstuff
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Re: Hypothetical

Postby funstuff » Mon Aug 08, 2011 2:41 pm

I think I may have phrased my question incorrectly:
Does anyone have any experience with contacting the admissions committee after being WL or denied, and receiving information on how to strengthen their application for future cycles?
Ex. "Your PS was weak...you have no work experience" etc.

Specifically for Y/S, since you can have good numbers and still not get in.

WestOfTheRest
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Re: Hypothetical

Postby WestOfTheRest » Mon Aug 08, 2011 3:19 pm

funstuff wrote:I think I may have phrased my question incorrectly:
Does anyone have any experience with contacting the admissions committee after being WL or denied, and receiving information on how to strengthen their application for future cycles?
Ex. "Your PS was weak...you have no work experience" etc.

Specifically for Y/S, since you can have good numbers and still not get in.

I think you have a decent question. I believe that the answer to your question is no. If they allowed you to do this, they would have thousands of people asking them this question each year. Furthermore, most of the time the true answer would be, "Your LSAT/GPA was not high enough."

sparty99
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Re: Hypothetical

Postby sparty99 » Mon Aug 08, 2011 10:03 pm

funstuff wrote:I think I may have phrased my question incorrectly:
Does anyone have any experience with contacting the admissions committee after being WL or denied, and receiving information on how to strengthen their application for future cycles?
Ex. "Your PS was weak...you have no work experience" etc.

Specifically for Y/S, since you can have good numbers and still not get in.


I did not ask why my PS was weak, I knew the answer: MY LSAT. As a result, I wrote multiple LOCI's to my waitlisted schools, made sure I added relevant facts with each update, and when the admissions cycle was coming to an end, I made a power play move by visiting the Admissions Director. I wore a suit, we talked for 30 minutes. A week later I was accepted - with scholarship.

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descartesb4thehorse
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Re: Hypothetical

Postby descartesb4thehorse » Mon Aug 08, 2011 10:12 pm

sparty99 wrote:
funstuff wrote:I think I may have phrased my question incorrectly:
Does anyone have any experience with contacting the admissions committee after being WL or denied, and receiving information on how to strengthen their application for future cycles?
Ex. "Your PS was weak...you have no work experience" etc.

Specifically for Y/S, since you can have good numbers and still not get in.


I did not ask why my PS was weak, I knew the answer: MY LSAT. As a result, I wrote multiple LOCI's to my waitlisted schools, made sure I added relevant facts with each update, and when the admissions cycle was coming to an end, I made a power play move by visiting the Admissions Director. I wore a suit, we talked for 30 minutes. A week later I was accepted - with scholarship.


ITT: Sparty tells an irrelevant story to try to get everyone to vote for him for Prom Queen or something.

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Rock-N-Roll
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Re: Hypothetical

Postby Rock-N-Roll » Mon Aug 08, 2011 10:14 pm

shoeshine wrote:They won't tell you why you didn't get in. No matter what. The most they will tell you is some bullshit line about how they evaluate each application in a holistic manner and make sure that each individual is a fit for their school.

P.S. The only good school that consistently evaluates all its applicants (not just URMS) holistically seems to be Berkeley. Otherwise you are usually living and dying by you lsat/gpa.


Rock-on Shoeshine! Happy to see someone post something nice about Boalt on TLS.

Although granted I am incredibly biased (as I will be going to Boalt), it was also my impression that an application laking softs could be overcome at HYS with something like a 3.9+/175+.

sparty99
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Re: Hypothetical

Postby sparty99 » Mon Aug 08, 2011 10:21 pm

descartesb4thehorse wrote:
sparty99 wrote:
funstuff wrote:I think I may have phrased my question incorrectly:
Does anyone have any experience with contacting the admissions committee after being WL or denied, and receiving information on how to strengthen their application for future cycles?
Ex. "Your PS was weak...you have no work experience" etc.

Specifically for Y/S, since you can have good numbers and still not get in.


I did not ask why my PS was weak, I knew the answer: MY LSAT. As a result, I wrote multiple LOCI's to my waitlisted schools, made sure I added relevant facts with each update, and when the admissions cycle was coming to an end, I made a power play move by visiting the Admissions Director. I wore a suit, we talked for 30 minutes. A week later I was accepted - with scholarship.


ITT: Sparty tells an irrelevant story to try to get everyone to vote for him for Prom Queen or something.


My story isn't irrelevant. Admissions decisions are still being made for waitlisted students. Now is not the time evaluate why you didn't get in. At this point in the cycle, anything can happen. If you still want to be admitted at one of your top programs, be pro-active. Visit the school or get them on the phone and ask relevant questions that exemplifies your interest and dedication to the school.

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descartesb4thehorse
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Re: Hypothetical

Postby descartesb4thehorse » Mon Aug 08, 2011 10:42 pm

sparty99 wrote:
descartesb4thehorse wrote:
ITT: Sparty tells an irrelevant story to try to get everyone to vote for him for Prom Queen or something.


My story isn't irrelevant. Admissions decisions are still being made for waitlisted students. Now is not the time evaluate why you didn't get in. At this point in the cycle, anything can happen. If you still want to be admitted at one of your top programs, be pro-active. Visit the school or get them on the phone and ask relevant questions that exemplifies your interest and dedication to the school.


Considering that most schools in the T-14 have said that their classes are full with deposited students and the only way it will change if people get cold feet the day before Orientation, it's not an "anything can happen" game. Most people who pulled out their "power moves" did so in April or May when there was still some level of flux on the waitlist. I've personally had a school which still has me on their waitlist offer me a meeting with an adcomm for next cycle; it would be a bit brash (and probably not seen as a "power move") to spend the entire time trying to convince them that they should expand their already-full class for me, when there's something much more productive about wanting to know what I could learn for the next cycle.

Anyways, one of the best things you can do for your app is to get it in early; for a lot of people, that means before October. If classes start at the middle-end of August and someone wants to submit week 1, that gives them roughly 3 weeks to get someone in admissions to talk to them about their previous app (if it's possible). Makes way more sense to be considering that now as opposed to "IT'S AUGUST 8 AND I'M STILL ON THE WAITLIST SHOULD I SHOW UP IN A SUIT AND TALK TO THE ADCOMM FOR 30 MINS/IS THAT A POWER MOVE?"

TL;DR version: I just Carrie'd your prom queen campaign.

sparty99
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Re: Hypothetical

Postby sparty99 » Mon Aug 08, 2011 11:03 pm

descartesb4thehorse wrote:
sparty99 wrote:
descartesb4thehorse wrote:
ITT: Sparty tells an irrelevant story to try to get everyone to vote for him for Prom Queen or something.


My story isn't irrelevant. Admissions decisions are still being made for waitlisted students. Now is not the time evaluate why you didn't get in. At this point in the cycle, anything can happen. If you still want to be admitted at one of your top programs, be pro-active. Visit the school or get them on the phone and ask relevant questions that exemplifies your interest and dedication to the school.


Considering that most schools in the T-14 have said that their classes are full with deposited students and the only way it will change if people get cold feet the day before Orientation, it's not an "anything can happen" game. Most people who pulled out their "power moves" did so in April or May when there was still some level of flux on the waitlist. I've personally had a school which still has me on their waitlist offer me a meeting with an adcomm for next cycle; it would be a bit brash (and probably not seen as a "power move") to spend the entire time trying to convince them that they should expand their already-full class for me, when there's something much more productive about wanting to know what I could learn for the next cycle.

Anyways, one of the best things you can do for your app is to get it in early; for a lot of people, that means before October. If classes start at the middle-end of August and someone wants to submit week 1, that gives them roughly 3 weeks to get someone in admissions to talk to them about their previous app (if it's possible). Makes way more sense to be considering that now as opposed to "IT'S AUGUST 8 AND I'M STILL ON THE WAITLIST SHOULD I SHOW UP IN A SUIT AND TALK TO THE ADCOMM FOR 30 MINS/IS THAT A POWER MOVE?"

TL;DR version: I just Carrie'd your prom queen campaign.


Well, whatever. I had two waitlist accepts last week - both with scholarships. One of the schools even said they were overcomitted. You can sit on your butt and be content with wondering what is wrong with your app and oh well, I'll apply before October. Or you can be pro-active, take one last shot. "If you want something you have never had, then do something you have never done."

MumofCad
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Re: Hypothetical

Postby MumofCad » Tue Aug 09, 2011 9:40 am

OP - I think with everything in life, the worst that can happen is that they say no. As long as you ask in a reasonable, respectful manner, I don't think they are going to count it against you.

Take the appointment if you had the numbers, and just explain politely how committed you are to going to their school because of x, y, and z. That you are willing to sit out a year, it means so much to you. That you are determined to make yourself the best possible candidate since you know this is where you want your career in law to begin, can they give you any direction on how you could improve your chances in the coming cycle to avoid disappointment? Bring a resume and copy of your PS, just in case they agree. Why not? All they can is something generic.

I'm not sure you'll get anything useful out of it. I would say if you had numbers that usually get admitted, you should reconsider your PS (you have a year to work on it), get a serious job, and think hard about whether any of your LORs could be strengthened or someone could be added that would fill out your package. You have a year to keep in contact with your recommenders, establish more info for them to put into a strong LOR, etc. If you take all these things seriously, it doesn't really matter what the adcomm says in the meeting - you'll be a stronger candidate anyhow.

Good luck!

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bport hopeful
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Re: Hypothetical

Postby bport hopeful » Tue Aug 09, 2011 9:51 am

I didnt really read most of the thread, but FWIW, Med school is far more holistic than LS.

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ahduth
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Re: Hypothetical

Postby ahduth » Tue Aug 09, 2011 4:15 pm

MumofCad wrote:OP - I think with everything in life, the worst that can happen is that they say no. As long as you ask in a reasonable, respectful manner, I don't think they are going to count it against you.

Take the appointment if you had the numbers, and just explain politely how committed you are to going to their school because of x, y, and z. That you are willing to sit out a year, it means so much to you. That you are determined to make yourself the best possible candidate since you know this is where you want your career in law to begin, can they give you any direction on how you could improve your chances in the coming cycle to avoid disappointment? Bring a resume and copy of your PS, just in case they agree. Why not? All they can is something generic.

I'm not sure you'll get anything useful out of it. I would say if you had numbers that usually get admitted, you should reconsider your PS (you have a year to work on it), get a serious job, and think hard about whether any of your LORs could be strengthened or someone could be added that would fill out your package. You have a year to keep in contact with your recommenders, establish more info for them to put into a strong LOR, etc. If you take all these things seriously, it doesn't really matter what the adcomm says in the meeting - you'll be a stronger candidate anyhow.

Good luck!


+1, although Castlerock is probably right - if they personally explained to each applicant why they were shitcanned, it would take forever.




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