Should I Submit a Low LSAT Score Addendum?

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Should I Submit a Low LSAT Score Addendum?

Yes
2
9%
No
21
91%
 
Total votes: 23

orlando123
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Should I Submit a Low LSAT Score Addendum?

Postby orlando123 » Sat Jul 30, 2011 11:04 am

168/3.96 from a lower ivy in history. 80th-90th percentile ACT and SAT scores (have hard copy; will scan it into a pdf and include if I write it). Year and a half WE.

Ivey says do it for reverse splitters, but some others here said disparity isn't big enough. Learning towards just a quick paragraph addendum.

What would you do? Applying T2 thru 16; EDing to NYU.

thx for the advice!

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Hawkeye Pierce
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Re: Should I Submit a Low LSAT Score Addendum?

Postby Hawkeye Pierce » Sat Jul 30, 2011 11:47 am

Uh, no.....

That's not exactly "low". You're applying to T2 schools? Why?

You'll get some lower T14. I don't know how NYU is with ED for those numbers, check LSN for that.

You'll probably get some good regional schools (e.g., Vandy, USC, UCLA) with $$ too.

CanadianWolf
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Re: Should I Submit a Low LSAT Score Addendum?

Postby CanadianWolf » Sat Jul 30, 2011 11:49 am

I think OP is applying to Harvard through UCLA inclusive & not to any Tier Two law schools.

OP: Don't do an addendum if 168 is your only LSAT score. If you think that it is a low score for you, then retake.

schooner
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Re: Should I Submit a Low LSAT Score Addendum?

Postby schooner » Sat Jul 30, 2011 11:55 am

I say don't. One reason for addendums is for aspects about your application would make adcoms pause and draw negative conclusions about you. A 168 wouldn't really do that. (Maybe a different story if you had gotten a 150 or 180 previously.)

Don't include your ACT/SAT scores anywhere in your application. No one cares.

To the previous poster - I think the OP is applying to the top schools Harvard on down. The T2 / tier 2 terminology is confusing though.

Edit: obviously include your ACT/SAT scores in your app if the school asks for it, but don't gratuitously provide them

orlando123
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Re: Should I Submit a Low LSAT Score Addendum?

Postby orlando123 » Sat Jul 30, 2011 12:01 pm

lol sorry. ya i meant H thru UCLA. 168 is the only score. 2 cancels tho. Busted my ass studying; I just suck at standardized tests. Hence the 1800s SATs and 25/26 ACTs. Yet, I did really well at a decent college so I thought I might wanna write a quick addendum--hopefully getting adcoms to put more weight on the >75%tile GPA.

thederangedwang
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Re: Should I Submit a Low LSAT Score Addendum?

Postby thederangedwang » Sat Jul 30, 2011 12:03 pm

How is your LSAT score low?

According to your own admission, your SAT and ACT scores were 80-90 percentile. Which means a 168 on the LSAT is already beating your previous standarized test percentiles.

Besides, an addendum for low scores is only for when you completely underachieve on the LSAT for a weird reason outside your control. Just because your score is below their median doesnt mean that you have an excuse.

If you think it is low, and you can get better, then retake.

If this is your "best" then just because your best is not good enough to get to their medians is not a reason for explanation.


DO NOT write an addendum, you will look whiny...besides, like I said above, you already beat your ACT and SAT scores

Sandro
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Re: Should I Submit a Low LSAT Score Addendum?

Postby Sandro » Sat Jul 30, 2011 12:10 pm

I think you are confused as to what the terms "low" and "low lsat addendum" mean.

orlando123
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Re: Should I Submit a Low LSAT Score Addendum?

Postby orlando123 » Sat Jul 30, 2011 12:10 pm

thederangedwang,

Not submitting it now. Those are all strong arguments. You just called me out and pwnd me. 168 is really my best, and it's depressing that it's not good enough to hit T10 medians, so I thought I'd write an addendum. Guess it could come accross as whiny. I'll scratch it off my list and focus on my PS and Why MVP essays. Thank you!

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vanwinkle
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Re: Should I Submit a Low LSAT Score Addendum?

Postby vanwinkle » Sat Jul 30, 2011 12:30 pm

If you have a good story to tell, you should apply to Yale also. It's not that you have a real significant chance of getting in, but Yale is a little more known for taking the occasional outlier. HLS admissions seem more strictly numbers-driven. If you consider it worth applying to the rest of the T6 with a 168, you may as well do Yale too.

Don't get me wrong. You're likely not getting into any of the T6 with your numbers. But it's at least worth trying if you have the app fee money, with a GPA that high and some WE. If for some reason they did take you, you'd be happy you tried.

thederangedwang
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Re: Should I Submit a Low LSAT Score Addendum?

Postby thederangedwang » Sat Jul 30, 2011 12:40 pm

orlando123 wrote:thederangedwang,

Not submitting it now. Those are all strong arguments. You just called me out and pwnd me. 168 is really my best, and it's depressing that it's not good enough to hit T10 medians, so I thought I'd write an addendum. Guess it could come accross as whiny. I'll scratch it off my list and focus on my PS and Why MVP essays. Thank you!


First of all, a 168 is still pretty damm good so you will most likely get into a T14 school, or several.
What I do think you should "potentially" address is the fact that you have 2 canceled scores. 1 cancel is fine, 2 or more, and I would start wondering about your ability to perform under pressure (does this guy break when it comes to crunch time?).

If I were you, I would make sure your personal statement reflected something about your ability to perform under pressure. Write about something that will tell the adcomm "this guy can work under a tight deadline or when the heat gets turned up".

I actually think the 168 is not the big deal with your application, I think the two canceled scores deserve more of your attention. IMHO

orlando123
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Re: Should I Submit a Low LSAT Score Addendum?

Postby orlando123 » Sat Jul 30, 2011 12:54 pm

I had C 168 C. First C I just wasn't prepared. 170 was my PT avg and after the second try (aka the 168) I decided (after reading TLS) there was way more upside to hoping for a good day and getting up a cuople pts than the downside of a second cancel. Ya.... Plan worked like a charm all the way up to section 5 reading comp... Anyways, ty all again. Will apply to Y for the lawlz and focus on a WE/ dealing well under pressure PS.

pwyoung
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Re: Should I Submit a Low LSAT Score Addendum?

Postby pwyoung » Sat Jul 30, 2011 2:56 pm

orlando123 wrote:lol sorry. ya i meant H thru UCLA. 168 is the only score. 2 cancels tho. Busted my ass studying; I just suck at standardized tests. Hence the 1800s SATs and 25/26 ACTs. Yet, I did really well at a decent college so I thought I might wanna write a quick addendum--hopefully getting adcoms to put more weight on the >75%tile GPA.


Yeah, you're already outperforming your HS test scores by a mile... you got into a lower Ivy with those? There's gotta be something else from the picture here that would be compelling to put in your application.

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AntipodeanPhil
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Re: Should I Submit a Low LSAT Score Addendum?

Postby AntipodeanPhil » Sat Jul 30, 2011 3:24 pm

Just out of curiosity: what is a 'lower Ivy' - Brown, Cornell? Or is the OP referring to one of the derivative 'ivy' groupings - 'the southern ivies,' 'the public ivies,' et cetera?

Seems like this might be law school relevant, since lawyers are such prestige whores.

dkt4
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Re: Should I Submit a Low LSAT Score Addendum?

Postby dkt4 » Sat Jul 30, 2011 4:31 pm

i had no idea that the 'lower ivies' considered themselves as such :P

Real Madrid
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Re: Should I Submit a Low LSAT Score Addendum?

Postby Real Madrid » Sat Jul 30, 2011 4:49 pm

thederangedwang wrote:How is your LSAT score low?

According to your own admission, your SAT and ACT scores were 80-90 percentile. Which means a 168 on the LSAT is already beating your previous standarized test percentiles.



For real. I was 99th percentile on both the ACT and SAT and I got a 168 on the LSAT.

168 is really my best, and it's depressing that it's not good enough to hit T10 medians


Maybe I should be depressed that I've gone from top 1% to top 4%? No, I think I'll be happy with that, and you should be too. 95% of LSAT takers would be thrilled to trade scores with you.

Real Madrid
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Re: Should I Submit a Low LSAT Score Addendum?

Postby Real Madrid » Sat Jul 30, 2011 4:56 pm

AntipodeanPhil wrote:Just out of curiosity: what is a 'lower Ivy' - Brown, Cornell?


Good question. I think I kind of look at their undergrads as being in tiers, much like law schools.

Harvard, Princeton, Yale

Columbia, Penn

Brown, Cornell, Dartmouth


All still outstanding schools though.

orlando123
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Re: Should I Submit a Low LSAT Score Addendum?

Postby orlando123 » Sat Jul 30, 2011 6:27 pm

By lower ivy I mean Brown/Cornell/Dartmouth.

Ya I was a tripple legacy... But I got my ish together and studied a lot in college. I think it had something to do with being around a lot of smart striver people. Lol. Peer pressure for the win I suppose.

Would you guys write a few sentence LSAT addendum for the two cancels or let it be?

"I would like to write an addendum to the admissions committee about my two cancelled LSAT scores. I foolishly took the test the first time without sufficiently preparing for it. After taking the exam a second time and receiving a 168 I felt I could improve further and didn't want to stand pat on my score."

Thanks for all the helpful tips!

thederangedwang
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Re: Should I Submit a Low LSAT Score Addendum?

Postby thederangedwang » Sat Jul 30, 2011 6:36 pm

orlando123 wrote:By lower ivy I mean Brown/Cornell/Dartmouth.

Ya I was a tripple legacy... But I got my ish together and studied a lot in college. I think it had something to do with being around a lot of smart striver people. Lol. Peer pressure for the win I suppose.

Would you guys write a few sentence LSAT addendum for the two cancels or let it be?

"I would like to write an addendum to the admissions committee about my two cancelled LSAT scores. I foolishly took the test the first time without sufficiently preparing for it. After taking the exam a second time and receiving a 168 I felt I could improve further and didn't want to stand pat on my score."

Thanks for all the helpful tips!


NOO! Whatever you do DO NOT do that. You will seriously f-up any chance you had. If I was an adcomm and I received that i would think "why didnt he sufficiently prepare for it?, and why should I give him ANY mercy when all these other kids did work hard and study hard and did prepare?

your addendum essentially states, "sorry, I was too ignorant and/or lazy and/or unprepared and so I messed up my first test

you need to understand, an addendum is only for explaining extraordinary circumstances (sorry, my parents died while I was studying, etc etc)....not preparing is your own fault and thus, will receive no consideration.

orlando123
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Re: Should I Submit a Low LSAT Score Addendum?

Postby orlando123 » Sat Jul 30, 2011 6:41 pm

lol. thederangedwang, you make me feel like a dumbass bro. But you make good arguments. I will not submit any addendum, as I have no real excuse. I'll just make sure my PS/Why XYZ essays are ready to go on September 1 and hope for the best.

thederangedwang
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Re: Should I Submit a Low LSAT Score Addendum?

Postby thederangedwang » Sat Jul 30, 2011 6:43 pm

best of luck, I'm applying to the same schools u r, so, in the same boat as u dude

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AntipodeanPhil
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Re: Should I Submit a Low LSAT Score Addendum?

Postby AntipodeanPhil » Sat Jul 30, 2011 6:49 pm

I just looked at the US News undergrad rankings for the first time in a few years. Brown and Cornell (15=) are a good distance below Dartmouth (9) - perhaps there should be four tiers. I was also surprised to see how low NYU is (33) - it's a top five school in my previous major.

I'm also with the 'no addendum' camp, unless the OP can think of a great excuse it would be worthless - even with a great excuse it would be almost worthless.

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amc987
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Re: Should I Submit a Low LSAT Score Addendum?

Postby amc987 » Sun Jul 31, 2011 2:33 am

I think you shouldn't write an addendum. Maybe if you feel it's necessary to explain the cancellations, but a 168, especially because it's your only real score, isn't low enough to warrant one. I am writing an addendum with a 169, but that's because I have a much lower score to explain (I wish I'd had your presence of mind and cancelled the first time). Obviously 3.96 from an Ivy is pretty impressive (and I think the adcomms would acknowledge this), so I'm sure that'll carry more weight than the LSAT score in your case anyway. Good luck with your cycle!

Real Madrid wrote:Good question. I think I kind of look at their undergrads as being in tiers, much like law schools.

Harvard, Princeton, Yale

Columbia, Penn

Brown, Cornell, Dartmouth


All still outstanding schools though.


Ehh, I'm not sure that anyone but a Penn student would put it up with Columbia. In my experience the top tier is correct, but Brown and Dartmouth move up some and Penn moves down some. I don't know why the US News system doesn't favor Brown/Dartmouth as much as it does Penn (I think it has something to do with Penn being a whore for applicants with high SAT scores and admitting tons of students early decision to raise its yields, and Brown/Dartmouth having more forgiving curricular requirements). Still, I have more friends who wanted to go to Dartmouth/Brown, didn't get in, and went to Penn instead than vice versa. I think that Penn has made more of a surge in the last 15 years since applications have become more competitive, but it used to be much less respected. I have no idea whether this disrespect was warranted, but the school's reputation was such that it was frequently confused with Penn State. Brown and Dartmouth seem to not have had this problem, but have suffered more in the US News race (see above). As another poster said, they're all excellent schools, and this minutia doesn't really matter to anyone other than the douchiest of the prestige whores (and the insomniacs who are on TLS at this time of night, clearly) ;-)

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gothamm
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Re: Should I Submit a Low LSAT Score Addendum?

Postby gothamm » Sun Jul 31, 2011 5:25 am

AntipodeanPhil wrote:I just looked at the US News undergrad rankings for the first time in a few years. Brown and Cornell (15=) are a good distance below Dartmouth (9) - perhaps there should be four tiers. I was also surprised to see how low NYU is (33) - it's a top five school in my previous major.

I'm also with the 'no addendum' camp, unless the OP can think of a great excuse it would be worthless - even with a great excuse it would be almost worthless.


wouldn't put too much weight on those rankings. They have berkeley at 22 for gods sake.

dkt4
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Re: Should I Submit a Low LSAT Score Addendum?

Postby dkt4 » Sun Jul 31, 2011 3:30 pm

undergrad rankings are exponentially more useless than law school rankings.

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acrossthelake
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Re: Should I Submit a Low LSAT Score Addendum?

Postby acrossthelake » Sun Jul 31, 2011 3:51 pm

dkt4 wrote:undergrad rankings are exponentially more useless than law school rankings.


This.

Also, the relative "ranking" of the Ivies has a lot to do with wealth. HYP has always been its own league--Harvard's got its top-notch business, medical, and law schools, Yale's got a good medical and law school, and I believe Princeton managed to draw in a lot of government contracts for research in the past. Columbia and Penn also both have well-known business, law, and medical schools. Brown and Dartmouth don't have any professional schools, and are thus the poorest of the bunch. Cornell was late to the game time-wise, and though it has a med school and business school, neither have the reputation of the rest. In terms of actual admissions rates, though, HYP is the most difficult, and Brown and Dartmouth are in the same league as Columbia and UPenn non-Wharton (Wharton is a bit more competitive) and Cornell varies depending on which school you're talking about, with its engineering being most competitive.

Also, no, don't write that addendum.




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