.

(Applications Advice, Letters of Recommendation . . . )

Should I Report

Yes
20
65%
No
11
35%
 
Total votes: 31

thederangedwang
Posts: 1124
Joined: Tue Jul 12, 2011 9:44 pm

.

Postby thederangedwang » Fri Jul 29, 2011 2:08 pm

.
Last edited by thederangedwang on Thu Dec 17, 2015 12:34 am, edited 1 time in total.

flexityflex86
Posts: 973
Joined: Thu Mar 10, 2011 6:06 pm

Re: Should I Say that I am Chinese?

Postby flexityflex86 » Fri Jul 29, 2011 2:14 pm

thederangedwang wrote:As all of you know, LSAC can release ethnic information when they generate your report if you check a box in your account. So far, I've unchecked that box.

So....are there any adv/disadv to reporting/not reporting your ethnic data to law schools when you apply?

I'm ethnically Chinese btw, so I'm guessing I'm not an URM

If you're ethnically Chinese, the correct response is to obviously just spin a racial wheel of fortune, and select whatever it lands on. Seriously, what else would you put? Why would it hurt you that your Chinese? Unless you're URM, all races are equally crappy.

thederangedwang
Posts: 1124
Joined: Tue Jul 12, 2011 9:44 pm

Re: Should I Say that I am Chinese?

Postby thederangedwang » Fri Jul 29, 2011 2:17 pm

flexityflex86 wrote:
thederangedwang wrote:As all of you know, LSAC can release ethnic information when they generate your report if you check a box in your account. So far, I've unchecked that box.

So....are there any adv/disadv to reporting/not reporting your ethnic data to law schools when you apply?

I'm ethnically Chinese btw, so I'm guessing I'm not an URM

If you're ethnically Chinese, the correct response is to obviously just spin a racial wheel of fortune, and select whatever it lands on. Seriously, what else would you put? Why would it hurt you that your Chinese? Unless you're URM, all races are equally crappy.


The reason why I am reluctant to put this is because aren't Asians (especially Chinese) over-represented in law school? Obviously they would be able to infer this from my last name but still....just not sure

freestallion
Posts: 944
Joined: Thu Jan 13, 2011 2:17 pm

Re: Should I Say that I am Chinese?

Postby freestallion » Fri Jul 29, 2011 2:18 pm

Honesty is the best policy. They'll see it in your last name anyway.

JOThompson
Posts: 1311
Joined: Sun Aug 02, 2009 3:16 am

Re: Should I Say that I am Chinese?

Postby JOThompson » Fri Jul 29, 2011 2:24 pm

It certainly won't help at UC schools. Might even be a slight disadvantage.

User avatar
crumpetsandtea
Posts: 7156
Joined: Thu Jun 17, 2010 7:57 pm

Re: Should I Say that I am Chinese?

Postby crumpetsandtea » Fri Jul 29, 2011 2:24 pm

thederangedwang wrote:
flexityflex86 wrote:
thederangedwang wrote:As all of you know, LSAC can release ethnic information when they generate your report if you check a box in your account. So far, I've unchecked that box.

So....are there any adv/disadv to reporting/not reporting your ethnic data to law schools when you apply?

I'm ethnically Chinese btw, so I'm guessing I'm not an URM

If you're ethnically Chinese, the correct response is to obviously just spin a racial wheel of fortune, and select whatever it lands on. Seriously, what else would you put? Why would it hurt you that your Chinese? Unless you're URM, all races are equally crappy.


The reason why I am reluctant to put this is because aren't Asians (especially Chinese) over-represented in law school? Obviously they would be able to infer this from my last name but still....just not sure

...e_e seriously?

1) If you know they'll be able to tell from your last name anyway, what does it matter?

2) If you don't report and your last name is ambiguous, they will likely assume white, which is just another ORM, so it doesn't matter either way.

Take away point: It doesn't matter. Stop worrying about totally useless things and focus on getting the rest of your app ready.

User avatar
Bildungsroman
Posts: 5548
Joined: Sun Apr 11, 2010 2:42 pm

Re: Should I Say that I am Chinese?

Postby Bildungsroman » Mon Aug 01, 2011 5:12 am

OP has a legitimate concern; in undergrad admissions, certain universities' affirmative action policies actively discriminate against Asians because they are so overrepresented among qualified applicants, so Asians have to achieve higher scores than their white peers to have as good a chance at being admitted. I have seen no evidence, however, that law school admissions function this way, and I do not believe it to be the case in law school admissions. OP, I don't believe it will make any difference whether you decline to provide your race/ethnicity when you have that option.

Note to mods: Obviously I'm not trying to start an affirmative action debate, I just wanted to provide some context for why people might be worried.

User avatar
yngblkgifted
Posts: 1049
Joined: Sun Apr 25, 2010 8:57 pm

Re: Should I Say that I am Chinese?

Postby yngblkgifted » Mon Aug 01, 2011 7:53 am

Bildungsroman wrote:OP has a legitimate concern; in undergrad admissions, certain universities' affirmative action policies actively discriminate against Asians because they are so overrepresented among qualified applicants, so Asians have to achieve higher scores than their white peers to have as good a chance at being admitted. I have seen no evidence, however, that law school admissions function this way, and I do not believe it to be the case in law school admissions. OP, I don't believe it will make any difference whether you decline to provide your race/ethnicity when you have that option.

Note to mods: Obviously I'm not trying to start an affirmative action debate, I just wanted to provide some context for why people might be worried.



Probably because all of the really qualified Asians are in medical school. :wink:

flexityflex86
Posts: 973
Joined: Thu Mar 10, 2011 6:06 pm

Re: Should I Say that I am Chinese?

Postby flexityflex86 » Mon Aug 01, 2011 8:08 am

I don't really think anyone cares. It is a shame that Asian people are discriminated against in UG admissions. Its no one's job to make every race exactly =. If Asians do a better job of raising children with good work ethics and strong credentials our society should not try to keep them down. Let progress happen.

User avatar
ahduth
Posts: 2468
Joined: Wed Sep 29, 2010 10:55 am

Re: Should I Say that I am Chinese?

Postby ahduth » Mon Aug 01, 2011 8:44 am

thederangedwang wrote:As all of you know, LSAC can release ethnic information when they generate your report if you check a box in your account. So far, I've unchecked that box.

So....are there any adv/disadv to reporting/not reporting your ethnic data to law schools when you apply?

I'm ethnically Chinese btw, so I'm guessing I'm not an URM


The main disadvantage is you'll get all these mailings from SALSA or ALSA or whatever. It's stressful stuff, they pressure you to treat them as a resource, when in reality they're only a source of free food, from what I understand.

User avatar
moopness
Posts: 310
Joined: Fri Jul 16, 2010 8:56 pm

Re: Should I Say that I am Chinese?

Postby moopness » Mon Aug 01, 2011 9:20 am

Bildungsroman wrote:OP has a legitimate concern; in undergrad admissions, certain universities' affirmative action policies actively discriminate against Asians because they are so overrepresented among qualified applicants, so Asians have to achieve higher scores than their white peers to have as good a chance at being admitted. I have seen no evidence, however, that law school admissions function this way, and I do not believe it to be the case in law school admissions. OP, I don't believe it will make any difference whether you decline to provide your race/ethnicity when you have that option.

Note to mods: Obviously I'm not trying to start an affirmative action debate, I just wanted to provide some context for why people might be worried.


This, OP certainly has a legitimate concern. I'm South Asian and have been been dealing with the same dilemma, but I'll probably end up not disclosing my ethnicity in my apps. It certainly helps that my name is a bit more ambiguous with respect to my ethnicity (though it's certainly not a "white" name). I think that, at an underlying level, some of the institutional prejudice against Asians remains even in the law school admissions process (but not nearly as much as in UG admissions). It's odd because one would think that being Asian would help you add diversity to the class since schools report Asians in their minority statistics, but I highly doubt that this is the case. No school wants to be known as the "Asian school" (like the UCs) so you would think they would maintain a soft cap on the number of Asians admitted (I have no statistics to back this up). Likewise, no school wants to be known as the "all white school" either, but the "cap" on white students will obviously be much higher than on Asians so it may be more beneficial to be seen as white. Now, this should only affect you late in the cycle, when that "cap" may already have been met or is close to being met. If you're applying early I don't think it will make any difference if you disclose or not. Furthermore, if your numbers and softs are great you don't have much to worry about (unless, again, your applying too late). Now, I plan on applying early but am still apprehensive to disclose my ethnicity because I'm a borderline candidate (splitter). I'm guessing that they are less forgiving to Asian splitters, however my many past experiences with racism may very well be skewing my perception of the process.

User avatar
ahduth
Posts: 2468
Joined: Wed Sep 29, 2010 10:55 am

Re: Should I Say that I am Chinese?

Postby ahduth » Mon Aug 01, 2011 9:37 am

moopness wrote:
Bildungsroman wrote:OP has a legitimate concern; in undergrad admissions, certain universities' affirmative action policies actively discriminate against Asians because they are so overrepresented among qualified applicants, so Asians have to achieve higher scores than their white peers to have as good a chance at being admitted. I have seen no evidence, however, that law school admissions function this way, and I do not believe it to be the case in law school admissions. OP, I don't believe it will make any difference whether you decline to provide your race/ethnicity when you have that option.

Note to mods: Obviously I'm not trying to start an affirmative action debate, I just wanted to provide some context for why people might be worried.


This, OP certainly has a legitimate concern. I'm South Asian and have been been dealing with the same dilemma, but I'll probably end up not disclosing my ethnicity in my apps. It certainly helps that my name is a bit more ambiguous with respect to my ethnicity (though it's certainly not a "white" name). I think that, at an underlying level, some of the institutional prejudice against Asians remains even in the law school admissions process (but not nearly as much as in UG admissions). It's odd because one would think that being Asian would help you add diversity to the class since schools report Asians in their minority statistics, but I highly doubt that this is the case. No school wants to be known as the "Asian school" (like the UCs) so you would think they would maintain a soft cap on the number of Asians admitted (I have no statistics to back this up). Likewise, no school wants to be known as the "all white school" either, but the "cap" on white students will obviously be much higher than on Asians so it may be more beneficial to be seen as white. Now, this should only affect you late in the cycle, when that "cap" may already have been met or is close to being met. If you're applying early I don't think it will make any difference if you disclose or not. Furthermore, if your numbers and softs are great you don't have much to worry about (unless, again, your applying too late). Now, I plan on applying early but am still apprehensive to disclose my ethnicity because I'm a borderline candidate (splitter). I'm guessing that they are less forgiving to Asian splitters, however my many past experiences with racism may very well be skewing my perception of the process.


Lol, glad people are obsessing over that big ominous ethnicity check box. As if law schools care unless you're a URM. Get over yourself.

User avatar
moopness
Posts: 310
Joined: Fri Jul 16, 2010 8:56 pm

Re: Should I Say that I am Chinese?

Postby moopness » Mon Aug 01, 2011 10:11 am

ahduth wrote:
moopness wrote:
Bildungsroman wrote:OP has a legitimate concern; in undergrad admissions, certain universities' affirmative action policies actively discriminate against Asians because they are so overrepresented among qualified applicants, so Asians have to achieve higher scores than their white peers to have as good a chance at being admitted. I have seen no evidence, however, that law school admissions function this way, and I do not believe it to be the case in law school admissions. OP, I don't believe it will make any difference whether you decline to provide your race/ethnicity when you have that option.

Note to mods: Obviously I'm not trying to start an affirmative action debate, I just wanted to provide some context for why people might be worried.


This, OP certainly has a legitimate concern. I'm South Asian and have been been dealing with the same dilemma, but I'll probably end up not disclosing my ethnicity in my apps. It certainly helps that my name is a bit more ambiguous with respect to my ethnicity (though it's certainly not a "white" name). I think that, at an underlying level, some of the institutional prejudice against Asians remains even in the law school admissions process (but not nearly as much as in UG admissions). It's odd because one would think that being Asian would help you add diversity to the class since schools report Asians in their minority statistics, but I highly doubt that this is the case. No school wants to be known as the "Asian school" (like the UCs) so you would think they would maintain a soft cap on the number of Asians admitted (I have no statistics to back this up). Likewise, no school wants to be known as the "all white school" either, but the "cap" on white students will obviously be much higher than on Asians so it may be more beneficial to be seen as white. Now, this should only affect you late in the cycle, when that "cap" may already have been met or is close to being met. If you're applying early I don't think it will make any difference if you disclose or not. Furthermore, if your numbers and softs are great you don't have much to worry about (unless, again, your applying too late). Now, I plan on applying early but am still apprehensive to disclose my ethnicity because I'm a borderline candidate (splitter). I'm guessing that they are less forgiving to Asian splitters, however my many past experiences with racism may very well be skewing my perception of the process.


Lol, glad people are obsessing over that big ominous ethnicity check box. As if law schools care unless you're a URM. Get over yourself.

:lol: No need to be a snarky little ass. Your experience as an 0L certainly has garnered you a great deal of insight into the fine workings of law school admissions, I'm sure, but I think I might need some more substantive proof. As for this "get over yourself" comment, I'm not really how I'm being pompous in the slightest. If you think the claim that law schools discriminate is, on its face, asinine then you're laughably ignorant.

User avatar
Bildungsroman
Posts: 5548
Joined: Sun Apr 11, 2010 2:42 pm

Re: Should I Say that I am Chinese?

Postby Bildungsroman » Mon Aug 01, 2011 11:24 am

ahduth wrote:Lol, glad people are obsessing over that big ominous ethnicity check box. As if law schools care unless you're a URM. Get over yourself.

Like I said, undergrad admissions at elite universities give more than enough reason to be apprehensive about the effects of checking the "Asian" box on applications. Just because someone is worried the same might hold true in law school admissions does not make one unreasonably self-absorbed.

User avatar
ahduth
Posts: 2468
Joined: Wed Sep 29, 2010 10:55 am

Re: Should I Say that I am Chinese?

Postby ahduth » Mon Aug 01, 2011 12:18 pm

Bildungsroman wrote:
ahduth wrote:Lol, glad people are obsessing over that big ominous ethnicity check box. As if law schools care unless you're a URM. Get over yourself.

Like I said, undergrad admissions at elite universities give more than enough reason to be apprehensive about the effects of checking the "Asian" box on applications. Just because someone is worried the same might hold true in law school admissions does not make one unreasonably self-absorbed.


Sorry, I just find the idea that Asians, South Asian or otherwise, are over-represented in law schools to be pretty suspect. Although marking South Asian or Asian or whatever they had on their app could be what got me dinged from Stanford. Who knew Dean Deal was a closet racist? :shock:

thederangedwang
Posts: 1124
Joined: Tue Jul 12, 2011 9:44 pm

.

Postby thederangedwang » Mon Aug 01, 2011 1:11 pm

.
Last edited by thederangedwang on Thu Dec 17, 2015 12:35 am, edited 1 time in total.

firemed
Posts: 1195
Joined: Wed Aug 11, 2010 7:36 pm

Re: Should I Say that I am Chinese?

Postby firemed » Mon Aug 01, 2011 1:34 pm

ahduth wrote:
Sorry, I just find the idea that Asians, South Asian or otherwise, are over-represented in law schools to be pretty suspect. Although marking South Asian or Asian or whatever they had on their app could be what got me dinged from Stanford. Who knew Dean Deal was a closet racist? :shock:


So... Asians make up nearly 10% of total law school enrollment (see LSAC for confirmation if you want). But Asians make up only 4.4% of the total population (Check US Census for confirmation). Therefore they are overrepresented compared to their contribution to the entire population.

User avatar
soj
Posts: 7735
Joined: Sat Jan 16, 2010 11:10 pm

Re: Should I Say that I am Chinese?

Postby soj » Mon Aug 01, 2011 2:10 pm

thederangedwang wrote:pardon my grammar, i am slaughtering my cat for dinner right now

:lol:

Don't worry about it. Being categorized as Chinese doesn't disadvantage you any more than being categorized as Asian, which schools will already to based on your last name.

And I'm not convinced ORMs are worse off than white applicants in law school admissions. It's possible that application readers are latently racist. Maybe they consider an Asian pianist who is good at math less accomplished than a white pianist who is good at math because they'll think of the latter more as an individual.

But let's face it, softs don't really matter. In most cases, you're getting in based on your numbers.

firemed
Posts: 1195
Joined: Wed Aug 11, 2010 7:36 pm

Re: Should I Say that I am Chinese?

Postby firemed » Mon Aug 01, 2011 2:16 pm

soj wrote:
But let's face it, softs don't really matter. In most cases, you're getting in based on your numbers.


+10000

The only group this isn't true for is URMs. ORMs and Whites just get 90% of their decision made based off LSAT and GPA.

User avatar
ahduth
Posts: 2468
Joined: Wed Sep 29, 2010 10:55 am

Re: Should I Say that I am Chinese?

Postby ahduth » Mon Aug 01, 2011 4:32 pm

thederangedwang wrote:I guess I should clarify my question

my last name is WANG so it is pretty obvious that I am ethnically chinese (plus from my resume where I list that I speak chinese)

My question is not whether or not adcomms would discriminate based on my chinese-ness, but whether, if I were to select the "chinese" category on LSAC, that I would become some "statistic" or quota.

For instance, even though the adcomms could be sure I am chinese, if I don't mark it on LSAC, then they may not, logistically at least, be able to categorize me.

However, if I do, then perhaps I would count to some sort of quota or category or whatever.


So my question doesnt deal with my actual chinese-ness and how it would affect me, but rather, whether my MARKING chinese on LSAC would affect me in admissions


pardon my grammar, i am slaughtering my cat for dinner right now


If you speak Mandarin or some such, I'd play up that angle on your application personally.

They're only putting your application in a different pile if you're an URM, not if you're some other minority. No one cares about that. If that's not actually the case, I'm wondering if I should have claimed to be white, since whites are apparently under-represented. In some instances I claimed I was both... multi-racial should probably get some sort of privileged status.

lawgod
Posts: 465
Joined: Mon Dec 28, 2009 3:22 pm

Re: Should I Say that I am Chinese?

Postby lawgod » Mon Aug 01, 2011 4:35 pm

Hmmm. Should I say I'm chinese? I like chinese food sometimes. And I like mandarin oranges. And my tree has Asian Longhorn beetles. And my river has Asian Carp. (speaking of which, did you hear of this sport "arial bowfishing"? This guy makes the asian carp jump by revving his boat motor, and then shoots them with a bow and arrow and reels them in.)

User avatar
vanwinkle
Posts: 9740
Joined: Sun Dec 21, 2008 3:02 am

Re: Should I Say that I am Chinese?

Postby vanwinkle » Mon Aug 01, 2011 4:52 pm

lawgod wrote:Hmmm. Should I say I'm chinese? I like chinese food sometimes. And I like mandarin oranges. And my tree has Asian Longhorn beetles. And my river has Asian Carp. (speaking of which, did you hear of this sport "arial bowfishing"? This guy makes the asian carp jump by revving his boat motor, and then shoots them with a bow and arrow and reels them in.)

Image

Stop trolling. Especially if it sounds like race-baiting. You'll still get banned, even if it's just for the lulz.

Gorges
Posts: 42
Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2011 3:53 pm

Re: Should I Say that I am Chinese?

Postby Gorges » Mon Aug 01, 2011 6:31 pm

thederangedwang wrote:pardon my grammar, i am slaughtering my cat for dinner right now


Classic. :)

In all honesty, it probably doesn't matter. If you don't indicate it on LSAC, there is the possibility that some admissions people may look at your unchecked race box and wonder why you didn't check it if the rest of your application implies that you are actually Chinese, which may cause raised eyebrows.

Again, probably doesn't matter. Good luck to you!

User avatar
acrossthelake
Posts: 4432
Joined: Sat May 16, 2009 5:27 pm

Re: Should I Say that I am Chinese?

Postby acrossthelake » Tue Aug 02, 2011 1:03 am

I believe I actually brought this topic up when I was applying, and from what research I did do, didn't find too much evidence of it at the law school level. There's at least none of the quota-type discrimination that the UC undergrads used to practice, and your last name will doom you to whatever individual racism you could possibly receive anyway.

User avatar
Tiago Splitter
Posts: 15487
Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2011 1:20 am

Re: Should I Say that I am Chinese?

Postby Tiago Splitter » Tue Aug 02, 2011 1:14 am

acrossthelake wrote:I believe I actually brought this topic up when I was applying, and from what research I did do, didn't find too much evidence of it at the law school level. There's at least none of the quota-type discrimination that the UC undergrads used to practice, and your last name will doom you to whatever individual racism you could possibly receive anyway.


Was the institutional racism a real thing? I only ask as one of seven white graduates of UC Irvine (all numbers approximate).




Return to “Law School Admissions Forum”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Yahoo [Bot] and 1 guest