Do I have a good shot at any decent law schools?

(Applications Advice, Letters of Recommendation . . . )
keithsweats
Posts: 5
Joined: Mon Jul 25, 2011 1:11 pm

Do I have a good shot at any decent law schools?

Postby keithsweats » Mon Jul 25, 2011 1:26 pm

I took the LSAT in June and scored a 167. What kills me is that I studied for about 8 months intensely. Took a course, went through the bibles, took a TON of practice tests. I know some people come to TLS without having given their all to the LSAT, but I really think I did, and topping out at 167 is depressing. My practice average was a 169/170 (highest ever was just a 171), and I know most people drop a few points on the real thing.

My UGPA from an elite school rated just below HYP is about 4.1 (on the LSDAS scale), but I think a 167 basically shuts me out of the T-14 (probably T-20, as well).

My softs are anemic. A few undergrad internships, no extracurriculars, paralegal for a year out of undergrad and some volunteer tutoring with underprivileged kids (post-grad). I recently got a fellowship that will send me abroad, but it's non-Rhodes/Fullbright.

What halfway decent school would I have a good shot at as my profile stands right now? By halfway decent, I mean a school that would give me a reasonable shot at a career in New York or D.C...

Also, if I do retake, how do I get over the high 160s hump? What's the lowest score bump that would substantially increase my odds in the T-20?

User avatar
Hawkeye Pierce
Posts: 1261
Joined: Tue Sep 21, 2010 12:18 am

Re: Do I have a good shot at any decent law schools?

Postby Hawkeye Pierce » Mon Jul 25, 2011 1:28 pm

Of course you do... With that GPA you have a legitimate shot at some T-14 schools. Check through Lawschoolnumbers.com to see what your chances are at various schools. I do know, however, that with an ED you'd more-or-less be an autoadmit at schools like Michigan and UVA.

User avatar
Glock
Posts: 395
Joined: Sat Jul 02, 2011 6:48 pm

Re: Do I have a good shot at any decent law schools?

Postby Glock » Mon Jul 25, 2011 1:36 pm

The obvious answer is retake and enjoy YH. Schools you have a decent chance at right now:

Stanford 50/50
Boalt- IN
MVP- IN
anything lower than MVP- IN with fat cash


Stanford is not totally predictable, but there are more than several 167s that got in with sterling GPAs. Your application might even be worth a shot at YH, it has happened before.

CanadianWolf
Posts: 10439
Joined: Wed Mar 24, 2010 4:54 pm

Re: Do I have a good shot at any decent law schools?

Postby CanadianWolf » Mon Jul 25, 2011 1:40 pm

I disagree with predictions posted above. UCal-Berkeley, for example, is not a certainty, although your odds are above the typical acceptance rate of 10%.

kaiser
Posts: 2940
Joined: Mon May 09, 2011 11:34 pm

Re: Do I have a good shot at any decent law schools?

Postby kaiser » Mon Jul 25, 2011 1:43 pm

With such an awesome GPA from a top school, and a very respectable LSAT score, you definitely have a shot at T14 schools. You didn't drop the ball at all. It is very common for people to score 2 or 3 below their practice average on the real thing. I would say apply to all the lower T14's, and I'm sure some will accept you.

bhan87
Posts: 850
Joined: Mon Mar 12, 2007 8:08 pm

Re: Do I have a good shot at any decent law schools?

Postby bhan87 » Mon Jul 25, 2011 1:45 pm

Glock wrote:The obvious answer is retake and enjoy YH. Schools you have a decent chance at right now:

Stanford 50/50
Boalt- IN
MVP- IN
anything lower than MVP- IN with fat cash


Stanford is not totally predictable, but there are more than several 167s that got in with sterling GPAs. Your application might even be worth a shot at YH, it has happened before.


I wouldn't say Boalt is a definitive In. They're a pretty big black box as well (browsing through the graphs of Boalt, you'll see red all over the place, even at the 3.9+ / 170+ range)

MVP is your target
Cornell is definitely in

You'll get into decent schools (including T-14s), but a retake could get you placed into incredible schools (breaking 170 puts you into CCN range, breaking 172 makes you a serious contender at HYS). As it currently stands, however, you still will have some great options.

User avatar
Deuce
Posts: 1048
Joined: Fri Jun 25, 2010 11:12 am

Re: Do I have a good shot at any decent law schools?

Postby Deuce » Mon Jul 25, 2011 1:51 pm

a 167 regardless of gpa is pretty strict WL territory for MVP, even some of the schools on down. As much smoke as there is here being blwon up the OPs ass, someone needed to say it- there's a pretty good chance at a T14 lockout, 167 is below all medians (except Berkeley?). Yes, the GPA is awesome and schools might snag at it. But, if you really want to be sure and position yourself better, then yea retake.

keithsweats
Posts: 5
Joined: Mon Jul 25, 2011 1:11 pm

Re: Do I have a good shot at any decent law schools?

Postby keithsweats » Mon Jul 25, 2011 1:53 pm

I really am not interested in the West Coast. Don't think I'd be a good fit for Boalt (even if I could make the cut), and I know my chances at Stanford are 1 in 5 million. As for Harvard, Yale, and CCN--not even sure working on apps and spending the money is worth it.

I'm not trying to be snobby in my approach, I really want to maintain a level-head. MVP would be a dream (especially Penn), but I'm think that most of their applicants around the 25th percentile have super softs (which I definitely don't have). I just don't see them reaching below their median for an applicant like me... but again, I don't really understand the dynamics of EDing for law schools--if and where it improves one's chances.

A school that I really like is Cornell. I might be one of the rare people who enjoyed visiting Ithaca (had friends at Cornell UG), and I like that their classes tend to be small (especially compared to places like Georgetown). I might even call Cornell my top choice, but again, don't know how competitive I'd be with an LSAT below their median.

At first I thought Fordham would be a good option, but after talking to 2 1L friends there, I'm not so sure. They basically said all but a few URMs were really struggling to find summer employment.

I would put some real thought to going to places like Fordham, GW, BC or BU if I were to get a little $ but I'm thinking that wouldn't happen seeing as my stats are right around their medians.

User avatar
JamMasterJ
Posts: 6688
Joined: Sat Jan 29, 2011 7:17 pm

Re: Do I have a good shot at any decent law schools?

Postby JamMasterJ » Mon Jul 25, 2011 1:55 pm

I'd retake simply because it won't make a big difference as far as the time you submit apps is concerned. Also, the schools that look down at multiple LSATs are mostly out of your league right now anyway. That said, an above 4.0 gpa is rare, and anything can happen

User avatar
Yeshia90
Posts: 988
Joined: Sun Apr 03, 2011 12:23 am

Re: Do I have a good shot at any decent law schools?

Postby Yeshia90 » Mon Jul 25, 2011 1:57 pm

Retake, get a 169, and enjoy HYS. Get a 168 and enjoy CCN. Get a 170, and enjoy lots of $$ somewhere.

bhan87
Posts: 850
Joined: Mon Mar 12, 2007 8:08 pm

Re: Do I have a good shot at any decent law schools?

Postby bhan87 » Mon Jul 25, 2011 2:01 pm

Deuce wrote:a 167 regardless of gpa is pretty strict WL territory for MVP, even some of the schools on down. As much smoke as there is here being blwon up the OPs ass, someone needed to say it- there's a pretty good chance at a T14 lockout, 167 is below all medians (except Berkeley?). Yes, the GPA is awesome and schools might snag at it. But, if you really want to be sure and position yourself better, then yea retake.


I really disagree:

http://michigan.lawschoolnumbers.com/ap ... ,7&type=jd

http://uva.lawschoolnumbers.com/applica ... ,7&type=jd

http://penn.lawschoolnumbers.com/applic ... ,7&type=jd

http://cornell.lawschoolnumbers.com/app ... ,7&type=jd

Search for all 167s that applied with a GPA comparable to OP.

MVP is around 50-50 (making them targets) and Cornell seems like a lock...

keithsweats
Posts: 5
Joined: Mon Jul 25, 2011 1:11 pm

Re: Do I have a good shot at any decent law schools?

Postby keithsweats » Mon Jul 25, 2011 2:02 pm

PSUdevon wrote:Retake, get a 169, and enjoy HYS. Get a 168 and enjoy CCN. Get a 170, and enjoy lots of $$ somewhere.


Is CCN really an option with a 168? I don't even think 168 approaches the 25th percentile for NYU and Columbia (although I know Chicago is slightly lower).

bhan87
Posts: 850
Joined: Mon Mar 12, 2007 8:08 pm

Re: Do I have a good shot at any decent law schools?

Postby bhan87 » Mon Jul 25, 2011 2:03 pm

keithsweats wrote:
PSUdevon wrote:Retake, get a 169, and enjoy HYS. Get a 168 and enjoy CCN. Get a 170, and enjoy lots of $$ somewhere.


Is CCN really an option with a 168? I don't even think 168 approaches the 25th percentile for NYU and Columbia (although I know Chicago is slightly lower).


I don't think 168 will be enough. 170 might do the trick though.

keithsweats
Posts: 5
Joined: Mon Jul 25, 2011 1:11 pm

Re: Do I have a good shot at any decent law schools?

Postby keithsweats » Mon Jul 25, 2011 2:13 pm

I have a slightly interesting family background so maybe playing it up would increase my chances...

I was raised by a single mother, and found out about 3 years ago that my biological father is PR. Have never met him or that side of my family, he moved back to Fajardo on the island, has a new family. My mother is white, and I grew up self-identifying on every government form as white. My last name isn't Spanish and I have no cultural background, just genetics I guess.

Would it be weird or come off as fake to adcomms if I tried to play this angle? I'm sure they've had people lie about their ethnicity in the past, I mean do I need to go down there and get a paternity test (saying this half-jokingly)?

User avatar
Glock
Posts: 395
Joined: Sat Jul 02, 2011 6:48 pm

Re: Do I have a good shot at any decent law schools?

Postby Glock » Mon Jul 25, 2011 2:25 pm

It is unlikely for anyone to doubt you if you look half Puerto Rican. Changing your racial identification can cause questions, but do it and enjoy H. I think if you got documentation about your birth father that would be enough to satisfy any inquiry.

URM cycles can be unpredictable, but you will be a lot better off in school and scholarship chances if you can truthfully identify yourself as an URM.

User avatar
Samara
Posts: 3245
Joined: Wed May 11, 2011 4:26 pm

Re: Do I have a good shot at any decent law schools?

Postby Samara » Mon Jul 25, 2011 2:33 pm

You're definitely in at a T14 somewhere; Cornell is a 93% on LSP. Your softs aren't great, but they aren't horrible either. Certainly good enough to keep you in contention. Add in the fact that this cycle will likely be extra friendly towards splitters and reverse-splitters (such as yourself) and I'd say you're in a good situation for T14. I think even YH is a good enough chance to merit an application, but you're bound to get at least one of MVP, practically a lock at Duke and Cornell, and probably decent schollys at Vandy, GW, etc. With a GPA like that, who knows what you can get!

Phew, there's so much pessimism on these boards sometimes... The worst thing that can happen if you apply to a reach school is that you lose out on a hundred bucks. It's nothing that a few hours at Subway can't solve.

Keeper1125
Posts: 80
Joined: Sat Oct 30, 2010 7:38 am

Re: Do I have a good shot at any decent law schools?

Postby Keeper1125 » Mon Jul 25, 2011 2:38 pm

Apply early, obtain sterling LORs and write an excellent PS and you'll be fine bro. Emphasis on applying early.

RCRARollin
Posts: 40
Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2011 6:18 am

Re: Do I have a good shot at any decent law schools?

Postby RCRARollin » Mon Jul 25, 2011 2:53 pm

I know multiple people with lower UGPA's that got not UVA using EA. If you are really that concerned about T14, I would say ED to UVA. I think your GPA will make your cycle rather unique and would personally apply broadly and early to the T14s. You could also sign up for the Dec. LSAT just for giggled, but I think you're in a fine sport already unless you want HYSCC.

keithsweats
Posts: 5
Joined: Mon Jul 25, 2011 1:11 pm

Re: Do I have a good shot at any decent law schools?

Postby keithsweats » Mon Jul 25, 2011 2:59 pm

RCRARollin wrote:I know multiple people with lower UGPA's that got not UVA using EA. If you are really that concerned about T14, I would say ED to UVA. I think your GPA will make your cycle rather unique and would personally apply broadly and early to the T14s. You could also sign up for the Dec. LSAT just for giggled, but I think you're in a fine sport already unless you want HYSCC.


So you think my GPA would slightly outweigh the LSAT for UVA (ED)? I prefer Michigan, to be honest, for something binding like ED-- would the odds be similar?

Also can anyone weigh in on the half PR bit? Worth mentioning, worth utilizing? As for the question about if I look PR, I wasn't aware that one could look PR--as far as Spanish-speaking places go PR has a population with a lot of European roots. I look like my biological father from the photos I have seen, and he is a white PR.

User avatar
Yeshia90
Posts: 988
Joined: Sun Apr 03, 2011 12:23 am

Re: Do I have a good shot at any decent law schools?

Postby Yeshia90 » Mon Jul 25, 2011 3:13 pm

keithsweats wrote:
PSUdevon wrote:Retake, get a 169, and enjoy HYS. Get a 168 and enjoy CCN. Get a 170, and enjoy lots of $$ somewhere.


Is CCN really an option with a 168? I don't even think 168 approaches the 25th percentile for NYU and Columbia (although I know Chicago is slightly lower).


Almost a lock at NYU:
http://nyu.lawschoolnumbers.com/applica ... ,8&type=jd

Not such a great chance at CLS:
http://columbia.lawschoolnumbers.com/ap ... ,8&type=jd

Looking good at Chicago:
http://chicago.lawschoolnumbers.com/app ... ,8&type=jd

RCRARollin
Posts: 40
Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2011 6:18 am

Re: Do I have a good shot at any decent law schools?

Postby RCRARollin » Mon Jul 25, 2011 5:28 pm

keithsweats wrote:
RCRARollin wrote:I know multiple people with lower UGPA's that got not UVA using EA. If you are really that concerned about T14, I would say ED to UVA. I think your GPA will make your cycle rather unique and would personally apply broadly and early to the T14s. You could also sign up for the Dec. LSAT just for giggled, but I think you're in a fine sport already unless you want HYSCC.


So you think my GPA would slightly outweigh the LSAT for UVA (ED)? I prefer Michigan, to be honest, for something binding like ED-- would the odds be similar?

Also can anyone weigh in on the half PR bit? Worth mentioning, worth utilizing? As for the question about if I look PR, I wasn't aware that one could look PR--as far as Spanish-speaking places go PR has a population with a lot of European roots. I look like my biological father from the photos I have seen, and he is a white PR.


My bad, I also left out lower LSATs as well (meant to say bother their LSATs & UGPAs were lower). I forget the actual dates, but I think you could go ED Michigan and hear back, ED to Virgina and hear back and then ED to GULC within the relevant time frames. However, I think you are underestimating your numbers. Personally I would get my applications out on the first day to the majority of the T14. Your GPA may get you some scholarships to lower T14s and you still have a shot at NYU.




Return to “Law School Admissions Forum”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot] and 5 guests