Richard Montauk's advice inconsistent with TLS's...?

(Applications Advice, Letters of Recommendation . . . )
die Zauberflote
Posts: 120
Joined: Tue Dec 21, 2010 3:12 pm

Re: Richard Montauk's advice inconsistent with TLS's...?

Postby die Zauberflote » Thu Jul 21, 2011 4:09 pm

Desert Fox wrote:I turned in an app with multiple typos, a PS that clearly copypasta'd to every school, and a 2.8 GPA. And I still got into Iowa, IUB and Minn with money.

For my safety school application I wrote "see resume" or "see transcript" for every question. So lazy...full ride.

WestOfTheRest
Posts: 1412
Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2008 11:10 pm

Re: Richard Montauk's advice inconsistent with TLS's...?

Postby WestOfTheRest » Thu Jul 21, 2011 4:16 pm

Desert Fox wrote:
You just stumbled into a great idea. Avoid Yield protect by turning in a shitty app.

I love those keen deductive reasoning skills. hahaha

User avatar
ahduth
Posts: 2468
Joined: Wed Sep 29, 2010 10:55 am

Re: Richard Montauk's advice inconsistent with TLS's...?

Postby ahduth » Thu Jul 21, 2011 6:22 pm

TaipeiMort wrote:Top UG B schools are hard. My top ten UG B-school (BYU) was as hard as the University of Chicago.


I laughed out loud. Sorry. U of C just... they definitely take themselves seriously. It's good that other people take them seriously too.

User avatar
TaipeiMort
Posts: 874
Joined: Tue Jun 02, 2009 11:51 pm

Re: Richard Montauk's advice inconsistent with TLS's...?

Postby TaipeiMort » Thu Jul 21, 2011 7:19 pm

ahduth wrote:
TaipeiMort wrote:Top UG B schools are hard. My top ten UG B-school (BYU) was as hard as the University of Chicago.


I laughed out loud. Sorry. U of C just... they definitely take themselves seriously. It's good that other people take them seriously too.


I was speaking from experience, but comparing the difficulty of other things to the U of C is credited. (Eg. My rectal cancer exam was almost as difficult as the U of C).

NewYorTTTcity
Posts: 3
Joined: Thu Jul 21, 2011 11:49 pm

Re: Richard Montauk's advice inconsistent with TLS's...?

Postby NewYorTTTcity » Thu Jul 21, 2011 11:57 pm

My issue with those saying it's only numbers is that people above the 75% GPA and LSAT at HYS are still being WLed. Unless those people are all LSAT retakers, something else is at play.

While some schools may only care about numbers, not all of us are applying to non-HYS TTT14 schools.

SchopenhauerFTW
Posts: 1793
Joined: Sun Oct 10, 2010 10:22 pm

Re: Richard Montauk's advice inconsistent with TLS's...?

Postby SchopenhauerFTW » Thu Jul 21, 2011 11:59 pm

I smell an alt.

NewYorTTTcity
Posts: 3
Joined: Thu Jul 21, 2011 11:49 pm

Re: Richard Montauk's advice inconsistent with TLS's...?

Postby NewYorTTTcity » Fri Jul 22, 2011 12:03 am

SchopenhauerFTW wrote:I smell an alt.


The only alt is the alternate universe I'm blasting this thread to with my reality cannons.

User avatar
Tiago Splitter
Posts: 15464
Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2011 1:20 am

Re: Richard Montauk's advice inconsistent with TLS's...?

Postby Tiago Splitter » Fri Jul 22, 2011 12:05 am

NewYorTTTcity wrote:
SchopenhauerFTW wrote:I smell an alt.


The only alt is the alternate universe I'm blasting this thread to with my reality cannons.


Thank you Charlie Sheen.

SchopenhauerFTW
Posts: 1793
Joined: Sun Oct 10, 2010 10:22 pm

Re: Richard Montauk's advice inconsistent with TLS's...?

Postby SchopenhauerFTW » Fri Jul 22, 2011 12:09 am

NewYorTTTcity wrote:
SchopenhauerFTW wrote:I smell an alt.


The only alt is the alternate universe I'm blasting this thread to with my reality cannons.

Image
"This guy's alright."

Transfer987123
Posts: 11
Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2011 9:52 am

Re: Richard Montauk's advice inconsistent with TLS's...?

Postby Transfer987123 » Fri Jul 22, 2011 12:18 am

NewYorTTTcity wrote:My issue with those saying it's only numbers is that people above the 75% GPA and LSAT at HYS are still being WLed. Unless those people are all LSAT retakers, something else is at play.

While some schools may only care about numbers, not all of us are applying to non-HYS TTT14 schools.


You are probably just joking, but the only schools that seem to legitimately be black boxes are Y and S (and Berkeley). H is probably the most number conscious school in the T14.

NewYorTTTcity
Posts: 3
Joined: Thu Jul 21, 2011 11:49 pm

Re: Richard Montauk's advice inconsistent with TLS's...?

Postby NewYorTTTcity » Fri Jul 22, 2011 12:29 am

Transfer987123 wrote:
NewYorTTTcity wrote:My issue with those saying it's only numbers is that people above the 75% GPA and LSAT at HYS are still being WLed. Unless those people are all LSAT retakers, something else is at play.

While some schools may only care about numbers, not all of us are applying to non-HYS TTT14 schools.


You are probably just joking, but the only schools that seem to legitimately be black boxes are Y and S (and Berkeley). H is probably the most number conscious school in the T14.


Despite my tone, I actually wasn't joking. Basically, judging by LSN, I have a 90% shot at HLS. I'm wondering what was fatal to the applications of the other 10% on LSN. Obviously, it could be a number of things. I just wonder what it takes to get denied.

My concern (and critique of the "it's only numbers" crowd) stems from this: with a few exceptions the kind of candidate who has a 4.0/179 is also the kind who will wrestle good recs out of professors and slave over a personal statement. In short, I'm guessing it's the type of person who says, "I've already come this far, don't screw this up now" - as well as the type of person who probably has solid softs. Obviously, that's not true for everyone with good numbers, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was the vast majority. I think there's a bit of a selection effect that's not really going to show up just looking at LSN data, which is, I'm guessing, a big source of the "numbers only" logic.

So, I'm wondering if I can just phone it in the next three months or if I really need to buckle down and turn in a polished app. If I felt compelled to go the latter route, I'm guessing that's where Montauk and Ivey would come in.

User avatar
KingMenes
Posts: 88
Joined: Wed Apr 20, 2011 12:15 pm

Re: Richard Montauk's advice inconsistent with TLS's...?

Postby KingMenes » Fri Jul 22, 2011 8:37 am

Apparently, History majors are USEFUL for something that matters to TLSers, like the logical reasoning skills that lead to LSAT success: :arrow:

--ImageRemoved--

Yet, an Economics/History or Economics/Philosophy combo could really help :mrgreen

Oh yeah, someone posted a really good article about America's failing business schools.
In summary, business schools/majors aren't learning shit.... :|

User avatar
downing
Posts: 272
Joined: Tue Jul 20, 2010 2:03 am

Re: Richard Montauk's advice inconsistent with TLS's...?

Postby downing » Fri Jul 22, 2011 8:59 am

I was going to contribute, but I felt myself repeating what others have been saying over and over again on other threads ad nauseam, so blablablablabla.

User avatar
thecilent
Posts: 2506
Joined: Sat Dec 12, 2009 4:55 pm

Re: Richard Montauk's advice inconsistent with TLS's...?

Postby thecilent » Fri Jul 22, 2011 9:32 am

die Zauberflote wrote:May I ask if you are still in college and, if so, what year?

I just finished with my cycle and I am pleased with the results. In many instances I heeded TLS, but sometimes I strayed from the so-called conventional wisdom.

I read all of TLS, Montauk’s book, and many other books on law school preparation and admissions.

As far as admissions go, I don’t like the articles on TLS, nor do I like 99% of the books that are available. I found only two that invariably gave me solid, insightful advice:

Anna Ivey’s book: http://www.amazon.com/Ivey-Guide-School ... 785&sr=8-5

and

Susan Estrich’s book: http://www.amazon.com/How-Get-Into-Scho ... 885&sr=1-1

Also, I believe large sections are outdated and inaccurate, but I would read Law School Confidential and One L, as they do get you excited about law school.

I would strongly advise against taking the time to read any of the following:

The Law School Admission Game: Play Like an Expert by Ann K. Levine

How to Get Into the Top Law Schools by Richard Montauk

Planet Law School II by Atticus Falcon

The Best Law Schools' Admissions Secrets by Joyce Curll

55 Successful Harvard Law School Application Essays by The Staff of the Harvard Crimson

Learn from my mistakes. Do not buy or read these books. Everything you could do to help yourself and more are in the Ivey and Estrich books.

Also, I would advise against much of the advice on TLS. If it ever conflicts with Ivey or Estrich, the women trump. When someone is admitted to law school, they don’t know what admissions liked about their application and what admissions didn’t…they just know that they are in. Perhaps someone just got a full ride to Harvard: their numbers are probably phenomenal, but what did admissions think about their essay? How were their recommendations? How was their resume? People may assume that their application was similarly phenomenal and treat that person’s advice like scripture. But maybe their application sucked and it was just the numbers. Who knows? TLS advice on LS admissions is necessarily the blind leading the blind.

While it is generally true that GPA outweighs you major, if I could rewind time I would have declared a double major. A hard science and a “traditional” area of the humanities that requires a lot of writing (e.g., English, Philosophy, History). I would also have structured my classes in a way that mirrored the classical liberal arts model. I would have earned a B.A. & B.S., tried to graduate Phi Beta Kappa, AND kept my GPA stellar. I would also have sought out a leadership role and a long-term volunteer position. Not only would these things help your application, but they would (I think) help prepare you for law school, lawyering, and life. Even so, I really enjoy school and being challenged. Some people would rather get an easy 4.0 in fashion or business. But that’s not my attitude and I don’t think that that’s an attitude that admissions officers look for.

QF you are an idiot.

User avatar
thecilent
Posts: 2506
Joined: Sat Dec 12, 2009 4:55 pm

Re: Richard Montauk's advice inconsistent with TLS's...?

Postby thecilent » Fri Jul 22, 2011 9:34 am

NewYorTTTcity wrote:
Transfer987123 wrote:
NewYorTTTcity wrote:My issue with those saying it's only numbers is that people above the 75% GPA and LSAT at HYS are still being WLed. Unless those people are all LSAT retakers, something else is at play.

While some schools may only care about numbers, not all of us are applying to non-HYS TTT14 schools.


You are probably just joking, but the only schools that seem to legitimately be black boxes are Y and S (and Berkeley). H is probably the most number conscious school in the T14.


Despite my tone, I actually wasn't joking. Basically, judging by LSN, I have a 90% shot at HLS. I'm wondering what was fatal to the applications of the other 10% on LSN. Obviously, it could be a number of things. I just wonder what it takes to get denied.

My concern (and critique of the "it's only numbers" crowd) stems from this: with a few exceptions the kind of candidate who has a 4.0/179 is also the kind who will wrestle good recs out of professors and slave over a personal statement. In short, I'm guessing it's the type of person who says, "I've already come this far, don't screw this up now" - as well as the type of person who probably has solid softs. Obviously, that's not true for everyone with good numbers, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was the vast majority. I think there's a bit of a selection effect that's not really going to show up just looking at LSN data, which is, I'm guessing, a big source of the "numbers only" logic.

So, I'm wondering if I can just phone it in the next three months or if I really need to buckle down and turn in a polished app. If I felt compelled to go the latter route, I'm guessing that's where Montauk and Ivey would come in.

You'd be surprised how many 4.0/179 kids there are who don't have any ECs andstruggle to fid recs.

die Zauberflote
Posts: 120
Joined: Tue Dec 21, 2010 3:12 pm

Re: Richard Montauk's advice inconsistent with TLS's...?

Postby die Zauberflote » Fri Jul 22, 2011 10:29 am

thecilent wrote:QF you are an idiot.

Sick, bro. Way to add.

ClarDarr
Posts: 122
Joined: Thu Jan 20, 2011 5:26 pm

Re: Richard Montauk's advice inconsistent with TLS's...?

Postby ClarDarr » Fri Jul 22, 2011 10:35 am

KingMenes wrote:Apparently, History majors are USEFUL for something that matters to TLSers, like the logical reasoning skills that lead to LSAT success: :arrow:

--ImageRemoved--

Yet, an Economics/History or Economics/Philosophy combo could really help :mrgreen

Oh yeah, someone posted a really good article about America's failing business schools.
In summary, business schools/majors aren't learning shit.... :|


I like that the two most arguably "related to law" majors do the worst. Not to say its supposed to test legal ability or anything...just kind of a humorous and ancillary thing.

User avatar
Patriot1208
Posts: 7044
Joined: Tue May 18, 2010 11:28 am

Re: Richard Montauk's advice inconsistent with TLS's...?

Postby Patriot1208 » Fri Jul 22, 2011 12:59 pm

KingMenes wrote:
Oh yeah, someone posted a really good article about America's failing business schools.
In summary, business schools/majors aren't learning shit.... :|

Business schools, just like colleges in general, are solely dependent on where you go. College is a waste of money for a lot of people at a lot of universities in general. A lot of shit colleges have business schools. Business schools are just suffering the same fate as a lot of colleges. But vocational majors like accounting and finance are more likely to get you, as an individual, a job. And business schools at good schools generally provide better opportunities than the university as a whole. Wharton, Stern, Olin, Haas, Ross, Mendoza, Mcintire, etc all offer better employment options than their respective universities as a whole. The business school I attend has a median starting salary roughly ~12k higher than the median for the rest of the campus. Not to mention that many companies offer signing bonuses in the range of 5-10k. Now i'm sure the engineering students do just as well, but they are not that numerous.

User avatar
thecilent
Posts: 2506
Joined: Sat Dec 12, 2009 4:55 pm

Re: Richard Montauk's advice inconsistent with TLS's...?

Postby thecilent » Fri Jul 22, 2011 2:08 pm

die Zauberflote wrote:
thecilent wrote:QF you are an idiot.

Sick, bro. Way to add.

No probs, brah

User avatar
vanwinkle
Posts: 9740
Joined: Sun Dec 21, 2008 3:02 am

Re: Richard Montauk's advice inconsistent with TLS's...?

Postby vanwinkle » Fri Jul 22, 2011 2:11 pm

NewYorTTTcity wrote:
SchopenhauerFTW wrote:I smell an alt.

The only alt is the alternate universe I'm blasting this thread to with my reality cannons.

Whaddaya know. He was an alt.

Note the past tense there.

SchopenhauerFTW
Posts: 1793
Joined: Sun Oct 10, 2010 10:22 pm

Re: Richard Montauk's advice inconsistent with TLS's...?

Postby SchopenhauerFTW » Fri Jul 22, 2011 2:17 pm

vanwinkle wrote:
NewYorTTTcity wrote:
SchopenhauerFTW wrote:I smell an alt.

The only alt is the alternate universe I'm blasting this thread to with my reality cannons.

Whaddaya know. He was an alt.

Note the past tense there.

Blamo!

Image

User avatar
Kilpatrick
Posts: 1073
Joined: Sun Dec 06, 2009 2:06 am

Re: Richard Montauk's advice inconsistent with TLS's...?

Postby Kilpatrick » Fri Jul 22, 2011 2:22 pm

I wish alts could be outed just like anonymous abuse

SchopenhauerFTW
Posts: 1793
Joined: Sun Oct 10, 2010 10:22 pm

Re: Richard Montauk's advice inconsistent with TLS's...?

Postby SchopenhauerFTW » Fri Jul 22, 2011 2:24 pm

Kilpatrick wrote:I wish alts could be outed just like anonymous abuse

I've seen it in the past. betasteve (I believe) was kind enough to unmask a user who tried to troll the December LSAT takers.

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=142968

User avatar
deebs
Posts: 221
Joined: Tue Dec 29, 2009 7:52 pm

Re: Richard Montauk's advice inconsistent with TLS's...?

Postby deebs » Fri Jul 22, 2011 2:37 pm

Kilpatrick wrote:If she published the truth no one would buy it because it would just be one page with this graph:

Image

This is the single greatest sentence ever. I almost knocked my laptop off my chair/desk thing laughing so hard.

User avatar
Kilpatrick
Posts: 1073
Joined: Sun Dec 06, 2009 2:06 am

Re: Richard Montauk's advice inconsistent with TLS's...?

Postby Kilpatrick » Fri Jul 22, 2011 2:48 pm

SchopenhauerFTW wrote:
Kilpatrick wrote:I wish alts could be outed just like anonymous abuse

I've seen it in the past. betasteve (I believe) was kind enough to unmask a user who tried to troll the December LSAT takers.

http://top-law-schools.com/forums/viewt ... 6&t=142968


That's awesome, I wish that happened more.

Although to tell you the truth most of the time when an anonymous gets unmasked I have no idea who they are and don't understand why they needed to be MORE anonymous

But its still funny




Return to “Law School Admissions Forum”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests