Serious decisions.

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joefow91
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Serious decisions.

Postby joefow91 » Mon Jul 18, 2011 2:00 pm

So, I'm only a junior in college but I've always wanted to be a lawyer. I know we've all heard about the job prospects of going into law being next to nothing outside of the T-14 and even in the bottom part of the T-14. Last night, I had a conversation with a friend I haven't seen in a while. Her sister went to law school at Cornell and graduated in 2010. She still hasn't found a job that pays even semi-well...I really don't know if I should continue on this path. Is it the economy or is law just done? I mean, with computers and outsourcing, do lawyers even make good money at this point? And given the rate in a decade will lawyers be even worse off? I don't know what to do anymore. Even my older cousin who went to Virginia says he had to look high and low for a good job. And he says people are being laid off now, and he says the work sucks. So, my question is: Should I go to law school? What other jobs are good? Besides medicine...
Thanks,
jf

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citykitty
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Re: Serious decisions.

Postby citykitty » Mon Jul 18, 2011 2:08 pm

The economy sucks for everybody. Do something that you think will make you happy, and don't take on too much debt to get there.

crossingforHYS
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Joined: Sun Nov 01, 2009 10:23 pm

Re: Serious decisions.

Postby crossingforHYS » Mon Jul 18, 2011 2:09 pm

look, go to law school if you want to practice law and enjoy it.

Go look at some cases in court, shadow an attorney and take any pre-law classes your school may have.


Don't go into law with the mindset that you will be making money---b/c even if you do, you won't be that happy if you hate it.

This is not a serious decision...at least not yet. You can always take a year off---so the fact that this is your junior year and you aren't sure what you want in life is fine. Just relax and try to figure out what you like to do....then go ahead and do it.

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cinephile
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Re: Serious decisions.

Postby cinephile » Mon Jul 18, 2011 2:11 pm

Only you can decide if you should go to law school. You've always wanted to be a lawyer, and if you can get into a good school with limited debt, then it would probably be a good choice. Do you want to do medicine? Do you have the necessary pre-requisites for such fields?

scammedhard
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Re: Serious decisions.

Postby scammedhard » Mon Jul 18, 2011 2:17 pm

joefow91 wrote:So, my question is: Should I go to law school? What other jobs are good? Besides medicine...

Should I go to law school? Only you can answer that question, but I am glad you are aware of the issues afflicting the legal profession.

What other jobs are good? I don't know what you mean by "good," but besides medicine, most other healthcare fields like pharmacy, nursing, PA, etc are hiring; also the computer field (my field) is absolutely BOOMING right now, so much so that many believe there is a DotCom Bubble 2.0 in the works.

"What recession? It's boom time again in Silicon Valley"
http://articles.latimes.com/2011/jul/17 ... m-20110717

"As National Employment Stalls, Job Market Booms In Silicon Valley"
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/07/0 ... 93325.html

clbig
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Re: Serious decisions.

Postby clbig » Mon Jul 18, 2011 2:22 pm

Right now, the market is terrible everywhere in every profession. I work in hospitality at a private club that certainly took a hit. Despite the fact that only one person was laid off, we cut back hours for just about everyone and I'm still trying to get my staff back up to 40 hours per week after no raises for four years. The states still have cut backs, and schools are still handing out pink slips.
So no matter where you go or what you do, there are dismal job prospects. You are right that going to a T14 doesn't guarantee you anything. So you really need to decide what is right for you. There are statistics everywhere especially in regard to law school and whether or not it's worth 150K in student loans.
I'm older, have a job, and going to law school part time at night. My loans should be around 50 - 60K, I have no other debt, and I will have a job waiting for me when I'm finished. If you already have a lot of debt and not much work experience, take some time and try to work for a law firm if you can. I worked as a paralegal a few years back and it reaffirmed for me that I would eventually go to law school.
I suggest you take your time making that decision and research other occupations. Law school will always be there.

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fltanglab
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Re: Serious decisions.

Postby fltanglab » Mon Jul 18, 2011 2:23 pm

I'm assuming when you say "besides medicine" you are also indicating a lack of interest in the sciences. If that is the case, you could pursue public policy, graduate/Ph.D study in a chosen field, or switch to something in computers (i.e. engineering).

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kingjones59
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Re: Serious decisions.

Postby kingjones59 » Mon Jul 18, 2011 2:47 pm

Where did your cousin who went to Cornell finish in his/her class? You also have to remember that just “going” to a good law school doesn’t guarantee that you are going to get a good job, there is so much competition in law school for the main reason that when BigLaw firms come to recruit, they take those in the top of their class. They don’t come to Cornell, pile everyone on a bus, and take them to their firm. They usually go after the top 50th percentile for the t-14 and an extremely smaller percentile for the lower schools.
I’m not a mathematician or anything, but if firms only recruit the top-50th, that leaves 50% of people at Cornell who struggle to find a job.
Bottom line is: Bust your ass even harder when you get into law school than you did to get there.

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JamMasterJ
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Re: Serious decisions.

Postby JamMasterJ » Mon Jul 18, 2011 2:54 pm

As far as your question about the future prospects for lawyers, it will probably not reach the level of 2006 or whenever it was super easy (comparatively) to get a high paying job, but it is a cyclical thing and will recover to some degree from ITE

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robotclubmember
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Re: Serious decisions.

Postby robotclubmember » Mon Jul 18, 2011 4:12 pm

citykitty wrote:The economy sucks for everybody.


clbig wrote:Right now, the market is terrible everywhere in every profession.


this myth needs to end. yes it is a terrible economy for everyone, but to suggest that the problems in the legal market are just symptoms of the economy at large is false.

name one other profession that broadly, taken as a whole, has seen a 20% nosedive in starting pay in just one year. bueller? bueller? bueller?


there are opportunities in law but what you are seeing in the legal market is not just a symptom of a poor economy. the legal market is a broken subsystem within the larger system of a broken economy. it's double broken. you should go to law school if you are prepared to accept the risks and you know what you want.

colbarfran
Posts: 47
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2011 11:11 am

Re: Serious decisions.

Postby colbarfran » Mon Jul 18, 2011 7:29 pm

robotclubmember wrote:
citykitty wrote:The economy sucks for everybody.


clbig wrote:Right now, the market is terrible everywhere in every profession.


this myth needs to end. yes it is a terrible economy for everyone, but to suggest that the problems in the legal market are just symptoms of the economy at large is false.

name one other profession that broadly, taken as a whole, has seen a 20% nosedive in starting pay in just one year. bueller? bueller? bueller?


there are opportunities in law but what you are seeing in the legal market is not just a symptom of a poor economy. the legal market is a broken subsystem within the larger system of a broken economy. it's double broken. you should go to law school if you are prepared to accept the risks and you know what you want.


How is the legal profession a 'broken subsystem'? Whats broken about it? honest question I would like to know the answer I keep hearing this but do not truly understand it.

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robotclubmember
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Re: Serious decisions.

Postby robotclubmember » Mon Jul 18, 2011 7:35 pm

Imma copy pasta this shit.

People need to know that law schools are degenerating into pyramid schemes that use your federally-guaranteed student loans as a wealth transfer mechanism so that they can get relieve you of the money you don't even have, without doing you the courtesy of offering decent job prospects. If there are 49,000 new grads and 30,000 new jobs, it's clear that 19,000 students each year are getting absolutely fleeced. There just isn't a nice way to look at it.

Each year now, 19,000 new JDs will have graduated after pouring their heart and soul into the law for three years, after giving up three years of income, and after taking on as much as six digits of debt without any tangible benefit except the hope of getting a job that uses their education, and they will be disappointed in their unemployment or underemployment. This should be considered a scandal. But it's not, because we have this mentality in this country that the college degree is always the right path and anything is possible. Well, anything is possible, but not everything is probable. The odds are bad. If I had known what I know now one year ago, I likely would have made a very different decision. In any case, it's no secret that I actively try to discourage unqualified or insincere applicants from going to law school. Mostly for their benefit though. Odds are they are good people who have just been lured by the Siren song of 98% employment and $160K median salary. Odds are they are good people who wanted to make an honest buck and just got shit information.

Required reading, fine young lad:

http://www.abajournal.com/magazine/arti ... igm_shift/

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-07-0 ... s-20-.html

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142 ... 66666.html

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/09/business/09law.html

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cmckid
Posts: 69
Joined: Sun Jun 05, 2011 11:22 pm

Re: Serious decisions.

Postby cmckid » Mon Jul 18, 2011 10:58 pm

robotclubmember wrote:Imma copy pasta this shit.

People need to know that law schools are degenerating into pyramid schemes that use your federally-guaranteed student loans as a wealth transfer mechanism so that they can get relieve you of the money you don't even have, without doing you the courtesy of offering decent job prospects. If there are 49,000 new grads and 30,000 new jobs, it's clear that 19,000 students each year are getting absolutely fleeced. There just isn't a nice way to look at it.

Each year now, 19,000 new JDs will have graduated after pouring their heart and soul into the law for three years, after giving up three years of income, and after taking on as much as six digits of debt without any tangible benefit except the hope of getting a job that uses their education, and they will be disappointed in their unemployment or underemployment. This should be considered a scandal. But it's not, because we have this mentality in this country that the college degree is always the right path and anything is possible. Well, anything is possible, but not everything is probable. The odds are bad. If I had known what I know now one year ago, I likely would have made a very different decision. In any case, it's no secret that I actively try to discourage unqualified or insincere applicants from going to law school. Mostly for their benefit though. Odds are they are good people who have just been lured by the Siren song of 98% employment and $160K median salary. Odds are they are good people who wanted to make an honest buck and just got shit information.

Required reading, fine young lad:

http://www.abajournal.com/magazine/arti ... igm_shift/

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-07-0 ... s-20-.html

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142 ... 66666.html

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/09/business/09law.html



You really hate your life huh

SchopenhauerFTW
Posts: 1793
Joined: Sun Oct 10, 2010 10:22 pm

Re: Serious decisions.

Postby SchopenhauerFTW » Mon Jul 18, 2011 11:03 pm

Image

I know people who who graduated from t14 schools and have been temping ever since, and I know of people from the third-tier and fourth-tier end who are doing much better. I want to extract something optimistic from that, but... I just can't. My experience and what I've seen = unrepresentative sample. The numbers being reported and splattered around these boards as copypasta still scare the crap out of me. I wish I had known about TLS much sooner. /30-second wave of depression

Edit: Edit.
Last edited by SchopenhauerFTW on Mon Jul 18, 2011 11:26 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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robotclubmember
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Joined: Wed Sep 15, 2010 7:53 am

Re: Serious decisions.

Postby robotclubmember » Mon Jul 18, 2011 11:19 pm

lol. you find the best pictures.

cmckid, nice to see you've given up. you apparently believe i am wrong, and yet, you don't even have the balls to go toe-to-toe using facts. i can't wait to see you losing some crummy PI case in court and resort to heckling opposing counsel, it will look as silly there as it does here. just because i tore your ass to shreds when you tried insisting we're in an economic "recovery" and the economy is "fundamentally okay" doesn't mean you gotta be salty about it. i bid you good fortune sir.

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kingjones59
Posts: 168
Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2011 10:28 pm

Re: Serious decisions.

Postby kingjones59 » Mon Jul 18, 2011 11:28 pm

robotclubmember wrote:lol. you find the best pictures.

cmckid, nice to see you've given up. you apparently believe i am wrong, and yet, you don't even have the balls to go toe-to-toe using facts. i can't wait to see you losing some crummy PI case in court and resort to heckling opposing counsel, it will look as silly there as it does here. just because i tore your ass to shreds when you tried insisting we're in an economic "recovery" and the economy is "fundamentally okay" doesn't mean you gotta be salty about it. i bid you good fortune sir.


You need a hobby, or a girl, or some friends if you get off by "tearing asses to shreds" on a message board.

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robotclubmember
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Re: Serious decisions.

Postby robotclubmember » Mon Jul 18, 2011 11:30 pm

that's just nonsense. you're missing the whole point.

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FeelTheHeat
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Joined: Tue Jan 18, 2011 2:32 am

Re: Serious decisions.

Postby FeelTheHeat » Mon Jul 18, 2011 11:33 pm

I love how big bold letters have become RCM's calling card, like Nando and his toilets of shit.




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