The Value of ED?

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colbarfran
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The Value of ED?

Postby colbarfran » Tue Jul 12, 2011 11:30 pm

My top choice schools are Georgetown, UVA, and Boston College.

My grades (I believe) give me outside chances at these schools with a 3.1 and 170.

Will applying ED give me that extra boost to get me in? Can I ED at multiple schools? and just how binding is an ED, especially one that doesn't give scholarship money?

Or am I dreaming and my grades really don't even make me competitive for these schools anyways?

Thanks for the help everyone :)

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Tiago Splitter
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Re: The Value of ED?

Postby Tiago Splitter » Tue Jul 12, 2011 11:35 pm

It is very binding. You either go or wait and re-apply next cycle.

BC doesn't have ED. ED UVA on September 1st, find out in two weeks if you got in, and if you don't, ED GULC.

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Hawkeye Pierce
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Re: The Value of ED?

Postby Hawkeye Pierce » Tue Jul 12, 2011 11:37 pm

Out of those, UVA would be the only school worth EDing to (because it would be the only one worth paying sticker at).

http://uva.lawschoolnumbers.com/applica ... =3&type=jd

And, yes Tiago Splitter is right. ED UVA Sep 1. There's a chance you'd get in, but I think your LSAT is holding you back a little as a splitter.

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Bildungsroman
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Re: The Value of ED?

Postby Bildungsroman » Tue Jul 12, 2011 11:39 pm

With a 3.1/170 you have a real chance at both UVA and Georgetown if you ED. You can't ED to both at the same time, but UVA gives you an answer within two weeks so you can ED there on Sept 1st, and if they say no then you can ED to Georgetown. An ED is absolutely binding, so don't ED unless you are willing to, once accepted, withdraw all other applications and commit to attending that school even at full price.

jkupps2415
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Re: The Value of ED?

Postby jkupps2415 » Wed Jul 13, 2011 3:50 am

Is the only reason to apply to UVA first because they would return an answer soon? Or is UVA clearly a better choice than Georgetown?

Also, with these same numbers so you think one would be able to apply early November ED to UVA and still have a chance to get in?

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descartesb4thehorse
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Re: The Value of ED?

Postby descartesb4thehorse » Wed Jul 13, 2011 3:57 am

jkupps2415 wrote:Is the only reason to apply to UVA first because they would return an answer soon? Or is UVA clearly a better choice than Georgetown?

Also, with these same numbers so you think one would be able to apply early November ED to UVA and still have a chance to get in?


1. Both.

2. Yes, but then you lose the flexibility to ED somewhere else if UVA WL/defers you. You would not be looking great for an ED to GT in December.

Why would you wait until November though? Is the LSAT a hypothetical and you're not taking until October?

colbarfran
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Re: The Value of ED?

Postby colbarfran » Wed Jul 13, 2011 8:07 am

Applying ED to UVA sounds very appealing if I find in in two weeks and do it on 9/1. I guess I will have to think about the money long and hard though as it is apparent I would not recieve scholarship money and would graduate with 180,000 in debt or so by my best guess. Does anyone have any experience about whether that kind of gamble is worth it? Thanks again..

colbarfran
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Re: The Value of ED?

Postby colbarfran » Wed Jul 13, 2011 8:29 am

Bildungsroman wrote:With a 3.1/170 you have a real chance at both UVA and Georgetown if you ED. You can't ED to both at the same time, but UVA gives you an answer within two weeks so you can ED there on Sept 1st, and if they say no then you can ED to Georgetown. An ED is absolutely binding, so don't ED unless you are willing to, once accepted, withdraw all other applications and commit to attending that school even at full price.


If i got accepted and turned it down and applied somewhere else, just for arguments sake, what are the consequences? How do they prevent you from applying and attending elsewhere?

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descartesb4thehorse
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Re: The Value of ED?

Postby descartesb4thehorse » Wed Jul 13, 2011 8:49 am

colbarfran wrote:
Bildungsroman wrote:With a 3.1/170 you have a real chance at both UVA and Georgetown if you ED. You can't ED to both at the same time, but UVA gives you an answer within two weeks so you can ED there on Sept 1st, and if they say no then you can ED to Georgetown. An ED is absolutely binding, so don't ED unless you are willing to, once accepted, withdraw all other applications and commit to attending that school even at full price.


If i got accepted and turned it down and applied somewhere else, just for arguments sake, what are the consequences? How do they prevent you from applying and attending elsewhere?


In before the daninreallife link.

Basically they blackball you. You don't get either school this year and most likely for subsequent years. Adcomms talk, and I believe lsac now offers them a service to see where certain lsac numbers have deposited. It's easier than ever for them to find out if you broke your binding agreement.

Hypothetically, if neither found out, which is unlikely, it would come up at c&f and prevent you from passing the bar.

So... You feel lucky, punk?

colbarfran
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Re: The Value of ED?

Postby colbarfran » Wed Jul 13, 2011 9:05 am

descartesb4thehorse wrote:
colbarfran wrote:
Bildungsroman wrote:With a 3.1/170 you have a real chance at both UVA and Georgetown if you ED. You can't ED to both at the same time, but UVA gives you an answer within two weeks so you can ED there on Sept 1st, and if they say no then you can ED to Georgetown. An ED is absolutely binding, so don't ED unless you are willing to, once accepted, withdraw all other applications and commit to attending that school even at full price.


If i got accepted and turned it down and applied somewhere else, just for arguments sake, what are the consequences? How do they prevent you from applying and attending elsewhere?


In before the daninreallife link.

Basically they blackball you. You don't get either school this year and most likely for subsequent years. Adcomms talk, and I believe lsac now offers them a service to see where certain lsac numbers have deposited. It's easier than ever for them to find out if you broke your binding agreement.

Hypothetically, if neither found out, which is unlikely, it would come up at c&f and prevent you from passing the bar.

So... You feel lucky, punk?


Nope :)

Thanks for the info.

I believe I will gamble and try for the ED. The price is scary but I think would be worth it in the end for UVA. If I get in, I go!
If not, nothing lost

colbarfran
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Re: The Value of ED?

Postby colbarfran » Wed Jul 13, 2011 12:47 pm

descartesb4thehorse wrote:
jkupps2415 wrote:Is the only reason to apply to UVA first because they would return an answer soon? Or is UVA clearly a better choice than Georgetown?

Also, with these same numbers so you think one would be able to apply early November ED to UVA and still have a chance to get in?


1. Both.

2. Yes, but then you lose the flexibility to ED somewhere else if UVA WL/defers you. You would not be looking great for an ED to GT in December.

Why would you wait until November though? Is the LSAT a hypothetical and you're not taking until October?


Wait so if I ED to UVA and get waitlisted, then it is still binding? What if they waitlist me and I then apply somewhere else and get in with a scholly, can I accept or what?

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bk1
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Re: The Value of ED?

Postby bk1 » Wed Jul 13, 2011 12:53 pm

colbarfran wrote:
descartesb4thehorse wrote:
jkupps2415 wrote:Is the only reason to apply to UVA first because they would return an answer soon? Or is UVA clearly a better choice than Georgetown?

Also, with these same numbers so you think one would be able to apply early November ED to UVA and still have a chance to get in?


1. Both.

2. Yes, but then you lose the flexibility to ED somewhere else if UVA WL/defers you. You would not be looking great for an ED to GT in December.

Why would you wait until November though? Is the LSAT a hypothetical and you're not taking until October?


Wait so if I ED to UVA and get waitlisted, then it is still binding? What if they waitlist me and I then apply somewhere else and get in with a scholly, can I accept or what?


If UVa WL/defers you, you are then released from the binding ED.

colbarfran
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Re: The Value of ED?

Postby colbarfran » Wed Jul 13, 2011 4:23 pm

bk1 wrote:
colbarfran wrote:
descartesb4thehorse wrote:
jkupps2415 wrote:Is the only reason to apply to UVA first because they would return an answer soon? Or is UVA clearly a better choice than Georgetown?

Also, with these same numbers so you think one would be able to apply early November ED to UVA and still have a chance to get in?


1. Both.

2. Yes, but then you lose the flexibility to ED somewhere else if UVA WL/defers you. You would not be looking great for an ED to GT in December.

Why would you wait until November though? Is the LSAT a hypothetical and you're not taking until October?


Wait so if I ED to UVA and get waitlisted, then it is still binding? What if they waitlist me and I then apply somewhere else and get in with a scholly, can I accept or what?


If UVa WL/defers you, you are then released from the binding ED.



ok thank you for clarifying.

I am confused by the ED process though because TLS posters seem very confident in it boosting your chances in admissions. A book I recently read by Ann Levine called the "The Law SChool Admissions game" However strongly advocated not applying binding ED for almost any circumstance and said that it does not in fact increase your chances. What gives?

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bk1
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Re: The Value of ED?

Postby bk1 » Wed Jul 13, 2011 4:26 pm

colbarfran wrote:I am confused by the ED process though because TLS posters seem very confident in it boosting your chances in admissions. A book I recently read by Ann Levine called the "The Law SChool Admissions game" However strongly advocated not applying binding ED for almost any circumstance and said that it does not in fact increase your chances. What gives?


It's a small boost, but it isn't something earthshattering. LSN and anecdotal evidence has shown that ED does do this at most schools and intuitively it makes sense that it would make you a preferable candidate over someone with similar numbers who was RD.

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Samara
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Re: The Value of ED?

Postby Samara » Wed Jul 13, 2011 4:29 pm

bk1 wrote:
colbarfran wrote:I am confused by the ED process though because TLS posters seem very confident in it boosting your chances in admissions. A book I recently read by Ann Levine called the "The Law SChool Admissions game" However strongly advocated not applying binding ED for almost any circumstance and said that it does not in fact increase your chances. What gives?


It's a small boost, but it isn't something earthshattering. LSN and anecdotal evidence has shown that ED does do this at most schools and intuitively it makes sense that it would make you a preferable candidate over someone with similar numbers who was RD.

Also, I imagine all the talk about Virginia's ED love bleeds into perceptions of other school's ED policies.

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bk1
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Re: The Value of ED?

Postby bk1 » Wed Jul 13, 2011 4:34 pm

Samara wrote:Also, I imagine all the talk about Virginia's ED love bleeds into perceptions of other school's ED policies.


That has to do with the fact that UVa takes splitters. If you're not a splitter (or reverse splitter) then ED becomes a lot less appealing. But I don't think it's just a UVa thing even though theirs is strongest, look at NU with sub3.0's, look at the fact that UPenn took a 166 this cycle, look at UMich taking 168's, etc. Whereas at a school like Duke that doesn't really take splitters, ED is not so worthwhile.

Badgers2012
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Re: The Value of ED?

Postby Badgers2012 » Wed Jul 13, 2011 4:43 pm

bk1 wrote:
Samara wrote:Also, I imagine all the talk about Virginia's ED love bleeds into perceptions of other school's ED policies.


That has to do with the fact that UVa takes splitters. If you're not a splitter (or reverse splitter) then ED becomes a lot less appealing. But I don't think it's just a UVa thing even though theirs is strongest, look at NU with sub3.0's, look at the fact that UPenn took a 166 this cycle, look at UMich taking 168's, etc. Whereas at a school like Duke that doesn't really take splitters, ED is not so worthwhile.


Sorry if this is a stupid question, but I'm just wondering, in general, if anyone knows why more schools aren't splitter friendly? It seems to me that if the schools takes an approximately even number of splitters and reverse-splitters it has the same effect on medians anyway? (I don't know how to really factor in for 25th and 75th % and how much weight that carries in comparison)

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bk1
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Re: The Value of ED?

Postby bk1 » Wed Jul 13, 2011 4:52 pm

Badgers2012 wrote:Sorry if this is a stupid question, but I'm just wondering, in general, if anyone knows why more schools aren't splitter friendly? It seems to me that if the schools takes an approximately even number of splitters and reverse-splitters it has the same effect on medians anyway? (I don't know how to really factor in for 25th and 75th % and how much weight that carries in comparison)


I think it just stems from the admissions philosophy present at a given institution (which probably comes from the dean). I mean why does NU care about work experience and other schools don't? Why does NU dip below 3.0 but others don't? Why do MVP dip below 3.5 whereas Berkeley/Duke don't?

While from a numerical standpoint you are right that schools could all out just gun for their medians, most schools do and have GPA/LSAT floors. It probably has to do with some belief that students below a certain number (e.g. 3.0) have a failing that makes it a bad idea to admit them or maybe that they don't like seeing a number less than 3.0 when the incoming class' GPA range is posted.

As for 25th and 75th... look at NU's and WUSTL's TTT 25th percentiles for GPA (they are the 2nd and 1st lowest respectively in the T19, using T19 just because I can). Another thing is that Duke/NU have identical medians yet NU has far lower 25ths (both GPA and LSAT) because they take splitters/reversesplitters and Duke does not.

Badgers2012
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Re: The Value of ED?

Postby Badgers2012 » Wed Jul 13, 2011 4:55 pm

bk1 wrote:
Badgers2012 wrote:Sorry if this is a stupid question, but I'm just wondering, in general, if anyone knows why more schools aren't splitter friendly? It seems to me that if the schools takes an approximately even number of splitters and reverse-splitters it has the same effect on medians anyway? (I don't know how to really factor in for 25th and 75th % and how much weight that carries in comparison)


I think it just stems from the admissions philosophy present at a given institution (which probably comes from the dean). I mean why does NU care about work experience and other schools don't? Why does NU dip below 3.0 but others don't? Why do MVP dip below 3.5 whereas Berkeley/Duke don't?

While from a numerical standpoint you are right that schools could all out just gun for their medians, most schools do and have GPA/LSAT floors. It probably has to do with some belief that students below a certain number (e.g. 3.0) have a failing that makes it a bad idea to admit them or maybe that they don't like seeing a number less than 3.0 when the incoming class' GPA range is posted.

As for 25th and 75th... look at NU's and WUSTL's TTT 25th percentiles for GPA (they are the 2nd and 1st lowest respectively in the T19, using T19 just because I can). Another thing is that Duke/NU have identical medians yet NU has far lower 25ths (both GPA and LSAT) because they take splitters/reversesplitters and Duke does not.


Thanks for the info and it makes sense. Any chance UVA's ED policy is changed this upcoming cycle due to their (assistant?) dean being replaced? Not sure how much that had to do with it, I had just heard that he was really involved on many levels with applicants

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bk1
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Re: The Value of ED?

Postby bk1 » Wed Jul 13, 2011 5:00 pm

Badgers2012 wrote:Thanks for the info and it makes sense. Any chance UVA's ED policy is changed this upcoming cycle due to their (assistant?) dean being replaced? Not sure how much that had to do with it, I had just heard that he was really involved on many levels with applicants


It's possible but I would bet that it stays the same until there is actual evidence that it has changed. I would imagine that the policy/vision put is put in place and that it would take an effort of will from the replacement to change it drastically and that isn't something I would readily expect a replacement to do right away.

colbarfran
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Re: The Value of ED?

Postby colbarfran » Wed Jul 13, 2011 6:40 pm

Thanks for all the info. I will apply ED to UVA. I don't know if a 170 and 3.1 will be enough but I will give it a try.

Anybody know anything about UVA's loan forgiveness program?




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