Do you recommend I declare myself African?

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Blessedassurance
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Re: Do you recommend I declare myself African?

Postby Blessedassurance » Fri Jul 08, 2011 3:58 pm

joncrooshal wrote:
vanwinkle wrote:
joncrooshal wrote:Is African American actually a real race, though? Because then you are saying they are a different race than African Africans.

"African American" refers to racially black people of African origin who live in the U.S. Someone already provided the Wikipedia definition. Just scroll up.


I know. It wasn't a question about admissions. Just a general question. Because it separates them from actual Africans, which makes zero sense to me.


It's simply a politically correct term. In fact you could say white people are not actually "white" and black people are not actually "black" with respect to the color of the skin. Having problems with such technicalities is not an excuse for misrepresentation.

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vanwinkle
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Re: Do you recommend I declare myself African?

Postby vanwinkle » Fri Jul 08, 2011 4:01 pm

bceagles182 wrote:I don't know what else to tell you other than the fact that it's not misrepresentation to say you are you African American when your ancestors are African. It's just not.

It is deliberate misrepresentation when you know that is not the definition of "African American" being used, you know the definition being used does not apply to you, and you check the box anyway. Not liking the accepted definition of the word does not change the accepted definition of the word. If you cannot understand that, then you cannot be a competent lawyer.

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bceagles182
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Re: Do you recommend I declare myself African?

Postby bceagles182 » Fri Jul 08, 2011 4:02 pm

Blessedassurance wrote:
joncrooshal wrote:
vanwinkle wrote:
joncrooshal wrote:Is African American actually a real race, though? Because then you are saying they are a different race than African Africans.

"African American" refers to racially black people of African origin who live in the U.S. Someone already provided the Wikipedia definition. Just scroll up.


I know. It wasn't a question about admissions. Just a general question. Because it separates them from actual Africans, which makes zero sense to me.


It's simply a politically correct term. In fact you could say white people are not actually "white" and black people are not actually "black" with respect to the color of the skin. Having problems with such technicalities is not an excuse for misrepresentation.


For the last time, it is not, has never been, and will never be politically correct to call people AA just because they are black. It is ignorant.

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bceagles182
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Re: Do you recommend I declare myself African?

Postby bceagles182 » Fri Jul 08, 2011 4:03 pm

vanwinkle wrote:
bceagles182 wrote:I don't know what else to tell you other than the fact that it's not misrepresentation to say you are you African American when your ancestors are African. It's just not.

It is deliberate misrepresentation when you know that is not the definition of "African American" being used, you know the definition being used does not apply to you, and you check the box anyway. Not liking the accepted definition of the word does not change the accepted definition of the word. If you cannot understand that, then you cannot be a competent lawyer.


Thanks for the insult, internet tough guy. Very mature.

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bceagles182
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Re: Do you recommend I declare myself African?

Postby bceagles182 » Fri Jul 08, 2011 4:05 pm

I'm sure that resulting to ad hominem in a courtroom will get you far in life.
Last edited by bceagles182 on Fri Jul 08, 2011 4:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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bk1
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Re: Do you recommend I declare myself African?

Postby bk1 » Fri Jul 08, 2011 4:05 pm

bceagles182 wrote:For the last time, it is not, has never been, and will never be politically correct to call people AA just because they are black. It is ignorant.


I'm pretty sure that's been the pc word of choice for a while now...

Though I do find it funny when Americans call black people in other countries African Americans.

23402385985
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Re: Do you recommend I declare myself African?

Postby 23402385985 » Fri Jul 08, 2011 4:06 pm

Blessedassurance wrote:
joncrooshal wrote:
vanwinkle wrote:
joncrooshal wrote:Is African American actually a real race, though? Because then you are saying they are a different race than African Africans.

"African American" refers to racially black people of African origin who live in the U.S. Someone already provided the Wikipedia definition. Just scroll up.


I know. It wasn't a question about admissions. Just a general question. Because it separates them from actual Africans, which makes zero sense to me.


It's simply a politically correct term. In fact you could say white people are not actually "white" and black people are not actually "black" with respect to the color of the skin. Having problems with such technicalities is not an excuse for misrepresentation.


It's a very stupid term.

White people are peach people. Black people are dark chocolate people. Indians are milk chocolate people. We should just stick with food terms for describing races.

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vanwinkle
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Re: Do you recommend I declare myself African?

Postby vanwinkle » Fri Jul 08, 2011 4:08 pm

bceagles182 wrote:
vanwinkle wrote:
bceagles182 wrote:I don't know what else to tell you other than the fact that it's not misrepresentation to say you are you African American when your ancestors are African. It's just not.

It is deliberate misrepresentation when you know that is not the definition of "African American" being used, you know the definition being used does not apply to you, and you check the box anyway. Not liking the accepted definition of the word does not change the accepted definition of the word. If you cannot understand that, then you cannot be a competent lawyer.

Thanks for the insult, internet tough guy. Very mature.

Dude. It's not an insult, it's a fact. One of the key tasks of a lawyer is to interpret documents and laws, and to do so using the established definitions of words. There are a lot of words and phrases in the law used in ways that make no logical sense anymore, but those are the accepted definitions, and you cannot just start using those words or phrases in new ways because you want the world to be more logical than it is.

I am telling you, seriously, that your approach is directly contrary to the job of lawyering. Your approach would lead to you making deliberate misrepresentations, or encouraging your clients to make deliberate misrepresentations, potentially cause financial or criminal harm, and possibly get you fired or disbarred.

You cannot redefine words because you are unhappy with their current definitions. If you find that insulting, you should stop trying to be a lawyer right now.

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Grizz
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Re: Do you recommend I declare myself African?

Postby Grizz » Fri Jul 08, 2011 4:13 pm

Holy shit I just realized I am African American because my ancestors are from the Rift Valley and Olduvai Gorge brb dropping out and reapplying.

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Re: Do you recommend I declare myself African?

Postby berkeleykel06 » Fri Jul 08, 2011 4:14 pm

bceagles182 wrote:For the last time, it is not, has never been, and will never be politically correct to call people AA just because they are black. It is ignorant.


You throw around the word ignorant a lot for a person who's against ad hominems.

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Blessedassurance
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Re: Do you recommend I declare myself African?

Postby Blessedassurance » Fri Jul 08, 2011 4:15 pm

bceagles182 wrote: For the last time, it is not, has never been, and will never be politically correct to call people AA just because they are black. It is ignorant.


They are not "black" actually, but that's besides the point. You should raise these issues with the census bureau not law school admissions committees.

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NYCbound35
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Re: Do you recommend I declare myself African?

Postby NYCbound35 » Fri Jul 08, 2011 4:30 pm

Cavalier wrote:
vanwinkle wrote:
Cavalier wrote:I think if you're a light skinned Libyan you should definitely say you're African American. If you feel uncomfortable, add an addendum that states that you are from Libya, and leave it at that. What's the law school going to do--turn you away once they realize you're a light-skinned Libyan and not a dark-skinned Libyan? Just because the law school can't put a picture of you among a group of white-skinned students discussing some academic subject under a shady tree in their recruitment materials doesn't mean you shouldn't get the benefits of affirmative action.

Well, he'd have to spend the rest of his life avoiding talking about his race. You can get disbarred for lying on your application, even if you only admit to it years later.

It's not a lie. He's from Africa and now he's coming to America; he's African American. Just because his African ancestors may have came to Africa from Europe many generations ago shouldn't make him any less African. This is about diversity after all, not merely judging people by the color of their skin.



Not all definitions can be derived from the word that they are defining. In America, there is a commonly accepted definition of what a football is. If you ordered a football online from Sports Authority and they sent you a soccer ball in the mail, you would be upset and ask for a refund. The soccer ball is a better definition of a "football." It is a ball that is commonly played with using the feet. Hell, in 90% of the world, it is known as a football.

This does not matter; you ordered a very particular thing, and you did not get it. Sports Authority misrepresented itself in selling you the soccer ball and calling it a football.

The American definition of "African American" does not include people from North Africa. That is a fact. Deal with it. OP is not even dark skinned, and is thus not subject to the same discrimination that an African American would be. OP is also not an "under-represented" minority. I should know, I am from one of those countries that share cultural ties with Libya and we are better represented in the legal field than we are in the population. I marked Caucasian. I did not even write a diversity statement (mostly because I lived a typical white-suburban life, minus the looking all white and suburban) If you are Libyan and dark skinned, you probably have some other sub-Saharan ancestry mixed in there. If that were the case, mark down African American and enjoy the boost that you (rightfully) deserve.

Like I said earlier, do not play games with these applications. They will follow you for life.

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vanwinkle
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Re: Do you recommend I declare myself African?

Postby vanwinkle » Fri Jul 08, 2011 4:32 pm

Cavalier wrote:It's not a lie. He's from Africa and now he's coming to America; he's African American. Just because his African ancestors may have came to Africa from Europe many generations ago shouldn't make him any less African. This is about diversity after all, not merely judging people by the color of their skin.

:roll:

You had me until that last line.

afitouri
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Re: Do you recommend I declare myself African?

Postby afitouri » Fri Jul 08, 2011 4:35 pm

So there seems to be a bit of disagreement.

Basically, race is exclusively about skin color?

I have a Libyan citizenship, and Libya was the head of the African Union. Libyans consider themselves part of Africa, not part of the Middle East. They consider themselves African-Arabs, rather than Arabs, because they have a distaste for the Gulf nations.

I am inclined to mark AA and then explain that although I am AA I have light-skin in a statement. What are your thoughts on this?

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bk1
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Re: Do you recommend I declare myself African?

Postby bk1 » Fri Jul 08, 2011 4:37 pm

afitouri wrote:So there seems to be a bit of disagreement.

Basically, race is exclusively about skin color?

I have a Libyan citizenship, and Libya was the head of the African Union. Libyans consider themselves part of Africa, not part of the Middle East. They consider themselves African-Arabs, rather than Arabs, because they have a distaste for the Gulf nations.

I am inclined to mark AA and then explain that although I am AA I have light-skin in a statement. What are your thoughts on this?


--LinkRemoved--)

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vanwinkle
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Re: Do you recommend I declare myself African?

Postby vanwinkle » Fri Jul 08, 2011 4:46 pm

afitouri wrote:So there seems to be a bit of disagreement.

Basically, race is exclusively about skin color?

Race is exclusively about biology, and the divisions are most easily expressed in terms of skin color. It is possible to have black and white ancestors, have a light skin, but still be able to identify as black because you have black ancestry. However, if you have no black ancestry, you cannot honestly identify as black because you're from a geographic region with black people. Race is not about geography, except referring to the geographic origins of that race. That's what "African American" comes from. It comes from the fact that racially black people of the kind being referred to originated in Africa. It doesn't mean everyone from Africa.

afitouri wrote:I am inclined to mark AA and then explain that although I am AA I have light-skin in a statement. What are your thoughts on this?

If you're Caucasian, it makes you look like you can't follow directions. If you actually have some racially black ancestry, then that's fine and what you should do.

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vanwinkle
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Re: Do you recommend I declare myself African?

Postby vanwinkle » Fri Jul 08, 2011 4:48 pm

If you're racially white, you can still write a supplemental "Diversity Statement" that describes your Libyan background and upbringing and how you would add to the diversity of the school. But that's separate from indicating what race you are. You can do that either way.

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Blessedassurance
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Re: Do you recommend I declare myself African?

Postby Blessedassurance » Fri Jul 08, 2011 4:51 pm

afitouri wrote:So there seems to be a bit of disagreement.

Basically, race is exclusively about skin color?

I have a Libyan citizenship, and Libya was the head of the African Union. Libyans consider themselves part of Africa, not part of the Middle East. They consider themselves African-Arabs, rather than Arabs, because they have a distaste for the Gulf nations.

I am inclined to mark AA and then explain that although I am AA I have light-skin in a statement. What are your thoughts on this?


You are not an "AA with light-skin". Why is this so difficult to understand? In any case, carry on and do what you feel is best. It sounds like you did not come here seeking advice but to dabble in nonsense. Carry on.

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swc65
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Re: Do you recommend I declare myself African?

Postby swc65 » Fri Jul 08, 2011 5:02 pm

bk1 wrote:
bceagles182 wrote::roll:

It is incredibly ignorant to just start throwing the term African American at everyone with dark skin.

Black people are black.
White people are white.
African American people are American with African ancestry. Libya is in Africa. End of story.


lol. AA is a term invented by white people in America so they didn't feel racist calling black people black. People with Libyan ancestry living in America are both African and American but they are not supposed to be represented by the term AA. Everybody understands this, even people like OP who are trying to cheat the system, which is why if OP did it he would be willingly misrepresenting himself.



Why do people keep writing this? It was not invented by white people. The term was invented by an AA in the "I Can" poem. Jesse Jackson stole the term from there and he and the black caucus set out on a campaign to popularize it. The term was initially seen as a way for AAs to identify themselves and obtain a little more control over how they are viewed in society. True is doesn't make complete sense but it was supposed to represent the African heritage of blacks.


OP knows the answer to his question. Don't be dishonest or misleading. If you know that calling yourself an AA will make people think something that is not true, you are misleading them.

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Bildungsroman
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Re: Do you recommend I declare myself African?

Postby Bildungsroman » Fri Jul 08, 2011 5:11 pm

afitouri wrote:So there seems to be a bit of disagreement.

Basically, race is exclusively about skin color?

I have a Libyan citizenship, and Libya was the head of the African Union. Libyans consider themselves part of Africa, not part of the Middle East. They consider themselves African-Arabs, rather than Arabs, because they have a distaste for the Gulf nations.

I am inclined to mark AA and then explain that although I am AA I have light-skin in a statement. What are your thoughts on this?

Shut your honky complaint-hole and just check the box you know applies to you that you've been checking your whole life.

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baconpuffs
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Re: Do you recommend I declare myself African?

Postby baconpuffs » Fri Jul 08, 2011 5:13 pm

vanwinkle wrote:
afitouri wrote:So there seems to be a bit of disagreement.

Basically, race is exclusively about skin color?

Race is exclusively about biology, and the divisions are most easily expressed in terms of skin color.

You've clearly never studied any sort of social science approach to race relations. Race isn't anywhere near that concrete.

afitouri
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Re: Do you recommend I declare myself African?

Postby afitouri » Fri Jul 08, 2011 6:35 pm

To everyone resorting to personal insults: address the logic of the argument instead of descending to insults. I originally stated my intentions unless there is overwhelming evidence against my position. Don't get butt hurt over it.

Can someone link to a thread on the Diversity Statement? I am unfamiliar with it.

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vanwinkle
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Re: Do you recommend I declare myself African?

Postby vanwinkle » Fri Jul 08, 2011 6:48 pm

baconpuffs wrote:
vanwinkle wrote:
afitouri wrote:So there seems to be a bit of disagreement.

Basically, race is exclusively about skin color?

Race is exclusively about biology, and the divisions are most easily expressed in terms of skin color.

You've clearly never studied any sort of social science approach to race relations. Race isn't anywhere near that concrete.

In this context the biological/genetic approach is clearly the one being used. "African-American" by definition is someone of partial or full black (Sub-Saharan African) descent. OP does not sound like he is of such descent. Therefore he is not racially "African-American".

You can talk about there being other approaches to defining "race", but they don't apply to the question OP posed.

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Blessedassurance
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Re: Do you recommend I declare myself African?

Postby Blessedassurance » Fri Jul 08, 2011 6:51 pm

afitouri wrote: Can someone link to a thread on the Diversity Statement? I am unfamiliar with it.


http://www.deloggio.com/essays%20&%20ad ... ersty.html

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Emma.
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Re: Do you recommend I declare myself African?

Postby Emma. » Fri Jul 08, 2011 6:59 pm

Blessedassurance wrote:
You are not an "AA with light-skin". Why is this so difficult to understand?




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