Omitting Part of UG transcript

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Kreemo_Kid
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Omitting Part of UG transcript

Postby Kreemo_Kid » Fri Jul 01, 2011 2:40 am

Hello all, I am still an UG entering my junior year but I need advice on a course of action regarding my transcripts. I attended my first two quarters of college at a different UG where my GPA was horrible. My current cummulative GPA at the UG I am attending now is a 3.73. I am a AA male with T14 aspirations and I need to know if it is possible to omit the low GPA transcript from my application. The transcript from my first school was never transferred to my current school so will I be able to escape without including it in my final transcript when applying to law school? I am scared they will somehow find out I attended the school through financial aid records or something and demand that transcript be included. Is this possible? What are my options? Any information appreciated.

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emciosn
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Re: Omitting Part of UG transcript

Postby emciosn » Fri Jul 01, 2011 2:44 am

Yes those classes need to be included. You could get into some trouble with LSAC and whatever schools accept you if you fail to disclose and they find out. Someone is bound to find out. Every college level class taken before LS must be included.

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Jack Smirks
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Re: Omitting Part of UG transcript

Postby Jack Smirks » Fri Jul 01, 2011 2:47 am

Absolutely do not try to omit your past transcripts. Although chances of the school finding out are slim, the bar association absolutely will find out when you attempt to pass your character and fitness exam. If you fail to submit them you're going to run into much more trouble down the line than it's worth, and you could even jeopardize your ability to practice. Do you really want to spend 120k and 3 years of your life to only end up not being able to practice? Don't be dumb.

Kreemo_Kid
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Re: Omitting Part of UG transcript

Postby Kreemo_Kid » Fri Jul 01, 2011 3:19 am

Okay I definitely would not want to risk consequences like those, but I have heard of a lot of people doing this. Am I mistaken?

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l'aviadora
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Re: Omitting Part of UG transcript

Postby l'aviadora » Fri Jul 01, 2011 11:05 am

That isn't the point, OP. Sure, people have done it in the past and they may or may not have been caught. The point is, if you do it, you run a substantial risk of being caught which would immediately disqualify you from any schools that you may have been accepted to based on the false GPA. Worse yet, you could manage to graduate from one of these schools with $200,000 worth of debt and then be denied admission to the bar because of it. Then what are you going to do? You would be completely sunk at that point. Whatever you do, DO NOT RISK THIS.

MRavvel
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Re: Omitting Part of UG transcript

Postby MRavvel » Fri Jul 01, 2011 10:06 pm


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JoeFish
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Re: Omitting Part of UG transcript

Postby JoeFish » Fri Jul 01, 2011 10:24 pm

MRavvel wrote:http://www.security.harvard.edu/resources/references/ferpa-block-information

FERPA>ABA

If this is saying what I think it is, I still don't think it matters, because - and I have no real knowledge of this, I'm just guessing - couldn't they figure out that the person attended the school for, say, 2 semesters, and even if they have no bloody clue what the missing grades are, they'll still know that they weren't submitted?

MRavvel
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Re: Omitting Part of UG transcript

Postby MRavvel » Fri Jul 01, 2011 10:27 pm

JoeFish wrote:
MRavvel wrote:http://www.security.harvard.edu/resources/references/ferpa-block-information

FERPA>ABA

If this is saying what I think it is, I still don't think it matters, because - and I have no real knowledge of this, I'm just guessing - couldn't they figure out that the person attended the school for, say, 2 semesters, and even if they have no bloody clue what the missing grades are, they'll still know that they weren't submitted?


Harvard will not acknowledge the existence of any student with an active FERPA block.

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JoeFish
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Re: Omitting Part of UG transcript

Postby JoeFish » Fri Jul 01, 2011 10:31 pm

Again, fine, Harvard will pretend the student never existed. But if there's any other slip-up, and for some reason they do a particularly thorough or enhanced check, it seems like it would be almost literally impossible to hide an entire year spent at a University, even if the institution itself doesn't say that you attended.

We all agree that it's more trouble than it's worth, right?

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TatteredDignity
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Re: Omitting Part of UG transcript

Postby TatteredDignity » Fri Jul 01, 2011 10:35 pm

Really annoying that the ethical nature of this hasn't even been discussed, only the consequences. But not surprising. Our generation doesn't give a crap about doing the right thing.

/rant

MRavvel
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Re: Omitting Part of UG transcript

Postby MRavvel » Fri Jul 01, 2011 10:35 pm

JoeFish wrote:Again, fine, Harvard will pretend the student never existed. But if there's any other slip-up, and for some reason they do a particularly thorough or enhanced check, it seems like it would be almost literally impossible to hide an entire year spent at a University, even if the institution itself doesn't say that you attended.

We all agree that it's more trouble than it's worth, right?


I definitely agree with that. However, people should know their rights though and most people have NO idea about FERPA.

BTW, there's no background check (that the ABA could do) that could supersede federal law. At least none that I can imagine.


0LNewbie wrote:Really annoying that the ethical nature of this hasn't even been discussed, only the consequences. But not surprising. Our generation doesn't give a crap about doing the right thing./rant

:roll:

If your definition of "doing right thing" involves unnecessarily fucking yourself over then, no, we don't.
Last edited by MRavvel on Fri Jul 01, 2011 10:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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JoeFish
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Re: Omitting Part of UG transcript

Postby JoeFish » Fri Jul 01, 2011 10:41 pm

MRavvel wrote:However, people should know their rights though and most people have NO idea about FERPA.

Quite true. I didn't know about it :shock:

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fatduck
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Re: Omitting Part of UG transcript

Postby fatduck » Fri Jul 01, 2011 10:45 pm

MRavvel wrote:If your definition of "doing right thing" involves unnecessarily fucking yourself over then, no, we don't.

LOL

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Jack Smirks
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Re: Omitting Part of UG transcript

Postby Jack Smirks » Fri Jul 01, 2011 10:46 pm


??? So now you're going to lie to the ABA about how you spent that time you were actually at another College?

MRavvel
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Re: Omitting Part of UG transcript

Postby MRavvel » Fri Jul 01, 2011 10:52 pm

naterj wrote:

??? So now you're going to lie to the ABA about how you spent that time you were actually at another College?


I don't know, that's your choice. This is just information that might be useful for OP to take into consideration.

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TatteredDignity
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Re: Omitting Part of UG transcript

Postby TatteredDignity » Fri Jul 01, 2011 11:03 pm

MRavvel wrote:
If your definition of "doing right thing" involves unnecessarily fucking yourself over then, no, we don't.


Ok, let's change it from the nebulous "doing the right thing" to the simple "being honest". Happy?

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Jack Smirks
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Re: Omitting Part of UG transcript

Postby Jack Smirks » Fri Jul 01, 2011 11:06 pm

MRavvel wrote:
naterj wrote:

??? So now you're going to lie to the ABA about how you spent that time you were actually at another College?


I don't know, that's your choice. This is just information that might be useful for OP to take into consideration.

Well it seems like you're trying to give the impression that a FERPA block at your old school is some sort of loophole to get out of disclosing all of your UG grades before you apply, which it isn't at all. Anything less than full disclosure of your past grades/academic history could come back to haunt you, so it's probably not the soundest advice to act like a FERPA block can protect you from repercussions in C and F.

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Bildungsroman
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Re: Omitting Part of UG transcript

Postby Bildungsroman » Fri Jul 01, 2011 11:09 pm

If you don't submit those transcripts then you're setting yourself up for a good dicking.

scammedhard
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Re: Omitting Part of UG transcript

Postby scammedhard » Fri Jul 01, 2011 11:38 pm


ABA? What does the ABA have to do with any of this? FERPA? Right of privacy? You will waive those rights when submitting your C+F application. You basically will give the C+F board a blank check to investigate whatever the board wants to investigate about you. Read, for instance, the APPLICANT'S CHARACTER AND FITNESS QUESTIONNAIRE for the VIRGINIA BOARD OF BAR EXAMINERS (http://www.vbbe.state.va.us/pdf/LRC&FQuestion.pdf):

I, (Full Legal Name), born at (City, County, State, Country) , on (Date) in furtherance of my application for admission to the bar of Virginia, do hereby swear or affirm that I have read the foregoing document and have answered all questions fully and frankly. The answers are complete and true of my own knowledge. I hereby (a) authorize and request every person, firm, corporation, association, court, school, college, university, other educational institution, governmental and law enforcement and other agencies, including health care professionals and institutions, having control of any documents, records or other writing, or having other information pertaining to me (including but not limited to educational records as defined in 20 USC § 1232g; confidential records; medical records and records concerning advice, care or treatment provided to me; files of bar associations or disciplinary agencies regarding charges or complaints filed against me, formal or informal, pending or closed, or other pertinent data) to furnish to the Virginia Board of Bar Examiners and its agents or representatives, including the National Conference of Bar Examiners, any such writings and information the Board believes may relate to my moral character, professional reputation, and/or fitness to engage in the practice of law, and to permit the Board and any of its agents or representatives to inspect and make copies of such documents, records, and other writings; (b) agree that all information provided by this application, and all other information received by the Board and believed by it to have a bearing upon my moral character, professional reputation, and/or fitness to engage in the practice of law, may be released by the Board at any time, and without liability to the Board, its members, agents, or other representatives, to any investigatory or regulatory body or agency having jurisdiction over admission to the bar or the discipline of lawyers, when such release is considered to be reasonably needed by such body or agency in response to its inquiry relating to my moral character, professional reputation, and/or fitness to engage in the practice of law; and (c) agree that the foregoing shall remain in effect for any future examination for which I may make application to the Virginia Bar. I release the National Conference of Bar Examiners and any person furnishing information in the course of the investigation of my character, professional reputation, and/or fitness to engage in the practice of law from all liability of any kind arising out of the furnishing of such information and documents, except when it is shown that such person was motivated by actual malice. Since this is a continuing questionnaire, I will submit such additional affidavits, documentation, or information as may be requested or as may be required by any change in my situation up to the date of my appearance before the Supreme Court of Virginia to be administered the oath of an attorney and counselor at law. I recognize and acknowledge that making a materially false statement in, or failing to disclose a material fact requested in connection with an application for admission to the bar is a violation of DR 1-101 of the Virginia Code of Professional Responsibility. A photocopy of the foregoing authorization shall be as valid as an original.

OP, I suggest you disclose.

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l'aviadora
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Re: Omitting Part of UG transcript

Postby l'aviadora » Fri Jul 01, 2011 11:47 pm

Wait...this supersedes HIPPA as well? I can't imagine that someones health information would be of any consequence unless there was some matter that required verification. It isn't as if the persons physical health should preclude them from the bar so long as they can provide representation...?

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fatduck
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Re: Omitting Part of UG transcript

Postby fatduck » Fri Jul 01, 2011 11:48 pm

l'aviadora wrote:Wait...this supersedes HIPPA as well? I can't imagine that someones health information would be of any consequence unless there was some matter that required verification. It isn't as if the persons physical health should preclude them from the bar so long as they can provide representation...?

there are very few rights you can't sign away.

scammedhard
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Re: Omitting Part of UG transcript

Postby scammedhard » Fri Jul 01, 2011 11:54 pm

l'aviadora wrote:Wait...this supersedes HIPPA as well? I can't imagine that someones health information would be of any consequence unless there was some matter that required verification. It isn't as if the persons physical health should preclude them from the bar so long as they can provide representation...?

Read the application. Read Section 18. The C+F boards want to know if the applicant has had a history of mental instability, like depressions, alcohol and drug abuse, etc.

Come on guys! You are about to invest 3 years and a giant pile of cash on law school. How can it be possible that this is news to you?




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