Top Law Schools

Anything I can do about my low UG GPA? It's 3.3. I graduated already.

I don't even know how I'm going to get a good academic LOR. I know I can get a good rec from my employer but from a prof...?

Any good strategies for this? I still live near my college so I can definitely go meet and talk to the profs, but what would I tell them?

The one surefire way to make up for your low GPA is a good LSAT.

Once you graduate, your UG GPA is set in stone.

As for academic LORs, I have the same GPA as you and I was able to get a couple good letters. You don't have ANY teachers who know you well enough in a class you got an A in?

law4vus wrote:Once you graduate, your UG GPA is set in stone.

As for academic LORs, I have the same GPA as you and I was able to get a couple good letters. You don't have ANY teachers who know you well enough in a class you got an A in?

I do know some profs. Should I just email them or show up during their office hours and talk to them about my situation or what? How were you able to get good letters?

bk187 wrote:The one surefire way to make up for your low GPA is a good LSAT.

Don't top schools want both good gpa + good lsat?

hereyago wrote:I do know some profs. Should I just email them or show up during their office hours and talk to them about my situation or what? How were you able to get good letters?

If they don't know you very well you'll probably get a stock letter (which isn't a bad thing since most people have average LORs).

I would suggest emailing them saying you would like to meet and talk about having them write a LOR. When you meet with them bring a folder with pertinent stuff to help them write the LOR if they say yes (your resume, papers from the class you had with them, an early draft of your law school PS, etc).

hereyago wrote:

bk187 wrote:The one surefire way to make up for your low GPA is a good LSAT.

Don't top schools want both good gpa + good lsat?

It really depends, but a very high LSAT score + okay GPA will always win out over a low LSAT score and high GPA. Obviously having both is ideal, but if you have to have only one then the high LSAT is better. There will be schools you'll be shut out from because of your GPA like HYS, probably CCN, and some of the lower t-20 that weigh GPA very highly. If you score in the 170s though, you'll get into a very good school.

hereyago wrote:

bk187 wrote:The one surefire way to make up for your low GPA is a good LSAT.

Don't top schools want both good gpa + good lsat?

Depends on the school. Take a look at http://www.lawschoolnumbers.com to see which various LSAT scores can get you into certain schools (for example with a 170+ you have a decent shot of breaking into the lower T14).

law4vus wrote:

hereyago wrote:

bk187 wrote:The one surefire way to make up for your low GPA is a good LSAT.

Don't top schools want both good gpa + good lsat?

It really depends, but a very high LSAT score + okay GPA will always win out over a low LSAT score and high GPA. Obviously having both is ideal, but if you have to have only one then the high LSAT is better. There will be schools you'll be shut out from because of your GPA like HYS, probably CCN, and some of the lower t-20 that weigh GPA very highly. If you score in the 170s though, you'll get into a very good school.

What is CCN?

I'm aiming for the lower T14s, hoping to transfer to the higher T14s.

bk187 wrote:

hereyago wrote:

bk187 wrote:The one surefire way to make up for your low GPA is a good LSAT.

Don't top schools want both good gpa + good lsat?

Depends on the school. Take a look at http://www.lawschoolnumbers.com to see which various LSAT scores can get you into certain schools (for example with a 170+ you have a decent shot of breaking into the lower T14).

Do the numbers factor in URM and things like that? I'm not an URM.

bk187 wrote:

hereyago wrote:I do know some profs. Should I just email them or show up during their office hours and talk to them about my situation or what? How were you able to get good letters?

If they don't know you very well you'll probably get a stock letter (which isn't a bad thing since most people have average LORs).

I would suggest emailing them saying you would like to meet and talk about having them write a LOR. When you meet with them bring a folder with pertinent stuff to help them write the LOR if they say yes (your resume, papers from the class you had with them, an early draft of your law school PS, etc).

To add to this, when I was scrambling around for LORs I asked a teacher who didn't know me that well for one. She was a younger professor with a PhD whom I took a class with over the summer and got an A. She didn't know me too well and had reservations about writing it, but I provided her with some of my coursework I did well on (one being a paper I wrote about a court case) and sat down with her for about an hour as she took notes. She asked me a bunch of questions and got to know me a little bit and ended up writing a really great letter.

Part of it is finding someone who seems like they'll make the effort for you and part of it is being able to convince them to actually do so. Just because you don't have a high GPA or know many professors well doesn't mean you can't get a solid recommendation letter. Part of their job is to write letters for students and you just have to find someone who you think will be able to do the best job for you.

hereyago wrote:

law4vus wrote:

hereyago wrote:

bk187 wrote:The one surefire way to make up for your low GPA is a good LSAT.

Don't top schools want both good gpa + good lsat?

It really depends, but a very high LSAT score + okay GPA will always win out over a low LSAT score and high GPA. Obviously having both is ideal, but if you have to have only one then the high LSAT is better. There will be schools you'll be shut out from because of your GPA like HYS, probably CCN, and some of the lower t-20 that weigh GPA very highly. If you score in the 170s though, you'll get into a very good school.

What is CCN?

I'm aiming for the lower T14s, hoping to transfer to the higher T14s.

Columbia, Chicago, NYU.

And you should be able to break the lower T-14 with a 171+, probably Gtown and Cornell. A 172 or 173 might land you Mich or UVA. As for transferring, don't go to a school with the intent to transfer because there's a high chance you won't be able to (especially at a T-14, where the quality of students is very great).

hereyago wrote:What is CCN?

I'm aiming for the lower T14s, hoping to transfer to the higher T14s.

Columbia, Chicago, NYU

Your transfer plan is stupid (for various reasons such as it wouldn't necessarily make sense to transfer not to mention that 90% of the time you wouldn't even have the possibility to transfer). It also doesn't make sense that you are "aiming for the lower T14s" when you don't even have an LSAT score yet.

bk187 wrote:

hereyago wrote:What is CCN?

I'm aiming for the lower T14s, hoping to transfer to the higher T14s.

Columbia, Chicago, NYU

Your transfer plan is stupid (for various reasons such as it wouldn't necessarily make sense to transfer not to mention that 90% of the time you wouldn't even have the possibility to transfer). It also doesn't make sense that you are "aiming for the lower T14s" when you don't even have an LSAT score yet.

Is transferring that much of a rare occurrence? And are there some statistics on transfer student acceptance rates?

law4vus wrote:

bk187 wrote:

hereyago wrote:I do know some profs. Should I just email them or show up during their office hours and talk to them about my situation or what? How were you able to get good letters?

If they don't know you very well you'll probably get a stock letter (which isn't a bad thing since most people have average LORs).

I would suggest emailing them saying you would like to meet and talk about having them write a LOR. When you meet with them bring a folder with pertinent stuff to help them write the LOR if they say yes (your resume, papers from the class you had with them, an early draft of your law school PS, etc).

To add to this, when I was scrambling around for LORs I asked a teacher who didn't know me that well for one. She was a younger professor with a PhD whom I took a class with over the summer and got an A. She didn't know me too well and had reservations about writing it, but I provided her with some of my coursework I did well on (one being a paper I wrote about a court case) and sat down with her for about an hour as she took notes. She asked me a bunch of questions and got to know me a little bit and ended up writing a really great letter.

Part of it is finding someone who seems like they'll make the effort for you and part of it is being able to convince them to actually do so. Just because you don't have a high GPA or know many professors well doesn't mean you can't get a solid recommendation letter. Part of their job is to write letters for students and you just have to find someone who you think will be able to do the best job for you.

I majored in math and I don't really have much coursework that I can present. Fuck.

hereyago wrote:

bk187 wrote:

hereyago wrote:What is CCN?

I'm aiming for the lower T14s, hoping to transfer to the higher T14s.

Columbia, Chicago, NYU

Your transfer plan is stupid (for various reasons such as it wouldn't necessarily make sense to transfer not to mention that 90% of the time you wouldn't even have the possibility to transfer). It also doesn't make sense that you are "aiming for the lower T14s" when you don't even have an LSAT score yet.

Is transferring that much of a rare occurrence? And are there some statistics on transfer student acceptance rates?

Look at it this way. Depending on where you're transferring to and from, you need to be in the top 10-15% in most cases. Therefore, 85-90% of all law students don't have the ability to transfer, so you could definitely say it's a rare occurrence. And, like I said, being in the top 10% at a T14 is going to be harder than top 10% at somewhere in the T3.

hereyago wrote:

law4vus wrote:

bk187 wrote:

hereyago wrote:I do know some profs. Should I just email them or show up during their office hours and talk to them about my situation or what? How were you able to get good letters?

If they don't know you very well you'll probably get a stock letter (which isn't a bad thing since most people have average LORs).

I would suggest emailing them saying you would like to meet and talk about having them write a LOR. When you meet with them bring a folder with pertinent stuff to help them write the LOR if they say yes (your resume, papers from the class you had with them, an early draft of your law school PS, etc).

To add to this, when I was scrambling around for LORs I asked a teacher who didn't know me that well for one. She was a younger professor with a PhD whom I took a class with over the summer and got an A. She didn't know me too well and had reservations about writing it, but I provided her with some of my coursework I did well on (one being a paper I wrote about a court case) and sat down with her for about an hour as she took notes. She asked me a bunch of questions and got to know me a little bit and ended up writing a really great letter.

Part of it is finding someone who seems like they'll make the effort for you and part of it is being able to convince them to actually do so. Just because you don't have a high GPA or know many professors well doesn't mean you can't get a solid recommendation letter. Part of their job is to write letters for students and you just have to find someone who you think will be able to do the best job for you.

I majored in math and I don't really have much coursework that I can present. Fuck.

Yeah, that's rough. You didn't have any other courses that weren't math? I'm sure you had to take some core courses sometime in your undergrad career, right?

I know at my school, we weren't allowed to take more than 9 credits worth of classes within our majors in a given semester.

Yes, transferring is quite rare (not to mention that, as I said, it doesn't always make sense to transfer).

Here is an overview of transferring written by a student who did successfully transfer: http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 27&t=82937

hereyago wrote:

law4vus wrote:

bk187 wrote:

hereyago wrote:I do know some profs. Should I just email them or show up during their office hours and talk to them about my situation or what? How were you able to get good letters?

If they don't know you very well you'll probably get a stock letter (which isn't a bad thing since most people have average LORs).

I would suggest emailing them saying you would like to meet and talk about having them write a LOR. When you meet with them bring a folder with pertinent stuff to help them write the LOR if they say yes (your resume, papers from the class you had with them, an early draft of your law school PS, etc).

To add to this, when I was scrambling around for LORs I asked a teacher who didn't know me that well for one. She was a younger professor with a PhD whom I took a class with over the summer and got an A. She didn't know me too well and had reservations about writing it, but I provided her with some of my coursework I did well on (one being a paper I wrote about a court case) and sat down with her for about an hour as she took notes. She asked me a bunch of questions and got to know me a little bit and ended up writing a really great letter.

Part of it is finding someone who seems like they'll make the effort for you and part of it is being able to convince them to actually do so. Just because you don't have a high GPA or know many professors well doesn't mean you can't get a solid recommendation letter. Part of their job is to write letters for students and you just have to find someone who you think will be able to do the best job for you.

I majored in math and I don't really have much coursework that I can present. Fuck.

If I were you, I would create a packet of materials to provide each professor. I would print up my transcript (or even better, the grades you got on assignments if they were released to you on a website and are still available) and write up something about why you want to go to law school, why you think you are qualified to do so, etc. Attach your resume - make sure to include campus activities and work you did during undergrad. Pick the right professor - you may find that you can get a better LoR from a professor that gave you a B than from a professor that gave you an A. Request to meet up with him or her during office hours. If you just show up, they may be busy with other students and not have enough time to thoroughly go through what you wish to discuss. To summarize, the packet should include: transcript, why law school statement, and resume.