UK STUDENT QUESTIONS ABOUT APPLYING TO COLUMBIA?

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justwondering123
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UK STUDENT QUESTIONS ABOUT APPLYING TO COLUMBIA?

Postby justwondering123 » Fri Jun 24, 2011 6:09 am

Firstly does it matter about the ranking of your undergraduate institution, mien is currently ranked 42nd :s

Also will a 2.1. (UK grade) suffice for entry say with an lsat of 175.

I got a 2.2. in first year, however theoretically say if i got two firsts in the second and final year, how would this be summed up as a 'superior'?

Am i better of applying after i've graduated i..e on a gap year than whilst im in undergraduate, as then ill have all 3 years worth of results, so if i did get two firsts, it would be more sound, it thats clear?

Thanks guys.

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Doritos
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Re: UK STUDENT QUESTIONS ABOUT APPLYING TO COLUMBIA?

Postby Doritos » Fri Jun 24, 2011 7:46 am

what are you talking about?

xcountryjunkie
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Re: UK STUDENT QUESTIONS ABOUT APPLYING TO COLUMBIA?

Postby xcountryjunkie » Fri Jun 24, 2011 8:20 am

Don't schools completely ignore foreign grades?

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Michaela
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Re: UK STUDENT QUESTIONS ABOUT APPLYING TO COLUMBIA?

Postby Michaela » Fri Jun 24, 2011 9:19 am

justwondering123 wrote:Firstly does it matter about the ranking of your undergraduate institution, mien is currently ranked 42nd :s

Also will a 2.1. (UK grade) suffice for entry say with an lsat of 175.

I got a 2.2. in first year, however theoretically say if i got two firsts in the second and final year, how would this be summed up as a 'superior'?

Am i better of applying after i've graduated i..e on a gap year than whilst im in undergraduate, as then ill have all 3 years worth of results, so if i did get two firsts, it would be more sound, it thats clear?

Thanks guys.


Have you actually taken the LSAT? If not, it's pretty absurd to assume a 175.

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Ginj
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Re: UK STUDENT QUESTIONS ABOUT APPLYING TO COLUMBIA?

Postby Ginj » Fri Jun 24, 2011 9:27 am

justwondering123 wrote:Firstly does it matter about the ranking of your undergraduate institution, mien is currently ranked 42nd :s

Also will a 2.1. (UK grade) suffice for entry say with an lsat of 175.

I got a 2.2. in first year, however theoretically say if i got two firsts in the second and final year, how would this be summed up as a 'superior'?

Am i better of applying after i've graduated i..e on a gap year than whilst im in undergraduate, as then ill have all 3 years worth of results, so if i did get two firsts, it would be more sound, it thats clear?

Thanks guys.


Speak American, boy.

albanach
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Re: UK STUDENT QUESTIONS ABOUT APPLYING TO COLUMBIA?

Postby albanach » Fri Jun 24, 2011 9:30 am

No, the ranking of your UG institution does not matter.

Your UG grade will be assessed by the credentials assembly service and reported to the school as one of superior, above average, average, or below average. As long as you have above average, it's likely to be mostly ignored as part of the acceptance decision. I would not expect a superior designation unless you graduation with a 1:1.

Applying after 2nd year (assuming you raise your grades to get the Above Average designation will probably work out okay.

As others have said, it's a tad ambitious to predict a 175 without having taken the test. Out of every 1,000 test takers just 12 will score a 175 or higher. (Thanks suspicious android).

Are you a US citizen or permanent resident? Curious as to how you will pay for this endeavor. Law school in the US makes the increased tuition fees in England look paltry.

justwondering123
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Re: UK STUDENT QUESTIONS ABOUT APPLYING TO COLUMBIA?

Postby justwondering123 » Fri Jun 24, 2011 10:44 am

albanach wrote:No, the ranking of your UG institution does not matter.

Your UG grade will be assessed by the credentials assembly service and reported to the school as one of superior, above average, average, or below average. As long as you have above average, it's likely to be mostly ignored as part of the acceptance decision. I would not expect a superior designation unless you graduation with a 1:1.

Applying after 2nd year (assuming you raise your grades to get the Above Average designation will probably work out okay.

As others have said, it's a tad ambitious to predict a 175 without having taken the test. Out of every 1,000 test takers just 12 will score a 175 or higher. (Thanks suspicious android).

Are you a US citizen or permanent resident? Curious as to how you will pay for this endeavor. Law school in the US makes the increased tuition fees in England look paltry.


thanks for answering my question.

Say if i was to graduate with a 1.1 but my breakdown was 2.1 in first year (first year doesn't count to overall classification.) and two 1.1. in the second and final years (the years that do count) would this be a superior?
Could one get into a top 5 school or even Harvard, Yale or Stanford with a above average or would it have to be a superior?

No im not well i want to get into a top 5 because it will be easier financially, Harvard would be the easiest due to the availability of Harvard loans to international students. And im sure with a top 5 law school JD job prospects are high, right?

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omninode
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Re: UK STUDENT QUESTIONS ABOUT APPLYING TO COLUMBIA?

Postby omninode » Fri Jun 24, 2011 10:54 am

justwondering123 wrote:Say if i was to graduate with a 1.1 but my breakdown was 2.1 in first year (first year doesn't count to overall classification.) and two 1.1. in the second and final years (the years that do count) would this be a superior?


I'm afraid most people on this forum (including myself) have no idea what this means.

justwondering123
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Re: UK STUDENT QUESTIONS ABOUT APPLYING TO COLUMBIA?

Postby justwondering123 » Fri Jun 24, 2011 10:56 am

omninode wrote:
justwondering123 wrote:Say if i was to graduate with a 1.1 but my breakdown was 2.1 in first year (first year doesn't count to overall classification.) and two 1.1. in the second and final years (the years that do count) would this be a superior?


I'm afraid most people on this forum (including myself) have no idea what this means.


The UK instead of having a GPA works on a three graded honours system.
i.e. 1.1.- 1st class honours- (highest one can get)
2.1 second class honours- first division e.g. b+/a-
2.2. second class honours second division
3.3 third class honours.

anything below is a fail.

:) hope it helped :)

albanach
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Re: UK STUDENT QUESTIONS ABOUT APPLYING TO COLUMBIA?

Postby albanach » Fri Jun 24, 2011 11:05 am

justwondering123 wrote:
thanks for answering my question.

Say if i was to graduate with a 1.1 but my breakdown was 2.1 in first year (first year doesn't count to overall classification.) and two 1.1. in the second and final years (the years that do count) would this be a superior?
Could one get into a top 5 school or even Harvard, Yale or Stanford with a above average or would it have to be a superior?

No im not well i want to get into a top 5 because it will be easier financially, Harvard would be the easiest due to the availability of Harvard loans to international students. And im sure with a top 5 law school JD job prospects are high, right?


Yes, I'd expect two years of 1:1 would be superior.

Trouble is, you still face all sorts of hurdles. Harvard is not an impossible goal for someone with a first, but it's still unlikely just based on the huge number of exceptionally qualified applicants.

Anywhere else is likely to present huge funding challenges. At sticker, a legal education at a T6 will likely cost almost $250,000 if you start in three years.

If you can graduate with a first, there's a host of top law schools in the UK that you could probably attend for less cost. You could then aim for London BigLaw and try and move to your firm's NYC office from there.

Don't be put off following your dream. Just be aware there might be easier routes to your destination.

justwondering123
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Re: UK STUDENT QUESTIONS ABOUT APPLYING TO COLUMBIA?

Postby justwondering123 » Fri Jun 24, 2011 1:06 pm

albanach wrote:
justwondering123 wrote:
thanks for answering my question.

Say if i was to graduate with a 1.1 but my breakdown was 2.1 in first year (first year doesn't count to overall classification.) and two 1.1. in the second and final years (the years that do count) would this be a superior?
Could one get into a top 5 school or even Harvard, Yale or Stanford with a above average or would it have to be a superior?

No im not well i want to get into a top 5 because it will be easier financially, Harvard would be the easiest due to the availability of Harvard loans to international students. And im sure with a top 5 law school JD job prospects are high, right?


Yes, I'd expect two years of 1:1 would be superior.

Trouble is, you still face all sorts of hurdles. Harvard is not an impossible goal for someone with a first, but it's still unlikely just based on the huge number of exceptionally qualified applicants.

Anywhere else is likely to present huge funding challenges. At sticker, a legal education at a T6 will likely cost almost $250,000 if you start in three years.

If you can graduate with a first, there's a host of top law schools in the UK that you could probably attend for less cost. You could then aim for London BigLaw and try and move to your firm's NYC office from there.

Don't be put off following your dream. Just be aware there might be easier routes to your destination.


ahh i see, well hopefully im aiming for a first in the second and final years before embarking on a gap year travelling.

I know its just that im already at law school here in england and its only a mediocre one, i want to have my 'big break' plus i was going to do that i.e. office transfer, but its risky, as if i was to stop working for a international firms ny office , if for any reason i decided to leave or got fired it would be highly unlikely that i would be able to find work as i have no legal qualification to work in the US, hence i would be deported back to the UK.

Just out of question, with a JD from Harvard/Yale/Stanford/Columbia practising commercial/corporate law or even criminal law how much can one potentially earn?

and also do you have any information on the possibilities of funding, apart from Harvard Loans?

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dresden doll
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Re: UK STUDENT QUESTIONS ABOUT APPLYING TO COLUMBIA?

Postby dresden doll » Fri Jun 24, 2011 1:09 pm

You can take out private loans, but you'll need a US cosigner.

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fatduck
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Re: UK STUDENT QUESTIONS ABOUT APPLYING TO COLUMBIA?

Postby fatduck » Fri Jun 24, 2011 1:10 pm

dresden doll wrote:YOU CAN TAKE OUT PRIVATE LOANS, BUT YOU'LL NEED A US COSIGNER.

FTFY

Real Madrid
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Re: UK STUDENT QUESTIONS ABOUT APPLYING TO COLUMBIA?

Postby Real Madrid » Fri Jun 24, 2011 1:15 pm

What makes you want to go to Columbia? Have you ever been to New York?

albanach
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Re: UK STUDENT QUESTIONS ABOUT APPLYING TO COLUMBIA?

Postby albanach » Fri Jun 24, 2011 1:26 pm

If you already have a law degree in (presumably) English Law, you aren't likely to be accepted to a US school for a JD. You could probably seek to do a graduate degree (LL.M).

I have no idea what that would mean for your employment prospects here in the US or in the UK, especially since you would be comparatively young and very inexperienced getting an LL.M directly after undergrad. You might want to ask about that in the legal employment forum.

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Re: UK STUDENT QUESTIONS ABOUT APPLYING TO COLUMBIA?

Postby tvt86 » Fri Jun 24, 2011 2:07 pm

albanach wrote:If you already have a law degree in (presumably) English Law, you aren't likely to be accepted to a US school for a JD. You could probably seek to do a graduate degree (LL.M).


Not true. I have an English law degree and I was accepted to almost all of the US schools I applied to.

justwondering123
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Re: UK STUDENT QUESTIONS ABOUT APPLYING TO COLUMBIA?

Postby justwondering123 » Fri Jun 24, 2011 2:27 pm

tvt86 wrote:
albanach wrote:If you already have a law degree in (presumably) English Law, you aren't likely to be accepted to a US school for a JD. You could probably seek to do a graduate degree (LL.M).


Not true. I have an English law degree and I was accepted to almost all of the US schools I applied to.


ohh cool what schools did you apply to?
albanach wrote:If you already have a law degree in (presumably) English Law, you aren't likely to be accepted to a US school for a JD. You could probably seek to do a graduate degree (LL.M).

I have no idea what that would mean for your employment prospects here in the US or in the UK, especially since you would be comparatively young and very inexperienced getting an LL.M directly after undergrad. You might want to ask about that in the legal employment forum.


This is completely wrong, a student can apply to whatever programme they choose. Plus all the schools i have looked at have stated that if one wants a more long term career in the US e.g. wants to reside in the States and work then a JD is a more efficient route to take rather than the LLM which will limit you in the long run.

albanach
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Re: UK STUDENT QUESTIONS ABOUT APPLYING TO COLUMBIA?

Postby albanach » Fri Jun 24, 2011 2:57 pm

justwondering123 wrote:
This is completely wrong, a student can apply to whatever programme they choose. Plus all the schools i have looked at have stated that if one wants a more long term career in the US e.g. wants to reside in the States and work then a JD is a more efficient route to take rather than the LLM which will limit you in the long run.


I'm happy to stand corrected. I guess US schools are happy to take the cash. Effectively you get to pay $250k for a chance at OCI.

It's still maintain that, if you can graduate with a 1st, working in London then transferring will be a safer and cheaper route to the same end.

justwondering123
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Re: UK STUDENT QUESTIONS ABOUT APPLYING TO COLUMBIA?

Postby justwondering123 » Fri Jun 24, 2011 4:52 pm

albanach wrote:
justwondering123 wrote:
This is completely wrong, a student can apply to whatever programme they choose. Plus all the schools i have looked at have stated that if one wants a more long term career in the US e.g. wants to reside in the States and work then a JD is a more efficient route to take rather than the LLM which will limit you in the long run.


I'm happy to stand corrected. I guess US schools are happy to take the cash. Effectively you get to pay $250k for a chance at OCI.

It's still maintain that, if you can graduate with a 1st, working in London then transferring will be a safer and cheaper route to the same end.


Yes but again your mistaken, according to reports (i've had various meetings about this with my personal tutor at my university) in terms of longevity and sufficiency the JD route is a much better path to take, as then your not simply placing all you've got on that firm, say if that firm fires you? no other firm will take you (hardly likely) you will most likely have to start from scratch again. I think it needs to be remembered that those with a foreign law degree and an LLM will be competing against national students with a FULL law degree. why would a firm want a transfer from another country who has minor knowledge of one of the worlds leading legal systems, over a candidate who has trained for 3 years studying the law and passed the bar with work experience.

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Re: UK STUDENT QUESTIONS ABOUT APPLYING TO COLUMBIA?

Postby Friend1 » Fri Jun 24, 2011 4:58 pm

There is a provision under ABA accreditation standards that allows foreign applicants who have a law degree from their home country to be admitted with advanced standing. You do not necessarily have to take the LSAT (it depends on the school). "Advanced standing" means that the school can accept up to 30 semester credit hours (or equiv) as transfer elective credit which can shave a year off your JD.

Unless you want to limit yourself to practicing law in New York or California you need to earn a JD. An LLM in Comparative Law or similar will give you the prerequisites and should give you the skill set to take the bar in NY or CA but all other states require a JD for you to be eligible to take the bar.

If you are being considered by a school for Advanced Standing you are not in the competitive pool that domestic students find themselves in so a school will look at your credentials in a different way i.e. absolute numbers aren't as critical. Can you succeed in that schools academic environment, are you a good fit? Those are the questions they will be asking rather than does this person meet our median LSAT/GPA standards.

You cannot compare the UK/US grading systems especially as currently you appear to be in an LLB program. UK LLB programs are pretty draconian and the schools that you appear to be interested in will understand the grading system to which you are currently being subjected.

If you apply to a school that will not consider you for admission with advanced standing then the LSAT will be required and you will be considered as part of the competitive domestic pool; however, as you do not have a reportable Grade Point Average, your potential as a law student will be assessed on an individual school's interpretation of your performance in your LLB - the credential assembly service will help but frankly the schools that you are looking at are very familiar with the UK system. Letters of recommendation will be important but caution your professors to avoid using British understatement!

A long distance call to the admissions office of the school you are interested in would be the best course of action for you. As a number of posters have pointed out you are speaking in a foreign language to most on this site (I'll spare you the usual Churchill quote). The admission staff at Columbia, NYU, Harvard et al will know what you are talking about and should be able to answer your questions.

Funding is a different world. There are few lenders out there willing to lend the large sums you will be looking at if you need to borrow for tuition and living. Any US lender willing to lend will require a US Citizen or Permanent Resident to cosign and since the banking collapse three years ago it is still tough to get approved. You might have better luck in the UK through the student loan system. You cannot borrow from the US government (which most US students do) as you are not a Permanent Resident or Citizen.

Good Luck!

Curry

Re: UK STUDENT QUESTIONS ABOUT APPLYING TO COLUMBIA?

Postby Curry » Fri Jun 24, 2011 4:59 pm

fatduck wrote:
dresden doll wrote:YOU CAN TAKE OUT PRIVATE LOANS, BUT YOU'LL NEED A US COSIGNER.

FTFY

Depends on the school actually. Harvard will let you take out loans without acosigner. That being said, if you don't have a First class final mark, you're pretty much out of the running, regardless of LSAT because a 2:1 is an excellent, not a superior.

Friend1
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Re: UK STUDENT QUESTIONS ABOUT APPLYING TO COLUMBIA?

Postby Friend1 » Fri Jun 24, 2011 5:10 pm

I stand corrected some schools do have institutional loans available. I'll defer to Harvard on their interpretation of foreign transcripts.

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AreJay711
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Re: UK STUDENT QUESTIONS ABOUT APPLYING TO COLUMBIA?

Postby AreJay711 » Fri Jun 24, 2011 5:10 pm

justwondering123 wrote:
albanach wrote:
justwondering123 wrote:
This is completely wrong, a student can apply to whatever programme they choose. Plus all the schools i have looked at have stated that if one wants a more long term career in the US e.g. wants to reside in the States and work then a JD is a more efficient route to take rather than the LLM which will limit you in the long run.


I'm happy to stand corrected. I guess US schools are happy to take the cash. Effectively you get to pay $250k for a chance at OCI.

It's still maintain that, if you can graduate with a 1st, working in London then transferring will be a safer and cheaper route to the same end.


[s]Yes but again your mistaken, according to reports ([/s]i[size=50]'ve had various meetings about this with my personal tutorat my university) in terms of longevityand sufficiency the JD route is a much better path to take, asthen your not simply placing all you've got on that firm, say if that firm fires you? no other firm will take you (hardly likely) you will most likely have to start from scratch again. I think it needs to be remembered that those with a foreign law degree and an LLM will be competing against national students with a FULL law degree. why would a firm want a transfer from another country who has minor knowledge of one of the worlds leading legal systems, over a candidate who has trained for 3 years studying the law and passed the bar with work experience.



What I read.

albanach
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Re: UK STUDENT QUESTIONS ABOUT APPLYING TO COLUMBIA?

Postby albanach » Fri Jun 24, 2011 5:50 pm

justwondering123 wrote:Yes but again your mistaken, according to reports (i've had various meetings about this with my personal tutor at my university) in terms of longevity and sufficiency the JD route is a much better path to take, as then your not simply placing all you've got on that firm, say if that firm fires you? no other firm will take you (hardly likely) you will most likely have to start from scratch again. I think it needs to be remembered that those with a foreign law degree and an LLM will be competing against national students with a FULL law degree. why would a firm want a transfer from another country who has minor knowledge of one of the worlds leading legal systems, over a candidate who has trained for 3 years studying the law and passed the bar with work experience.


I think you misunderstood. I was suggesting that a lateral transfer would be easier not that an LL.M would. I suggested it originally because I did not know that US schools would admit a candidate already qualified for the bar to study a JD.

I am not trying to dissuade you. Only to offer caution against taking on a huge debt burden that leaves you biglaw or bust. Even if you succeed in getting biglaw, your H1B gets you what, six years before you need to find a transfer or get married?

albanach
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Re: UK STUDENT QUESTIONS ABOUT APPLYING TO COLUMBIA?

Postby albanach » Fri Jun 24, 2011 5:52 pm

AreJay711 wrote:What I read.


I don't think the OP is trolling. I think they are at the very beginning of investigating this as a possibility. It can be done - others have done it before, and asking these questions now is certainly the way to approach it.

It's still has the potential to be a long and rocky road.
Last edited by albanach on Fri Jun 24, 2011 5:56 pm, edited 2 times in total.




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