Running a Law Firm like a Business

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glitched
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Re: Running a Law Firm like a Business

Postby glitched » Wed Jun 01, 2011 1:33 am

Maserati91 wrote:
r6_philly wrote:
Maserati91 wrote:
I can't waittt :D


Actually, seeing that you have not had that experience yet, you should treasure the fact that you can wait. l 8)


This shall be the elevator song at my law firm when I make it.. :wink:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tc3DPvbmJTo


i believe that if you have a good plan, then you can do it. but don't expect to represent companies like goldman sachs, mckinsey, or apple. you'll probably represent small people who are looking for relief from personal injury or petty crimes for most of your career. and you'll be putting in monster hours while barely turning a profit. finally when you get a few lawyers on your payroll, you'll still have to spend all your time finding clients, meeting them, begging them to represent them. mergers and acquisitions? i highly doubt you'll ever see that at your own firm. tax work? probably not. patent? unless you yourself have a degree in a hard science, laughable. most likely you'll deal with torts, criminal, and maybe contracts. can you deal with that?

r6_philly
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Re: Running a Law Firm like a Business

Postby r6_philly » Wed Jun 01, 2011 1:36 am

glitched wrote:gotta start small to turn big.


I thought big = 500+ lawyers? It's not very difficult or unlikely to start a hugely successful firm, it is difficult to start a biglaw firm, especially when the industry is so rigid and formulated.

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Maserati91
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Re: Running a Law Firm like a Business

Postby Maserati91 » Wed Jun 01, 2011 1:36 am

glitched wrote:
Maserati91 wrote:
r6_philly wrote:
Maserati91 wrote:
I can't waittt :D


Actually, seeing that you have not had that experience yet, you should treasure the fact that you can wait. l 8)


This shall be the elevator song at my law firm when I make it.. :wink:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tc3DPvbmJTo


i believe that if you have a good plan, then you can do it. but don't expect to represent companies like goldman sachs, mckinsey, or apple. you'll probably represent small people who are looking for relief from personal injury or petty crimes for most of your career. and you'll be putting in monster hours while barely turning a profit. finally when you get a few lawyers on your payroll, you'll still have to spend all your time finding clients, meeting them, begging them to represent them. mergers and acquisitions? i highly doubt you'll ever see that at your own firm. tax work? probably not. patent? unless you yourself have a degree in a hard science, laughable. most likely you'll deal with torts, criminal, and maybe contracts. can you deal with that?


I like tax work.. what about estate planning, commercial tax, bankruptcy tax, etc? I've heard of people who have their own firms

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dr123
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Re: Running a Law Firm like a Business

Postby dr123 » Wed Jun 01, 2011 1:37 am

A lot of Solos do Chap 7

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NYC Law
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Re: Running a Law Firm like a Business

Postby NYC Law » Wed Jun 01, 2011 1:40 am

dr123 wrote:A lot of Solos do Chap 7


ZING

r6_philly
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Re: Running a Law Firm like a Business

Postby r6_philly » Wed Jun 01, 2011 1:40 am

dr123 wrote:A lot of Solos do Chap 7


Most businesses go bk, that's the norm.

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NYC Law
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Re: Running a Law Firm like a Business

Postby NYC Law » Wed Jun 01, 2011 1:42 am

Any idea what type of business has the lowest failure rate?
I'm guessing something super specialized

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Maserati91
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Re: Running a Law Firm like a Business

Postby Maserati91 » Wed Jun 01, 2011 1:43 am

I'm actually becoming really excited.. the idea of owning and being chairman of a successful law firm one day with a lot of attorneys working for you in the middle of Manhattan.. that's the dream I'm gonna chase :P

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dr123
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Re: Running a Law Firm like a Business

Postby dr123 » Wed Jun 01, 2011 1:43 am

Guys I was actually being serious. Most businesses file chapter 11 and most individuals file Chapter 7, you can actually make a decent bit of cash helping people file for chapter 7 and its not incredibly hard work.

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Maserati91
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Re: Running a Law Firm like a Business

Postby Maserati91 » Wed Jun 01, 2011 1:44 am

NYC Law wrote:Any idea what type of business has the lowest failure rate?
I'm guessing something super specialized


Something medical I think, like a dentist or physician practice?

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NYC Law
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Re: Running a Law Firm like a Business

Postby NYC Law » Wed Jun 01, 2011 1:45 am

dr123 wrote:Guys I was actually being serious. Most businesses file chapter 11 and most individuals file Chapter 7, you can actually make a decent bit of cash helping people file for chapter 7 and its not incredibly hard work.


If you were solo wouldn't you still just file Chp 7 (if you didn't create an LLC)?

But yeah it does seem pretty easy. Forms + Paralegals ftw.

r6_philly
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Re: Running a Law Firm like a Business

Postby r6_philly » Wed Jun 01, 2011 1:46 am

NYC Law wrote:Any idea what type of business has the lowest failure rate?
I'm guessing something super specialized


The economy killed my super specialized business. Actually most of the industry. Mine was one of maybe 10-20 reputable ones in the country. Specialized services are even more prone to luck.

r6_philly
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Re: Running a Law Firm like a Business

Postby r6_philly » Wed Jun 01, 2011 1:47 am

Maserati91 wrote:
NYC Law wrote:Any idea what type of business has the lowest failure rate?
I'm guessing something super specialized


Something medical I think, like a dentist or physician practice?


Malpractice insurance hikes are killing many small practices. Again out of your control.

r6_philly
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Re: Running a Law Firm like a Business

Postby r6_philly » Wed Jun 01, 2011 1:49 am

NYC Law wrote:
dr123 wrote:Guys I was actually being serious. Most businesses file chapter 11 and most individuals file Chapter 7, you can actually make a decent bit of cash helping people file for chapter 7 and its not incredibly hard work.


If you were solo wouldn't you still just file Chp 7 (if you didn't create an LLC)?

But yeah it does seem pretty easy. Forms + Paralegals ftw.


My lawyer does Ch 7 for $300. You don't get rich off that.

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Mickey Quicknumbers
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Re: Running a Law Firm like a Business

Postby Mickey Quicknumbers » Wed Jun 01, 2011 2:14 am

Maserati91 wrote:I'm actually becoming really excited.. the idea of owning and being chairman of a successful law firm one day with a lot of attorneys working for you in the middle of Manhattan.. that's the dream I'm gonna chase :P

combined with the godfather tar. Congrats on being the ultimate stereotype sophmore in college business major.

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Maserati91
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Re: Running a Law Firm like a Business

Postby Maserati91 » Wed Jun 01, 2011 2:31 am

Mickey Quicknumbers wrote:
Maserati91 wrote:I'm actually becoming really excited.. the idea of owning and being chairman of a successful law firm one day with a lot of attorneys working for you in the middle of Manhattan.. that's the dream I'm gonna chase :P

combined with the godfather tar. Congrats on being the ultimate stereotype sophmore in college business major.


Don't forget the card..

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_4ZITCPOOf68/T ... qcttcb.gif

dkt4
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Re: Running a Law Firm like a Business

Postby dkt4 » Wed Jun 01, 2011 5:25 am

r6_philly wrote:
dkt4 wrote:this site does a remarkable job of telling people to not be ambitious because you'll probably fail. it's actually pretty amazing how consistent it is.

that said, kinda a silly question.


You are confusing telling people that you will probably fail with telling someone not to be ambitious. Tell people they are not going to get 180 != telling people not to aim for 180.


no, i'm not.

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thesealocust
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Re: Running a Law Firm like a Business

Postby thesealocust » Wed Jun 01, 2011 7:00 am

Maserati91 wrote:I'm actually becoming really excited.. the idea of owning and being chairman of a successful law firm one day with a lot of attorneys working for you in the middle of Manhattan.. that's the dream I'm gonna chase :P


You can't really own a law firm. The reason they're all[FN1] partnerships is because legal ethics rules prohibit certain kinds of ownership structures that screw around with who actually earns money off of a representation and the resulting incentives. Big firms do have attorneys that manage large numbers of associates, but they without exception are standing shoulder to shoulder with more than a handful of partner peers.

The reason, as I keep trying to stress, is that you can't commoditize the law. Even if you get famous nobody will hire your firm for your name and then let all of the work be done by another lawyer. You won't be able to attract top talent with money because top talent already has everything they need (recognition and skill) to generate fees.

In short, a prerequisite for any plan of this nature is being an absolutely fantastic lawyer.

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ahduth
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Re: Running a Law Firm like a Business

Postby ahduth » Wed Jun 01, 2011 8:09 am

thesealocust wrote:The reason, as I keep trying to stress, is that you can't commoditize the law.


Please, someone inform Orrick of this, quick! http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/24/busin ... .html?_r=1

However naive you guys would like to consider the OP, the truth of the matter is that most law firms seem rather poorly run. Strict hierarchies based on seniority that have little to do with actual capabilities, until/unless you make partner. Then, partners who have to run a lot of BD, so aren't necessarily doing the work themselves anyhow - they're shipping it down to their associates. Who from a managerial perspective are an undifferentiated mass of people, "managed" by people who for the most part have never held a job outside the rarefied world of the law.

The idea that clients don't want legal work to be commoditized is fundamentally at odds with their desire to see structurally lower overall legal fees. You seem to be certain that clients will forever pay exorbitant fees into a largely oligopolistic system. I'm not so convinced.

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Paraflam
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Re: Running a Law Firm like a Business

Postby Paraflam » Wed Jun 01, 2011 8:28 am

Maserati91 wrote:I'm actually becoming really excited.. the idea of owning and being chairman of a successful law firm one day with a lot of attorneys working for you in the middle of Manhattan.. that's the dream I'm gonna chase :P


OP next year: "3.0/155, Chances?"

These are the type of people you'll see on JDU in 10 years talking about how shitty their life is compared to what they expected and convincing people to not go to law school.

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Maserati91
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Re: Running a Law Firm like a Business

Postby Maserati91 » Wed Jun 01, 2011 11:49 am

Paraflam wrote:
Maserati91 wrote:I'm actually becoming really excited.. the idea of owning and being chairman of a successful law firm one day with a lot of attorneys working for you in the middle of Manhattan.. that's the dream I'm gonna chase :P


OP next year: "3.0/155, Chances?"

These are the type of people you'll see on JDU in 10 years talking about how shitty their life is compared to what they expected and convincing people to not go to law school.


K

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paratactical
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Re: Running a Law Firm like a Business

Postby paratactical » Wed Jun 01, 2011 12:03 pm

Maserati91 wrote:I'm actually becoming really excited.. the idea of owning and being chairman of a successful law firm one day with a lot of attorneys working for you in the middle of Manhattan.. that's the dream I'm gonna chase :P

Just because people tell you something is unlikely does not mean they're telling you that it's impossible for you to do it.

That being said, you should do some research into how the big firms got their starts and how long it took them to establish their business practices. Flip through the NLJ 250 on wikipedia (LinkRemoved) and check out the dates these firms were founded and the stories of how they started.

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Maserati91
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Re: Running a Law Firm like a Business

Postby Maserati91 » Wed Jun 01, 2011 12:04 pm

paratactical wrote:
Maserati91 wrote:I'm actually becoming really excited.. the idea of owning and being chairman of a successful law firm one day with a lot of attorneys working for you in the middle of Manhattan.. that's the dream I'm gonna chase :P

Just because people tell you something is unlikely does not mean they're telling you that it's impossible for you to do it.

That being said, you should do some research into how the big firms got their starts and how long it took them to establish their business practices. Flip through the NLJ 250 on wikipedia (LinkRemoved) and check out the dates these firms were founded and the stories of how they started.


Yeah I've been doing that since last night, its really interestingg

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paratactical
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Re: Running a Law Firm like a Business

Postby paratactical » Wed Jun 01, 2011 12:05 pm

Maserati91 wrote:
paratactical wrote:
Maserati91 wrote:I'm actually becoming really excited.. the idea of owning and being chairman of a successful law firm one day with a lot of attorneys working for you in the middle of Manhattan.. that's the dream I'm gonna chase :P

Just because people tell you something is unlikely does not mean they're telling you that it's impossible for you to do it.

That being said, you should do some research into how the big firms got their starts and how long it took them to establish their business practices. Flip through the NLJ 250 on wikipedia (LinkRemoved) and check out the dates these firms were founded and the stories of how they started.


Yeah I've been doing that since last night, its really interestingg

So if you're looking at this stuff, you can see why people are saying that it's not really something that one person creates within their lifetime.

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Maserati91
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Re: Running a Law Firm like a Business

Postby Maserati91 » Wed Jun 01, 2011 12:08 pm

paratactical wrote:
Maserati91 wrote:
paratactical wrote:
Maserati91 wrote:I'm actually becoming really excited.. the idea of owning and being chairman of a successful law firm one day with a lot of attorneys working for you in the middle of Manhattan.. that's the dream I'm gonna chase :P

Just because people tell you something is unlikely does not mean they're telling you that it's impossible for you to do it.

That being said, you should do some research into how the big firms got their starts and how long it took them to establish their business practices. Flip through the NLJ 250 on wikipedia (LinkRemoved) and check out the dates these firms were founded and the stories of how they started.


Yeah I've been doing that since last night, its really interestingg

So if you're looking at this stuff, you can see why people are saying that it's not really something that one person creates within their lifetime.


In the most part yes, but if you take an example like boies schiller and flexner, he created it a 237 attorney fir with 10 offices in 14 years.. but he did have a amazing reputation and client base beforehand while in BigLaw




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