Existential Crisis

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confusedbutdriven
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Existential Crisis

Postby confusedbutdriven » Sat May 28, 2011 4:14 pm

My roommates have talked about this site incessantly for the last year as they both applied this cycle. After reading both the pessimistic the sky is falling views on here as well as the sun always shines look on the bright side views, I thought maybe people here would have an opinion.

I was planning on applying next cycle (2011-2012). My numbers are wonderful (175, 3.75). I have 5 C grades on my transcript from when I was a freshman and sophmore in high school and I took community college classes, the rest are A grades. Never thought me being lazy and not trying in class at 14 would come back to bite me. My problem is I want to become an attorney to speak and advocate for those who cannot themselves. I truly want to help people. After talking to my roommates, it seems that this is not always realistic as an attorney. Hence my apprehension.

I have recently been talking to UPenn admissions where they allow people to obtain a 2nd bachelor's in engineering if you do not have a science or math background (social science major over here). With a bioengineering or chemical bioengineering or materials science engineering degree, I believe I can help society in general.

Both options are expensive. I am not factoring scholarships as they are not guaranteed. I believe some are likely, but I still will not factor them in.

UPenn will cost me $65,000 per year (including room and board) for three years. Law school around $70,000 per year for three years.

Lastly, I would like to live securely. I do not need big law money. Ever. If I can help others and it comes, I won't turn it down. But it is not my primary goal. Helping others is. In the Philly/NJ/NYC area I live, to live securely means at least $50,000. The number is actually higher than 50,000, but that is not a bad place to start.

Sorry for my rambling. This decision truly has me confused. Do I head to law school or back to undergrad for engineering? I am 27 by the way, not sure if my age matters.

Edit: I thought I should add I have never struggled at math or science. Actually scored better on my math part of the SAT than verbal. So I am not worried about my ability to grasp engineering concepts.

parsi
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Re: Existential Crisis

Postby parsi » Sat May 28, 2011 4:36 pm

I wouldnt think that another bachelors degree at 30 will allow you to do much more than the one u have now.

Seeing as how the costs are nearly the same, id take the post graduate degree and look into doing public interest work once u graduate

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tea_drinker
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Re: Existential Crisis

Postby tea_drinker » Sat May 28, 2011 4:39 pm

confusedbutdriven wrote:My roommates have talked about this site incessantly for the last year as they both applied this cycle. After reading both the pessimistic the sky is falling views on here as well as the sun always shines look on the bright side views, I thought maybe people here would have an opinion.

I was planning on applying next cycle (2011-2012). My numbers are wonderful (175, 3.75). I have 5 C grades on my transcript from when I was a freshman and sophmore in high school and I took community college classes, the rest are A grades. Never thought me being lazy and not trying in class at 14 would come back to bite me. My problem is I want to become an attorney to speak and advocate for those who cannot themselves. I truly want to help people. After talking to my roommates, it seems that this is not always realistic as an attorney. Hence my apprehension.

I have recently been talking to UPenn admissions where they allow people to obtain a 2nd bachelor's in engineering if you do not have a science or math background (social science major over here). With a bioengineering or chemical bioengineering or materials science engineering degree, I believe I can help society in general.

Both options are expensive. I am not factoring scholarships as they are not guaranteed. I believe some are likely, but I still will not factor them in.

UPenn will cost me $65,000 per year (including room and board) for three years. Law school around $70,000 per year for three years.

Lastly, I would like to live securely. I do not need big law money. Ever. If I can help others and it comes, I won't turn it down. But it is not my primary goal. Helping others is. In the Philly/NJ/NYC area I live, to live securely means at least $50,000. The number is actually higher than 50,000, but that is not a bad place to start.

Sorry for my rambling. This decision truly has me confused. Do I head to law school or back to undergrad for engineering? I am 27 by the way, not sure if my age matters.

Edit: I thought I should add I have never struggled at math or science. Actually scored better on my math part of the SAT than verbal. So I am not worried about my ability to grasp engineering concepts.


My conclusion after reading this is either you are not honest about helping others or you haven't really look at other possibilities.

Assume number 2, my advice is DO NOT GO TO LAW SCHOOL. There are million other ways to help people and given you don't need the big law salary, I don't see why you should put yourself in debt.

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Richie Tenenbaum
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Re: Existential Crisis

Postby Richie Tenenbaum » Sat May 28, 2011 4:41 pm

If this isn't a flame- Apply broadly within T14 (or even T20) and go wherever you can get a full ride (or close to it). If you have a minimal amount of debt, you have a lot more options. You should first talk to lawyers who do different public interest work to see if that matches up with what you want to do though.
Last edited by Richie Tenenbaum on Sat May 28, 2011 4:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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krasivaya
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Re: Existential Crisis

Postby krasivaya » Sat May 28, 2011 4:41 pm

parsi wrote:I wouldnt think that another bachelors degree at 30 will allow you to do much more than the one u have now.

Seeing as how the costs are nearly the same, id take the post graduate degree and look into doing public interest work once u graduate


Wholeheartedly agree. Go to a low-debt law school or look into nonprofit work now. You could probably get a 50k a year job somewhere charitable.

Plus, I think you may have to get an advanced degree in engineering in order to be useful - but I'm not entirely sure.

09042014
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Re: Existential Crisis

Postby 09042014 » Sat May 28, 2011 4:47 pm

Do NOT pay 65K a year for UPenn engineering. Ivy league (other than Cornell) are not good engineering schools. Though Penn ChemE is good.

It's not worth it though. Engineering employers aren't super prestige whores, and even when they do, the engineering prestige is different.

1) Take the general science and math requirements at a community college. The classes are pretty much the same anywhere.

2) What state are you a resident of. Many states have top notch public schools that are amazing at engineering. If are in Michigan, California, Illinois, Virgina, Georgia, Texas, Indiana or Wisconsin you are definitely better off at a public school.

3) Lawyers are helping people is the biggest flame ever. There are so many better ways to help people. Law is a tiny part of Public interest as a whole.

If you do community college (part time while working), then do two years at a good public with instate, instead of 65/K, it'll be less than 65K for the whole degree.

flcath
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Re: Existential Crisis

Postby flcath » Sat May 28, 2011 4:52 pm

Not to push my views on everyone else, but have you considered med school, bro?

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kalvano
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Re: Existential Crisis

Postby kalvano » Sat May 28, 2011 5:32 pm

Get a full ride to the best school you can and go work for Legal Aid. I've been volunteering there for a while, and while some of the stuff they do is pretty basic and boring, a place like that will be your best shot at speaking for people who truly need the help. I'm talking dirt-poor people who are getting well and truly fucked over.

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glitched
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Re: Existential Crisis

Postby glitched » Sat May 28, 2011 10:59 pm

okay seriously here is the best advice:

If your school will allow it for sure and you are willing to do a bachelors in engineering, and if your school is UPenn, then you should definitely, and i mean definitely take Electrical Engineering/Computer Science (most schools have this combined as a single major now i believe) or just computer science. if you're going to do engineering, fuck bioengineering, fuck whatever other engineering, computer science is where it's at.


oh wait... you dont care about money. I don't get that. but whatever. enjoy full ride at T14. don't do engineering.

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Corwin
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Re: Existential Crisis

Postby Corwin » Sat May 28, 2011 11:05 pm

glitched wrote:okay seriously here is the best advice:

If your school will allow it for sure and you are willing to do a bachelors in engineering, and if your school is UPenn, then you should definitely, and i mean definitely take Electrical Engineering/Computer Science (most schools have this combined as a single major now i believe) or just computer science. if you're going to do engineering, fuck bioengineering, fuck whatever other engineering, computer science is where it's at.


oh wait... you dont care about money. I don't get that. but whatever. enjoy full ride at T14. don't do engineering.

What are you talking about? Electrical Engineering and Computer Science are completely different and they aren't a combined major at "most" schools.

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glitched
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Re: Existential Crisis

Postby glitched » Sat May 28, 2011 11:06 pm

Corwin wrote:
glitched wrote:okay seriously here is the best advice:

If your school will allow it for sure and you are willing to do a bachelors in engineering, and if your school is UPenn, then you should definitely, and i mean definitely take Electrical Engineering/Computer Science (most schools have this combined as a single major now i believe) or just computer science. if you're going to do engineering, fuck bioengineering, fuck whatever other engineering, computer science is where it's at.


oh wait... you dont care about money. I don't get that. but whatever. enjoy full ride at T14. don't do engineering.

What are you talking about? Electrical Engineering and Computer Science are completely different and they aren't a combined major at "most" schools.


are you serious? i know at least 5 schools have some combined program of electrical engineering computer science.

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Corwin
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Re: Existential Crisis

Postby Corwin » Sat May 28, 2011 11:10 pm

glitched wrote:
Corwin wrote:
glitched wrote:okay seriously here is the best advice:

If your school will allow it for sure and you are willing to do a bachelors in engineering, and if your school is UPenn, then you should definitely, and i mean definitely take Electrical Engineering/Computer Science (most schools have this combined as a single major now i believe) or just computer science. if you're going to do engineering, fuck bioengineering, fuck whatever other engineering, computer science is where it's at.


oh wait... you dont care about money. I don't get that. but whatever. enjoy full ride at T14. don't do engineering.

What are you talking about? Electrical Engineering and Computer Science are completely different and they aren't a combined major at "most" schools.


are you serious? i know at least 5 schools have some combined program of electrical engineering computer science.

Sometimes they are in the same department (i.e. Berk, MIT). They are never the same degree.

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glitched
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Re: Existential Crisis

Postby glitched » Sat May 28, 2011 11:13 pm

Corwin wrote:
glitched wrote:
Corwin wrote:
glitched wrote:okay seriously here is the best advice:

If your school will allow it for sure and you are willing to do a bachelors in engineering, and if your school is UPenn, then you should definitely, and i mean definitely take Electrical Engineering/Computer Science (most schools have this combined as a single major now i believe) or just computer science. if you're going to do engineering, fuck bioengineering, fuck whatever other engineering, computer science is where it's at.


oh wait... you dont care about money. I don't get that. but whatever. enjoy full ride at T14. don't do engineering.

What are you talking about? Electrical Engineering and Computer Science are completely different and they aren't a combined major at "most" schools.


are you serious? i know at least 5 schools have some combined program of electrical engineering computer science.

Sometimes they are in the same department (i.e. Berk, MIT). They are never the same degree.

you are right. my apologies.

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robotclubmember
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Re: Existential Crisis

Postby robotclubmember » Sun May 29, 2011 8:29 am

glitched wrote:okay seriously here is the best advice:

If your school will allow it for sure and you are willing to do a bachelors in engineering, and if your school is UPenn, then you should definitely, and i mean definitely take Electrical Engineering/Computer Science (most schools have this combined as a single major now i believe) or just computer science. if you're going to do engineering, fuck bioengineering, fuck whatever other engineering, computer science is where it's at.


oh wait... you dont care about money. I don't get that. but whatever. enjoy full ride at T14. don't do engineering.


yeah, to add to that, if you really, and i mean REALLY want to help society, get a good degree in computer science, then a JD, then help invent or code the legal version of watson. it will be novel, innovative, and put some of the nastiest most useless professionals on the planet out of work. sad, lol, but true. it will also make legal aid far more affordable and increase access, and you'll be able to liberate thousands of useless jobs from the economy so those lawyers can go on to do something that matters.

if that's not what your original idea was, then your whole premise of wanting to genuinely "help society" lol is complete and utter bs. T14 route is something about 4,500 people do every year, so it wouldn't make you that special or mean you're going to change the world. if you really want to help society, break from the script bro

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johnnyutah
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Re: Existential Crisis

Postby johnnyutah » Sun May 29, 2011 10:10 am

confusedbutdriven wrote:Lastly, I would like to live securely. I do not need big law money. Ever. If I can help others and it comes, I won't turn it down. But it is not my primary goal. Helping others is. In the Philly/NJ/NYC area I live, to live securely means at least $50,000. The number is actually higher than 50,000, but that is not a bad place to start.

Just so that you're aware, jobs at nonprofits and public defender's offices are often extremely hard to get right out of law school and never pay $50,000.

HITeacher2
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Re: Existential Crisis

Postby HITeacher2 » Sun May 29, 2011 12:36 pm

glitched wrote:
Corwin wrote:
glitched wrote:
Corwin wrote:What are you talking about? Electrical Engineering and Computer Science are completely different and they aren't a combined major at "most" schools.


are you serious? i know at least 5 schools have some combined program of electrical engineering computer science.

Sometimes they are in the same department (i.e. Berk, MIT). They are never the same degree.

you are right. my apologies.


Ugh, so spineless... EECS is ONE degree at Berkeley. Not just one department, ONE DEGREE. Do some research before you prostrate yourself.

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Corwin
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Re: Existential Crisis

Postby Corwin » Sun May 29, 2011 2:25 pm

HITeacher2 wrote:Ugh, so spineless... EECS is ONE degree at Berkeley. Not just one department, ONE DEGREE. Do some research before you prostrate yourself.

It's more complicated than that. If you do go the CS option within EECS, you end up with a completely different set of knowledge than an EE major. Last time I checked classes hardly even overlap after Sophomore year. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the usual companies rarely hire EECS grads from Berkley who did option IV for EE jobs. I also recall that Berkley offers a BA in CS that's separate from the EECS department.

glitched isn't being "spineless" as you say, I just don't think he is familiar with undergrad programs in Engineering. Claiming that "most schools have [CS and EE] combined as a single major now" just simply isn't the case. They are distinctly different areas of study. Sure I made a small mistake when speaking of Berkley's program, but that doesn't change the thrust of my argument.

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glitched
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Re: Existential Crisis

Postby glitched » Sun May 29, 2011 3:37 pm

HITeacher2 wrote:Ugh, so spineless... EECS is ONE degree at Berkeley. Not just one department, ONE DEGREE. Do some research before you prostrate yourself.


wrong. even at berkeley, it's one department with two different programs. so it's ECE (electrical and computer engineering) or CSE (computer science and engineering). so TECHNICALLY, they are different majors with a lot of overlap. it's just everyone says EECS but in reality all EECS students have to choose a path.

I'm not spineless. I just choose to side with facts and the facts changed for me when I did the research.
Last edited by glitched on Sun May 29, 2011 3:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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ahduth
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Re: Existential Crisis

Postby ahduth » Sun May 29, 2011 3:40 pm

glitched wrote:
HITeacher2 wrote:Ugh, so spineless... EECS is ONE degree at Berkeley. Not just one department, ONE DEGREE. Do some research before you prostrate yourself.


wrong. even at berkeley, it's one department with two different programs. so it's ECE (electrical and computer engineering) or CSE (computer science and engineering). so TECHNICALLY, they are different majors with a lot of overlap. it's just everyone says EECS but in reality all EECS students have to choose a path.

I'm not spineless. I just choose to side with facts and the facts changed for me when I did the research.


All this "facts" business is making me start to feel like I'm watching Fox News - way too fair and balanced for me.

Please try to remember this is the internet, and the only reason we're here is to sling mud.

Thank you.

HITeacher2
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Re: Existential Crisis

Postby HITeacher2 » Mon May 30, 2011 12:01 am

glitched wrote:
HITeacher2 wrote:Ugh, so spineless... EECS is ONE degree at Berkeley. Not just one department, ONE DEGREE. Do some research before you prostrate yourself.


wrong. even at berkeley, it's one department with two different programs. so it's ECE (electrical and computer engineering) or CSE (computer science and engineering). so TECHNICALLY, they are different majors with a lot of overlap. it's just everyone says EECS but in reality all EECS students have to choose a path.

I'm not spineless. I just choose to side with facts and the facts changed for me when I did the research.


http://www.eecs.berkeley.edu/Programs/ee+cs.html

Berkeley > EECS Major. If you go to Berkeley, you get a Bachelor of Science in EECS. Not ECE, not EE, not CS. You can get a Bachelor of Arts in CS, true, but having GONE TO BERKELEY I know that almost no-one majors in CS, all the CS kids major in EECS.

I was more disgusted by the fact that you were apologizing despite the fact that you were right. Now you're clearly in the wrong. Are you going to apologize to me too?

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glitched
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Re: Existential Crisis

Postby glitched » Mon May 30, 2011 12:18 am

HITeacher2 wrote:
glitched wrote:
HITeacher2 wrote:Ugh, so spineless... EECS is ONE degree at Berkeley. Not just one department, ONE DEGREE. Do some research before you prostrate yourself.


wrong. even at berkeley, it's one department with two different programs. so it's ECE (electrical and computer engineering) or CSE (computer science and engineering). so TECHNICALLY, they are different majors with a lot of overlap. it's just everyone says EECS but in reality all EECS students have to choose a path.

I'm not spineless. I just choose to side with facts and the facts changed for me when I did the research.


http://www.eecs.berkeley.edu/Programs/ee+cs.html

Berkeley > EECS Major. If you go to Berkeley, you get a Bachelor of Science in EECS. Not ECE, not EE, not CS. You can get a Bachelor of Arts in CS, true, but having GONE TO BERKELEY I know that almost no-one majors in CS, all the CS kids major in EECS.

I was more disgusted by the fact that you were apologizing despite the fact that you were right. Now you're clearly in the wrong. Are you going to apologize to me too?

are you such a big man that you don't apologize when you feel you're wrong? you're such a BIG MAN. i am not so bigoted as to never admit i'm wrong. if i feel i am wrong, i will gladly admit it and apologize. and btw you are a douchebag.

btw i went to berkeley too, and i know about the major. but i am talking more about PROGRAMS and WHAT YOU LEARN more than about the degree you receive. and their PROGRAMS are either ECE or CSE within the EECS major - you CHOOSE one. and i do know some people who are CS in letters and science. and theyre NOT EECS. douchebag.

HITeacher2
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Re: Existential Crisis

Postby HITeacher2 » Mon May 30, 2011 1:50 am

Wow... you have some serious temper issues. Do you even know what bigoted means? I'm pretty sure calling someone a douchebag because you don't like what they have to say qualifies as bigoted.

I'm sorry for pushing your buttons, but you're still wrong about EECS and now you're also a hypocrite. Congratulations.

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glitched
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Re: Existential Crisis

Postby glitched » Mon May 30, 2011 4:50 am

HITeacher2 wrote:Wow... you have some serious temper issues. Do you even know what bigoted means? I'm pretty sure calling someone a douchebag because you don't like what they have to say qualifies as bigoted.

I'm sorry for pushing your buttons, but you're still wrong about EECS and now you're also a hypocrite. Congratulations.

:)

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robotclubmember
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Re: Existential Crisis

Postby robotclubmember » Mon May 30, 2011 2:14 pm

HITeacher2 wrote:Wow... you have some serious temper issues. Do you even know what bigoted means? I'm pretty sure calling someone a douchebag because you don't like what they have to say qualifies as bigoted.

I'm sorry for pushing your buttons, but you're still wrong about EECS and now you're also a hypocrite. Congratulations.


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