A Hypocritical Commencement Speech at Emory

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Tanicius
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Re: A Hypocritical Commencement Speech at Emory

Postby Tanicius » Fri May 27, 2011 3:29 am

xchel2828 wrote:
Tanicius wrote:The criticisms of her speech seem to make no distinction between the professor and the school. What the school did was bad. The professor is just giving legitimate advice.

No one is disputing that the "advice" given by the professor is not legitimate when taken without any context. The problem is that she gave this advice to new graduates, not prospective students, that have just spend 150K, if not more, in tuition and fees. But what it really messed up is that the professor's salary dependent directly on convincing these stupid students that their investment was worth it. It turns out it was not, and now, after the fact, the professor basically tells the new graduates "sorry, life is hard."

I also dispute the notion that the professor is giving these new graduates advice because advice implies BEFORE the fact. These dudes have already paid and the damage has been done. Instead of advice, I would call it a criticism. The professor is criticizing the "sense of entitlement" of these new graduates.



I don't think you fully understand what she's trying to say. Her point was that the damage has not all been done - their future still hinges in their attitude and the effort they put in. It might be criticism, but it's constructive, and it's something that needs to be said rather than stupid sappy talk about how they're about to embark on the greatest years of their lives. Also, the professor's speech applies to tons of law students - not just the unusually unlucky batch at Emory.

blsingindisguise
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Re: A Hypocritical Commencement Speech at Emory

Postby blsingindisguise » Fri May 27, 2011 8:28 am

Tanicius wrote:
I don't think you fully understand what she's trying to say. Her point was that the damage has not all been done - their future still hinges in their attitude and the effort they put in. It might be criticism, but it's constructive, and it's something that needs to be said rather than stupid sappy talk about how they're about to embark on the greatest years of their lives. Also, the professor's speech applies to tons of law students - not just the unusually unlucky batch at Emory.


I agree that this is what she was trying to say, and she's at least half right. Once you're in a bad situation, you don't do yourself any good by feeling sorry for yourself and angry at those around you for things not totally in their control. Yes, entitlement does get in the way of success.

However I still think this is an insensitive and hypocritical tack to take at a commencement, especially the way she delivered it. Her career path shows no evidence of real struggle, nor does it show any evidence of being a "giver" like she is asking students (who can't find public interest jobs) to be. I know very good students right now who, for example, have wanted nothing more than to be a public defender since they got to school and can't find jobs in public defense. How should such a person be more of a "giver" -- set up a cardboard legal advice stand on the sidewalk? The messenger matters, and this messenger is a tenured professor with nothing to worry about. She didn't have massive debt, she didn't have to be top of her class at U.Va to succeed, and now she's set for life. She doesn't have to reflect on her own entitlement, because she got what she felt she was entitled to.

Plus, it's still not clear how the situation is going to shake out at this point. Things could get even worse for the legal market. Telling people who lived through the depression to get over their "sense of entitlement" at the time wouldn't have helped anyone very much. Not saying we have the depression yet, just that things are still pretty uncertain.

wojo96
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Re: A Hypocritical Commencement Speech at Emory

Postby wojo96 » Fri May 27, 2011 1:54 pm

Past 12 months have been a PR nightmare for ELS...wonder if application quantity/quality will suffer?

Sandro
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Re: A Hypocritical Commencement Speech at Emory

Postby Sandro » Fri May 27, 2011 2:16 pm

UGA's in state tuition is ~15k and almost everyone gets it 2L and 3L, and a lot for 1L as well 8)

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FantasticMrFox
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Re: A Hypocritical Commencement Speech at Emory

Postby FantasticMrFox » Fri May 27, 2011 9:35 pm

she keeps repeating the same words and it drives me nuts
(at least in the beginning...the repetition drowns out the rest of her words)

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Rock-N-Roll
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Re: A Hypocritical Commencement Speech at Emory

Postby Rock-N-Roll » Fri May 27, 2011 10:03 pm

Thank you OP for posting this. I am troubled by the speech.

In all fairness, I don't believe we know enough to deem professor Stadler to be hypocritical. She may have chosen acedemia because she is passionate about teaching and may genuinely care about her students.

However, if you believe that some law schools are in the wrong for maintaining steep tuition rates and promoting optimistic employment and salary data in the face of the severe impact of the recent economic downturn on new law school graduates, then as a representative of a law school professor Stadler's speech comes off as condescending and cruel.

How can a law school promote a rosey future to their applicants and then call them entitled when three years and $200,000 later the future that these same applicants expected doesn't exist?

In my humble opinion, what law schools should come to terms with is that if the market devalues attorneys it lowers the value of a legal education. Instead of telling graduates to keep a stiff upper lip, law professors and schools would be better served in the long run by acting to help create an environment where graduates can go on to do well in the market by lobbying the ABA to close some schools and decreasing their own class sizes thus increasing demand for graduates.

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DietCoke
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Re: A Hypocritical Commencement Speech at Emory

Postby DietCoke » Sun May 29, 2011 9:10 pm

I don't see any contradictions or hypocracy from the dean. Students went into law thinking they will make big bucks. They paid a lot of money for that risk and they failed. Now someone is supposed to intervene in their misfortune and make right? I don't feel any sympathy for Emory '11.

flcath
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Re: A Hypocritical Commencement Speech at Emory

Postby flcath » Sun May 29, 2011 9:16 pm

DietCoke wrote:I don't see any contradictions or hypocracy from the dean. Students went into law thinking they will make big bucks. They paid a lot of money for that risk and they failed. Now someone is supposed to intervene in their misfortune and make right? I don't feel any sympathy for Emory '11.

*High five*

For years I've been saying the same thing about the dumb fucks who invested w/ Madoff, knowing that there was a possibility that it was a scam.

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DietCoke
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Re: A Hypocritical Commencement Speech at Emory

Postby DietCoke » Sun May 29, 2011 9:44 pm

flcath wrote:
emorystud2010 wrote:Seriously? Can we ever get some positive publicity?

Emory and UVA have both been getting mega-screwed on ATL lately.

Though there's always a pretext, I highly suspect Elie just doesn't like the South.


I thought ATL was an online journal entry from an overprivileged blogger?

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DietCoke
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Re: A Hypocritical Commencement Speech at Emory

Postby DietCoke » Sun May 29, 2011 9:47 pm

xchel2828 wrote:
Tanicius wrote:The criticisms of her speech seem to make no distinction between the professor and the school. What the school did was bad. The professor is just giving legitimate advice.

No one is disputing that the "advice" given by the professor is not legitimate when taken without any context. The problem is that she gave this advice to new graduates, not prospective students, that have just spend 150K, if not more, in tuition and fees. But what it really messed up is that the professor's salary dependent directly on convincing these stupid students that their investment was worth it. It turns out it was not, and now, after the fact, the professor basically tells the new graduates "sorry, life is hard."

I also dispute the notion that the professor is giving these new graduates advice because advice implies BEFORE the fact. These dudes have already paid and the damage has been done. Instead of advice, I would call it a criticism. The professor is criticizing the "sense of entitlement" of these new graduates.[/quote]

Did the school promise them something? Were the students duped/coerced into paying?

^After answering above, yes these graduates have a sense of entitlement.

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Ikki
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Re: A Hypocritical Commencement Speech at Emory

Postby Ikki » Mon May 30, 2011 5:07 pm

DietCoke wrote:
flcath wrote:
emorystud2010 wrote:Seriously? Can we ever get some positive publicity?

Emory and UVA have both been getting mega-screwed on ATL lately.

Though there's always a pretext, I highly suspect Elie just doesn't like the South.


I thought ATL was an online journal entry from an overprivileged blogger?


That's not inconsistent with emorystud.

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Mickey Quicknumbers
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Re: A Hypocritical Commencement Speech at Emory

Postby Mickey Quicknumbers » Mon May 30, 2011 6:18 pm

paulinaporizkova wrote:what up alty mcalterson

try again missy. I could care less.




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