Better undergrad for LS?

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Bronx Bum
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Re: Better undergrad for LS?

Postby Bronx Bum » Sun May 15, 2011 5:17 pm

BeaverHunter wrote:
stylishlaw wrote:Go to the school with the easiest major that will let you get a 4.0 with the least amount of work.


Maybe it will help you get in to a marginally better law school, but this is some seriously shitty advice that will hurt anyone that takes it going through life.


And if you think that going through life is all about "who works the hardest," then you have a rude awakening. Life if about who can take the most shortcuts without letting it affect their work product, who can politic and "appear" to be doing the best work.

dkt4
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Re: Better undergrad for LS?

Postby dkt4 » Sun May 15, 2011 7:04 pm

OP, go find advice somewhere else for this. you're getting a lot of garbage.

BeaverHunter
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Re: Better undergrad for LS?

Postby BeaverHunter » Sun May 15, 2011 9:10 pm

Bronx Bum wrote:
BeaverHunter wrote:
stylishlaw wrote:Go to the school with the easiest major that will let you get a 4.0 with the least amount of work.


Maybe it will help you get in to a marginally better law school, but this is some seriously shitty advice that will hurt anyone that takes it going through life.


And if you think that going through life is all about "who works the hardest," then you have a rude awakening. Life if about who can take the most shortcuts without letting it affect their work product, who can politic and "appear" to be doing the best work.


Sure thing Junior.

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niederbomb
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Re: Better undergrad for LS?

Postby niederbomb » Sun May 15, 2011 10:22 pm

BeaverHunter wrote:
Bronx Bum wrote:
BeaverHunter wrote:
stylishlaw wrote:Go to the school with the easiest major that will let you get a 4.0 with the least amount of work.


Maybe it will help you get in to a marginally better law school, but this is some seriously shitty advice that will hurt anyone that takes it going through life.


And if you think that going through life is all about "who works the hardest," then you have a rude awakening. Life if about who can take the most shortcuts without letting it affect their work product, who can politic and "appear" to be doing the best work.



+1

UG prestige (or lack thereof) will get you dinged at some top foreign law schools but not in the U.S. - where the LSAT reigns supreme. Unless you're going to major in something like engineering, accounting, etc. that will get you a job, I'd say stay put. If you're majoring in something cool that you plan to use later on in your career, I'd say go to Georgetown or Cornell, whichever is cheaper.

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ahduth
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Re: Better undergrad for LS?

Postby ahduth » Sun May 15, 2011 10:38 pm

I vote Cornell ILR. Simply because that sounds wicked interesting. It's a unique thing to talk about in interviews. And it sounds like the OP can do it for cheap.

You people who are determined that the OP should go to a crappy school for two years, so he can keep his GPA should consider placing a higher value on each day of your life. Dedicating two years of your college life to getting a marginally higher GPA so you can get into a marginally better law school is not what you want to be looking back on when you're 60.

stylishlaw
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Re: Better undergrad for LS?

Postby stylishlaw » Sun May 15, 2011 10:42 pm

BeaverHunter wrote:
Bronx Bum wrote:
BeaverHunter wrote:
stylishlaw wrote:Go to the school with the easiest major that will let you get a 4.0 with the least amount of work.


Maybe it will help you get in to a marginally better law school, but this is some seriously shitty advice that will hurt anyone that takes it going through life.


And if you think that going through life is all about "who works the hardest," then you have a rude awakening. Life if about who can take the most shortcuts without letting it affect their work product, who can politic and "appear" to be doing the best work.


Sure thing Junior.



LOL, I went to a prestigious undergrad and majored in engineering. Had I known I wanted to go to law school at the time, I would have taken the full ride to my state school and taken the easiest major I could get my hands on. Am I bitter? Sure. Who wouldn't be after slaving away at the breadboard for four years with no female companionship? But the OP asked how one should choose undergrad for going to LS, so I fail to understand how I gave "shitty" advice when you acknowledge yourself that it would help getting into a better law school. If you are planning on going to professional school then undergrad lay prestige is completely overrated. Why do 10x more work to get to the same place? That's not being smart that's just being dumb.

tcliff
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Re: Better undergrad for LS?

Postby tcliff » Mon May 16, 2011 9:44 am

ahduth wrote:I vote Cornell ILR. Simply because that sounds wicked interesting. It's a unique thing to talk about in interviews. And it sounds like the OP can do it for cheap.

You people who are determined that the OP should go to a crappy school for two years, so he can keep his GPA should consider placing a higher value on each day of your life. Dedicating two years of your college life to getting a marginally higher GPA so you can get into a marginally better law school is not what you want to be looking back on when you're 60.


If he was spending time on an engineering degree it could be different. But that's not the choice he is making. It's very possible for him to go to a better school, get a potentially much more fulfilling experience, and still maintain a very high GPA.

There are also lots of other benefits the better schools might be able to provide you. For me, going to a better school was more affordable. There were also other benefits, though. The better school had a lot more money to give out to students for various reasons, funding me so I could take unpaid internships during the summer that I wouldn't have been able to afford otherwise, also allowed me a lot of great opportunities to travel, and made it a lot easier to foster some really great relationships with professors.

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northwood
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Re: Better undergrad for LS?

Postby northwood » Mon May 16, 2011 10:08 am

dkt4 wrote:OP, go find advice somewhere else for this. you're getting a lot of garbage.

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niederbomb
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Re: Better undergrad for LS?

Postby niederbomb » Mon May 16, 2011 10:09 am

tcliff wrote:
ahduth wrote:I vote Cornell ILR. Simply because that sounds wicked interesting. It's a unique thing to talk about in interviews. And it sounds like the OP can do it for cheap.

You people who are determined that the OP should go to a crappy school for two years, so he can keep his GPA should consider placing a higher value on each day of your life. Dedicating two years of your college life to getting a marginally higher GPA so you can get into a marginally better law school is not what you want to be looking back on when you're 60.


If he was spending time on an engineering degree it could be different. But that's not the choice he is making. It's very possible for him to go to a better school, get a potentially much more fulfilling experience, and still maintain a very high GPA.

There are also lots of other benefits the better schools might be able to provide you. For me, going to a better school was more affordable. There were also other benefits, though. The better school had a lot more money to give out to students for various reasons, funding me so I could take unpaid internships during the summer that I wouldn't have been able to afford otherwise, also allowed me a lot of great opportunities to travel, and made it a lot easier to foster some really great relationships with professors.


Good point. Most of my professors were dumb as rocks. Also, I was the first ever Truman Scholarship Finalist and first person to ever take a DC internship - also the highest ever scorer on the LSAT. And I am an objectively lackluster individual and, back then, was as shy as a Japanese girl living in the Emperor's inner courts.

You might get a 4.0 at Greendale Community College, but prestigious colleges have some intangible things to offer that might be worth the cost.

m3taphysician
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Re: Better undergrad for LS?

Postby m3taphysician » Mon May 16, 2011 1:25 pm

People talk about how your undergrad really does not matter, but I refuse to believe it.

There is just no way, in my mind, that an admissions officer will look at one guy who went to Frostburg State and got a 3.9 in Sociology and Women's Studies, and a guy who went to Georgetown and got a 3.77 in Government and Japanese, and come away favoring the kid from Frostburg on the basis of .13 GPA basis points.

It's bullshit.

bdubs
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Re: Better undergrad for LS?

Postby bdubs » Mon May 16, 2011 1:40 pm

Go to Cornell. If you change your mind it offers better opportunities and at a relatively lower cost than Georgetown. Internships are valuable to an extent, but you can get substantive internships during the summer that will compensate for the fact that you aren't in DC.

stylishlaw
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Re: Better undergrad for LS?

Postby stylishlaw » Mon May 16, 2011 1:47 pm

m3taphysician wrote:People talk about how your undergrad really does not matter, but I refuse to believe it.

There is just no way, in my mind, that an admissions officer will look at one guy who went to Frostburg State and got a 3.9 in Sociology and Women's Studies, and a guy who went to Georgetown and got a 3.77 in Government and Japanese, and come away favoring the kid from Frostburg on the basis of .13 GPA basis points.

It's bullshit.


Yeap, I'm angry too but that's exactly how it works.

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northwood
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Re: Better undergrad for LS?

Postby northwood » Mon May 16, 2011 2:13 pm

stylishlaw wrote:
m3taphysician wrote:People talk about how your undergrad really does not matter, but I refuse to believe it.

There is just no way, in my mind, that an admissions officer will look at one guy who went to Frostburg State and got a 3.9 in Sociology and Women's Studies, and a guy who went to Georgetown and got a 3.77 in Government and Japanese, and come away favoring the kid from Frostburg on the basis of .13 GPA basis points.

It's bullshit.


Yeap, I'm angry too but that's exactly how it works.



and it sucks that those who allready have master degrees dont get some sort of extra bump, but that is how it goes. Nothing you can do for the most part, except just go with what you got.
Maybe you could argue for a gpa weight by major or something, but a lot of people go to ug in their state systems, knowing that they will go on after undergrad- so its a way to save money so you cant fault someone for choosing a lesser known school that makes more sense financially over a big named school- especially if they will be taking loans out for it. In reality if you are going to be taking out loans for ug and it costs more than 100k, plus the 100k in loans for law school ( assuming of course you dont get a full ride) you are looking at 200k+ in loans, not taking into consideration interest and other fees. so on that hand i see why you cant put extra weight into where you went for undergrad.

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johnnyutah
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Re: Better undergrad for LS?

Postby johnnyutah » Mon May 16, 2011 11:51 pm

m3taphysician wrote:There is just no way, in my mind, that an admissions officer will look at one guy who went to Frostburg State and got a 3.9 in Sociology and Women's Studies, and a guy who went to Georgetown and got a 3.77 in Government and Japanese, and come away favoring the kid from Frostburg on the basis of .13 GPA basis points.

Wait, your example of a hard major is "Government"?

stylishlaw
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Re: Better undergrad for LS?

Postby stylishlaw » Tue May 17, 2011 12:00 am

northwood wrote:
stylishlaw wrote:
m3taphysician wrote:People talk about how your undergrad really does not matter, but I refuse to believe it.

There is just no way, in my mind, that an admissions officer will look at one guy who went to Frostburg State and got a 3.9 in Sociology and Women's Studies, and a guy who went to Georgetown and got a 3.77 in Government and Japanese, and come away favoring the kid from Frostburg on the basis of .13 GPA basis points.

It's bullshit.


Yeap, I'm angry too but that's exactly how it works.



and it sucks that those who allready have master degrees dont get some sort of extra bump, but that is how it goes. Nothing you can do for the most part, except just go with what you got.
Maybe you could argue for a gpa weight by major or something, but a lot of people go to ug in their state systems, knowing that they will go on after undergrad- so its a way to save money so you cant fault someone for choosing a lesser known school that makes more sense financially over a big named school- especially if they will be taking loans out for it. In reality if you are going to be taking out loans for ug and it costs more than 100k, plus the 100k in loans for law school ( assuming of course you dont get a full ride) you are looking at 200k+ in loans, not taking into consideration interest and other fees. so on that hand i see why you cant put extra weight into where you went for undergrad.


Yah, also not to mention that if you were to compare majors and undergrad institutions, how would you do it? How would you assign different weights to majors at different schools? How could you even begin to possibly compare them on an objective basis? (Short answer: you can't, the closest thing we have is the LSAT and even that isn't very good)

If two candidates have the EXACT same GPAs and LSATs, then they will probably give the spot to the person with the tougher major/undergrad. But outside of that, they will go with the higher numbers every time (even if we're talking about a miniscule difference)

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glewz
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Re: Better undergrad for LS?

Postby glewz » Tue May 17, 2011 12:10 am

Visit both & decide. Both are great schools...consider cost + quality of life.

I've visited Cornell & Ithaca is really different from what I'm used to.

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niederbomb
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Re: Better undergrad for LS?

Postby niederbomb » Tue May 17, 2011 9:01 am

johnnyutah wrote:
m3taphysician wrote:There is just no way, in my mind, that an admissions officer will look at one guy who went to Frostburg State and got a 3.9 in Sociology and Women's Studies, and a guy who went to Georgetown and got a 3.77 in Government and Japanese, and come away favoring the kid from Frostburg on the basis of .13 GPA basis points.

Wait, your example of a hard major is "Government"?


As someone who studied simplified Mandarin (supposedly easier than Japanese), I'd pick a 3.77 Japanese major over an Econ major or a Bio major when it comes to rigor. Those of you who haven't done it have no idea what a pain in the butt learning a character-based language is. Not only do you have to learn the 2000 + common characters, each one has dozens of individual meanings whose connections make no sense to a Westerner. Clearly, Japanese/Chinese >>>>> Women's studies.

However, Chemistry, Physics, and Mathematics are actually and truthfully the real hard majors. So I'm still confused as to what the above poster meant.

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johnnyutah
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Re: Better undergrad for LS?

Postby johnnyutah » Tue May 17, 2011 9:10 am

niederbomb wrote:
johnnyutah wrote:
m3taphysician wrote:There is just no way, in my mind, that an admissions officer will look at one guy who went to Frostburg State and got a 3.9 in Sociology and Women's Studies, and a guy who went to Georgetown and got a 3.77 in Government and Japanese, and come away favoring the kid from Frostburg on the basis of .13 GPA basis points.

Wait, your example of a hard major is "Government"?


As someone who studied simplified Mandarin (supposedly easier than Japanese), I'd pick a 3.77 Japanese major over an Econ major or a Bio major when it comes to rigor. Those of you who haven't done it have no idea what a pain in the butt learning a character-based language is. Not only do you have to learn the 2000 + common characters, each one has dozens of individual meanings whose connections make no sense to a Westerner. Clearly, Japanese/Chinese >>>>> Women's studies.

However, Chemistry, Physics, and Mathematics are actually and truthfully the real hard majors. So I'm still confused as to what the above poster meant.

I did Mandarin too, and I'd totally take it over any science major if all I wanted was a 4.0. I like languages, though.

shouldgetmba
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Re: Better undergrad for LS?

Postby shouldgetmba » Wed May 25, 2011 3:38 pm

Georgetown all day. Also, forget law school.

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Longhorn88
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Re: Better undergrad for LS?

Postby Longhorn88 » Wed May 25, 2011 4:20 pm

You go to the school with the better football team, obvi.

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BrightLine
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Re: Better undergrad for LS?

Postby BrightLine » Wed May 25, 2011 5:48 pm

Has a study ever been of the top 13 or 6 that controls for LSAT score and just looks at undergrad?

bdubs
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Re: Better undergrad for LS?

Postby bdubs » Wed May 25, 2011 6:35 pm

BrightLine wrote:Has a study ever been of the top 13 or 6 that controls for LSAT score and just looks at undergrad?


That level of detail in the data probably aren't available (to the public), and even if they were most researchers don't focus on "top" schools because they want to avoid sounding elitist.




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