Better undergrad for LS?

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KingJustinian
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Better undergrad for LS?

Postby KingJustinian » Sat May 14, 2011 3:47 pm

Apologies if this isn't the right forum for this question.

I'm currently a sophomore at a public university in NYC. I've done well here, and I've been accepted as a junior transfer to Cornell University's School of Industrial and Labor Relations and Georgetown University's College of Arts and Sciences.

I'm planning to attend law school, ideally Columbia. My main interest is international law. I see myself working for the ILO someday.

At Cornell ILR, everyone majors in Industrial and Labor Relations, but there are concentrations within the major. I'd concentrate in International and Comparative Labor. Looking through the syllabus there are many classes that really interest me. You can minor across colleges, so I'd also minor in regular International Relations.

At Georgetown, I'd be a Government major. Georgetown's big plus for me is its location. Literally any IR-related internship you could think of, right there in DC. It's also obviously got a stellar reputation in the field of IR, second only to Harvard and Columbia I'd say.

Which do you all think would be the better choice (for now, assuming I'd do well at either) to maximize my chances at Columbia Law?

stylishlaw
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Re: Better undergrad for LS?

Postby stylishlaw » Sat May 14, 2011 3:49 pm

Go to the school with the easiest major that will let you get a 4.0 with the least amount of work.

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Knock
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Re: Better undergrad for LS?

Postby Knock » Sat May 14, 2011 3:50 pm

KingJustinian wrote:Apologies if this isn't the right forum for this question.

I'm currently a sophomore at a public university in NYC. I've done well here, and I've been accepted as a junior transfer to Cornell University's School of Industrial and Labor Relations and Georgetown University's College of Arts and Sciences.

I'm planning to attend law school, ideally Columbia. My main interest is international law. I see myself working for the ILO someday.

At Cornell ILR, everyone majors in Industrial and Labor Relations, but there are concentrations within the major. I'd concentrate in International and Comparative Labor. Looking through the syllabus there are many classes that really interest me. You can minor across colleges, so I'd also minor in regular International Relations.

At Georgetown, I'd be a Government major. Georgetown's big plus for me is its location. Literally any IR-related internship you could think of, right there in DC. It's also obviously got a stellar reputation in the field of IR, second only to Harvard and Columbia I'd say.

Which do you all think would be the better choice (for now, assuming I'd do well at either) to maximize my chances at Columbia Law?


How much does each option cost? I'd go to the cheapest option, since your undergrad school will make only a very slight difference in your application, if at all.

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dpk711
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Re: Better undergrad for LS?

Postby dpk711 » Sat May 14, 2011 3:52 pm

stylishlaw wrote:Go to the school with the easiest major that will let you get a 4.0 with the least amount of work.

TITCR. Also, international law is largely a myth. Use the "search function" to see why.

KingJustinian
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Re: Better undergrad for LS?

Postby KingJustinian » Sat May 14, 2011 3:53 pm

Cornell would be cheaper. The ILR school is partially subsidized by the state so as a NYS resident I'd get reduced tuition.

alexanderhamilton
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Re: Better undergrad for LS?

Postby alexanderhamilton » Sat May 14, 2011 10:58 pm

You're in one of the SUNY schools, which are pretty cheap if you're doing that well then I wouldn't leave.

Bumi
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Re: Better undergrad for LS?

Postby Bumi » Sat May 14, 2011 11:06 pm

Why does almost every 0L get off on international law? Was there some highly rated TV drama about international law that I missed?

OP, unless you already have a 178 and a trust fund and can afford to take risks, stay where you are and graduate with a 4.0 and as little debt as possible. If you want to go to law school, you owe it to yourself not to take risks with your UGPA.

redwings15
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Re: Better undergrad for LS?

Postby redwings15 » Sat May 14, 2011 11:16 pm

Is this what society is coming to? Stay at a junior college to avoid risking your stellar GPA? Give up being challenged academically at Cornell or Georgetown in favor of what looks to be a more qualified law school applicant?

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dpk711
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Re: Better undergrad for LS?

Postby dpk711 » Sat May 14, 2011 11:19 pm

redwings15 wrote:Is this what society is coming to? Stay at a junior college to avoid risking your stellar GPA? Give up being challenged academically at Cornell or Georgetown in favor of what looks to be a more qualified law school applicant?

If you want to maximize your chances at an elite law school, yes.

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yngblkgifted
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Re: Better undergrad for LS?

Postby yngblkgifted » Sun May 15, 2011 1:41 am

redwings15 wrote:Is this what society is coming to? Stay at a junior college to avoid risking your stellar GPA? Give up being challenged academically at Cornell or Georgetown in favor of what looks to be a more qualified law school applicant?

u mad bro?

alexanderhamilton
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Re: Better undergrad for LS?

Postby alexanderhamilton » Sun May 15, 2011 1:49 am

Bumi wrote:Why does almost every 0L get off on international law? Was there some highly rated TV drama about international law that I missed?


It's the parents, they don't really understand what international law is. The parents seem to think that international law is some amazing degree that will let us work anywhere in the world, especially in all sorts of exotic countries and make us more "marketable".

BeaverHunter
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Re: Better undergrad for LS?

Postby BeaverHunter » Sun May 15, 2011 1:54 pm

stylishlaw wrote:Go to the school with the easiest major that will let you get a 4.0 with the least amount of work.


Maybe it will help you get in to a marginally better law school, but this is some seriously shitty advice that will hurt anyone that takes it going through life.

dissonance1848
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Re: Better undergrad for LS?

Postby dissonance1848 » Sun May 15, 2011 1:59 pm

It won't just help you get into a marginally better law school; 4.0 162s can ED to UVA. A 3.7 162 is not getting into SMU.

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Cade McNown
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Re: Better undergrad for LS?

Postby Cade McNown » Sun May 15, 2011 2:24 pm

OP, neither Cornell nor Georgetown will have a competitive advantage over the other when it comes to placing you in Columbia law (that's what the LSAT is for). But while it might be easier to maintain a high GPA at your current SUNY, staying there for this reason alone is NOT the credited response.

IMO, you should transfer to Cornell or Georgetown b/c both schools will open up more opportunities for you generally. In 2+ years when you graduate you may want to take a couple years to work before law school, and a Cornell or Georgetown degree from the programs you've mentioned help you there. There's always a chance you won't want to do law school at all. Previous posters' comments about minimizing debt are on point, so if the difference in cost between cornell/gtown and your current school would burden you significantly, you may be better off staying put. Otherwise, I say transfer to the program that interests you the most (forced to choose, I'd go Georgetown).

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Magnolia
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Re: Better undergrad for LS?

Postby Magnolia » Sun May 15, 2011 2:39 pm

I would go to Cornell. You'll still be paying in-state tuition, but you'll have the advantage of the Ivy prestige if you put off or change your mind about law school.

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koalatriste
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Re: Better undergrad for LS?

Postby koalatriste » Sun May 15, 2011 2:42 pm

Georgetown CAS /= Georgetown SFS.

HTH.

TLSNYC
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Re: Better undergrad for LS?

Postby TLSNYC » Sun May 15, 2011 2:43 pm

I would transfer up, not so much because it would help in the LS admissions process (it won't), but to open up other doors and opportunities. UG @ Gtown is a great way to try and get a gig after UG for a couple of years.

tcliff
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Re: Better undergrad for LS?

Postby tcliff » Sun May 15, 2011 2:59 pm

It's worth it to see what financial aid the transfer schools will give you. People are talking about money and in-state tuition, but sometimes private schools can be cheaper if they have a great financial aid program. For UG, I went to a highly ranked liberal arts school that was actually considerably cheaper than if I were to go to the University of Illinois (I'm from Chicago). The financial aid at my UG was almost entirely in grants that I didn't have to pay back, whereas U of I was almost entirely in loans. In my situation, the better school was the cheaper option. I'm slightly under $20k in debt after four years. However, my parents really make very little money, so a lot of people's financial math would be seriously different from mine. They might have had more financial support from their parents, or had to take out more loans if their parents made more money but unwilling to give their higher expected contribution.

If I had to pay $50k a year for UG at Cornell or Georgetown, I'd be very hesitant. However, if financial aid reduced the cost, I would probably go for the better educational experience at the risk of a slightly lower GPA. Then again, I'm fairly confident I'll do well enough on the LSAT to get into a good law school regardless of my sub-4.0 GPA.

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TaipeiMort
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Re: Better undergrad for LS?

Postby TaipeiMort » Sun May 15, 2011 3:22 pm

Stay at/ go to whatever school is 1) the cheapest and 2) the easiest. An elite undergrad is only useful if you plan to go directly into the workforce with a type of professional degree (business management, engineering, accounting, architecture, etc.).

If not, go to the school which gives you the easiest path to law school. "Educational quality," is largely unimportant until you actually get to your real professional major. This is especially true in your case, unless you plan to use your UG degree in the legal market (only really valuable if foreign languages: (Arabic, Chinese, (maybe) Japanese, Russian, Portuguese) OR patent bar applicable science, and engineering).

You can also major in philosophy, poli sci, or econ if you want to be an effective gunner in law school classes.

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MrKappus
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Re: Better undergrad for LS?

Postby MrKappus » Sun May 15, 2011 3:33 pm

This whole thread is full of failure.

09042014
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Re: Better undergrad for LS?

Postby 09042014 » Sun May 15, 2011 3:34 pm

The unspoken assumption here is that Cornell or Georgetown will be harder to get A's in. That's not necessarily true. Schools like Cornell and Georgetown give out tons of A's in classes.

The Average GPA at Cornell is .6 higher than Suny Oswego. Gtown is almost .7 more.

Unless you are going into a field like math, science, engineering or something else where there are curves and teachers give out C's, there should be no problem keeping your GPA up.

Just do research, and don't take a class were the prof. doesn't give A's.

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cinephile
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Re: Better undergrad for LS?

Postby cinephile » Sun May 15, 2011 3:38 pm

TLSNYC wrote:I would transfer up, not so much because it would help in the LS admissions process (it won't), but to open up other doors and opportunities.

aliarrow
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Re: Better undergrad for LS?

Postby aliarrow » Sun May 15, 2011 3:44 pm

I'd go to Cornell.

Cheaper, plus it seems like a better overall school should you decide to go into something like Academia later on.

It won't really matter too much for law school admissions (at least not enough to justify the cost), but your undergrad will play a role later on if you try for more prestigious employment.

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NYCbound35
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Re: Better undergrad for LS?

Postby NYCbound35 » Sun May 15, 2011 4:00 pm

Go to Cornell, in-state makes it relatively cheap, even w/o financial aid. And in my experience, they are very good if you demonstrate any need. Can't speak for Georgetown, but there is massive grade inflation at Cornell ILR school. Google Cornell Median Grade Report and check out the ILR classes...you'd be hard pressed to find any class that averages to less than a B+, especially for the upper level classes. You can even use this chart to find classes with A or even A+ medians (yes there are occasionally a few, most in ILR or ILR elective classes). If you can manage to be just an average student, 3.7-3.8 is very attainable. In addition, the ILRs that I know with relatively good grades are having a (relatively) OK time finding app. 50k entry level HR type jobs if you decide law school is not your thing 2 years from now/want to get some work experience.

In addition, ILR has the most external transfers of any school at Cornell, so their will already be a community for you up here.

Too bad for me I picked a hard (and relatively useless major w/o grad/med school) and only learned about the median grade reports a year ago.

Any questions, feel free to PM me.

Bumi
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Re: Better undergrad for LS?

Postby Bumi » Sun May 15, 2011 5:09 pm

BeaverHunter wrote:Maybe it will help you get in to a marginally better law school, but this is some seriously shitty advice that will hurt anyone that takes it going through life.


OP didn't ask us for a life philosophy or a career enjoyment maximization strategy. OP asked how to maximize the chances at getting into Columbia Law School. To accomplish that goal, he should make sure his GPA is as high as possible. Desert Fox makes a good point that this might be more possible at a place like Georgetown or Cornell for this guy, but if he wants to get into a great law school, he needs to keep his GPA as high as he can regardless of where he is.

Every week someone posts on here about how they are convinced they can't get into HYSCCN because they go to some low-ranked state university, even though they have the numbers. If OP is one of those people, it's very important that they hear that their inferiority complex isn't justified.




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