How important is undergrad prestige?

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Balthy
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Re: How important is undergrad prestige?

Postby Balthy » Mon May 02, 2011 3:15 am

Just curious: Do you guys think the indifference towards undergrad prestige is a result of the USNWR ranking? (I'm assuming it's not a factor in the rankings.) I am curious to see data on undergrad representation before and after 1987.

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dpk711
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Re: How important is undergrad prestige?

Postby dpk711 » Mon May 02, 2011 3:19 am

superdingle2000 wrote:Just curious: Do you guys think the indifference towards undergrad prestige is a result of the USNWR ranking? (I'm assuming it's not a factor in the rankings.) I am curious to see data on undergrad representation before and after 1987.

Wrong site, go to collegeconfidential.com.

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Balthy
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Re: How important is undergrad prestige?

Postby Balthy » Mon May 02, 2011 3:27 am

dpk711 wrote:
superdingle2000 wrote:Just curious: Do you guys think the indifference towards undergrad prestige is a result of the USNWR ranking? (I'm assuming it's not a factor in the rankings.) I am curious to see data on undergrad representation before and after 1987.

Wrong site, go to collegeconfidential.com.



Oh my, I must be quite the noob. Lets instead just discuss the same perennial pre-law questions over and over and over again.

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acrossthelake
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Re: How important is undergrad prestige?

Postby acrossthelake » Mon May 02, 2011 12:38 pm

For the most part, no. If you're borderline and your GPA is the issue, then it could help a little, but don't count on it. If you look at the grids for H undergrad, their GPA floor is a little bit lower than that of the normal candidate for getting into HLS.

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soj
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Re: How important is undergrad prestige?

Postby soj » Mon May 02, 2011 12:54 pm

If you're from a prestigious UG, it won't help you. If you're not from a prestigious UG, it'll definitely hurt you. :P

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Eviix
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Re: How important is undergrad prestige?

Postby Eviix » Tue May 03, 2011 1:49 pm

soj wrote:If you're from a prestigious UG, it won't help you. If you're not from a prestigious UG, it'll definitely hurt you. :P

:shock: what's an easy prestigious school i can transfer to? :P
wouldn't a 4.0 at a low ranking school always look better than a say 3.7 at a prestigious school? I wonder what the comparison between universities and liberal arts colleges are? feeding wise, LACs seem to perform well and send a large percentage of students into top tier schools

I think a school with A+s like Rice would be good :o

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Knock
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Re: How important is undergrad prestige?

Postby Knock » Tue May 03, 2011 2:02 pm

Eviix wrote:
soj wrote:If you're from a prestigious UG, it won't help you. If you're not from a prestigious UG, it'll definitely hurt you. :P

:shock: what's an easy prestigious school i can transfer to? :P
wouldn't a 4.0 at a low ranking school always look better than a say 3.7 at a prestigious school? I wonder what the comparison between universities and liberal arts colleges are? feeding wise, LACs seem to perform well and send a large percentage of students into top tier schools

I think a school with A+s like Rice would be good :o


Yes, easily.

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Cade McNown
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Re: How important is undergrad prestige?

Postby Cade McNown » Tue May 03, 2011 2:15 pm

No undergraduate institution will hurt you. However in certain circumstances I think TLSers (who if nothing else prefer things in white & black) underestimate the GPA bump you get from a prestigious undergrad. A Boalt adcom told me "we consider a 3.7 GPA from X undergrad a 4.0", where X is not one of HYPS. Berkeley of course is more the exception than the rule, but I've heard this sentiment reiterated by others as well, most notably a USC faculty member.

Really though, it's just about your numbers as people here have stated.

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soj
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Re: How important is undergrad prestige?

Postby soj » Tue May 03, 2011 2:38 pm

Eviix wrote:
soj wrote:If you're from a prestigious UG, it won't help you. If you're not from a prestigious UG, it'll definitely hurt you. :P

:shock: what's an easy prestigious school i can transfer to? :P
wouldn't a 4.0 at a low ranking school always look better than a say 3.7 at a prestigious school? I wonder what the comparison between universities and liberal arts colleges are? feeding wise, LACs seem to perform well and send a large percentage of students into top tier schools

I think a school with A+s like Rice would be good :o

lol, sorry I was kidding. I was trying to make it seem bad regardless of your situation. You're right, a 4.0 > 3.7, even if the 3.7 >>>>> 4.0 in prestige. UG mostly doesn't matter.

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MrKappus
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Re: How important is undergrad prestige?

Postby MrKappus » Tue May 03, 2011 2:43 pm

Doesn't matter for law school admissions. Very definitely used as a tiebreaker at OCI. That's life. Those kids didn't expend 4 years of reasonably hard work and $200k for nothing.

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FantasticMrFox
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Re: How important is undergrad prestige?

Postby FantasticMrFox » Tue May 03, 2011 7:13 pm

MrKappus wrote:Doesn't matter for law school admissions. Very definitely used as a tiebreaker at OCI. That's life. Those kids didn't expend 4 years of reasonably hard work and $200k for nothing.

This makes sense to me: I mean if UG didn't matter at all in life, i'd be rather annoyed considering the price and the lack of financial aid.

But a higher GPA at a less prestigious institution might get into a better law school than a lower GPA at a more prestigious UG. Then, I don't think we can justifiably say that in the end, it all evens out because (unless I'm grossly mistaken) OCI will prefer the graduate of the better law school.

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MrKappus
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Re: How important is undergrad prestige?

Postby MrKappus » Tue May 03, 2011 7:20 pm

FantasticMrFox wrote:
MrKappus wrote:Doesn't matter for law school admissions. Very definitely used as a tiebreaker at OCI. That's life. Those kids didn't expend 4 years of reasonably hard work and $200k for nothing.

This makes sense to me: I mean if UG didn't matter at all in life, i'd be rather annoyed considering the price and the lack of financial aid.

But a higher GPA at a less prestigious institution might get into a better law school than a lower GPA at a more prestigious UG. Then, I don't think we can justifiably say that in the end, it all evens out because (unless I'm grossly mistaken) OCI will prefer the graduate of the better law school.


For sure (to bolded above). I just meant that when it comes down to two candidates from the same or similar top law school(s), UG seems to be a factor firms consider. In any event, ties between candidates are rare, given the multitude of variables firms might look at (WE, interviews, ties to area, etc.).

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blazinswordofjustice
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Re: How important is undergrad prestige?

Postby blazinswordofjustice » Tue May 03, 2011 7:31 pm

perfect example of why you are supposed to lurk around a while before posting...let alone posting a thread...

oh well...think about it like this OP, regardless of the undergraduate school, your GPA is factored into the law schools average with no regard to your ug school,

and because this affects law school rankings, for GPA calculation purposes a 3.9 at USC is better than a 3.0 at Harvard, etc.. etc...etc...

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dr123
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Re: How important is undergrad prestige?

Postby dr123 » Tue May 03, 2011 8:25 pm

No one has any evidence to show that a lower GPA from a highly ranked school is looked upon better than a that same GPA from a Random State U

A 3.5 from Harvard would likely have much better WE/Internships/etc.. than a 3.5 from Western Michigan University

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MrKappus
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Re: How important is undergrad prestige?

Postby MrKappus » Tue May 03, 2011 8:28 pm

dr123 wrote:No one has any evidence to show that a lower GPA from a highly ranked school is looked upon better than a that same GPA from a Random State U


This evidence probably does not exist. I can't see any reason why law schools would take a USNWR hit to their GPAs just to have some Ivy Leaguers in their classes.

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Patriot1208
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Re: How important is undergrad prestige?

Postby Patriot1208 » Tue May 03, 2011 9:10 pm

Lol SEC academics

whymeohgodno
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Re: How important is undergrad prestige?

Postby whymeohgodno » Tue May 03, 2011 9:13 pm

MrKappus wrote:
dr123 wrote:No one has any evidence to show that a lower GPA from a highly ranked school is looked upon better than a that same GPA from a Random State U


This evidence probably does not exist. I can't see any reason why law schools would take a USNWR hit to their GPAs just to have some Ivy Leaguers in their classes.


It exists for Harvard for Harvard undergrads.

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dr123
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Re: How important is undergrad prestige?

Postby dr123 » Tue May 03, 2011 9:18 pm

whymeohgodno wrote:
MrKappus wrote:
dr123 wrote:No one has any evidence to show that a lower GPA from a highly ranked school is looked upon better than a that same GPA from a Random State U


This evidence probably does not exist. I can't see any reason why law schools would take a USNWR hit to their GPAs just to have some Ivy Leaguers in their classes.


It exists for Harvard for Harvard undergrads.


Basis?

dr123 wrote:
A 3.5 from Harvard would likely have much better WE/Internships/etc.. than a 3.5 from Western Michigan University


correlation =/= causation

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acrossthelake
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Re: How important is undergrad prestige?

Postby acrossthelake » Tue May 03, 2011 9:28 pm

dr123 wrote:
Basis?



The grids, where the GPA floor is clearly lower. I don't have their grids in front of me anymore, but around 0.2-0.3 GPA points lower than the general consensus.

dr123 wrote:
A 3.5 from Harvard would likely have much better WE/Internships/etc.. than a 3.5 from Western Michigan University


correlation =/= causation [/quote]

If you believe this, then you must think that the gap in softs between the students count for 0.2-0.3 GPA points.

jokerman
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Re: How important is undergrad prestige?

Postby jokerman » Tue May 03, 2011 9:32 pm

Wonder what admissions would look like if the % of students from top 25/50/whatever USNWR UG schools was a significant factor in their ranking?

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dr123
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Re: How important is undergrad prestige?

Postby dr123 » Tue May 03, 2011 9:33 pm

acrossthelake wrote:
dr123 wrote:
Basis?



The grids, where the GPA floor is clearly lower. I don't have their grids in front of me anymore, but around 0.2-0.3 GPA points lower than the general consensus.

dr123 wrote:
A 3.5 from Harvard would likely have much better WE/Internships/etc.. than a 3.5 from Western Michigan University


correlation =/= causation


If you believe this, then you must think that the gap in softs between the students count for 0.2-0.3 GPA points.[/quote]

Maybe, I don't know. Depending on the soft, its possible. I just think y'all are jumping to conclusions, we have a very limited amount of information and the validity of the information is definitely questionable

dkt4
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Re: How important is undergrad prestige?

Postby dkt4 » Tue May 03, 2011 9:37 pm

a very, very high percentage of the time, people from good UGs have better softs than people from crappy schools.

a few schools may get a bump for prestige, the vast majority of schools people have ever heard of fall in the middle, and shitty schools probably get knocked for being shitty (if people know your school is shitty, it probably is)

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MrKappus
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Re: How important is undergrad prestige?

Postby MrKappus » Tue May 03, 2011 10:36 pm

acrossthelake wrote:If you believe this, then you must think that the gap in softs between the students count for 0.2-0.3 GPA points.


Not sure why this is unreasonable to assume. People who are concentrating on amazing softs may be more likely to get less-than-stellar GPAs.

Edit: people from a UG with a ~3.5 mean GPA (i.e., Harvard undergrads) are decidedly not more likely to have less-than-stellar GPAs.

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Veyron
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Re: How important is undergrad prestige?

Postby Veyron » Tue May 03, 2011 10:46 pm

dflanary33 wrote:I'm currently a sophomore at the University of South Carolina with a 3.65 GPA. Is there anyone else from an SEC school who didn't make perfect grades or score extremely high on the LSAT and still got into a top law school?

Furthermore, what is the general perception of the SEC in the law community as far as academic prestige and student quality is concerned? I am extremely interested to get some feedback on this matter.


EVERYONE needs either perfect grades or an extremely high LSAT score to get into a top law school. Better start studying!

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FantasticMrFox
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Re: How important is undergrad prestige?

Postby FantasticMrFox » Wed May 04, 2011 7:07 am

Veyron wrote:EVERYONE needs either perfect grades or an extremely high LSAT score to get into a top law school. Better start studying!




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